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Sen. Osmond introduces 3 bills to end compulsory education

Published: Monday, Dec. 2 2013 6:30 p.m. MST

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UtahBruin
Saratoga Springs, UT

This has got to be the dumbest thing ever. In every one of these proposed ideas is the word affidavit or required. If you want to hold a child/parent accountable. Then quite this no child left behind thing and if a kid wants to let schooling go, well then that kid ends up falling back to the parents and they are forced to deal with it.

Also, I know a few teachers have posted on here, and many teachers are good teachers. However, how about holding the teachers accountable for "teaching", I am sick and tired of getting paper packets stapled together with homework and when I ask my kid about it, they say the teacher never talked about it. Then when I do go speak to the teacher, they say, "Oh that is just to see where there level is at." Then why put so much emphasis on the paper for grades. Your a teacher so teach! I am fortunate enough to have two kids who are straight A students, but some weight needs to be put on the teachers to do their jobs as well.

Quit blaming parents and trying to get more money out of them.

Dave M
Louisville, KY

UtahBlueDevi,

First, sorry. I meant to say for profit colleges.

Second, agreed that education is to provide proficiency. Just as time in the classroom can be abused to be confused with proficiency so too can proficiency testing be abused to mean an absolute minimal exposure (just enough for credit). It could be used as a way to save money by saying the kid is sufficiently educated when that is not accurate.

RedShirt,

Maybe. But I have seen it in two distinct regions of the country. Don't get me wrong. Some of the kids do okay. But many get tossed into the public system after several years of parental failure and then have to play catch-up. If you were monitoring their struggles, you might ascribe them (incorrectly) to the public school. In more than one case I have seen, the TV seemed to be the primary "learning" tool.

I think home schooling can work. But parents need to be vetted and the kids regularly tested to see that they are learning. Also, the best ones I have seen are in small groups where the parents share the load (one teaches science, another English, etc.).

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

In their race to gather the last few remnants of wealth from the American people, the rich and powerful, businessmen and other uncaring souls seem to be falling all over each other.

For the last few decades public education is a favorite target for their agenda. The object is to dumb down the people so that they will be easy to fool and fall for any scam that comes along.

Some military general is supposed to have said “Idiots make the best soldiers”. Have you noticed all the effort to aggrandize and puff up the military people? Have you also noticed all the military we have spread around the world with the main mission of supporting business.

One of a Few
Layton, UT

Let's see, parents of public school children would incur new legal/financial responsibility, i.e. more government control. However, parents of home schooled children are exempted from any responsibility. So apparently, parents can choose to home school their children. Send them fishing for 12 years and then dump them on the welfare state - and no one would be able to do a thing about it. Brilliant. But there is more, teachers would be subject to the whims of parents in scheduling conferences and the same parents could also apparently demand which teachers teach their kids. This is not about reforming schools. It's about punishing teachers and parents. If Senator O wants schools to do better, maybe he and his colleagues should stop harassing our school system and let it go about doing its job. Every time the clowns impose the next big fix, schools have to retreat, create new administration, and improvise a new way to teach and at the same time dance to the tune of the right wing lunatic band.

tesuji
Bountiful, UT

All three of these ideas should like bad ideas to me.

Homeschoolers should have to meet a common standard.

Parents should not be billed because their kid is behind - that's the school's fault.

Schools need more money, and also need to be more accountable. I should be able to trust them to educate my kids without becomeing a teachers aid myself. When I send them to college, will I be responsible for tracking my kids homework then too?

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

" Do you see strong, or weak, patriotism in our country?"

Schools are there to teach patriotism? Almost sounds like were talking about Soviet Block schools…. make sure children properly love their country. Good grief…. We don't need our schools teaching our kids about religion, and we don't need them to be teaching them that they should have blind allegiance to country either.

That is the parents job. That is the role of community as a whole. Kids will learn this from example and experience. Not the classroom.

"See how much of science classes are on the negative effects of man on the environment"

And the last time you sat through a semester of science was when? And what percentage of that was about the negative effects of man? Please!

RedShirtCalTech
Pasedena, CA

To "Semi-Strong" or "Dave M" the same thing can be said about the public school system. I have relatives that were moved along from grade to grade without being able to read. The teachers didn't care, and said that eventually they would pick it up. Eventually the public school "graduates" them and kickes them out into the world where they have to catch up on basic skills that they should have learned.

The point is, no matter which system you go to, you can always find bad apples. What you should be asking is why is it that home schooling is growing so fast? What is turning people off from the public schools?

Ed Grady
Idaho Falls, ID

How about an extra tax on anybody in Utah with the last name of Osmond.

Midwest Mom
Soldiers Grove, WI

"At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge we'd like to make some provision for the poor and destitute..."

Sanctions on parents whose children under-perform will only get children yanked from school to be "home-schooled" in perhaps less-than ideal circumstances.

Offering cash to home-school will open the floodgates of parents keeping kids home for profit. These program ideas never end up helping the people intended for assistance.

Here in Wisconsin, vouchers were expanded across the state, even forcing them on districts where the voters and boards were not asking for them. The result? Two-thirds of those who are receiving vouchers are kids who were already enrolled in private school. So, the program that was sold on helping the poor is just another entitlement for the rich. And who pays for these vouchers? The local property taxes have to kick in the balance, while not receiving any state money. For Milwaukee, a city that truly needs more help, vouchers cost the district over $8 million dollars a year. And that's taking money away from poor and needy children. One more thing, MPS still outperforms the private and charter schools there.

worf
Mcallen, TX

@Big Momma:

There is a comparison. For example.

At our local hospital here in Texas, eighty percent of the skilled staff are from other countries.

Engineers from other countries are designing our cars transmissions, engines, etc.

In the booming, technological manufacturing area of Edison, New Jersey,--seventy percent of the population are from India, and China. Many from India, and the Philipines (sp) are taking skilled employment here. A third of our college graduates are from other countries as well.

IMO. The only way to improve our education,--is to get the feds out.

Semi-Strong
Louisville, KY

RedShirtCalTech,

The reasons I often see are that people feel their kid is getting picked on or cannot handle other social aspects. Unfortunately, the relative isolation of home schooling does nothing for this.

I understand wanting to protect them. But the world will still be there when they are 18 and need to either be working or going to school. Will they have the tools to adjust?

If they have had lots of other social interaction, sure. But many I have seen get little more than TV, their siblings, and one day a week at a church. Again, the larger group schools do a better job here. But even in those circumstances I find the groups very homogeneous with little racial or other diversity. How does that child later deal with the diversity in the real world?

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

"figure out a way to reimburse parents for each home schooled child..."

No Redshirt. Not. one. cent. Everybody pays for education. Even you. You and your ilk are always decrying spending but are the first in line with their hand out.

Aggie238
Logan, UT

How about we just eliminate child tax credits and place the financial burden of educating children more squarely on those whose children are being educated? Seems that would help parents be more invested while not placing any unfair burden on people of lower socioeconomic status.

Howard Beal
Provo, UT

If a kid is behind in school, it's the school's fault. Really? Parents have no responsibility there at all. Hmmm. Might in some cases, we might even say it was genetics as some students are born with learning disabilities? I mean all kindergarten teachers are blessed with every single student knowing how to read and write, right? I think the lack of deep thought, especially coming mostly from the Right side of the aisle, is disconcerting.

So my solution is this, let's actually fund education like we supposedly care about our children. Let's get elementary classes of 15-20 students and have secondary classes of 20-25 students. Let's give our teachers support such as aides, technology, and supplies that they need and get ALL of our students out of dilapidated buildings. Let's increase teacher pay and restore benefits and send a message they are valued, thus in a sense saying our children are valued because we value those that instruct them. I say actually try this and see if it actually works. Then maybe we can do Osmond's ideas...

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

In a civilized society when all else fails the people look to their government for help. If the government is blocked from providing the needed service, that civilized society will fail. There are no examples of a society made up of independent individuals or even individual families that has accomplished any thing more than mere existence.

A mother may be able to teach her young about proper physical survival, how to operate the tools of life and may even understand that the greatest and most important lesson of all is that which teaches How learn. If we want to have more than mere existence our education has to reach out to the limits of the universe. To get that kind of education takes the efforts of a very large set of teachers.

When we allow the greed of unscrupulous leaders to limit the education of our children, we are defeating the purpose of life.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Worf.

The reason you don’t draw the right conclusions from your example is because you seem to have a problem with analysis. The reason for the high percentage of foreign workers is not because they are better educated but simply because they cost less.

utahcitizen1
Vernal, UT

I agree with the comments about accountability in home school. I too know of several situations where the student is "homeschooled" but really is anything but homeschooled. The first person I know of was in junior high and her mother pulled her out of school to babysit and had no intention of sending her back even though she begged. She only went back to school after a year of staying home(the girl in junior high) after DCFS they mandated it to the mother. Her mother had other options that she could afford she just didn't want to pay.

The 2nd situation I know of is a family of homeschooled students that still can't read. What accountability or checking up is there that homeschool students are learning and meeting minimum learning requirements?

worf
Mcallen, TX

@Ultra Bob--not in this case.

A football team will pay higher for a good quarterback, or running back. When it comes to water boys,--they'll get the ones who can be paid less.

When it comes to engineers, they'll pay extra to get the best.

@UtahBlueDevil--you're blind if you don't see schools teaching discrimination, and contention. Most are blind to it also, but I could easily provide tons of data to make my point. And yes, many are weak patriots because of what they learn, and don't learn in school.

Parents, and the community are puppets of our school system. That's where they were taught, formed their thoughts, opinions, and grew up.

With the combination of standardized testing, and accountability, our beloved government has a strong hold on educating, and molding they're citizens.

Wish I was wrong, and crazy, but I'm the kind of person who see's thing as they are.

Don't take my word for it. The evidence is all around.

NeilT
Clearfield, UT

worf Half the country depends on the government to feed them. Really. Can you back this statement up with valid data. I seriously doubt it. Second comment. The government forcing students to be patriotic sounds like communism to me.

Big Momma
St. George, UT

@ Worf
That wasn't my point. Other countries have smart people, but they are not trying to educate every single child. The successful ones move onto high school and college. I just don't see how we compare every single one of our kids against the cream of the crop of other nations. I don't care how much money or the greatness of teachers you throw at some kids, they just aren't going to do good in school. I had friends in high school who were just plain not good at school, and nothing was going to change that. You could spend a million bucks on that one kid and they weren't going to do good in school. Socrates himself couldn't teach them. All kids are not built academically equal. Other countries that we are compared to don't standardize test these students because they are already out of the system or have never been in it. I am sorry, but my academically challenged friends wouldn't stand up against the brightest and smartest of other nations then and they won't now on standardized tests used in comparisons.

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