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Comments about ‘About 700 marriage licenses issued in Utah since judge's ruling’

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1,500 rally to celebrate unexpected decision that led to gay weddings in Utah

Published: Monday, Dec. 23 2013 6:50 p.m. MST

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Contrariuserer
mid-state, TN

@ExiledSonofUtah --

" One thing I want is a police car with lights and siren..."

Of course fraudulent police cars cause harm. That's pretty obvious. So would having tanks running down the street, printing fake money, and so on.

In contrast, every attorney in every gay-marriage-related court case has tried desperately to prove harm from gay marriage. They have all failed spectacularly. Gee, I wonder why.

@grj --

"A boy can't "marry" a boy, and a girl can't "marry" a girl. "

700 marriage licenses right there in Utah say you're wrong.

@bc5 --

"The Gay Rights movement tries to make gay marriage a civil rights issue like interracial marriage... "

That's because it IS one.

"A person cannot choose his race, it is genetic. "

Even the LDS church admits that one does not choose to be gay.

"f it is unconstitutional to discriminate against the chosen gay lifestyle then it must be unconstitutional to discriminate against polygamy among consenting adults"

No.

All individual rights are limited by harm.

Polygamy, incest, etc. all convey a significantly increased risk of harm compared to other forms of marriage.

Gay marriage does not.

It's a very simple distinction.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'If it is not genetic then it is a lifestyle choice.'

I will concede there is no gay gene.

However, if you think it is a 'choice', then I suggest you look again…

*'Psychologists nix gay-to-straight therapy' - AP - 08/05/09

'The American Psychological Association slams technique that seeks to change sexual orientation.

No solid evidence exists that such change is likely, says the report, and some research suggests that efforts to produce change could be harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.'

From our own Deseret news…

* Gay man says 'reversal' therapy did not change him' - By Lisa Leff - Associated Press - Published by DSNews - 01/20/10

'SAN FRANCISCO — A gay man testified Wednesday in a federal same-sex marriage trial that the "reversal therapy" he underwent as a teenager to change his sexual orientation drove him to the brink of suicide.'

'Homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder. All of the major medical organizations, including The American Psychiatric Association, The American Psychological Association, and the American Academy of Pediatrics agree that homosexuality is not an illness or disorder, but a form of sexual expression.'

- Published online: 11/2008
- Source: Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Teens: Information for Teens and Parents
- America Academy of Pediatrics

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

I have been with my partner for 15 years. Looking back, I would never change it! It has been wonderful to share my life with him. He has been with me during some of the hardest times in my life. Every year I find that I care about him more and more! Where would I be if I accepted what some people believe about me? I would have missed all those wonderful years with him and his family and my family and all our friends!!! I love my family. I love the Church and I do my best not to offend, but I will not be ashamed of who I am nor will I be ashamed of my partner and all those wonderful years we have had. I will even say that I believe, with all my heart that God is 100% ok with who I chose to be with and He is happy about what has happened! Tell me that I don't have a Constitutional right to liver my life in a way that makes me happy! I am 50 years old! Don't treat me like I am some idiot! Try giving the respect you so demand for yourselves!

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

JPLofMI: "Thus we need a man/woman form, the only form that can create children."

Had you been at the City-County Building yesterday, you would have been amazed at the number of children there to attend their parents' wedding. Gays DO have children (about one in every three or four gay households has children). The advantages to children's welfare from having married parents are well documented. Do you really want to be on the side of denying them those benefits? How does that improve child outcomes?

bc5: "...a civil rights issue like interracial marriage... A person cannot choose his race, it is genetic."

Please show me the Methodist or Muslim or Mormon gene or acknowledge that by your logic religion does not deserve civil rights protections either (and yet religious freedom is a dominant theme in this paper). One's sexual orientation may or may not be purely genetic or choice (I'm inclined to believe it is a complex combination of both), but it is a deep, fundamental aspect of a person's identity on a par with religion.

Sneaky Jimmy
Bay Area, CA

This is the best Christmas present for Utah. Now all Utah citizens can live in matrimonial bliss if they so desire. I notice that many of the comments involve quoting the bible. I would ask that you look into your own hearts and see what is truly in the best interest of these people getting married. How can you so easily condemn those whose only crime is being different than you? Do you see the parallels to the forced integration of southern schools in the 50's and 60's? Think honestly and think for yourself.

SoCalChris
Riverside, CA

"We do not live in a theocracy, so claiming the law is against a "sin" is not a legally valid reason."

" The United States is not a theocracy. The government isn't here to protect your personal Bronze Age religious beliefs from 21st Century realities."

We don't live in a theocracy of political correctness either. The right to marry someone of your own gender does not magically appear in the Constitution 150 years after an amendment was ratified because a politically correct judge says so.

A secular rather than religious authority has handed down a pronouncement like a papal bull. The PC crowd are the ones who are fine with policy being changed by someone who is simply more enlightened than the voters of Utah.

There has never been a threat of a Christian theocracy in this country. There is a real threat of secular rule of judges, even to the point of putting people in jail for heresy. Please. No more talk of a Christian theocracy.

riverofsun
St.George, Utah

As we try to grasp the wonderful Christmas spirit and help those who have had difficulties in their lives...
Sadly, there appears to be many urgent needs in "traditional" heterosexual relationships and families. The father and/or the mother has abandoned their children, the parents and/or children have suffered because of substance abuse, parents have lost their employment.
Rather than hammer the newly married gay couples, lets all work together and try to fill the urgent needs of these families here in Utah, America, and around our planet.
Everyone deserves assistance and love, particularly during this Christmas season.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

To all the naysayers. If you really wanted to ban gay marriage you needed to write a bill that didn't single out a group. That is why the law was overturned, because the law was poorly written.
Now why would someone write a poorly written law? Lots of reasons.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:KJB1
??????
Howard W. Hunter and his first wife had 3 sons (one died in infancy). His first wife died in 1983 and he remarried in 1990 at the ripe old age of 83.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'The right to marry someone of your own gender does not magically appear in the Constitution 150 years after an amendment was ratified because a politically correct judge says so.'

That's cute.

A judge.

So, once again we are ignoring the 1) Judge who struck down Prop 8, 2) The 2nd judge who ruled in favor of striking down Prop 8. 3) The 10th circuit who struck down Prop 8 and 4) The supreme court that also ruled against Prop 8?

Are we also ignoring DOMA?

No, I think history proves there have been MANY judges who support that tax-paying LGBT Americans are factually discriminated against. Denied the 1,100+ legal rights and protections our straight friends enjoy.

Give me an example of someone arrested by a 'liberal judge' for heresy.

Please.

No, I think you are confusing the inquisition, with constitutional law. Common mistake.

So, America is not a 'christian theocracy'? Ok…

prove it.

Allow LGBT Americans, who pay taxes and bleed and die in wars, the same rights afforded to you.

America is a place to INCLUDE many religions. Even the ones that disagree with one another. Side by side.

Because how long until you, are not living according to someone else's religion….?

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Anyone who was at the County Complex (as I was yesterday morning) would have experienced, not "chaos," but extraordinary jubilation and community. There was a lovely Latina with her son and daughter (they looked to be about 8 and 6), her face beaming, focused on her sweetie during her vows, barely able to contain her joy, her face quivering trying restrain the tears. There was the silver-haired couple who obviously had been together for decades, in firm embrace after their "I do"s. There were young mothers with babes in arms and dads with sons in matching ties. Not that there was a competition, but the award for most heart-meltingly cute couple goes to Jax and Heather Collins (I feel authorized to mention their names because they are identified in the DesNews photo gallery accompanying this story). Heather totally rocked the dress. Take your regular wedding, multiply it by 200, and mix in a healthy dollop of liberation and a dash of sleep deprivation. That was the County Complex yesterday. Sheer exuberance. Anyone who could not be moved by that-- from the individual celebrations to the collective atmosphere of joy-- has a heart two sizes too small.

carman
Wasatch Front, UT

There should not be discrimination in housing, employment, taxes, or in any other way, regardless of religious orientation, sexual preference, race, etc. But the term marriage should not be destroyed by a small minority who want something that looks in many ways similar but is in reality very different. Call it "domestic union", or anything else, but gay partnerships are not "marriage". The rest of the community deserves a word that describes the traditional foundation of family. There are good reasons for preserving the word marriage. It is the ideal for most who are born on this planet.

KJB1
Eugene, OR

Truthseeker:

I should have written "he and his NEW wife", I suppose.

SoCalChris
Riverside, CA

Pagan, it's not so cute for the photographer in New Mexico or the baker in Colorado, who have no problem serving gay customers, but choose not to participate in same sex weddings. Yes, they have been accused of crimes and their livelihoods have been threatened for being "heretics."

It's ironic that liberals continue to badmouth Christianity. Judeo-Christian values are what gave us our Constitution, Bill of Rights and 13th and 14th Amendments.

Gay people are protected in their right to live the life they choose and are entitled to civility and fair treatment. But sorry, there is nothing in the Constitution that requires the recognition of same sex marriage.

SEC Rules
Seminole, FL

I'm so confused...!

djk
blue springs, MO

hold on people it is going to be a rough ride. satan is winning the minds of the utah judges now like many other judges

Million
Bluffdale, UT

Funny how people are bound to stew,
If you don't fit in their point of view,
Brim full of advice what you should do.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

"You know, I was married for 23 years to the love of my life and he died 6 years ago. I think of all the wonderful years we had and the wonderful fringe benefits of having 3 beautiful children....

And someone made the comment that this is not about equality. Well yes it is about equality. And why in the world would be not allow those equal rights for individuals who truly committed to one another in life to be able to – to show that in the way of a marriage.

My daughter came out of the closet a couple of years ago and you know what I thought I was going to agonize about that. Nothing’s different. She’s still a fabulous human being and she’s met someone she loves very much. And some day, by God, I want to throw a wedding for that kid. And I hope that’s what I can do. I hope she will not feel like a second-class citizen involved in something called a deomestic partnership which frankly sounds like a Mary Maids franchise to me."
(WA State Rep. Republican Maureen Walsh)

Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

@SoCalChris --

" it's not so cute for the photographer in New Mexico or the baker in Colorado... "

When anyone takes out a business license they agree to abide by the laws of their jurisdiction. They have no more right to refuse services to gay people than the Walgreens lunch-counter owner had to refuse services to black college kids.

"It's ironic that liberals continue to badmouth Christianity. Judeo-Christian values are what gave us our Constitution, Bill of Rights and 13th and 14th Amendments. "

It's ironic that a few Christian conservatives continue to pretend that this is an issue of Christians vs. gays. In reality, many Christian denominations are already happy to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies, and many gays are devout Christians.

"But sorry, there is nothing in the Constitution that requires the recognition of same sex marriage."

Marriage has been recognized as a basic civil right for more than 100 years. And the Equal Protection Clause guarantees equal rights for all. Sorry, the Constitution and every court to which the issue has been brought disagree with your claim.

Billy Bob
Salt Lake City, UT

I would be willing to bet that over half of those marriages were knee jerk reactions to the ruling. A lot of them will result in failed marriages. If they really were that ready to get married that they rush to the court house, why did they not rush to California (or another state) to get married there before it was unconstitutionally deemed legal by a single judge in Utah? A lot of those marriages surely are knee jerk reactions, "hey current partner, lets go get married just because an arrogant liberal judge unconstitutionally said we could" is a paraphrase of what they said to each other, with a few bits of honesty thrown in that they surely didn't say, but should have.

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