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Can Mandela's legacy revive the GOP?

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  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Dec. 14, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    It just all depends where the money is at; it is Wall Street that owns Washington, and Washington will play to the tune of Wall Street. So figure it out: is Mandela good or bad for Wall Street.

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    Dec. 12, 2013 10:17 a.m.

    I am so glad there are people posting who remember Mandela's approach to "liberation," and social equality. I have no idea how many people died violent deaths under his influence, but I am NOT a Mandela fan, and I am horrified to see him being remembered as a good leader when his deeds tell another story. Thank you to those of you who reminded us of his history, which has been well documented. Why anyone would want any leaders to follow his example is beyond figuring out.

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Dec. 12, 2013 3:33 a.m.

    Mandela brought people together.

    Republicans in Washington get money from their rich donors to obstruct President Obama, and republicans who watch Fox News are fooled by Rupert Murdoch into thinking that awful behavior is called for, since they have been fed lies.

    Mandela was for equal rights

    Republicans in many States have instituted restrictive voting rules that effectively damage the rights of minorities who vote Democratic, while pretending, via race baiting, that voter fraud is a an actual problem

    Mandela was for all people

    Republican office holders are very unlikely to find Murdoch, the Kochs, Rove, etc suddenly telling them to put the interests of Americans ahead of their own wallets.

    Doubt it? Why was Romney not discredited badly after the last election, when we all heard him, in his own voice, denigrate 47% of Americans? Because most republicans agree.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    Dec. 11, 2013 5:12 p.m.

    @2bits,

    See some of the gems in response to the article titled "Utahns react to death of Nelson Mandela" and a recent comment to "Mandela's greatest achievement may be yet to come." Go attack those statements instead of lobbing accusations of strawmen and faux outrage to racism at me.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    @ Res Novae 3:48 p.m. Dec. 10, 2013,

    Re: "Considering that some of the DN's commenters have asserted that there was nothing wrong with apartheid"...

    Can you site any names of posters who said "apartheid is OK"? Or was that just a straw man you made up?

    I don't know anybody who thinks there is nothing wrong with apartheid.

    You're not one of those "anybody who's not a Democrat is a racist" kinda guys are you?

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 4:15 p.m.

    I appreciate all the wonderful criticisms by the leftist readers of the desnews who hail Mandela as a saint.

    Saint? That depends on your view.

    For instance, if the following Mandela quote inspires the greatest within you, then he surely is a saint: “We Communist Party members are the most advanced revolutionaries in modern history…the enemy must be wiped out from the face of the Earth before a Communist world can be realized.” – Nelson Mandela during his 1962 trial for terrorism.

    Have you seen the videos of Mandela (young and old) singing the ANC theme song that sounds so lovely, that it literally moves you to tears. Interpreted, it talks of killing the Bhulu. What's bhulu?

    It's the white people.

    Or how about that inspiring quote by his adorable wife, Winnie, who said: "With our boxes of matches and our necklaces, we shall liberate this country." (April 13, 1985 in Munsieville, Johannesburg). What are the "necklaces" she referred to? Fruit Loops? Wrong. It's a tire filled with gasoline that is placed around political opponents and lit. Adorable.

    These are your saints and your heroes who served time for terrorism. And you keep drinking that koolaid.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Dec. 11, 2013 3:00 p.m.

    SCfan
    Open Minded Mormon

    When will you and others learn. Reagan was against big taxes and big government. That, building up the military, and defeating the Soviet Union were his agenda. None of those priorities would put him (Reagan) out of the T-Party. Today he would likely be seen as the leader of the T-Party movement.

    ===========

    Reagan - Godbless him --
    Would be RINO,
    and would publically be crucified like "moderate" Jon Huntsman Jr. and Bob Bennett.

    Reagan signed and approved;

    pro-choice legislation,
    assault and handgun weapons bans,
    granted amnesty to illegal immigrants,
    signed MORE Executive Orders in the 1st 6 months in office than "King Obama" has in 5 years,
    increased the size and scope of the Federal Government,
    increased the national debt 17 times,
    just to name a few...

    BTW - I voted for Reagan, twice.
    He was BIG tent, inclusive, moderate,
    He had most Republians,
    ALL moderates,
    and many Democrats vote for him.

    As it stands now,
    Mike Lee won't get reelected in hardcore, rightwing TeaParty red Republican Utah.
    That's why he's "changed" and has been singing a completely different tune since his Government shutdown.

    BTW -- I also served in the military under Reagan.
    Did you?

  • Unreconstructed Reb Chantilly, VA
    Dec. 11, 2013 2:53 p.m.

    "[I]t was Woodrow Wilson a Democrat that segregated the U.S. military...."

    I've no idea what this has to do with Mandela's legacy, but it's egregious enough that I'll bite on the red herring. The US military, with the sometime exception of the Navy, forbade blacks from even enlisting from 1792 to 1862. In the Civil War, blacks formed the US Colored Troops, which were segregated from white regiments and forbidden black officers. This segregation continued through the Indian Wars (and the famed "Buffalo Soldiers" of black cavalry), the Spanish-American War, and both World Wars until Truman (a Democrat!) desegregated the military.

    "Democrats were the hold outs on the Civil Rights legislation that started in the fifties."

    You need to look past who as a (D) or (R) next to their names, look up 'Dixiecrats' and understand how the Solid South went from Democrat to Republican. Look up why LBJ stated, "I think we just delivered the South to the Republican party for a long time to come," on signing the Civil Rights Act.

    The GOP supporting apartheid in the 1980s were a generation removed from being Democrats.

    As to the article, couldn't agree more.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 2:34 p.m.

    jsf

    I'm glad you brought it up about Winnie Mandela and the necklace. Which for those of you who don't know, was people being burned alive because of politics. Nice folks those Mandelas. Or at least the ANC. However, I don't know if Nelson himself had anything to do with that atrocity, so I'll reserve judgement. What gets me is why do the left, not only in America, but the world, revere people who have done such bad things in the name of their cause, only because it is a leftist cause? Especially since they are the ones who are always crying about human rights, and torture. You folks just make no human reason sense.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    Again Mandela was not incarcerated because he was black, but for terrorist activities. The attacks on black Africans by the ANC was because they didn't support the ANC and their terrorist activities. The more you dig for information about the ANC and this man the more evil comes raises it's head. Google Winnie Mandela necklace and watch the recorded videos. If you can watch these and not cringe and be appalled, then go ahead and support the leader of the ANC.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    The only thing Mandela accomplished was his pr ability to sweep under the rug his past. I'm sure you wouldn't like to be wearing a Winnie Mandela necklace. Seems a lot of African's died wearing one, and we are not talking white South Africans. The fact so many GOP people are worshiping at his alter are because they lack the understanding of who he really was. As for Mandela fighting against everything the GOP stands for today, that's a broad stroke of a dishonest brush. Conservatives do oppose a lot of things the African National Congress used to get their way. Kind of like we stand against the horrific purges of Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, and the means used by the ANC.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    Open Minded Mormon

    When will you and others learn. Reagan was against big taxes and big government. He called for tax cuts. That, building up the military, and defeating the Soviet Union were his agenda. None of those priorities would put him (Reagan) out of the T-Party. Today he would likely be seen as the leader of the T-Party movement. In fact, in his day, Reagan WAS considered an outsider Republican. Outside the mainstream moderate Republican Party of Gerald Ford. Reagan was looked upon by some Republicans, lots of Democrats, and most of the media as what a Rand Paul, Ted cruz, or Mike Lee is looked upon like today. That is just how it was. I was there voting for Reagan, and so I know how he was perceived. A right wing wacko, who wanted to nuke the Russians. So please stop with trying to re-define Reagan to suit the liberal cause.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 11, 2013 12:03 p.m.

    GOP - the Archie Bunker party.
    Middle aged, corporate white-men.

    By their very own admission,
    They fall short appealing to college-aged young poeple, women, minorities, LGBTs, and non-Chrisitians.

    Nelson Mandela fought for the inclusion of ALL South Africa's citizens, and against taking revenge.
    The conservative GOP - like the conservative National Party [Apartheid] -- stands diametrically opposed as his polar opposite.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Dec. 11, 2013 11:11 a.m.

    What is with the GOP and their fantasy world of trying to associate with great leaders?

    Abrahma Lincoln was an R, but he was a Liberal Progressive.
    Ronald Reagan was an R, but he would today be considered a RINO.

    Nelson Mandela was a Socialist/Communist -- and days ago Tea-Party darling neo-con Senator Mike Lee calls him "a champion for liberty and justice, and one of the great heroes of our age."

    Nelson Mandela fought against EVERYTHING the GOP stands for today.
    So, the only way Madela can revive the GOP is for the GOP to listen to their own advice and stop being the Party of Stupid.

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    Dec. 11, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    Why would we want the GOP to follow his example? He was a revolutionary and that can be good, but he was responsible for countless deaths in his violent approach. I don't get it.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    Yes Ernest the US did not condemn South Africa for Apartheid, but then it was Woodrow Wilson a Democrat that segregated the U.S. military and Washington D.C., he supported separate but equal. Democrats were the hold outs on the Civil Rights legislation that started in the fifties. The Democrats were part of the government also. Don't recall them as a party standing up against Apartheid. But if you say it long enough you will get the uninformed to believe what you say. Of course Mandela was arrested for his group being in possession of a large number of anti - personnel mines and other explosives. His stay in prison could have been shorter if he had denounced his groups terrorist actions. And has any of his work actually improved the economic conditions in South Africa? I listened to a black South African on the radio yesterday say conditions are no better now for the mainstream black than they were under Apartheid. So now Obama got his shining selfie moment, the left has their black Che, and its time to address the problems for real.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 9:10 a.m.

    Revive the GOP? Is this for real?
    The GOP supported everything Mandela fought. The GOP in the US supported Apartheid. How does this paper have credibility with these sorts of articles?

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Dec. 11, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    “He seems like a decent enough fellow, but there’s something about that Mandela guy I just don’t like. He reminds of the guy in the White House – both left of me but not nearly as left as other I admire or at least don’t hate (e.g., FDR, Eisenhower, Clinton). I can’t quite put my finger on it, but when I look at Mandela and our current president I just seethe.”

    Subconsciously (or not) thought many on the far-right over the last 5 days (years).

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 8:05 a.m.

    Mandela was a communist. He did engage in violence. Terriorist or freedom fighter? Your point of view. He also helped bring some equality and justice to millions in Africa. His wife Winnie was said to have done some pretty bad things. But we should leave her out of this because it is about him. Mandela was, like every other leader, a person who had both good and bad in his life. 27 years in prison was a long time. And he did not come out bitter, but forgiving from what I've understood. Strong character in that. And it should be remembered that it was also the white minority who had the power in South Africa, and they in the end allowed change to happen without a lot of bloodshed, which they could have caused. I just wish the rest of the despotic leaders on the African continent would be equally peaceful in allowing more rights and freedom to their people. Instead we have the a lot of leaders there who are not taking the Mandela approach.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Dec. 11, 2013 7:47 a.m.

    Truthseeker

    You probably are on to something, because as long as this idea is applied to BOTH political parties, then something can be said for change in D.C. The trouble is, I think most of the change needs to come from the Democrats, who for instance have just recently changes the rules in the Senate for their own needs. And I think the Democrats have many more "bomb throwers" in both office and the media. That, in my opinin is the source of much anger and lack of cooperation in D.C. I'm sure you would say just the opposite of me.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Dec. 11, 2013 7:06 a.m.

    Yep.

    Today's American GOP can learn something from the now defunct Apartheid, white-man ruled, uber-conservative South Africa --
    and the election of the left-leaning, Nelson Mandela as South Africa's 1st black President.

    Wake-up.
    History will once again prove you have been wrong.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 11, 2013 4:16 a.m.

    "Washington politicians who gleefully scheme to make their opponents fail - even when this willful failure delays America's pursuit of prosperity?"

    This sums up our countries political problems in a nutshell. Our parties, and a big chunk of the electorate put party over country.

    Until that changes, our country will flounder.

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 10:48 p.m.

    "Martin Schram writes political analysis for Scripps Howard News Service."

    -----------------

    And, like most others in the mainstream media, he writes with a distinctly leftward leaning.

    Too bad. Despite the biased headline, when I started reading the article it appeared his approach might actually include Democrats among those who could learn necessary lessons from the conciliatory actions of Nelson Mandela. But, too soon and too predictably, it concluded with the familiar one-sided determination that it is only Republicans who need tutoring.

    I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican and have voted for candidates from both parties. One of the biggest reasons I've never joined either party is because of the tendency toward greater partisanship than citizenship shown by too many of their members. In other words, there are too many in both parties that need to learn from Mandela's statesmanship.

    Based on this article, I'd say Schram needs to study Mandela a bit more too.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 10, 2013 9:47 p.m.

    Did anyone read the article before commenting?

    "Can Mandela's legendary eschewing of the politics of hate teach anything to Washington partisans who play politics with a vengeance? Can Mandela's lesson properly shame Washington politicians who gleefully scheme to make their opponents fail - even when this willful failure delays America's pursuit of prosperity? For years, we have witnessed Washington's decent to its de facto status of Hate City - and yet we, as citizens, put up with it. We watch politicos peacock around in our living rooms, on our screens. Then we re-elect our own senators and representatives - and complain everyone else's."

  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 6:27 p.m.

    Mandela refused to embrace hate.

    Obama has said "Republicans can come along for the ride but they'll have to sit at the back of the bus".

    And Obama said we will punish our enemies.

    Sounds to me like Obama is similar to Mandela...er.

  • Jazzsmack Holladay, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 5:33 p.m.

    The real question us can Mandela's legacy teach anything the to the entrenched and uncompromising democrat party and the extreme left?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 5:25 p.m.

    What the heck does Mendela have to do with the GOP? I think Mendela's influence on the GOP is about as strong as whichever team wins the Super Bowl will have influence over the GOP.

    revive the GOP? I don't think that's very likely. Especially since the majority of the GOP refuses to even acknowledge that they're dead.

    We all see how dead they are. How they're rotting in the polls and have lost just about everyone except for old white evangelicals. Unfortunately, the GOP's leadership has yet to acknowledge this.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 4:54 p.m.

    The tea party legacy, it passed recently too. See new budget deal.

  • Phranc SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 4:32 p.m.

    @mapledon
    Oh, I get it. It's the old evil news media attacking the poor innocent and defenseless GOP again. Your comment once again serves as proof that when Romany was talking about the 47% he was talking about the victim state of mind of the GOP.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    Dec. 10, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    Considering that some of the DN's commenters have asserted that there was nothing wrong with apartheid, I fear that holding up Mandela as an example to emulate is wasted effort.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    Not when a decent number of conservatives consider Mandela some commie terrorist (the comments on Sen. Lee's facebook post honoring Mandela are rather crazy).

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 3:15 p.m.

    What the... is this guy talking about?

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 3:07 p.m.

    What does Mandela have to do with the Republican Party? Oh, I get it. It's the old news media agenda masked as a story to instruct the low-information crowd. It's simple: the Left=good; the Right=hate. Got it. Commie koolaid.