@Just the FAX 'What you and a lot of Utah fans don't seem
to understand is that rankings embody TWO criteria, record and SOS.Losing against a strong SOS (see Utah) or winning against a weak SOS (see
Utah) yields similar results in ranking.Football BCS Rankings#39 BYU(8-4)#58 Utah(5-7)Basketball RPI Rankings#9
BYU(6-2) #6 SOS#137 Utah(6-1) #330 SOS"@Tators"A team with a difficult schedule who wins most of their games is usually
better than a team who wins all of their games with a very easy
schedule."So I'm assuming based on your comments that you
both agree BYU's 1984 football team that had the #84 SOS out of 110 teams
shouldn't have been crowned the National Champions over Washington?
It's quite impressive that BYU has the 4th toughest schedule in the
country, yet still has multiple times more wins than losses. Even more
impressive is that even a few Ute fans have acknowledged that. @
JoCo Ute:The primary difference between Ute football and BYU basketball is
that even though both teams have (or had) national top-5 levels of competition,
the Utes lost most of their games, while BYU is currently winning most of
theirs. Thus, the difference in perception and recognition from the press.Having the hardest schedule in the world in any sport means basically
nothing if most of those games are lost... since nothing meaningful is then
proved. A team with a difficult schedule who wins most of their games is
usually better than a team who wins all of their games with a very easy
schedule. BTW:When an athletic director purposely creates a very
easy schedule for his/her team, it's usually for a reason that isn't
deemed positive... even though an effort to help rebuild a struggling program is
in itself positive.
My 2 cents on SOS:In both Football and Basketball it is ultimately
about winning a National Championship or about finishing as highly ranked as
possible...In Football a team will usually only play the NCAA
maximum of 12 games and a Bowl (unless you play in Hawaii or somewhere off the
mainland...Most Conferences require 9 Games within the Conference, leaving only
3 games that can be scheduled outside the Conference... So strength of
conference matters more for Bowl placement... For Independents (like BYU and ND)
SOS matters more for rankings and bowl placement.In Basketball most
teams play a 30 to 32 game schedule and usually 35% to 40% of those games are
OOC... Strength of Conference still matters but it is only 60% to 65% of the
equation... Where as in Football it is 75% of the equation... In Basketball a
Selection Committee determines who gets bracketed in a national playoff and who
doesn't and they have put a lot of weight on OOC Schedule Strength
(Particularly for Mid Major teams)...In Football you qualify for
bowls based on contractual agreements and where you finish in your conference...
Recently the BCS has acted as the FB selection committee for the NC.
JoCo Ute"Come on Nate. Can't the D-News Sports Department
pick a POV and stick to it."What you and a lot of Utah fans
don't seem to understand is that rankings embody TWO criteria, record and
SOS.Losing against a strong SOS (see Utah) or winning against a weak
SOS (see Utah) yields similar results in ranking.Football BCS
Rankings#39 BYU(8-4)#58 Utah(5-7)Basketball RPI
Rankings#9 BYU(6-2) #6 SOS#137 Utah(6-1) #330 SOS
JoCo UteSagarin is very generous to the Utes in football, but
Sagarin is only one of several computer rankings in the BCS formula, and the
Utes aren't nearly as highly thought of in a lot of other rankings:Sagarin - #28 BYU > #33 UtahBCS - #39 BYU > #56 UtahCBS Sports - #38 BYU > #67 UtahUSA Today - #34 BYU > #76 Utah
During the football season the ute SOS was all important. Now with basketball,
not so much.
Just as an observation, strength of schedule isn't really realistic until
the end of the season based on real rankings is it? My advice is just go and
win the games you have scheduled and don't look for excuses.
Jo-- Of course it matters if you have a few "good losses" but not if you
lose more than you win. It matters to Sagarin because it's their job &
they make money to take it out farther than most people care. It matters to you
because you're looking for an excuse-- I'll assume you're talking
about football here. Thanks for providing the perfect example.
Hi Funny. I have to disagree w/ you on your analysis. The criteria for
Football and Basketball rankings for post season play is almost identical for
both sports this year and will be identical next year. Basketball post season
ratings currently leans on RPI and next year football will be looking at SOS.@ Souptwins if you think SOS doesn't matter if you lose, then take
a look at the Sagarin computer rankings where Utah is ranked # 33. This ranking
is based on the very strong SOS. Utah ranks higher than #37 UCF @ 10-1, #38 No.
Illinois @ 12-0, #40 Duke @ 10-2 and even #42 USU @ 8-4. . . SOS matters
BTW-- I understand why the Utes have taken this approach in rebuilding the Bball
program and it's quite smart. So far (except BSU) the games have amounted
to live scrimmages where the team can learn to run the system and gain
confidence in a competitive game situation. The coaches have basically thrown
in the towel on post season tourney play-- barring miracles-- by playing such a
soft schedule. In the long run, it will probably pay off because it accelerates
the team's progress. The team is looking better than they've looked
in several years so that's terrific. They may even upset some good
opponents this year. I'd love to see more strong teams in the state and
wish them well. None of that changes the validity of the SOS talk.
I'll explain it to you. SOS is something to consider if a team has a lot
of wins to verify if they have been quality wins. If you don't win, no one
cares because you're just another win on someone else' schedule and
siting your SOS comes off as excuse making. Once a team has several wins, we
can then have the SOS conversation. This is why the poor SOS for the Utes in
Bball comes up-- those wins aren't as meaningful because of the poor SOS.
SOS didn't matter when talking about the Utes' football team because
they weren't winning those games anyway. It was just brought up by those
wishing to justify the losses. Win = talk about SOS. Lose = SOS doesn't
matter except to those looking for an excuse. Not too hard.
@JoCo UteI was thinking it was pretty optimistic to rank the Utes in
the top 15. I don't think they have done much in recent years to deserve
the benefit of the doubt in basketball. But I thought they looked good against
Boise last night. I like Loveridge a lot.
@ JoYou can have it both ways because basketball and football are two
different beasts played two different ways.
Come on Nate. Can't the D-News Sports Department pick a POV and stick to
it. Rock criticizes Utah football (who had the toughest schedule in the county)
for losing, and praises USU (who had an SOS of about 85) for winning.Then you guys turn around and knock Utah basketball for having a very weak
basketball schedule and winning. How can you have both ways?