Comments about ‘Letter: Where's Al Gore?’

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Published: Friday, Dec. 13 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Mr Gore is still around.

And his logic and information concerning "CLIMATE" trumps your snarky remark about "WEATHER"

Ninjutsu
Sandy, UT

I am astonished. Why does the DN print letters like this?

First, Al Gore said nothing of the kind. Mr. Haynes has distorted the man's message.
Second, Global Warming models have never predicted a sustained and consistent raising of temperatures everywhere on earth. There is a difference between climate and weather.

Doesn't everyone know this? There's a serious breakdown of communication going on here and I'm afraid Deseret News is perpetuating it.

Semi-Strong
Louisville, KY

When a dear family member had terminal cancer there were good weeks and bad weeks. But each good week was a little worse than the last. Each bad week a bit worse as well. Finally that person died of cancer. The individual weeks made it hard to see the entire trend (and gave us some amount of false hope). But the overall trend was clear when seen in full (and with some dispassion).

Many trend lines have a saw tooth type shape. One (or even two or three) cold winters or mild summers do not change that significantly. Further, you have to look at the entirety (not just your winter or summer but around the world).

Thid Barker
Victor, ID

The big news from Antarctica these days is the record low temperature of -135.8 degrees Fahrenheit, which is the coldest temperature ever recorded on the planet. What seems to be going unreported, is that on top of the record cold in Antarctica, the southern ice sheet is growing at a pace faster than Global Warming theories can account for. Sea ice around the Antarctic averaged 17.16 million square kilometers (6.63 million square miles) in November. The long-term 1981 to 2010 average for November is 16.30 million square kilometers (6.29 million square miles). The arguments from the Climate Change camp all seem to be “no matter what happens, it is still evidence of Global Warming.”

Ranch
Here, UT

Someone else who doesn't understand the difference between weather and climate.

Just because you're freezing your buns off doesn't change the facts that 1) Artic ice is melting at an unbelievable rate. 2) The oceans are warmer and rising as a result of a) warmer water & b) more of it from melted ice. 3) Weather events are more extreme than usual.

All of which is predicted by the climate models.

happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

Don't worry. Al Gore is probably trying to organize a summit meeting on global warming up in Minnesota right now.

Res Novae
Ashburn, VA

"He promised that, if we allowed coal-burning power plants to dump carbon dioxide into the air, we would never be cold again."

I'm not sure what value a letter has when it begins with such a ridiculous strawman of Gore's position.

one vote
Salt Lake City, UT

He is smart enough to stay out of the dangerously polluted Salt lake Valley.

Nate
Pleasant Grove, UT

@Semi-Strong "But the overall trend was clear when seen in full (and with some dispassion)."

Correct! In the spirit of this statement, I would encourage everyone to look at the 3,000 year proxy record, and note that our global average temperature for last year is *below* the median temperature for that time period. A little perspective is all we need. We are still recovering from the Little Ice Age. We could use a little warming. Civilization flourished during the Medieval Warm Period.

@Ninutsu "There is a difference between climate and weather."

Yes. I think the rule is, if it validates my preconception, it's climate. If it validates the other guy's preconception, it's weather.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Thid Barker, polar ices are measured both in terms of their surface area and their thickness. Depth is as important as area.

The "new" Antarctic sea ice is exceptionally thin, indicating that while freezing temperatures can occur in the atmosphere, ground and ocean temperatures are above normal. Nothing you're saying provides any valid evidence to support the idea that global warming isn't happening.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"Yes. I think the rule is, if it validates my preconception, it's climate. If it validates the other guy's preconception, it's weather."

No, but if a hot/cold day or a hot/cold month or even a hot/cold year constitutes Weather. A hot/cold decade is indicative of climate. And that holds true regardless of ones "preconception"

Thid Barker
Victor, ID

@ Blue. Nothing will ever convince you that man made climate change is a hoax, not even world record cold temperatures of -138.8 degrees. Doesn't that seem contradictory to you even when others are describing a planet, we are told, is warming up and all the ice on the planet will melt! Believe what you want but in 10, 20 years when the earth is still not warming, what new environmental hoax will you embrace? Someone looking to make a quick buck will come up with it and as PT Barnum said, "There is another sucker born every minute". The key to recognizing hoaxes is simple: follow the money and see who's pocket it goes too!

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

Just for the record - from the National Snow and Ice Date Center....

"On September 16, Arctic sea ice appeared to have reached its minimum extent for the year of 3.41 million square kilometers (1.32 million square miles). This is the lowest seasonal minimum extent in the satellite record since 1979 and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent."

"The September 2012 minimum was in turn 3.29 million square kilometers (1.27 million square miles) below the 1979 to 2000 average minimum, representing an area nearly twice the size of the state of Alaska. This year’s minimum is 18% below 2007 and 49% below the 1979 to 2000 average."

"Overall there was a loss of 11.83 million square kilometers (4.57 million square miles) of ice since the maximum extent occurred on March 20, 2012, which is the largest summer ice extent loss in the satellite record, more than one million square kilometers greater than in any previous year."

The 2013 levels bounced back some. The fact that there is now a navigable northern passage in summer months is remarkable. This has huge impacts on my industry, something we watch closely.

SCfan
clearfield, UT

Like I said yesterday on a similar topic. Whether the climate in any given year has more heat, more cold, more hurricanes and toronados, less heat, less cold, less hurricanes and tornados, more ice melting, less ice melting, more wind, less wind, longer summers, shorter summers, longer winters, shorter winters, longer spring, shorter spring, longer fall, shorter fall, more solar and lunar eclipises, less solar and lunar eclipises, more birds singing, less birds singing. More pot smoking, less pot smoking, more Oscars to Meryl Streep, more touchdown passes from Payton Manning, more chokes by Ohio State football, (yes I really liked that one) ect. ect. ect. It will all be blamed on Global Warming. Who could prove different?

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

"we would never be cold again."

There's been around 2F of warming the past 100 years in this part of the world. Why would it never get cold again? The cold temperatures we set in Salt Lake were still 5+ degrees above the record lows. If you look at December record lows for Salt Lake none of them were set more recently than 1992.

@Thid Barker
"The big news from Antarctica these days is the record low temperature of -135.8 degrees Fahrenheit, which is the coldest temperature ever recorded on the planet."

At a location that has no long-term temperature record to speak of. It could get that cold in that location more often the past century and we just didn't know about it until recently due to lack of observations.

" Doesn't that seem contradictory to you even when others are describing a planet, we are told, is warming up and all the ice on the planet will melt!"

Why do you trust that one measurement and not the other hundreds and thousands of measurements that make up our global temperature dataset?

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

This letter writer is totally uninformed. 5 minutes examining the NASA website on climate would give him the information he needs to turn his head around 180 degrees.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Thid Barker
"The key to recognizing hoaxes is simple: follow the money and see who's pocket it goes too!"

The fastest way to get money for climate scientists IF there were a hoax would be to expose it. The oil company money (speaking of following money...) and right-wing radio promotion of a book you write would make you rather wealthy.

The fastest way for a climate scientist to get money in the normal realm of thinking is to be accurate in your research that finds new results. The scale of the hoax you suggest involves so many people it's just not practical or realistic.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

First, there is no debate over the fact they global climate change is occurring. The only debate is whether or not it is human caused or naturally occurring. Scientists have the same level of certainty that global climate change is human caused as they have that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer. The number who disagree with this is roughly the same number as still believe the world is flat and the moon landing was faked.

@ Thid Barker: Instead of just reading and repeating the very edited talking points, you should take the time to read and understand the actual scientific papers on that really cold temperature and the ice sheets. The reality is actually quite different from the denial talking points.

@ Nate: It is not what point of view it supports, but who is providing the data and interpretation. There is a valid reason why podiatrists don't perform brain surgery, and there are valid reasons why rocket scientists are different than climate scientists.

FT
salt lake city, UT

This letter and numerous poster have provided me with my allotment of humor for the day. Thanks for the satire.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@Nate – “A little perspective is all we need. We are still recovering from the Little Ice Age. We could use a little warming”

Glad to see you acknowledge that we (people) are helping this warming process along, although I’m skeptical of your faith in our ability to get it right (i.e., just how much do we turn up the heat on the stove?).

Maybe, just maybe Nature (God?) might be a better cook than us…

As for the letter I would have considered it a joke as well but when I listen to the verbal dysentery spewed on AM radio day after day I think it’s very likely the letter was in earnest.

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