I just spent a few days in Alberta, getting some good 'ol fashioned
socialised medical care. Minimum wage there is $9.95 CDN/hr., and unemployment
is less than 5%. And yes, you get health care, too. I think we can do it
OK lets realy look at it. min skills min work equates min wage. sorry 15 and
hour to flip burgers get real! The Marines, Soldiers, Airmen, and Saliors that
protect this nation make less then 3 dollars a hour. So get real! 99% of what
McDonalds does can be automated and elimanate those jobs.
The "minimum wage" and "income inequality" issues are being
pushed by people who either do not understand, or do not care about basic
economics. They are also being aggressively pushed right now to distract from
the total disaster that has been the result of every one of Obama's
economic policies. But, talking about these distracts voters
attention from the failures of Obamacare, the failures of his energy policy and
his EPA's war on coal; and the staggering and nearly unchanged unemployment
problem, and his bloated wasteful (and totally ineffective) spending
programs.When people contribute more than $15/hour worth of value
added from their efforts, they will get paid more. As it is, many minimum wage
workers are marginally useful at best.Any increases in the minimum
wage will create demands for all other wages to be increased, which is why
unions are such strong supporters. Increased wages will result in inflation,
destroying any of the imaginary gains made from increasing wages at all.
Hutterite,I presume you are in favor of fully developing our oil and
shale resources. Alberta gets nearly $4 billion in royalties from exploiting
its oil sands (which would be nearly 25% of Utah's state budget). Of
course, a lot of our natural resources are locked inside of federally controlled
land.Raising the minimum wage will be great if you still have a job.
If you do not, then it is not such a great idea. Look at countries with a
much higher minimum wage (i.e. most of Europe) and look at the rate of youth
unemployment (18-25 years old).
Let's go to the rule of 20... which just means that no one in a company
can make more than 20 times what the lowest paid person in the company makes.
In other words, if McDonalds' CEO makes 20 million dollars a year, the guy
flipping burgers makes a million per year. there is still capitalism and the
incentive to work hard to make 20 times more and to make the company
profitable... it's just that everyone working there benefits from the
collective work.As to the more realistic action taking place here,
we need to have a two minimum wages -- one applicable to minors and those
without a HS diploma or GED, and another for adults that represents what ONE
wage earner in a household needs to make to support a family of four.
Only the market can determine the value of tasks.Don't expect
Washington to do it. The money from corporate is stronger than the money from
the unions. The very reason this amnesty debate is kept in play is for CHEAPER
wages.But these protests get the Occupy crowd out of their parents'
Hutterite. If life in Canada is so wonderful, why are you living in Utah?
The Republican/tea party will be sure to get on the wrong side of this issue and
lose the house. Rush Limbaugh will help them again.
DN Subscriber 2There you go using logic and reason again. The left only
understands emotion."Right Now" and entitlement. They want equality for
everyone regardless of the effort put in. They don't understand the
concept of education, hard work and planning for your future.
My husband has a degree and ten years' experience in his field, and used to
make $17/hour, managing employees who made $9. Their company could barely make
ends meet with those modest wages.Increasing the minimum wage is,
for anyone with any ability to do math, flirting with disaster. The price
of goods will increase.The amount of people hired will decrease.Nothing will change.Already our family can't afford to eat fast
food, and if minimum wage goes up, no one will be patronizing those
establishments.Maybe what everyone in the country needs is a math
I agree with DN Subscriber 2, we should do everything we can to keep wages low
for all workers expect for upper management. George Bailey In its a Wonderful
Life had it all wrong when he said that those people who do "most of the
living and dying" in Bedford Falls deserve a decent house and a few nice
things. Those who own and manage businesses do all the work and deserve all the
profits. Unions are evil, labors are lazy and undeserving of a living wage.
They provide very little value to a company. Our country and world will be a
better place once all the wealth is held by the 1% not just 80% of it. The upside for you DN Subscriber 2 is that we are moving rapidly toward your
dream of America, an elite upper class, and the remainder of society will be
made up of lower class uneducated workers.
A minimum wage for the least paid workers in our economy is not enough to fix
the crisis in our failing capitalist economic system. Continued
existence of a civilized society requires a system for the sharing of talent and
the benefits for all members of the society; that is fair, dependable and
flexible society’s needs. Our stagnant system of today,
built on centuries of capitalism, needs to be updated to compensate for the
conditions of the present day. The rules of capitalist game needs to be updated
just like the rules for football. These changes are needed to compensate for
new advantages and protection against new dangers. The diminished
value of human labor of all, at every level, must be compensated for to keep
our system running.
Pipes - you may disagree with raising the minimum wage, but it does not help to
disparage those on the "left" who favor raising the limit. Many of us
on the "left" understand and practice the "concepts" you espouse
while favoring raising the limit. I personally favor it for economic and moral
Mostly in response to Mom of 8 -- you are correct. Maybe with a family of 8 you
don't find the opportunity or time to work (for income). Huge problem in
society is the dependence upon, and the pricing of goods to reflect such, the
two income household -- especially the many households short a second wage
earner due to death, divorce or care giving.For business it makes no
sense to shrink their market by pricing their goods as they do -- which if you
read or see ads with any awareness or regularity one can plainly see that people
earning less than $8/hour or even homes where two people somehow combine meager
wages beyond costs (more cars, insurance, fuel, childcare...) cannot afford...
the system is broke.Who are these people with with more than 30k in
household annual income? Because there are a lot of people below that needing
goods and services, working their butts off making goods and serving others. On
the other end, exactly why does anyone need to make 100's of thousands,
even millions or more annually -- consuming goods and services provided by
masses at minimum wage.
The solution to this issue is for the Union with their big money start up their
own fast food chain and pay everyone they hire $15 or $30/hr. After they fail to
remain in business in the first year, then the rest of the industry will follow
@Mom of 8"The price of goods will increase."Not
significantly. It's been estimated that raising minimum wage to 15.00 an
hour would make the dollar menu the 1.17 menu, and quite frankly minimum wage is
not going up to 15 so prices aren't going to increase that much."The amount of people hired will decrease."We've had
many minimum wage increases at state and federal levels the past century, and
there is no correlation that suggests this would occur. "Already
our family can't afford to eat fast food, and if minimum wage goes up, no
one will be patronizing those establishments."A 5% increase in
prices is really not going to alter much.
Dadp5sons.In my opinion those Marines, Soldiers, Airmen and Sailors
and their female counterparts, don’t work any harder than ordinary
Americans in the service of the American people. Yet we give them
free housing, food, health care and all the other necessities of life, along
with their pay. I think all Americans should have the same benefits
as military people. The words Life, Liberty and pursuit of
happiness should assume the equal opportunity for their participation. All
people should have free housing, food, health care and only have to work to pay
for recreation, entertainment, luxury, advanced education, and other optional
@atl134more than doubling the minimum wage will alter prices a lot, who
cares about how it will alter fast food. Of course they will get machines to do
the job because it will be5% increase is not going to alter much? Except
people will have 5% less disposable income.How many families can afford
that?It is just like the numbers you put up for the Obamacare marriage
penalty it was 1200 dollars more a year for a married couple, how many people
can afford to have a house payment taken every year?Do you have a family
or dreams? The more money I put into gas and food the less I have for a house
and saving for my kids' education.Low skill workers need to develop
skills and earn a better wage. Many of them have welfare programs to keep them
healthy and sheltered while they can build skills.Over 3 million jobs open
in this nation and a lot are not mimimum wage or even require a education. The
key to success is hard work.
To "Brent T. Aurora CO" that is an aweful idea. Lets look at it this
way. If you ran a law firm or professional sports team, you will destroy the
ability to attract the talented people that you would need if you wanted to hire
the neighbor kid to come and empty garbage cans every week and vacume the
floor.Can you imagine what would happen if a pro-basketball team had
to pay the ball boy $50,000/yr? That may not sound like much, but is the work
that they perform worth that much?The other thing that would happen
would be that companies would stop hiring employees themselves. You would
create an industry of "minimum wage" agencies. That way you can pay
your executives whatever you want, and if you need more minimum wage workers,
you pay the agency. That way they are not your employees, but are contractors
for somebody else.
Regardless of what someone thinks is "right" or how an increase is
related to inflation, there are two significant factors that doom a what these
activists are seeking:-The feds are supportive of the idea (death
knell)-If the wage is raised high enough, those who will benefit
from it won't be the current employees, it will be those are more qualified
who will be attracted by the higher wage.
Wish you guys would do some proper research rather than using the propaganda
from the networks and the unions. Virtually NO fast food restaurant workers
walked off the job in protest. The protesters were union paid demonstrators. It
turns out that less than 1/10 of 1% were actual restaurant workers. Across the
country those workers are glad to be employed and appreciate the opportune to
receive the training and climb the company ladder.When government
arbitrarily imposes minimum wages, employment goes down dramatically. Government
has no concept of the value of a job and what an employee is worth to the
employer. Even at the minimum wage level it costs the employer thousands and
thousands to train new employees. Once they get training and experience, and
show themselves a valuable employee, they usually get their first raise. Or, if
the now trained and experienced employee wants to climb faster, they use that
resume to go to another employer,leaving the last employer stuck with that
training cost. Minimum wage jobs are starting points, not the climax job.
Brent T,Did you ever think about the concept that it might not be
advisable to have a family UNTIL you can support a family. My wife and I formed
a two person family. After we had worked through educations and worked a lot of
menial jobs did we earn enough, and have the adventures, before we arrived at a
financial position at which we thought we could provide the necessities for
children. Then we had our first child...when we were 40 years old.That child is now working on a Masters in Mechanical Engineering, because we
delayed a family until AFTER we'd obtained the level many steps above
minimum wage. If we'd had a kid while making minimum wage we'd have
fallen into the trap of instant gratification likely self-sentencing ourselves
and our children to a less than successful life. No matter how much
minimum wage pays it will never be anything more than a minimum wage. The
"rich" guy that you hold in such disdain, if limited by government, will
start a second and third company, creating hundreds more opportunities for young
workers to climb above the poverty level.
My issue is we are subsidizing McD and all of the other low wage employers.
Many of the people with families are on some subsistance program. I have
nothing against seeing people eat and not live in their car but are we also
shareholders of these companies? I don't think so. Maybe the answer is to
add up all of the payments we make to these people and tack a surcharge to the
Corp. taxes.Henry Ford gave outrageous raises to his assembly line
workers. Their standard of livng improved and other companies had to follow to
keep employees. Ford sold more cars and other industries and retailers profited
from this action. It worked then.
If minimum wage, or a guaranteed income, is such a wonderful thing, we ought to
really go for it then and raise the minimum wage to $30/hr. And, Or, guarantee
everyone a minimum income of $30,000 / year.