Midwest mom. Without sounding too harsh there are a lot of people in Wisconsin
that are a lot worse off than your family and probably think they are entitled
to part of your retirement. they are without food and clothing and could use a
lot more sacrifice than you are willing to give. Do they deserve your
retirement? the point is simple. Government tries to do what free markets
actually do; it delivers without promising things it can't. Free markets
actually can determine what a person actually is worth, which in a
teacher's case could be much more than you can receive from a union rep.
The problem for Detroit was their city fathers and mayors were anti business.
So what did business do? they left the city. Thus no tax revenue and large
salaries and pensions for police, firemen, other government workers did not
help. When government runs the economy as in the Soviet Union, North Korea,
Zimbabwe, etc. we have very poor countries and in Detroit a very poor city. Tea
Party principles of less government and lower taxes are designed to enhance an
economy. They are correct.
Midwest mom.The Book of Mormon also cautions the poor to not lust
after riches. I don't think any of us want to judge others for
what is in their hearts and minds. Rather, we all want a safe, strong, free
society to raise our families and have the opportunity to provide for our
children and help others.This article deals with a bankrupt city.
The cause of the bankruptcy was over-extended benefits and pensions. This
problem must be dealt with. The contracts must be renegotiated.No
one is stating that union service is poor, or that workers are lazy. No one is
begrudging the poor. We must deal with a bankrupt city and the
bandersen: If government never had the authority to negotiate contracts with
labor, then they committed fraud. The product of labor has been consumed. I am
astonished that so many of you are indifferent towards those who are being
robbed of their earned, deferred wages. Would you cheer a burglar or robber in
the street? As I said before, the hatred towards working people sickens me.
The poor are despised for their presumed sloth. The laborer is
despised for wanting fair compensation -- they should be content with low pay,
but then that makes them poor, so they become despised for that, since only lazy
people earn low wages. The rich, however, are presumed to be
beautifully hardworking and worthy of all they have.Did it ever
occur to some of you that all the government spending to support the poor is
really supporting corporations like WalMart? The nation's largest private
employer makes its owners outlandishly rich by oppressing their workers and the
rest of us pay for it.
Excuse me, but the way I was raised, liberty is extended to the working man and
woman, just as it is to the entrepreneur -- "all [people] are created
equal." The laborer is the owner of his/her labor and can participate in
the marketplace. My family has 30 years experience with
teachers' unions. My husband has been greatly involved. Through
negotiation, our union made it possible for the district to pay off the school
mortgage 2 1/2 years early. We have given back, year after year to protect
retirement benefits, which also were reduced, through negotiation, to reflect
the ever-tightening budgets. This is what happens when both sides negotiate in
good faith, so excuse me if I refuse to drink the koolaid of union bashing. Now, since our governor took away union bargaining in 2011, districts
are playing hardball. My son was asked to sign a contract without a salary
amount (he has left for Minnesota, where he got a $6K raise). Act 10 cost our
family $600 from our net. But the next budget surplus did not restore cuts,
instead going for political payback. Read your Book of Mormon. It
is not the poor who wreck society, but the rich.
Midwest Mom: Your contempt for those expressing their belief in liberty and free
markets is misplaced. Detroit going bankrupt has everything to do with the
events that precipitated it, but nothing to do with the brotherhood of man.
Poor public policy does not mean that anyone that disagrees with it is
"sickening" or mean or any other epitaph you may use. Detroit promised
something that they shouldn't have ever promised because there ability to
deliver wasn't built on principles of integrity. If anything, the public
officials that went along with it should be held accountable, but other than
that, this is a sad consequence of socialistic thought and poor judgement.
Government shouldn't be required to "fix" something that they never
had the authority to start in the first place.
Liberals and progressives: Understanding and differentiating between what you
believe and what just ain't so would help. I want everyone to be happy,
live in a big house with a flat screen tv, and all their bills paid on time and
without turmoil and stress, but then I wake up and realize that the real world,
with all its ups and downs is better because it is real. It is called life! The
longer you point the finger of blame and/or credit to something you probably
view as God and I view as Government, you aren't going to be satisfied. My
suggestion is to make the world a better place by your individual choices and
decisions and leave the rest up to God. Detroit went bankrupt for the same
reasons that frustrate you;they thought they could control everything, including
the free market, countries, and nations and it backfired, as it always will.
The only thing you can do is learn to live within your means, quit promising the
world to everyone and let God in on the outcome, rather than point the finger of
blame at something he supports, liberty and freedom! Life is good!
Over indulgence of unions and foolish social programs have destroyed a city.
This has nothing to do with hatred of working people. Emotionalism doesn't
work in the face of facts. Unions, although needed when they began, have become
destructive forces today. We can't keep adding programs just because we
think of them. We need personal responsibility and reasonable policy decisions.
Unions have placed their friends in positions of power and then raided the
public coffers for their own benefit. This has to stop.Detroit is a
classic example and a microcosm of why big-brother government doesn't work.
Let's learn the lesson before Obamacare and the Left completely destroy
This is directly related to unions. Unions, under arbitration and
negotiations, obtained very good compensation packages for city employees and
workers. It was all good until the 2008 market collapse. Funds were
insufficient to fulfill contracts.Now, if you read the article here,
you'll see that the unions want the Detroit bankruptcy thrown out of court,
and the city liable to pay what was negotiated.I agree that
contracts should be honored. But in this case the city is BANKRUPT. Unions and employees will have to renegotiate their compensation, as Scott
Walker did in Wisconsin, as the Utah legislature did, as New Jersey has done,
and I'm sure other states have done.Do some research into the
crazy salaries some of these city employees were earning. Not balanced.I am not against workers, nor city employees, nor all functions of
government. I am not against the stock markets, or contracts.The
realities are that unions will be required to renegotiate. Again, read the
article. Under dispute is whether the city has already shown a good-faith
effort towards renegotiating. Unions say "No", the city says
"Yes". The cities that are in good financial shape are
those that were wise.
@TRUTH, I find your comment short-sighted. It's not the garbage collectors,
the police officers, the EMTs, the road crews, etc. who mismanaged city
finances. These people have served their city in good faith and fulfilled their
side of a bargain. For the city of Detroit to renege on their side as a
convenient way to get out of debt would be an affront to the very people who
devoted their working lives to keeping the city running.
The hate toward the working people on this website sickens me. I'd try to
correct the mendacity, but it would be casting pearls.
We have several issues being mixed here that are not connected. This case has
nothing to do with a living wage nor does it really have anything to do with
unions. This case is simply about an entity, Detroit city, that was very
foolish with their money for years and years.Detroit politicians promised
things year after year that had no way of ever coming to pass and the point in
time came that the promises caved in. It might be the place of the state of
michigan to help out but it is definitely not the place of the federal
government to bail them out.Those that got them there should pay and not
the rest of us, we have our own issues. It is time to be accountable.
It seems that there is an end to other people's money as speculated by the
late Margret Thatcher. We see it here. But I bet the Democrats, socialists and
other hardest-of-hard-core trade unionists only look at this as a betrayal
rather than a just end to their unjust fleecing of the taxpayers. Tax payers
should not have to support bloated un-American leftist union oligarchs. However
locally controlled collective bargaining should be a right.
Lots of cities have unions and pensions but don't go bankrupt. I think the
problem is more complex than most tea-partiers think.
Global competition and a lack of inventiveness did in the US car market, NOT the
Unions.Don't you remember that in 2007-8 GM/Ford/Crysler had almost
NO fuel efficient vehicles ready? Not smart and lack of vision.Change
happens. How we respond to the change is what makes the difference. Yes there is
Global competition. But we can still pay a living wage.The fact that
there are less and less living wage jobs is why the government is being asked to
pony up. Where else does an American get the means? You work 40+ hours a week
and still have to choose from paying the rent or feeding the family. This is a
nightmare shared my almost 1/2 the US. The situation out there is
horrendous and The Market is NOT helping. You are a fool if you believe it ever
will.Wages have to go up. Unions are the way that will happen. As people
remove the blinders and quite listening to the talking points (because you
can't pay your bills with right wing outrage) Unions will be returning to
offer those people a place at the bargining table
As an American, we question our cities, state and federal government need for
our tax dollars. Many times we angrily ask why do they go so far into debt?
Then, I note we give Islamic nations like Pakistan over 6 billion dollars to
"like us better". I would prefer them to continue to dislike us, and use
the money to pay off our city debts. This is my opinion, and that is the way it
Once again the Democrats and liberals have misled American citizens. They
promised that union members would receive exorbitant pensions and
benefits...that the cities could not afford.And now that everyone
recognizes that cities are going bankrupt, what do the unions do? They
don't renegotiate for the good of the community. Instead, they behave with
greed and careless abandon towards the citizens who pay for their pensions! The
unions take the cities to court. Now apply actual events of
bankruptcy, due to Democrats and unions, to Obamacare and other programs that
are bankrupting our country. Now ask yourself...why do we keep
electing these people who are causing so much destruction?
Unions and Democrats bankrupted Detroit....its only fitting that those who
soaked the city pay the price for the insolvency... good job judge!