Comments about ‘Mike Sorensen: Despite disappointing year, Utes aren't that far from contending’

Return to article »

Published: Sunday, Dec. 1 2013 6:40 p.m. MST

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
killarney
Lincoln Park, IL

DraperUteFan

"...you have a real head scratcher on your hands with "Nebraska and Washington tried to work the established precedent by beating a lower ranked team..." Oklahoma was ranked #2 they played Washington in the at the time. Is that your idea of a "lower ranked team?"

It's you who doesn't seem to understand that playing the #2-ranked team, instead of the #1-ranked team, is playing a LOWER ranked team.

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

Uteology

"Utah was 33-6 the last three years in the MWC (All loses to AP top 25 teams)
Utah is 8-1 vs mid-majors since then (loss to a top AP 25 team)"

More cherry picking?

The Utes have only beaten ONE PAC team with a winning record in 27 games.

And calling Montana State, Northern Colorado, and Weber State "mid majors" simply demonstrates your desperate attempt to claim some sort of respectability.

Sagarin carefully evaluated BYU's and Utah's records and SOS, and here are his conclusions:

2011 #34 BYU(10-3) > #39 Utah(8-5)
2012 #26 BYU(8-5) > #61 Utah(5-7)
2013 #28 BYU(8-4) > #33 Utah(5-7)

Sagarin's rankings are generous to Utah compared to other rankings this year:

BCS - #39 BYU > #56 Utah
CBS Sports - #38 BYU > #67 Utah
USA Today - #34 BYU > #76 Utah

Across the board in every ranking BYU > Utah

Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but you're not nearly as good as you think you are.

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

Elmer Fudd

You can also count on Utah finishing with a worse record and lower ranking than BYU every year.

Winning where it matters most, in the final rankings!

DraperUteFan
Draper, UT

ND95CA and Killarney, you like so many Cougar fans are so sensitive about the national championship. BYU was chosen the consensus NC, but for you to deny that there was significant controversy at the time is to bury your head in the sand and deny reality.

Bryant Gumbel was the most outspoken and some would say obnoxious critic of the Cougar NC, but he was giving voice to what many others thought. Bottom line is a 6-5 team going into the Holiday Bowl was not the best test for BYU to prove it was the undisputed national champion. How ironic that BYU loves to crack on Utah for playing a 7-4 Pitt team in the Fiesta bowl.

Those were great BYU teams back then, no disputing that.I'm just saying the NC would have been given considerably more legitimacy had they played the very best that year. Michigan clearly was not the very best, thus BYU is often cited as one of the most disputed college football championships ever...Google it.

WON84
PLANO, TX

"Mike Sorensen: Despite disappointing year, Utes aren't that far from contending"

They're going to need to be able to stay healthy and play better on the road. They have a good home field advantage as evidenced by a win over Stanford (and a should have won against Arizona St.) but, cannot play on the road. Wilson is a good QB and with some better luck in the health department can take them somewhere.

Chris B., it is really cute when you say "we."

worf
Mcallen, TX

I knew a couple years ago, the utes wouldn't swim in the PAC 12 lake. Fans would brag on how they're such a good football team,--but I knew they would be whining from playing a harder schedule while still claiming to be superior. Have the utes found success in any sport?

Elmer Fudd
Sandy, Utah

@ Uteanymous

The only way you can have a true comparison on which team is better is if Utah and BYU played the exact same schedule. Then you can make an argument. Unfortunately for you they both play completely different schedules. Utah plays a much tougher schedule and BYU plays a much weaker schedule. So you can't compare which team is better by their schedules.

So if you really want to compare who is better, then you have to look for a common opponent between the two teams and that is each other. Utah beat BYU this year which means Utah is the better team.

Scoreboard!

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

Come on Elmer, score board is absolutely meaningless to BYU fans. Unless the win of course.

jazzer
St. George, UT

As a BYU fan, I am very jealous of the U's Pac 12 membership. We would take it if we got offered it. I think we would be doing worse then them at this point. I don't want to hear it that "we have more pac 12 wins then Utah". I think BYU is improving and we are going to continue to get better but Utah has our number.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ DraperUteFan:

As with a few other semi-possessed Ute fans, you seem to read what you want to and not what was written. In so doing, you put words in the mouths of BYU fans, just to make your rhetoric seem more plausible... though it still isn't.

I did NOT say that BYU played more big name teams this year than Utah did this year. Go back and re-read. And if you're even semi-honest, you'll do another "oops!"

I said BYU played more big name schools this year than Utah did during their BCS years. Not such a hard concept to understand. At least for most people. And since Utah has never had a strength of schedule BEFORE this year that was as tough as BYU had this year, that fact speaks for itself. And it also undermines the rest of your silly contentions.

Next time, try reading comments with your eyes open. It helps greatly in understanding others and will cut down some of your obvious feelings of desperation.

U 90
Corona, CA

Steven Jarvis,

Per Sagarin SOS through 12/1.... Utah #1, BYU #32. Sagarin is the most recognized source for SOS. Google it.

You seem to be a BYU research buff. I can't get any Y fans to answer this honest question. Has BYU ever beat 2 teams in the same year that finished the season ranked in the top 25?

On two separate occasions Utah has beat 4 ranked teams in the same season (1994 and 2008)

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ Spokane ute:

You've usually more objective than most other ultra-Ute fans. So I believe you already know that BYU can beat Virginia. They outplayed them, but lost on the scoreboard because of one dumb coaching decision. You and other honest Ute fans already know BYU would beat this year's Virginia 9 out of 10 times. Saying otherwise made it seem to only be grasping at straws. And considering the year Utah had, that's totally understandable.

That's like saying Utah couldn't beat Colorado after Colorado beat them 2 years ago with just a 1-win team. Everyone knows what an upset is, (which that was) but still tries to use them against others in their arguments. That always smacks of desperation.

BTW: When was the last time Utah ever beat Virginia?

@ Uteology:

Say what you will about BYU's schedule next year. But I absolutely guarantee you (not a Chris B type of guarantee) that Kyle would trade Bronco schedules next year in a heartbeat if given the chance. It might be the only way to save his job.

Besides that, some of those teams might be national contenders next year. You (we) have no way of knowing.

1978
Salt Lake City, UT

Come on Uteanymous, National Rankings are absolutely meaningless to Utah fans. Unless they are ranked higher of course.

DraperUteFan
Draper, UT

Worf, the Utes are already swimming in the PAC 12 lake (an odd metaphor, but whatever), and improved as evidenced by a win over Stanford. Think about it Worf, if Utah had not beaten Stanford they would be top 4 in the BCS and at least in the discussion for the NC.

Most Ute fans I know are not bragging, knowing the recent Ute squad and fan base have nothing to brag about except 4 in a row against BYU. Every post I've seen from rational Ute fans on this board are clear that we aren't happy with the results in the PAC 12 and certainly aren't bragging about the record and losses.

As for the ostensible "whining" going on, I see people posting that the competition is tougher, which I don't consider whining. Just a fact of life, and most of us are just fine with that.

What is the Cougs excuse for going 2-4 against teams with BCS affiliation? Is it because the competition was just too good or the Cougs were just that awful? Which is it?

DraperUteFan
Draper, UT

Tators, I'm glad you have coach Whit on speed dial to make guarantees you have no valid reason to make.

Bronco might like the his schedule because it is a soft road to go bowling, but that safe route will never put BYU back on the "national limelight" Cougar fans like to think of themselves on.

I couldn't disagree with you more with your coach Whit analysis. The Utes may tank in a year and they may have years where they overcome a very difficult schedule and achieve greatness.

Kyle would have a job offer in 5 minutes as a head coach or D coordinator if he were let go at Utah, so you overstate his concern about playing a tougher schedule and his potential job loss. Quite the contrary, I think he loves the challenge.

Simple question Tators, what was the Cougs record this year against teams with BCS affiliation? By my count, 2-4. Ironic how you and your fellow Cougs rip the Utes for "being close" in games, but you lost to a team who lost 8 straight in their season and try to put a silver lining on it.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ DraperUteFan:

There you go again... cherry picking your info. Your arguments are starting to seem quite silly.

Since Kyle complains about his tough schedule after every one of his conference losses, it's an easy assumption that he would love to have an easier schedule (i.e., Bronco's next year's schedule)... especially since many fans have been calling for his job. Your denial is almost comical.

BYU may've gone 2-4 against BCS teams this year. But Utah went 2-6. Most people would consider that doing worse. They even lost at home to a team that lost to a division II college team. What's your funny spin on that? You acknowledge upsets when they happen to Utah, but not to anyone else. If you are even halfway objective, you would openly admit the Virginia game was an upset. ESPN and the rest of the world recognizes that. But no way will a Ute troll.

Perhaps another reason Utah is ranked lower than BYU in literally every single national poll.

BTW: Since you continue putting words in my mouth, find one single place where I "ripped the Utes for being close in games'. You can't because I didn't.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ DraperUteFan:

Despite all your cherry picking, BYU criticizing, and continually putting words in other people's mouths, neither you or any other Ute fan has yet to explain why all the college football coaches (Coaches Poll), all the national press writers (AP Poll) and every single national ranking service (Sagarin) still have BYU ranked higher (better) than Utah, and have done so for most of the season.

One big reason is because everyone besides ultra-Ute fans look at the entire season and don't overly emphasize just a single game or two. When people do (yourself included), that's called cherry picking... something you and a few other Utes have taken to an art form. You continually talk about BYU's first game of the season, but never once give them any credit for winning 5 games in a row which included some previously unbeaten teams... even while on the road. When did Utah last win 5 games in a row?

Everyone in the college football world understands the Virginia game was an upset. Everyone except ultra-biased Ute fans.

PLEASE EXPLAIN why the entire football world, to this very day, still rates and ranks BYU better than Utah.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ DraperUteFan:

One other thing you forgot or chose to not mention...

Bronco's "soft schedule" as you call it, is considered harder (strength of schedule rankings) than 8 of the top 10 teams in the latest polls. How do you explain that?

And that same "soft schedule" is rated more difficult than any schedule Utah has every played prior to this year... ever. So what would that say for all of Utah's previous schedules? Is there anything softer than ultra-soft?

As far as next year goes, there's a reason no one has yet assigned a strength of schedule to next year's schedules. No one yet knows who will be next years national contenders. You can guess all you want, but no one yet knows. Auburn was downright lousy last year, but this year is still a contender for National Champion... having just beaten Alabama, the previous #1 team.

Though not likely, it's still possible BYU could have a higher SOS than Utah next season. No one yet knows. So why waste your time criticizing next year's schedule for anyone? Are you already making excuses in advance for the season Utah has yet to play?

PAC man
Anaheim, CA

DraperUteFan

There has been significant controversy surrounding many major college football national champion selections.

What can't be denied is the national cachet BYU built during the five preceding seasons leading up to BYU's national championship season that had already established BYU's credibility - four Top 12 finishes, including finishing #7/#7 in both polls in 1983, including road wins against two Top 15 teams.

1979 - 11-1, #13/#12 - a missed chip-shot FG against WSU cost BYU an undefeated season
1980 - 12-1, #12/#12
1981 - 11-2, #13/#11
1982 - 8-4
1983 - 11-1, #7/#7
1984 - 13-0, #1/#1
1985 - 11-3, #16/#17

BYU finished the 1984 season on a 24-game winning streak and did beat Air Force(8-4), on the road, a team that finished #24 in the final AP poll, unranked only because the AP rankings only included the Top 20 in 1984.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ DraperUteFan:

First of all, I have never once said that Kyle was not a good coach. I've always liked Kyle and was disappointed when he chose to not coach at BYU.

But are you really naive enough to think Kyle doesn't currently have any concerns for his job? And why wouldn't he... after contending for the basement of the PAC12 each year Utah has been in it... and/or having ended each of the last 3 seasons with consecutively worse conference records.... and/or not qualified for any bowl games for the last 2 years and counting?

Apparently, you don't spend time reading the comments of anyone except BYU fans. If you had, you'd know that many Ute fans have made comments about Kyle needing to be concerned for his job and guessing when he will be let go.

Kyle has never once said (or even insinuated) that he currently "loves the challenge" of his situation. That's just you once again putting words in other people's mouths... like you often do with BYU fans.

To be honest, Kyle looks and sounds quite concerned in most of his recent post-game interviews... as should he.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments