Comments about ‘Court ruling has created 'chaotic situation,' Utah Gov. Gary Herbert says’

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Published: Saturday, Dec. 21 2013 6:25 p.m. MST

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Alfred
Phoenix, AZ

@Ricardo Carvalho: "If gay marriage is contrary to God's will, I am confident that He will deal with it in His own way in the hereafter."

He's already dealt with it... in His Holy Bible: 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.' Leviticus 18:22

@Bob K:
"... there is no legal or moral justification to continue to put a group of tax paying citizens out in the cold to please churches."

I think you're onto something... What you seem to be saying is, there's no justification to deny any types of marriage arrangements including polygamy, incestuous types, pedophilia types, etc... You name it.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ New to Utah

Back in the 60's the majority of people in Mississippi supported segregation. Should that have stood too?

The Constitution trumps the electorate every time.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

Why does everybody care so much if gay marriage is legal? If you don't believe in gay marriage, don't get gay married. It's that simple. Stop worrying about things that have no affect on you whatsoever.

BroJoseph
Ogden, UT

Let us not forget those who have raised their voices for the Constitution. Those who proclaimed the standard of the Constitution, but failed to comprehend the day that the Constitution would one day become their own demise. All the talk of retaining the Constitution that would hang by a thread. The reality is that the Constitution has been and continues to be interpreted by the prevailing judicial process without regard to Christian value. Those who have promoted Constitutional value as inspired, did not understand that it applied to its conception and not what we have today. The Constitution of today legalizes abortions, denies prayer in school, allows citizens to arm themselves and enmasse munitions because of fear of their fellowman and now recognizing marriage as outside the law as the Creator subscribed. We have heard from pulpits and rallies "the Constitution"the Constitution", without the vision and forsight that laws regulated by undiciplined men who Amend the Constitution would become their nemesis. In the past it was "Communism" and Socialism as America, s enemy's, when the real enemy is its own political, religious and secular leaders and the lack of vision by its people.

The Last Word
South Jordan, UT

Long live Traditional Marriage! So tragic to see our society become desensitized at an alarming pace over the past couple decades regarding gay marriage. Our worlds become very good at justifying sin by claiming gay marriage to be a fundamental right. What will it be next? The strength of our society is collapsing before our eyes.

Contrariuserer
mid-state, TN

@wrz --

"There's where you're going wrong."

Nope.

The concept of harm is inherent throughout the Constitution and our legal system. I'm sorry that you refuse to see it, but it's there nonetheless.

And every judge of every court in this land understands it, despite your failure to do so.

"How can you be sure? "

Every lawyer who has brought gay marriage cases before US courts has tried desperately to prove harm. They have all failed -- and that's why their cases have failed in court.

"there is 'harm' in some heterosexual marriages. ..."

Again -- it's about increased risk of harm compared to other forms of marriage -- just as the legality of drunk driving is based on the fact that it's *more* dangerous than sober driving.

"harm....is not from the marriage but probably from religious or other teachings."

From Justice Bauman, reaffirming Canada's polygamy ban: ""Polygamy's harm to society includes the critical fact that a great many of its individual harms are not specific to any particular religious, cultural or regional context. They can be generalized and expected to occur wherever polygamy exists."

And notice, there's that word "harm" again.

Baron Scarpia
Logan, UT

So sad that the governor is racing to take away the rights of a few hundred Utahns seeking to marry rather than deal with the millions in Utah facing the worst air quality in the nation and its health affects on tens of thousands of Utahns, including children and the unborn. Where are his priorities?

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

Most of us would not be here if we didn't care about members of the LDS Church.We would have left! We stay because of the people we love, despite the fact that so many people oppose us! Every day I work with Mormons and they know who I am! They helped me through some of the hardest times in my life and without words, I felt their support. It was so strong that I actually went around and thanked them. How do we make people see that we are only doing what we feel is right for us? We haven't demanded that anyone change their beliefs! Nobody can do that! I don't even try. We have to stand up for ourselves! I can't help it if someone believes that I am abomination! I will stand up and say "NO". I will not accept that definition of me! Some of take it upon yourselves to judge not only us, but other members for supporting us! A lot of pain is caused by doing that! I try not to do it. I do love the Church. People asume so much!

Bob A. Bohey
Marlborough, MA

Chaos usually follows when peoples bigotry has been turned on it's head. See Alabama in the 1960's for an example.Same sex marriage will be allowed in the entire country. It is only a matter of time. In the interim, those who value freedom and equality for all must remain vigilant. The reason is that the domestic enemies of this great nation are not dead yet, they are like a wounded animal. Stay vigilant until the last breath of bigotry has been exhaled.

Esquire
Springville, UT

The only real chaos is that opponents don't want the judge's decision to be implemented. Until a higher court overrules the decision, it is the law. You do believe in upholding the law, don't you, Governor?

Orem Social Worker
Orem, UT

Utah is not a theocracy! There is a clear line of separation in the Constitution of Church and State. A marriage license, has always been, since its inception in the early 1900's, a legal contract (mostly having to do with property ownership and transfer)between a couple and the State of issuance. Nowhere in the United States is it mandatory to have a religious ceremony in order to legitimize or legalize a marriage. Likewise, there is no legal standing for anyone to sue a Church over their decision to not marry anyone in particular, be they same sex or different religions or races. The Constitution protects both the secular and non-secular. This has nothing to do with the LDS Church or any other Church. It is a state issue and the sooner our government remembers they are not a ruling Theocracy the better. Not only will denying Utah same-sex couples the right to marry cruel and unjust, in the bigger picture, all the "rainy day money" Utah has saved to go to social service programs and education will be eaten up in lengthy, protracted lawsuits that they will lose, just like California did.

SoCalChris
Riverside, CA

"The reality is that the Constitution has been and continues to be interpreted by the prevailing judicial process without regard to Christian value."

The reality is that the Constitution continues to be interpreted without regard for what it SAYS or what was INTENDED.

Sadly Utahns never realized their vote on Amendment 3 was pointless. Apparently the (fill in the blank?)-given right to marry someone of your own gender has been enshrined in the 14th Amendment all along! Many of us were just too unsophisticated to see it. We shouldn't feel bad though. Even the drafters and ratifiers of the 14th Amendment never saw it!

Seriously, the Equal Protection Clause and Due Process Clause have been around for close to 150 years, and it is only NOW that we are finding out that SSM is required by them?? It takes an amazing amount of hubris to view one's own judgment as so much more enlightened and superior to the majority of a state's population, not to mention those who gave us the Constitution and all prior generations of recorded history.

I M LDS 2
Provo, UT

Arizona1

I am surprised to read your arguments against calling marriage a 'right'.

Intuitively, don't you feel you have the "right' to marry the person of your choice? If not, why not?

The best legal minds in the country have repeatedly agreed that marriage IS a 'right'.

Indeed, from the founding of the country it has been a principle of the Constitution that 'rights' in here in each individual, and cannot be granted by the Constitution or the Government - rights can only be protected by law. As such, each individual has an inherent set of "un-enumerated rights", including the right to marry the consenting person of their choice, and the Bill of RIGHTS clearly states:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

In other words, just because marriage is not 'enumerated' in the Constitution or its amendments does not mean individuals do not have it as a 'right'. By contrast, nowhere in the Constitution does it mention specific "(licensed) privileges", much less marriage as one of them.

So, you are just plain wrong.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

66% approved Amendment 3….

9 years ago.

You want to push amendment 3 today? I dare you.

'Gallup Poll: Majority of Americans support gay marriage' - By Elizabeth Stuart - DSNews - 05/20/2011

'For the first time since Gallup started studying the issue in 1996, the polling organization found a majority of Americans favor legalizing same-sex marriage.'

A clear and evident majority support gay marriage today. You cannot cite the 'will of the people' as majority of Americans support slavery.

Today, we know better.

Also, the constitution protects ALL it's citizens. Not ignore the ones people make a concentrated effort to keep as 2nd class, citizens.

We talk of 'one person' over-ruling the will of the people (which, is actually supports gay marriage)…

What is Herbert, if he puts a stay?

One person, overturning the will of a majority of Americans, supporting gay marriage.

That, is Tyranny.

And Deseret news board, please publish findings from your own paper.

'Gallup Poll: Majority of Americans support gay marriage' - By Elizabeth Stuart - DSNews - 05/20/2011

'For the first time since Gallup started studying the issue in 1996, the polling organization found a majority of Americans favor legalizing same-sex marriage.'

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

The arguments against same-sex marriage seem to be the poster doesn't like it, the poster's religion doesn't like it, it will legalize the abuse of animals and children, it will solve all the legal issues surrounding polygamy thereby making polygamy legal , and/or it will cause the apopalyptic end of the world.

Not legally valid reasons for a law.

When the State of Utah argued against same-sex marriage before Judge Shelby, the arguments were that the gold standard for families is married heterosexual parents and the primary purpose of marriage is stability for children conceived accidentally or on purpose. They also stated they allow infertile couples to marry because those coulpes may raise children who are not able to be raised by their biological parents.

The State of Utah did not present one single reason why same-sex couples should not be allowed to marry. They did not disagree with the facts presented by the same-sex couples.

The only way Judge Shelby could have legally found for the State would have been to make up evidence not presented - which would have been activism and overstepping bounds.

Why should the Judge do the lawyers job?

BU52
Provo, ut

Since judge Shelby considers himself more powerful than the population of Utah, but he failed to rule that all the county offices had to stay open on the weekend and cater to this small minority. I do have a serious question: If marriage is so important to these folks why haven't they planned a holiday to Vermont or Hawaii and done the deed there? All of a sudden its such a catastrophy? Sorry I don't understand other than it being some symbolic thing.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

"Here, it is not the Constitution that has changed, but the knowledge of what it means to be gay or lesbian. The court cannot ignore the fact that the Plaintiffs are able to develop a committed, intimate relationship with a person of the same sex but not with a person of the opposite sex. The court, and the State, must adapt to this changed understanding."
Judge Shelby

Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.”

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Such hate comments directed at a successful governor (for a state with a thriving economy and an unemployment rate that has dropped to 4.3%), for his desire to make sure the First Amendment rights of his state's citizens are not being unduly overturned by one activist judge in preference for a small radical group.

And to top it off, these comments are coming from those who complain about the lack of tolerance in our society. Maybe they feel tolerance is lacking because they don't feel it in themselves.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

Dear Governor Herbert:

Thank you for fighting for what's right and the will of the people. If the will of the people has no meaning, American has ceased to exist. Please continue and know that "We The People" support you and your efforts.

Big Joe V
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

Now you know how we Californians feel. When the Government no longer respects the laws of the land, then it's integrity is compromised. Therefore the citizens may feel their respect of the of the government and the decisions it issues are null. Next step is anarchy.

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