If one invests in the stock market, it provides capital for those businesses to
operate. History shows that if one invests wisely, and is prepared to be
patient, they will do better than savings. It would be better if the government
provided impartial and correct information to help potential investors find
honest,reliable, and competent brokers. Unfortunately, those on government
assistance cannot do this. Provision for these people should be made. Sometimes,
some dreams should only done during dreamtime and not be confused with reality.
Perhaps if this newspaper would support efforts to provide economic opportunity
to the least affluent, then perhaps fewer would play the lottery. How about a
huge push from the DesNews to support programs to narrow the ever-widening
income disparity we are experiencing. How about pushing hard on education and
other programs to assist people to escape poverty? Instead, you will preach and
moralize while at the same time support the GOP, the party which has shown
itself to be hostile to the poor and downtrodden. They feel it is better to
give more government benefits to the rich than to engage in progressive efforts
which benefit the greatest number of our people. So, I really don't want
to hear your preaching. I want you to use your inherent platform to advocate
policies other than those of the GOP. This paper has a greater voice than its
readers, and it pushes a right wing agenda. Christ said the poor would always
be with us, but that doesn't mean we stop trying to lift them up. The
nature of your ownership should lead you to take a different direction. Why
Freedom Fighter: I'm sorry you don't understand the difference between
the stock market and the lottery. People who lack that understanding are the
ones who "invest" in the lottery. That is why at least on poster
referred to it as a tax on being stupid.
@ MarxistYou seem barely willing to admit that lotteries are a
regressive tax, yet you want to know where to outrage is over the
"regressive" FICA and sales taxes? First, the sales tax is in no way
regressive. It's flat - which to liberals seems regressive only because
it's not progressive. It takes equally from each individual based on their
spending. I will concede that the FICA tax is somewhat regressive, but only to a
segment of the population. Medicare is a flat 1.45% on all earnings for
everyone. Social Security is a flat 6.2% until about $115,000 of income. On this
point I do agree with you. It is ridiculous to me that we have a bankrupt
program, but we stop taxing for the program for those most able to pay for it.
It's almost as ridiculous as liberals being willing to make adjustments to
the program so it can survive. Otherwise, however, I think your argument is
incorrect. The lottery is regressive - it taxes the poor more than the rich. The
other taxes (Social Security cap aside) are flat (might I say fair?), not
Why is the lottery taxed at 50%, and the Uber-wealthy 1% like Mitt Romney
only being taxed at less than 11%
Oh by the way, I agree that the Lottery is a tax. A tax on being stupid.
Remember, if you win the lotter you are now one of the "rich". And as a
result you will have conficatory taxes levied (unless you take the lump sum).
What's the difference between the lottery and investing in the stock
My son worked at a local gas station. He said few if any who bought lottery
tickets drove nicer cars or had nicer clothes (not a sure sign of wealth but
certainly partial indicators). Further, that those who appeared the most
economically distressed often purchased large quantities of lottery tickets ($20
to $50 and sometimes more) each week. Obviously some of these purchases may
have been for others. But the point remains that these folks were putting a lot
of their scarce resources into something pretty much guaranteed to pay less than
50 cents on the dollar.I have sympathy with those that say govt.
should not be the nanny state. But there is also the point of protection of
citizens or at least not preying upon them ourselves (and when lotteries are
state sponsored, it is the citizens doing the preying as the state represents
the citizens).I will leave for another time whether there should be
legalized gambling at all, but it seems clear to me that the state should not be
promoting something that amounts to economic predation. And also comes with a
host of social costs.
It's amazing to read the posts on here from people who complain left to
right about the government "forcing" people to do this or do that who
are against lotteries. If people choose to buy tickets let them. It is their
I have no problem with lotteries. I wish they were more like the slots in
wendover; nobody gives you free beer when you buy a lottery ticket.
" lottery tickets are actually buying hope and dreams for less than $2 a
day". Actually Kalindra is right. The real research into this phenomena
suggests that one of the primary reasons the poor buy lottery tickets is because
it's a level playing field. It's the one place in our economy where
the chance of winning is as good as a billionaire with a ticket.BTW
the research also says that the poor spend less than 1% of the gross income on
tickets not the 5% the DN is saying. In fact no one spends 5% of their gross
income on lottery tickets. Hey but they're just facts.
"Anyone who wants something for nothing (or for the price of a lottery
ticket) is a blight on society.". Are you kidding? Someone on their way to
work stops in for a cup of coffee at their local 7/11 and buys a lottery ticket
for one dollar (by the way the coffee cost $1.50) and they are a "blight on
society"I rarely agree with your opinions but sometimes you are
outright hilarious. Where does all your judgmental wrath come from?
Mountanman... I don't understand how you can agree with this. Youre saying
too many lottery tickets are being purchased with money that should have been
spent on groceries, rent, clothes etc. I dont purchase lottery tickets because
all of the money I have is needed for those things. Sure, big payday sounds
good, but not at my family's expense. How is this a government problem?
Booze is out there; not everyone is an alcoholic. Not everyone that eats food is
obese. Our government blows at a number of things, but I hardly think it's
their fault that some people cant think for themselves and make the best
decisions for their families and live within their means. If I'm middle
class, I am just barely, so I'm not just sitting on my high horse comfy and
carefree. I worry about money every minute of every day and a lottery win would
be great. But it's not free to play, and the odds are astronomical, so I
don't. It's called logic and living within my means, and doing what i
KNOW is the right thing. It's not rocket science.
I don't understand this not even a little. At what point in our society did
it become kosher to blame ALL of our bad decisions on someone else? I
wasn't aware that purchasing lottery tickets was mandatory? I am not a
million miles north of the poverty line. But I have bills, and I have a family,
and I constantly worry about not having enough. Sure, the idea of winning the
lottery and having our troubles be over sounds appealing. But do you know why I
don't buy lottery tickets? Because I can look past the nose on my poor face
and realize that A) chances are, I won't win. EVER. and B) Buying tickets a
buck at a time doesn't seem like much, but it DOES add up, and that is
money that my family needs. The odds are printed on the tickets. At what point
is it okay to blame the person with limited funds for wasting his family's
money on a one in however many hundreds of millions odds? Good lord, sir, YOU
are the problem pushin that kind of nonsense.
While I firmly believe all lotteries are a bad idea all around, many who live in
poverty and buy lottery tickets are actually buying hope and dreams for less
than $2 a day. Yeah, they have a better chance of being struck by lightening,
but a worse chance of actually getting out of poverty any other way. And honestly, the rich are just as likely to gamble as the poor - they just
use more money and have slightly better odds and call it the stock market.
@joe5. So you criticized airnaut for blaming others but you did the same thing
by blaming democrats. Can you only put blame on someone else as long as they
are a democrat?
I have no problem with voluntary taxes. But people can voluntarily send their
money to the government already. Just write them a check... I guarantee they
will cash it.But I don't think the Government should be in the
business of tempting and encouraging the poor to throw what little money they
have away, and dangling that false promise of becoming rich to encourage them to
do so.OTHER states can do whatever they want... I'm just
talking about what I think we should/shouldn't do here in Utah.
This is a free society. There are plenty of businesses that take advantage of
the poor like payday lenders, car dealers, rent to own and so on. Where is the
outrage from people like mountainman and mike richards about those type of
businesses that take advantage of the poor.Why is not ok to buy a
lotto ticket but to buy a coke at gas station?
airnaut,Let me get this straight... it's BUSH'S fault you wasted
your education money. And it's BUSHES fault you made a bad investment in
real estate... Oh... I get it. George Bush really had it out for you!I'm wondering... why did Bush not destroy me?When are you
going to take responsibility for any of your own decisions? It was YOU who
spent the money on college. It was YOU who invested in real estate and lost.
George Bush didn't make ANY of these decisions for you.I
suspect that you have it out for George Bush more than he actually was out to
make you fail.George Bush being President for 8 years ruined the
possibility for you to retire... REALLY?? Do you think he's the one who
setup Social Security? The banking system? Controlled your ability to get and
keep a job? He alone ruined your retirement plan? REALLY? You had NOTHING to
do with it?I've always bet my money in myself and my job... and
it's payed off 100% of the time so far. You're never going to get
those odds in ANY lottery.
The same people opposed to lottery because it targets the most vulnerable the
poor, by allowing them to choose to pay a tax, are the same ones who complain
that those on the lower end don't currently pay enough in taxes. I guess
it is ok for the government impose a direct tax on the lower class, but not an
indirect tax. Interesting how compassionate and caring these people
are about the lower class when they may "sin".
When the mafia had a lottery it was called "the Numbers Racket". People
were sent to prison for this. Now we rely on people's ignorance of
mathematics and an inability to control themselves. It seems wrong for a
government to engage in predation.
To get "rich" it takes both skill AND luck, make that - a lot of
skill AND a lot of luck.1 in 3 businesses fail in the 1st year.So, the chances of "winning" are still stacked against us.I stand by what I said earlier.
@Mountanman"Lotteries create no new wealth, no new jobs and only
exacerbates poverty and increases food stamp and other welfare recipients at tax
payer expense"Pretty sure a few Idaho gas station jobs are due
solely to ticket purchases from Utahns...Anyway, welfare and food
stamps are based on a person's lack of income. What they spend money on
doesn't affect eligibility for that.
airnaut: Amazing! Simply because I personally know scores of people (including
my children) who flourished between 1981-2007. I know people who suffered
through the late 80s (Democratic white house and democratic congress) and many
who have suffered layoffs and financial struggles since then (Democratic
congress in 2006 followed by Democratic congress and white house in 2008).You can try to make this your personal political platform to vent your
angst against Republicans in general and Bush specifically but history does not
support your arguments. What it really sounds like is that the problem may have
been you instead of the system since millions of others have been successful
through hard work and education.So have fun blaming others for your
problems. If it makes you feel better and adds to your happiness, it's no
skin off my nose. That seems to be a pattern with certain types of people. I
like to call them Democrats.
@joe5South Jordan, UTAirnaut: So you think you have better
chances at winning the lottery instead of working hard and making it. =========== You are so myopic.If you bought 1 ticket
for the powerball, your chances were 1 in 175,000,000but, If I had
taken the $50,000 I spent on college, and the $350,000 I just lost in Real
Estate, and bought 400,000 tickets, the chances were 1 in 437.If I just played a simple weekly drawing in Idaho for - say $1 million, my changes would be better than 50/50. But the sad fact of life
because GW Bush was the President of the United States, My odds of working
hard for 30 years and being able to retire turned out to be ZERO.
Close minded Mormon: Where in the article did the author tell other people what
to do? Should be also suppose that you are telling people what to do when you
make comments on here? In fact, why do you keep insisting on telling other
people what to do?Airnaut: So you think you have better chances at
winning the lottery instead of working hard and making it. By your own
accounting, those who have made it constitute only 1% of the population. What do
you calculate the odds are of winning the lottery? In order to make your math
work, this most recent lottery of $600M+ must have had fewer than 200 entrants
since only 2 people won and that would yield 1% winners. The other flaw is that
making it is a lot different than being in the top 1% of the population. I feel
like I made the climb from utter poverty to success and I'm well short of
the top 1%. Great rhetoric, bad math.Marxist: What regressive sales
tax and property tax are you talking about? Those are flat rate taxes which are
neither regressive nor progressive by definition.
IMO lotteries are a tax. A tax on the most desperate people in society.Who doesn't know poor people who in desperation to get out of their
situation put money that should have been used for food or rent into the lottery
in hopes of getting out of their desperate situation?But all we get
on TV are the happy stories. They never tell the story of the
people who used their family's last dollar or even borrowed money and spent
it on the lottery in hopes of winning... and didn't win.There
are thousands of sad lottery stories for every winning story. But I guarantee
you the only story we will hear is the happy one.---I
don't think we should have a lottery in Utah, because I see it as a tax on
the most vulnerable populations we have. True... some people who can afford to
be throwing their money away also participate. But if they want to help the
government or education that bad.... they can just give their money to the
government. We should NOT be tempting poor people to throw their money away.
Anyone who wants something for nothing (or for the price of a lottery ticket) is
a blight on society. Every successful person knows that prosperity comes from
taking risk or working hard, sometimes both. Reward follows effort.
"Blessings" without "responsibilities" only guarantees failure.
Open Minded MormonOne of those rare times you and I agree. The lottery is exactly that. A tax. A voluntary tax that people can or
cannot pay. If someone is stupid enough to spend food or rent money on the
lottery, they will be that stupid in spending it on other things. Like going to
Wendover or Vegas. We can't nanny state everyone from their own bad
judgements. Here in Utah, they lose millions of dollars to the Idaho lottery.
I'm sure the government and people of Idaho love it.
Mountainman is correct as far as he goes. The money spent could also go to the
Govt as an involuntary tax or a church as a voluntary tax
Oh for crying out loud!A lottery is a TAX, and a
"volunteer", non-compulsive tax at that.You would think
conservatives would be ALL over this, but to them it is a
"sin".Tell you, why don't we just call it for
what it is, a "sin tax".BTW -- 1 other thing...This is a STATE issue.Utah doesn't even have a lottery.So, why do Utahans in Utah keep insist on telling other people, in other
states what to do?
"Amazingly lotteries are run by the government but it harms people, families
and nations!"Ah, the evil government. But, this is state
government. Isn't that where the decision making should be made?Utah has every right to refuse to institute a lottery. It is a state
choice.So, is Sheldon Adelson "harming people, families and
Lotteries are a microcosm of our economic system, as seen from the
underclass.I work with a lot of immigrants, who see the various
slimey - but entirely legal - entities that prey on the poor, such as payday
lenders, unforgiving landlords who use the letter of the law and the fine print
in agreements to extract fines and punishments, and their conclusion is that
"you make money whatever way you can, and the law is meant to protect people
who are rich". Immigrants hear people above them complaining
about excessive CEO pay, and they conclude the whole system is a sham, and the
acquisition of money - by any means - is legitimate. That's the game.
Fast talking salesmen and lawyers are the tools of the wealthy to just keep
building up bigger and bigger piles of cash.So, lotteries become a
kind of religious hope, a faith that they, too, can make it big and drive nice
cars and not have a care in the world.I agree with the D-News that
lotteries are a bad idea, but we should learn a lesson or two about how
they've impacted behavior and thinking. It's not pretty.
The author is correct. Too many lottery tickets are purchased with money that
should have gone to pay rent, groceries or medicines. Lotteries create no new
wealth, no new jobs and only exacerbates poverty and increases food stamp and
other welfare recipients at tax payer expense. Amazingly lotteries are run by
the government but it harms people, families and nations!
I disagree.Because of the gravitation of the wealth going to the 1%,
a person has a better chance of winning a lottery than he/she has of
working hard and making it.Besides -- I trusted my leaders and
invested everything I had into my education and my house.Turns out -- that
was the stupidest thing I could have ever done!My dying hope is that
there is a just God, who will see to it that the Gadianton's on
WallStreet and the politicians who cator to them get their just rewards!
They may be bad public policy but they are good tax revenue for states. The
only problem I see with the lottery is that only one or two people win a huge
jackpot, like just happened. I wish that maybe after the amount reaches a
certain number, say 100 million, that the odds could be changed so that maybe 10
different winners become possible. Instead of two people winning half a
billion, wouldn't it be better if 50 people could have split that pot? If
that happened, you would probably get 10 times the amount of people buying
tickets, because the odds would not be so impossible. In any case I see the
lottery as a voluntary contribution to a state tax fund, which has a very slim
chance of a huge rebate. I don't think the lottery is the evil that many
try to claim it is. Especially if you want to help out your states school
system or other financial needs.
Perhaps here is a method to migate the damage lotteries cause and help ensure
that people who ought not buy lottery tickets aren't.Require
that people pass a back ground check to be able to win. A winning ticket would
only be valid if the person is not struggling with debt. Is not on public
assistance or assistance of friends or relatives. Their children are not
suffering because of the parents financial condition. Once these concerns are
certified as being taken care of, then people can get a time limited permit that
would allow them to win the lottery.
A major problem with lotteries, is they divert peoples attention away from
savings and investment.
This is grossly unfair to the less fortunate in this country and we should
demand that the President and the democrats in congress remedy this situation.
Those with all the money are not paying their fair share and this is placing a
burden on those who can least afford it.We should demand free lottery
tickets for all and there should also be better odds of winning, after all it is
guaranteed by the constitution as a pursuit of happiness. Once again the rich
are using loopholes to avoid doing the right thing.
Well, guess we don't have to worry about loltteries here in Utah. If those
with little funds didn't spend money on lottery tickets, there would be
something else to spend it on of equal value. I know I'll never when the
lottery when I do get a chance to play it, but it feels good to dream a little.
If you spend over five dollars a month on lotteries, you better check in to a
One problem with lotteries is they become a substitute for savings and
Well OK, lotteries are a regressive tax in essence. Do you care about
regressive sales taxes or regressive property taxes or regressive FICA taxes?
No? So why to do get excited by it in the case of lotteries? Answer: you only
care about regressivity here because you believe lotteries are per se immoral.