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Governor, state attorneys say decision leaves Utah in 'chaos'

Published: Monday, Dec. 23 2013 11:20 a.m. MST

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mid-state, TN

@USNGary and San Diego

"Sodom and Gomorrah....enough said"

Sodom was about arrogance, not homosexuality.

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me." (Ezekiel 16:49-50)

@2 bits --

"I don't see how you can make the Equal Protection case for Gay marriages... and deny equal protection to polygamous people"

It's very simple.

All individual rights are limited by harm.

Polygamy, incest, etc. all convey a significantly increased risk of harm compared to other forms of marriage.

Gay marriage does not.

It's a simple distinction.

Look up the harm principle.

@Wilson --

"So where do we draw the line"

We draw the line at harm, of course.

"years ago nobody would be able to fathom the acceptance of homosexuality."

Years ago nobody would be able to fathom allowing women to vote.

"what happens when and if they start demanding rights to marry the kids they coerce into relationships?"

The law will point out that they are doing harm, of course.

Salt Lake City, UT


Sodomy and homosexual sex within this so-called "same sex marriage" is not the same as "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.". We LDS certainly are comfortable with all men having the same privilege to WORSHIP...... but not to sodomize!

The courts and judges can rule that same sex marriage is legal all they want, but in the laws of heaven and within the eternal moral code revealed in the Holy Bible, same sex marriage, sodomy and the like are outside of God's laws and considered as sinful behavior in his eyes. Killing babies via abortion is legal in America's corrupt legal system, but it is not moral or acceptable in the eyes of God (unless the health of the mother is threatned or secodnary to rape). The problem is that when corrupt courts and judges make such behavior legal, it is harder for some to determine right from wrong.

Mission Viejo, CA

San Diego - "Sodom and Gomorrah all over again."

Agreed, the pious are being very inhospitable to their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

Ft Thomas, KY

If you ever wondered what it would have been like to live in Sodom and Gomorrah you don't have to wonder anymore.

Bob K
porland, OR

Cedar Hills, UT
Sure glad I live in south Utah County. With BYU and a VERY conservative population it provides a buffer from Salt Lake Valley which is going to deteriorate significantly with this ruling. Wouldn't want to raise my kids in any public school in Salt Lake Valley going forward. Expect an explosion of gay teachers and other collateral damage.

.... I am tempted to correct that to "Wouldn't want my grandchildren to..." Even in the 1950's, a large percentage of the best teachers were Gay. Perhaps it was because they could not have families, and had the time to devote to others's kids.

West Valley, UT
I am fine with the allowance for gay marriage in Utah. But I am very disappointed that a judge can reverse a popular vote by the people.

....Slavery and segregation were reversed "against the will of the people". In California, voters were tricked by outsiders (you know who) into passing Prop 8, which was behind in all polls early on.
... If there were no judges upholding the Constitution and balancing mistakes by voters, we would be in trouble

Cedar Hills, UT


Have you ever watched the classic James Stewart movie "It's A Wonderful Life"? Recall "Pottersville"? If this gay marriage constitutional travesty is allowed to stand then expect Salt Lake to look alot like the little brother of San Francisco in 20 years. I don't see this ridiculous ruling standing however so not to worry. First of all this activist judges ruling is NOT constitutional and will be overturned...I would guess within weeks not months. Second, the LDS church will not stand for this abomination to fall upon the families and children of Utah. Utah is still a vast majority of LDS - especially Utah "Happy" Valley. Before your pants start on fire from my comments - remember I am NOT anti-gay. I AM anti-gay-marriage and for the sole reason to protect children and the family unit. I have a friend I grew up with who is gay and a member of the LDS church and he understands and accepts the churches position. So - join with me and let's keep Salt Lake "Bailey Park" instead of deteriorating into "Pottersville".

Saint George, UT

Contrarius: Your answer is comical! Your distinction between gay marriage and polygamy is comical. I doubt Deseret News will even print this innocuous personal opinion because they are part of the media that finds it more convenient to defend your point of view,no matter how offensive it is to families, God, and me, than allow anyone to respond to you without hurting your feelings.

Bob K
porland, OR

It is time for lds people to look to the prophet, and for the prophet to look to God.
In fact, the issue is somewhat overdue for a revelation.
It is going to take a lot of prayer, in my view, for men born 75-90 years ago to see the modern world, but God can show them the way.

Not ONE of the comments I have read here and on other threads about this ruling mentions that thousands and thousands of Gay kids are born to mormons (larger families mean more Gay kids).

Should you not be concerned about your own kids, not the people who are down at the Courthouse, enjoying their new freedom?
The present church policy has moved from "indoctrinate them or shun them" to "love them and treat them well, but they are, in effect, cripples, until they give in and marry heterosexually"

Encouraging your children to be who God made them, not to be people it is easier for you to understand, seems to me to be exactly what Jesus would ask of you.

Alexandria, VA

There are two things that strike me here the first are the number of same sex couples that want to get married and I am really OK with that. The thing I am not OK with is those "religious" people who are so caught up in the doctrines of their faiths that they forget that same sex couples are real people. Same sex couples may be your sons and daughters, your brothers and sisters and so on. Is it not important to show charity to them? They have lived a life of being second class for so long and now they have a chance to be the person the Lord created them to be. Is that not a reason to be happy for them?

Spagetti Monster
Salt Lake City, UT

Spydee, you wrote, "What I think is sad is that twice now, once in California and now in Utah, the citizens have passed a constitutional ammendment and a single judge can overturn it."

You are leaving out the Supreme Court ruling striking down DOMA as unconstitutional. No one has been able to offer a convincing argument demonstrating that gay marriage would cause harm to others. It boils down to a religious belief that family must be limited only to those who join for a union in which they are more likely to have children of their own. Doesn't this beg the question: What's the government business regarding those who either can no longer reproduce; those who can't produce; and those who wish to marry and not have children. It's a religious belief, and it lacks evidence. In fact, the evidence so far points the other direction, meaning that children are well adapted and healthy like a lot of other children. Furthermore, as more and more people have stopped hiding their same sex relationships, more and more people learned that homosexuality is not a moral issue.

Logan, UT

Thinks I think. If the LDS church allowed gay marriage to ever happen in the temples of God, then the LDS church is now a false church. Why do you think we came out with The Family, A Proclamation to the world. Because we new this was going to happen.

Salt Lake City, UT

"We LDS certainly are comfortable with all men having the same privilege to WORSHIP...... but not to sodomize! "

The issue at stake here is same-sex marriages, not same-sex sex...

"If you ever wondered what it would have been like to live in Sodom and Gomorrah you don't have to wonder anymore."

That's been true for a long time, much like Sodom and Gomorrah this place is full of salt.

"Sure glad I live in south Utah County. With BYU and a VERY conservative population it provides a buffer from Salt Lake Valley which is going to deteriorate significantly with this ruling. "

It's like a racist in a very white part of Idaho... and no, nothing's going to deteriorate. On the contrary, things will improve. I've been told that marriage strengthens relationships and bonds and improves situations for kids. This'll be fantastic for same-sex couples and their families.

Cedar Hills, UT

re:Bob K

A large percentage of teachers in the 1950's were gay?? Where exactly? I would dare say not even in San Francisco. Dream on. Children are best taught and nurtured by a mother and father - that is why God created and ordained the family unit as a Father, Mother with children and with NO exceptions. Man perverted the laws of God with gay marriage and the consequences will be dire. As Americans we have the right to fight for the kind of society we want for our children and grandchildren...unless of course you attempt to quote scripture and then you get fired by the God-less left!!

mid-state, TN

@antodav --

" The court is run by men and its opinions and rulings change and contradict each other all the time. "

The Supreme Court has affirmed and reaffirmed that marriage is a basic civil right in more than 10 decisions spanning more than 100 years -- which obviously has involved many different panels of justices.

@calcu_lus --

"Gay marriage is not the enlarging an institution, it is the destruction of an honored institution. "

Please explain how gay marriage destroys anything. Be specific.

Attorneys in multiple court cases -- even arguing before the Supreme Court itself -- have completely failed to prove any harm from gay marriage. What makes you think you know better than all those attorneys??

Bountiful, UT

As an active LDS member, I am totally opposed to this hateful things I'm hearing about gays. As christians we should know better on how to treat others.

Having said that, I am a traditional marriage supporter, but I also believe there must be a way to give gay couples all the civil rights they need.

Always Two Steps Ahead
Vancouver, WA

No one ever correctly said same sax marriage was a good thing for anyone gay or lesbian. I'm all for gay rights but let's remember that same marriage is a curse, not a blessing. We, as communities, states and nations all benefit from marriage between one man and one woman, especially the LGBT community.

The practical, social, religious and legal advantages of permitting same sex marriage are too few to outweigh the costs. Let's not trade our birthright for a mess of pottage here. Too many LBGTs across the US have had their right to enjoy the benefits of living in a state that values traditional marriage taken away. Let's not add to problem.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you're told.
Religion is doing what you're told, no matter what is right.

The comments above seem to fall into those 2 categories.

Unfortunately using "God told me" as a defense has never been a good defense in a court of law.
(Even when you have a hand written letter from God like the Lafferty Bros.)

On the other hand you have folks who want their love and families to be recognized as such, and use intelligent well thought out arguments and the very Constitution which so many of the religious right claim to be inspired.

Glad to see we're doing the Right thing.

Quit concentrating on sex so much, it makes up such an infinitesimally small percentage of the time you spend with your spouse that it should hardly be the focal point of the argument.

sid 6.7
Holladay, UT


What makes this Judge Self Serving? He is a Heterosexual married man and I doubt he had much skin in the "homosexual" game. He did what he was supposed to do and ruled in favor of ALL man based on the premise of the Constitution. Bias is a week argument any way. It can't be proven and both sides of this debate can use it to further their argument. Are you not biased in your thought process regarding this subject?

I was not around but I have herd from relatives who have told me there was this kind of backlash in the Utah when Blacks were given the same freedom the whites had. This was the beginning of the end some proclaimed. I wonder what happened? Even the LDS church came around in the early 80's and modified the BOM so Blacks had the same rights as their White brethren. The church our community and the world is better for it.

We live in the greatest country in the world where we are free to continue in this heated debate and where all Men are created equal.

Bottom line, you can't vote away peoples rights. Period!

Always Two Steps Ahead
Vancouver, WA

All of these comments remind me of a quotation "they have joy in their works for a season, but by and by the end cometh . . . " Don't remember who said it, though.

Provo, UT

1 judge > the will of Utahns. That is the only way something like this would ever pass. I'll bet he is real proud of himself.

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