Published: Friday, Dec. 13 2013 12:00 a.m. MST
Mr Gore is still around.And his logic and information concerning
"CLIMATE" trumps your snarky remark about "WEATHER"
I am astonished. Why does the DN print letters like this?First, Al
Gore said nothing of the kind. Mr. Haynes has distorted the man's
message.Second, Global Warming models have never predicted a sustained and
consistent raising of temperatures everywhere on earth. There is a difference
between climate and weather.Doesn't everyone know this?
There's a serious breakdown of communication going on here and I'm
afraid Deseret News is perpetuating it.
When a dear family member had terminal cancer there were good weeks and bad
weeks. But each good week was a little worse than the last. Each bad week a
bit worse as well. Finally that person died of cancer. The individual weeks
made it hard to see the entire trend (and gave us some amount of false hope).
But the overall trend was clear when seen in full (and with some dispassion).Many trend lines have a saw tooth type shape. One (or even two or
three) cold winters or mild summers do not change that significantly. Further,
you have to look at the entirety (not just your winter or summer but around the
The big news from Antarctica these days is the record low temperature of -135.8
degrees Fahrenheit, which is the coldest temperature ever recorded on the
planet. What seems to be going unreported, is that on top of the record cold in
Antarctica, the southern ice sheet is growing at a pace faster than Global
Warming theories can account for. Sea ice around the Antarctic averaged 17.16
million square kilometers (6.63 million square miles) in November. The long-term
1981 to 2010 average for November is 16.30 million square kilometers (6.29
million square miles). The arguments from the Climate Change camp all seem to be
“no matter what happens, it is still evidence of Global Warming.”
Someone else who doesn't understand the difference between weather and
climate.Just because you're freezing your buns off doesn't
change the facts that 1) Artic ice is melting at an unbelievable rate. 2) The
oceans are warmer and rising as a result of a) warmer water & b) more of it
from melted ice. 3) Weather events are more extreme than usual.All
of which is predicted by the climate models.
Don't worry. Al Gore is probably trying to organize a summit meeting on
global warming up in Minnesota right now.
"He promised that, if we allowed coal-burning power plants to dump carbon
dioxide into the air, we would never be cold again."I'm not
sure what value a letter has when it begins with such a ridiculous strawman of
He is smart enough to stay out of the dangerously polluted Salt lake Valley.
@Semi-Strong "But the overall trend was clear when seen in full (and with
some dispassion)."Correct! In the spirit of this statement, I
would encourage everyone to look at the 3,000 year proxy record, and note that
our global average temperature for last year is *below* the median temperature
for that time period. A little perspective is all we need. We are still
recovering from the Little Ice Age. We could use a little warming. Civilization
flourished during the Medieval Warm Period.@Ninutsu "There is a
difference between climate and weather."Yes. I think the rule
is, if it validates my preconception, it's climate. If it validates the
other guy's preconception, it's weather.
Thid Barker, polar ices are measured both in terms of their surface area and
their thickness. Depth is as important as area.The "new"
Antarctic sea ice is exceptionally thin, indicating that while freezing
temperatures can occur in the atmosphere, ground and ocean temperatures are
above normal. Nothing you're saying provides any valid evidence to support
the idea that global warming isn't happening.
"Yes. I think the rule is, if it validates my preconception, it's
climate. If it validates the other guy's preconception, it's
weather."No, but if a hot/cold day or a hot/cold month or even a
hot/cold year constitutes Weather. A hot/cold decade is indicative of climate.
And that holds true regardless of ones "preconception"
@ Blue. Nothing will ever convince you that man made climate change is a hoax,
not even world record cold temperatures of -138.8 degrees. Doesn't that
seem contradictory to you even when others are describing a planet, we are told,
is warming up and all the ice on the planet will melt! Believe what you want but
in 10, 20 years when the earth is still not warming, what new environmental hoax
will you embrace? Someone looking to make a quick buck will come up with it and
as PT Barnum said, "There is another sucker born every minute". The key
to recognizing hoaxes is simple: follow the money and see who's pocket it
Just for the record - from the National Snow and Ice Date Center...."On September 16, Arctic sea ice appeared to have reached its minimum
extent for the year of 3.41 million square kilometers (1.32 million square
miles). This is the lowest seasonal minimum extent in the satellite record since
1979 and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent.""The September 2012 minimum was in turn 3.29 million square
kilometers (1.27 million square miles) below the 1979 to 2000 average minimum,
representing an area nearly twice the size of the state of Alaska. This
year’s minimum is 18% below 2007 and 49% below the 1979 to 2000
average.""Overall there was a loss of 11.83 million square
kilometers (4.57 million square miles) of ice since the maximum extent occurred
on March 20, 2012, which is the largest summer ice extent loss in the satellite
record, more than one million square kilometers greater than in any previous
year."The 2013 levels bounced back some. The fact that there is
now a navigable northern passage in summer months is remarkable. This has huge
impacts on my industry, something we watch closely.
Like I said yesterday on a similar topic. Whether the climate in any given year
has more heat, more cold, more hurricanes and toronados, less heat, less cold,
less hurricanes and tornados, more ice melting, less ice melting, more wind,
less wind, longer summers, shorter summers, longer winters, shorter winters,
longer spring, shorter spring, longer fall, shorter fall, more solar and lunar
eclipises, less solar and lunar eclipises, more birds singing, less birds
singing. More pot smoking, less pot smoking, more Oscars to Meryl Streep, more
touchdown passes from Payton Manning, more chokes by Ohio State football, (yes I
really liked that one) ect. ect. ect. It will all be blamed on Global Warming.
Who could prove different?
"we would never be cold again."There's been around 2F
of warming the past 100 years in this part of the world. Why would it never get
cold again? The cold temperatures we set in Salt Lake were still 5+ degrees
above the record lows. If you look at December record lows for Salt Lake none of
them were set more recently than 1992.@Thid Barker"The big
news from Antarctica these days is the record low temperature of -135.8 degrees
Fahrenheit, which is the coldest temperature ever recorded on the
planet."At a location that has no long-term temperature record
to speak of. It could get that cold in that location more often the past century
and we just didn't know about it until recently due to lack of
observations." Doesn't that seem contradictory to you even
when others are describing a planet, we are told, is warming up and all the ice
on the planet will melt!"Why do you trust that one measurement
and not the other hundreds and thousands of measurements that make up our global
This letter writer is totally uninformed. 5 minutes examining the NASA website
on climate would give him the information he needs to turn his head around 180
@Thid Barker"The key to recognizing hoaxes is simple: follow the money
and see who's pocket it goes too!"The fastest way to get
money for climate scientists IF there were a hoax would be to expose it. The oil
company money (speaking of following money...) and right-wing radio promotion of
a book you write would make you rather wealthy. The fastest way for
a climate scientist to get money in the normal realm of thinking is to be
accurate in your research that finds new results. The scale of the hoax you
suggest involves so many people it's just not practical or realistic.
First, there is no debate over the fact they global climate change is occurring.
The only debate is whether or not it is human caused or naturally occurring.
Scientists have the same level of certainty that global climate change is human
caused as they have that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer. The number who
disagree with this is roughly the same number as still believe the world is flat
and the moon landing was faked. @ Thid Barker: Instead of just
reading and repeating the very edited talking points, you should take the time
to read and understand the actual scientific papers on that really cold
temperature and the ice sheets. The reality is actually quite different from
the denial talking points. @ Nate: It is not what point of view it
supports, but who is providing the data and interpretation. There is a valid
reason why podiatrists don't perform brain surgery, and there are valid
reasons why rocket scientists are different than climate scientists.
This letter and numerous poster have provided me with my allotment of humor for
the day. Thanks for the satire.
@Nate – “A little perspective is all we need. We are still
recovering from the Little Ice Age. We could use a little warming”Glad to see you acknowledge that we (people) are helping this warming
process along, although I’m skeptical of your faith in our ability to get
it right (i.e., just how much do we turn up the heat on the stove?).Maybe, just maybe Nature (God?) might be a better cook than us…As for the letter I would have considered it a joke as well but when I listen
to the verbal dysentery spewed on AM radio day after day I think it’s very
likely the letter was in earnest.
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