"Although...the government should recognize it has its own form of speech
that gets compromised..."Um...where did you read ANYWHERE that
the GOVERNMENT is allowed freedom of speech? Because the government does NOT
have that right. The majority of amendments, particularly the first ten, are
limitations on the rights of government and expansions of the rights of
individuals. The separation of church and state precisely means that particular
religions cannot be endorsed or enforced by an official governing body over
others.“The postal service can issue a stamp honoring Martin
Luther King Jr. without also honoring the Ku Klux Klan." That has nothing to
do with religion."Congress can celebrate Veterans Day without
also celebrating Pacifists Day." That has nothing to do with religion."And Wisconsin can recognize Christmas and Hanukkah without also
recognizing the Flying Spaghetti Monster,” according to the Becket
Fund." No they can't. Because that's endorsing which
religious beliefs are "appropriate" and which ones are not.The government is not 'compromising' its freedom of speech because
that compromise was made when the bill of rights was formed. The terms of that
compromise? Get your shrine off of state property.
If religion would get out of public forums, it wouldn't be appropriate for
secular people to leave mockeries of religion in public forums. As it is,
it's hilarious to me that there are people who were offended by this, as
though we, the people who take the separation of church and state were somehow
invading their turf. Religion has no place in a state capitol, and so long as it
does, mockeries of religion have a place in state capitols.
I'd further point out that many versions of the dysteleological objection
represent a sort of "naturalism-of-the-gaps" fallacy-- i.e., "we
can't figure out a reason why the Designer would have allowed this,
therefore, naturalism." If you want some good satire, here's a winner.
Dysteleology is in no way an insoluble problem for the Christian. In any event,
the issue here is theological (theodicy) and not scientific (dysfunctional
design does not rule out a designer).See William Lane Craig's
article, "Nature's Flaws and Cruelties."The FSM as a
parody misses the point it claims to address. Those who embrace the satire here
have not put forth a rigorous natural theology to establish their claim (instead
misrepresenting faith as fideism-- "I believe it's true, therefore it
is." Natural theology establishes a number of attributes of the Designer--
including that he is immaterial. This attribute alone rules out the FSM, as well
as almost all other deities concocted by humanity in history. Only a handful of
candidates remain (i.e., deism, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and perhaps others
like Sikhism).The FSM represents either gross ignorance of or an
undeserved disrespect for a philosophical and scientific discipline that is more
potent now than it has ever been at any other time in history.See
Craig's, "God and the Flying Spaghetti Monster."Tyler
D, many of your comments are even-handed, even if we don't ultimately see
eye-to-eye. Thanks for that.
@A Scientist --"Contrariuser preaches unto you an a-pastate
doctrine. He brings darkness and deception, and must be destroyed. By decree of
the FSM, followers of the one and only true and living FSM will hunt him down
and inflict harm on him and his posterity unto the last generation!His is a false pasta, a false sauce, having the form of noodliness, but
denying the true authority that came down from the Olive Garden of
Eatin'.There will be a food fight!"Ahem. The
true FSM does not "decree". He "suggests". Thus spake Our
Prophet Henderson.Besides, I come bearing dark chocolate-filled
cannelloni and deceptively light ricotta-stuffed tortellini. Surely we can reach
a pasta-ral accommodation? A meeting of the noodles?Although
I'm always up for a food fight. Tomatoes from the yardarms! Onions from the
You should at least go read the Random Number of Suggestions, or the alternately
stated "I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts". They are pretty great.
And the Loose Canon includes books with titles like:The
Book of MidgetsThe Book of FusilliThe Book of Fearsome Pirate
PeteThe Book of ProvHerbsThe Song of SemolinaThe PastalmsThe Book of JeffAnd many others.If you appreciate
Monty Python, they should give you a laugh.
ContrariuserHaha. I am getting a kick out of your spaghetti monster
parody... This is actually quite funny
To all readers,Contrariuser preaches unto you an a-pastate doctrine.
He brings darkness and deception, and must be destroyed. By decree of the FSM,
followers of the one and only true and living FSM will hunt him down and inflict
harm on him and his posterity unto the last generation!His is a
false pasta, a false sauce, having the form of noodliness, but denying the true
authority that came down from the Olive Garden of Eatin'.There
will be a food fight!
@Brahmabull --"If I eat spaghetti more then twice a week does
that make me a religious zealot or an anti- flying spaghetti monster?"As our Prophet Henderson has revealed, "the only dogma allowed in
the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the rejection of dogma". Therefore, eat as thou wilt.The only dietary restriction of
the Church of the FSM is enumerated in Suggestion #6 -- "6. Thou ought not
consume "cheese" from a green cardboard can, nor ought thou allow such
cans into thy homes "."Is the Flying spaghetti monster
gluten free?"All depastinations are welcomed, from amaranth to
quinoa to whole wheat.The Loose Canon, aka "A Really Important
Collection of Words" -- which includes the Random Number of Suggestions --
is available for free download. Just Google "Loose Canon".Ramen.
If I eat spaghetti more then twice a week does that make me a religious zealot
or an anti- flying spaghetti monster?If I eat linguine do I have to
repent?Is the Flying spaghetti monster gluten free?
had a wonderful service last night at the local pasta factory down here in st.
george. very inspiring!!
now scientist I dont agree with you in anyway shape or formbut I did get a
kick out of your comments
Contrariusest,On that we agree.
@Twin Lights --"Are you seriously arguing that the FSM is in any
way religiously important to you or to anyone?"Nah.The only serious point I'm trying to make here is that people
shouldn't take themselves too seriously. Humor is not the enemy of the
Good. I wouldn't want to believe in a God who didn't love to laugh.
Contrariusest,Are you seriously arguing that the FSM is in any way
religiously important to you or to anyone? It is a satire of religion, nothing
@Semi-Strong --"Mormons not specifically but Christians in
general when you put such a display next to a creche as if it had religious
meaning to anyone."Who are you to declare what does or does not
have religious meaning to someone? Why can't religion be humorous?
Contrariusest,Mormons not specifically but Christians in general
when you put such a display next to a creche as if it had religious meaning to
@Semi-Strong --"But when others make fun (typically in a much
more pointed way) it becomes something quite different."And how
exactly does the FSM damage the Mormon -- or even Christian -- communities in
Contrarius,ALL communities (faith and otherwise) make fun of
themselves. But when others make fun (typically in a much more pointed way) it
becomes something quite different.Surely we all recognize that?Next time someone takes a pointed shot at the homosexual community, I am
sure you will be fine with it.
Faith isn't complete without a dusting of shredded parmesan cheese.
So is eating spaghetti an equivalent to communion for the CoFSM or is it
sacrilege? (Perhaps sacrilicious).
Contrarius,So humor mocking the homosexual community is a good
I understand why traditionally religious folks get offended when they encounter
the profound truths of Pastafarianism: they like commands and control, but the
FSM is only smart enough for random.When the FSM placed the first
humans in the Olive Garden of Eatin' they were not given
"commandments" to obey. But as the FSM is wont to do, they were given
the "8 I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts", which I try to follow
faithfully when it suits me.I know that between the Earth and Mars
there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, and that
the FSM was boiled for my sins in that very hot teapot.As a faithful
Pastafarian Pirate, I celebrate Pasta-over each spring, and Ramen-dan in July or
June (or whenever I get the urge to bark at the moon). In remembrance that he
boiled for my sins, I fast every Friday then carb load while chanting "carbo
diem". I believe in the teachings and miracles of Elder Pastitsios, and I
place a symbolic meatball under my pillow in his honor.Come worship
@Semi-Strong --"How easy it is to mock."And fun,
too." Humor is experienced across all ages and cultures. In
positive psychology, humor is studied in a variety of functions, particularly as
a coping mechanism and as a character strength in the broaden-and-build theory.
An empirical definition of humor remains elusive due to its dependence on and
variance across cultures. However, humor is correlated with good self-efficacy
and resilience."Humor is a Good Thing.
@Semi-Strong – “How easy it is to mock.”I actually
got a good laugh out of both the article and the 1st two comments, but it
didn’t feel like mockery – more like satire.And while I
agree with the project of keeping our civic institutions secular – and
taking advantage of open displays is one way to achieve this – I am not in
favor of mocking people’s faith just for the fun of it (countering bad
reasoning or too much political power is an entirely different matter).Now if someone were to place a FSM next to a nativity scene on private/church
property, that would not only be mocking but incredibly tacky and the act of,
well… a jerk.
How easy it is to mock.
All hail the Great Spaghetti Monster and His Noodly Appendage!And
pass the spaghetti sauce!
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the FSM created the universe through his
unintelligent design. Look around at the world and you see proof of
"incompetent design".For example, ectopic pregnancies from
the bad design of a cavity between the ovary and the fallopian tube in the
female reproductive system.Dumb.Almost all animals and
plants synthesize their own vitamin C, but humans cannot because the gene for
this enzyme is defective.Not smart.FSM designed the
femur and pelvis in whales, "wisdom teeth" in humans, and gave moths
instinct to fly into a flame.And where there is unintelligent
design, there must be an unintelligent designer: the FSM!As a Pirate
myself, I always strive to stir the waters of belief in the hopes of converting
just a few more Pirates to His Noodly Goodness. RAmen and RAmen.