Comments about ‘About 700 marriage licenses issued in Utah since judge's ruling’

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1,500 rally to celebrate unexpected decision that led to gay weddings in Utah

Published: Monday, Dec. 23 2013 6:50 p.m. MST

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bc5
Missoula, MT

Homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic like race or sex. It is well explained in an Amicus Brief to the Supreme Court by Dr. Paul McHugh MD of John Hopkins University School of Medicine. He is an expert in the field of sexual identity. The brief can be found on the American Bar Associations web site, Supreme Court briefs. It was the United States v, Windsor case.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Billy Bob

Salt Lake City, UT

I would be willing to bet that over half of those marriages were knee jerk reactions to the ruling.

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And I am willing to bet that 3/4 of those couples have been together longer than you and your spouse were together before you were married...

Kathy.
Iowa, Iowa

Pagan,
The study you cite only included single parent, divorced and never married individuals.

Those divorced, single and never married parents produce 90% of children with mental illness, incarceration, runaways, and homeless children.
That does not even begin to talk about poverty, discipline and learning problems in school and how it affects our society. If you are talking about comparing being as good as the way that we produce that many disadvantaged children then yes it is the same as that.

It is disingenuous to cite a study that does not include heterosexual married couples in it and then say LGBT are the same as heterosexual married couples.

ebur
Charlotte, NC

Cuanto odio que hay en Utah. La religion los volvio ignorantes,hipocritas,negadores, delirantes, discriminadores, no pensantes, faltos de empatia, solidaridad.
Es increible lo que provoca en la gente creer en dios, y justificar el odio a traves de eso.
Lamentable , triste, decepcionante. Y si, obviamente , es el final de los tiempos. De los tiempos de los tiranos religiosos, y seguidores de dioses violentos, discriminadores, y llenos de pasiones humanas, que los convierten en cualquier cosa, menos en seres divinos.
How much hatred lives in Utah!!. Religion turned people ignorants, hypocriticals, deniers, delusionals, discriminators, non-thinkers, lacking empathy and solidarity.
It's amazing to see what believing in god causes on people, and how them justify hatred through that believe.
It is unfortunate, sad, disappointing.
And yes, obviously, this are the Last Days. The end of the times of religious tyrants, and followers of violent discriminatory gods, full of human passions that make them anything but divine beings.

verily_verily
Beautiful, NV

The morning light from Utah was biblical.

Thank you Judge Shelby, you have made this a Christmas of hope, understanding and compassion.

You are Santa to thousands of proud, and now legally married Utah families.

Bless you!

Contrariusester
mid-state, TN

@Billy Bob --

" ...why did they not rush to California (or another state) to get married there"

Because, of course, their California marriage would not have been recognized in Utah -- because Utah kept insisting on ignoring the Full Faith and Credit clause of the US Constitution.

Try LOOKING at the pics and video from the clerk's offices. Older people, people with kids -- these people are obviously committed to each other. And now the state will official recognize their commitment.

@Kathy --

"The study you cite only included single parent, divorced and never married individuals."

Pagan has cited a lot of studies. Which one are you talking about?

"It is disingenuous to cite a study that does not include heterosexual married couples"

Disingenuous? You mean like Mark Regnerus -- who compared single lesbian mothers to married straight couples and then claimed that kids do worse in gay-led homes? You mean like Doug Allen -- who compared unmarried gay households to married straight households, and then claimed longterm deleterious effects of gay-led homes -- even though his data was gathered when gay marriage had been legal for less than a year? You mean disingenuous like that??

HappyHeathen
Puyallu, Wa.

Congrats Utah! Because “ALL” families are important!

Ranch
Here, UT

@Billy Bob;

I've been with my partner for over 15 years. Why should we have to go to another state to receive the same benefits that my siblings receive here for the cost of a marriage license?

As for "knee jerk" and possible failed marriages; three of my siblings have gone through a divorce and are now on their second marriages. Another sibling is in the process of separation and is heading for divorce.

In the 15 years that my partner and I have been together, this is the first time; the. first. time. we've actually been able to go down and say "I do".

SoCalChris
Riverside, CA

Contrariusiest,

You're not going to get an argument from me that there are plenty of judges who adhere to the same politically correct dogma you do. But that doesn't mean it was written in the Constitution. Please have the honesty to admit that the framers and ratifiers of the 14th Amendment had no intent that the Due Process Clause and Equal Protection Clause provide for SSM.

Those photographers, bakers, florists, etc had no issue about whether or not someone was gay. They had gay clientele. They did not want to participate in a same sex wedding ceremony. Big difference. To my knowledge, no gay photographer has ever been forced to photograph an LDS wedding.

And no, I don't believe religious arguments are necessary or proper in opposing SSM. Personally, I don't want my school kids taught about homosexuality at a young age. There will be no way to avoid that with SSM. The Constitution does not require a public, legal statement that homosexuality is every bit as normal and healthy as heterosexuality. That's the statement SSM makes. It's perfectly rational to oppose SSM without invoking religion. Btw, I strongly favor civil unions.

caaron
Draper, UT

Same-Sex Couple Benefits?

Spousal survivor/retirement benefit
Lump-sum death benefit- surviving spouse gets $255 from government:pay funeral arrangements
Tax Benefits
Joint returns- unmarried couples lose $1,000s/year filing separately
Creating "family partnership- couples divide business income among family members=tax savings

Estate Tax-Estate Planning Benefits-available to married couples

Estate/gift tax exemption- surviving spouse no taxes on$ received from deceased spouse under exemption limit ($5 million)

Estate Tax "Portability"- Married combine personal estate tax exemptions. Second spouse dying can leave property (up to $10 million) free from federal estate tax. Unmarried couples only $5 million tax-free

Life estate trusts- Married couples can create life estate trusts: provide tax advantages with spouse's death: Surviving spouse-trust property tax-free. Non citizen surviving spouse can postpone paying estate taxes above exemption amount.

Veteran-Military Benefits: Spouses of deceased veterans-numerous benefits:health care, death pensions, educational assistance, home loan guarantees, vocational training, bereavement counseling.

Living military personnel spouses: health care, family separation pay, relocation assistance.

Federal Employment Benefits- denied unmarried employees. Examples-health insurance; wages, worker's compensation, health insurance, retirement plan benefits for surviving spouse.

Immigration Benefits- Non citizen obtains legal residency, later citizenship, when married to citizen.

Kaotic
USA, UT

I live in Utah and the reactions and comments I have seen on FB and elsewhere leaves me a little bit surprised. Most of the comments about gay marriage have been favorable and some people don't even really care about the issue. Utah is becoming less and less conservative on different issues, especially in the bigger cities like Salt Lake and St. George. Very interesting...

Contrariusester
mid-state, TN

@SoCalChris --

"...there are plenty of judges who adhere to the same politically correct dogma you do. "

By "politically correct dogma" you must actually mean "the US Constitution".

Supreme Court decisions have upheld marriage as a basic civil right in many decisions spanning more than 100 years, obviously involving many different panels of justices.

"the framers and ratifiers of the 14th Amendment had no intent that the Due Process Clause and Equal Protection Clause provide for SSM."

I doubt those framers and ratifiers intended to give women the right to vote, either.

"They did not want to participate in a same sex wedding ceremony. Big difference."

Baking a cake is no more participating in sin than cooking lunch for black kids is.

If you don't want to uphold the laws of your jurisdiction, then don't get a business license. It's simple.

"To my knowledge, no gay photographer has ever been forced to photograph an LDS wedding."

Of course not. Those gay photographers wouldn't have to be forced.

@Ranch --

"...this is the first time; the. first. time. we've actually been able to go down and say "I do"."

Didja, didja?? I'm ready to throw confetti!

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Billy Bob
"I would be willing to bet that over half of those marriages were knee jerk reactions to the ruling."

A lot of them have been wanting to marry for years but couldn't. The rush is because they know this could be appealed or put in a stay so their time to get married might be limited.

And besides, if a lot of them fail like you think, who cares? Half of man-woman marriages end in divorce.

"A lot of those marriages surely are knee jerk reactions, "hey current partner, lets go get married just because an arrogant liberal judge unconstitutionally said we could" "

People get married for lots of reasons, none of which are "let's spite Billy Bob".

Kaotic
USA, UT

It would be in the best interest of Utah officials not to waste tax payer money with regards to overturning this ruling. It's a fight they can't win and would be a big waste of taxpayer money...

gmlewis
Houston, TX

The Dictionary definition of a husband is "The male partner in a marriage." Somehow, that just doesn't describe my relationship with my wife for the last 40 years. I've been a protector who worshipped her always.

Since we can now have two husbands married to each other, I really feel a need to invent a new word to describe the old relationship, but I can't come up with anything that comes close. Any suggestions?

SoCalChris
Riverside, CA

Contrariusester,

You've made my point. Women's right to vote was dealt with in the 19th Amendment.

Really???
Kearns, UT

"I would be willing to bet that over half of those marriages were knee jerk reactions to the ruling."

Of the three couples I know who have gotten married, one has been together for four years, one for eight years, and the third for fifteen years. I can't speak for the rest because I don't know them. These three couples did not have knee-jerk reactions, but they chose to wait until they could legally get married in their home state.

Darmando
Parker, CO

Civil law is civil. Religious doctrines and laws are religious. Marriage is a civil right. Religions don't have to participate in civil contracts they don't approve. Religious doctrine can't be allowed to trump civil rights. There is no excuse for denying people civil rights - PERIOD.

jeru0455
SALEM, OR

Look, SSM opponents lost and rightfully so. Now, comes the bigger step of being the bigger person and admitting that at least on this issue, you were completely, totally, 100% wrong.

Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

Even if a majority of citizens favor something that is immoral and sinful in the eyes of God, making it legal doesn't make it right. It also doesn't make a sin right if a majority of people tolerate it, it just mocks Almighty God! Think there are any signs in the world that he is displeased with the behavior of his children?

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