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Published: Friday, Nov. 29 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@jsf --

"Why would a resume state they are gay. "

In the Harvard study mentioned, two job resumes were sent out to prospective employers with 1700 prospective job openings. The two resumes were identical, except that one resume specifically listed experience as a treasurer in a gay college campus organization, while the other merely referred to being involved in a progressive student alliance.

Et voila -- 40% difference in interviews.

"The AMA has now identified obesity as a disease not a choice. "

"Disease" and "choice" are not mutually exclusive categories. For example, lung cancer is a disease -- but it's usually caused by the choice of smoking.

Choices have consequences. And sometimes those choices lead to disease.

"Spoken like a true bigot. "

I guess you missed the part where I very clearly indicated that I'm obese myself. I'm a realist -- not a bigot.

Speaking of choices --

I loudly applaud people like Really, wendell, Ranch, QuercusQate, and everyone else who makes the courageous choice to stand up and speak out for equal rights and their authentic selves, despite the discrimination they have to face every day of their lives. That choice makes an important difference in the real world.

jsf
Centerville, UT

"Disease" and "choice" are not mutually exclusive categories. For example, lung cancer is a disease -- but it's usually caused by the choice of smoking."

My grandfather died of lung cancer, did not smoke, my daughter who has never smoked is being monitored for lung cancer. Your argument supports those who state, gay is a choice. And they bring discrimination on them selves.

"Genetic" and "choice" are not mutually exclusive categories." Nor are they mutually inclusive.

There are those who are obese not by choice, because your obesity is by choice doesn't negate those who are not by choice. My wife is dependent on heart medication that has the main and top listed side effect of weight gain. Her heart was not damaged by choice. Yes she is discriminated against often. Your statement that they bring discrimination on themselves is the same bigotry you claim to decry regarding the LGBT.

Discrimination for any reason is wrong.

Ranch
Here, UT

@jsf;

I don't "loathe" LDS members (the majority of my family is LDS). But is really, really get tired of all the LDS holier than thou-ness displayed on these DN threads. You guys can be really sick sometimes; and the DN moderators have no problem letting LDS people say vile things about others at all.

jsf
Centerville, UT

Ranch I was not referring to you, I apologize for that inference you took. It was a statement by the person you were giving accolades to. His actual word used was "loath". Please accept my apology. I agree it does tend to get a little ideological in these postings.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@jsf --

"My grandfather died of lung cancer..."

I guess you missed that part where I specifically said "usually".

In fact, the American Lung Association reports that active smoking is the cause of 90% of all lung cancer cases.

"Your argument supports those who state, gay is a choice."

Nope. Sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Did you ever choose to be straight?

And if you insist that orientation is a choice, please present some evidence. Be specific.

"There are those who are obese not by choice"

In my earlier post I specifically stated that obesity is a choice "in most cases".

In fact, you seem to keep missing a lot of the things that I write. Perhaps you should try reading more slowly.

35% of the US population is now classified as obese. That percentage has risen alarmingly in the last few decades. I assure you that 35% of the population didn't suddenly contract some horrible disease that caused that obesity epidemic. What they did do, however, is change their diets and activity levels.

"Discrimination for any reason is wrong."

Of course it is. And anti-gay-discrimination legislation will address one target of that deplorable tendency to discriminate.

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

What kind of person refers to discrimination as a virtue? I don't understand why so many people feel a need to degrade and discriminate? I grew up Mormon. Any one of them can get in my face and say whatever they want. They know it isn't right to treat us that way, but many do it anyway! I have had a hard time, because growing up I always felt a wonderful bond to other members of the Church and I still have a hard time seeing myself as an outsider. It is too hard to be there! I have been fired and I was ridiculed. I was still active in Church and I hadn't come out. During meetings in Church, they discussed my sexuality and many horrible lies were accepted as truth. That discrimination almost killed me! To this day it haunts me and I keep hoping for a day when I can sit with friends and feel like one of them again. It will never happen! There are no words to express how it feels for the people you love to treat you like that! I would rather die than ever make somebody feel it!

Kimber
Salt Lake City, UT

Very good Emily! And I find that this is like a "skeleton in the closet" with many people. They are scared of it (but don't like to talk about it much). It's time that we do and try and make things fair for everyone in our state.

Charles S
Freedomville, AZ

As I have said before numerous times, ALL "anti-discrimination" laws should be repealed. If someone wants to discriminate against another person for whatever reason they choose, who are you to say they can not? Who are you to force someone to provide a service to someone they choose not to?

When does the victimhood end? How many special classes can we create?

If someone wants to discriminate, they will no matter what a law says. People can choose to do business with the company or not.

Society may not like discrimination but it has no business in outlawing it. Regarding many different choices in life, there is no way to outlaw stupidity.

Discrimination happens, will continue to happen and there is NOTHING that anyone can do to stop it.

ps, anyone see the update on the story about the homosexual waitress who claimed a couple stiffed her on the tip because of her behavior? In case you missed it - the story was bogus.

Contrariuserer
mid-state, TN

@Charles S --

" If someone wants to discriminate against another person for whatever reason they choose, who are you to say they can not? "

It's the Constitution that says they can not. Do the words "all men are created equal" and "Equal Protection Clause" ring any bells?

"If someone wants to discriminate, they will no matter what a law says. "

And if someone wants to commit murder, they will do so no matter what a law says. Shall we therefore repeal all murder laws?

"ps, anyone see the update on the story about the homosexual waitress who claimed a couple stiffed her on the tip because of her behavior? In case you missed it - the story was bogus."

She was one waitress riding on the coattails of other stiffed waiters. That same experience has happened to multiple others. Look up the case at a Carabba's in Kansas for just one recent example. The customers wrote "we cannot in good conscience tip you, for your homosexual lifestyle is an affront to God" on their receipt.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Machado
South Jordan, UT

1:29 p.m. Nov. 29, 2013

I'm just wondering when discrimination became the "greatest of all sins" in our society.

[Look no further than Nazi Germany - 1936-1945
The end of Ether, and the Book of Mormon -- 2 once great civiizations, destroyed by civil war => divided by; education, culture, and class.]

I can remember when discrimination was a virtue. It was an indication of education, culture, and class.

[Discrimination has NEVER been a virtue, EVER!]

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Charles S
Freedomville, AZ
As I have said before numerous times, ALL "anti-discrimination" laws should be repealed. If someone wants to discriminate against another person for whatever reason they choose, who are you to say they can not? Who are you to force someone to provide a service to someone they choose not to?

======

Who are you?
the Soup Nazi?

windsor
City, Ut

From article: "In fact, four in 10 LGBT Utahns report having faced discrimination from employers and landlords."

HOW (for the millionth time) HOW can the employers and landlords even know someone is LGBT??

Yup.

There can't be any discrimination if people keep personal details to themselves.
In some states, where they are not considered the same as everyone else, and are not appreciated, Mormons have learned to keep their religion quietly to themselves so as not to offend others and invite discrimination.

The LGBT community would be wise to take a page out of that playbook.

No one can object to, or discriminate against, something that is not broadcast.......

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

Let's be real here - none of us like the idea of working with Brenda who used to be Bob. I have had that experience and it creates a hostile work environment especially when Brenda decides to use the girls bath room and the company has to comply. Lots of women running out of the bathroom screaming. It sounds doable on paper but the implementation is the problem. It was down right creepy having to work along side Brenda - especially when I had worked with Bob for years. Everyone avoided any assignment with Brenda and for good reason. There are some things you just can't force political correctness upon and expect it to work. Normal people in the work force should have protections too!!

Ranch
Here, UT

@windsor;

Let me guess, you never, ever, ever talk about your spouse or family at work, right? Why should we be required to remain silent about our families when you don't?

Mormons keep quiet about their religion at work? Ha! What planet do you live on?

windsor
City, Ut

Yup Ranch, you got it. Don't wear a wedding ring, don't have a picture of the spouse and kids on the desk. And not one person at my work knows I'm a Mormon. Though my state on these DesNews comment boards says Utah, I have moved and am living in the Bible Belt now. Not a lot of love for Mormons here.

So I stand by my post. There is no law that we disclose many personal things about ourselves. And religion and sexual orientation are thankfully among those that we may reveal as we wish.

I would face discrimination revealing my religion.
Yet I am smart enough to figure this and and therefore do not.

LGBT's have the same choice.

wendell
provo, UT

@windsor
Are you saying I should not be allowed to talk about my spouse at work?

Recently I was called into a meeting with a Manager. It was clearly a serious issue as he had traveled from SLC. Apparently someone reported that I had an inappropriate and offensive picture in my office. I vehemently denied that this was the case, but he insisted I let him enter my office to look for himself. Of course I obliged.

He found the picture - it was a photo of myself and my spouse in Disneyland. My arm was around his shoulder, but it was not inappropriate. Nearly every worker in the office has a similar picture of their spouse on their desk.

The Manager suggested I take it home as it might make some people uncomfortable. I asked if he was going to require all workers to do the same thing with their photos.he said "no" and again asked me to take it home.

I contacted HR and shortly thereafter received an apology from the manager. He said he was wrong and that the issue had been forgotten. The picture is still on my desk and will remain there.

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

If this law passes, I am sure that no high school or college boy would ever think to say he is transgender just so he could go into the women's bathroom, or use it as an excuse when he gets caught.

(please note that the above statement is dripping with sarcasm)....

Contrariuserer
mid-state, TN

@RedWings --

"I am sure that no high school or college boy would ever think to say he is transgender just so he could go into the women's bathroom, or use it as an excuse when he gets caught."

If you seriously believe that any high school boy is going to assure the ridicule of his entire class by consistently dressing and acting like a girl just so he can switch bathrooms, then you have obviously forgotten what it's like to be in high school.

Confused
Sandy, UT

Contrarius

You might want to brush up on what the definition of "discrimination" is under the EEOC and Civil Rights act Especially here in Utah.

In Utah, a person can be fired for any reason. If the boss don't like his hair color? he can fire him without cause. Why? because we are a right to work state.

Most employment discrimination cases don't have merit because of the level of proof the EEOC requires to prove it. Is it moral? No, but it is not under the official definition of discrimination.

Why would we in Utah have "Gay rights"? There are plenty of laws on the books to protect them, just like it protect me. So why do these groups expect special treatment?

Contrariusier
mid-state, TN

@Confused --

"brush up on what the definition of "discrimination" is...."

From the EEOC: "The EEOC enforces Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964...which prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, sex, religion, and national origin; the Equal Pay Act of 1963...which prohibits sex-based wage discrimination between employees who otherwise perform substantially equal work in the same establishment; the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967...which forbids employers from discriminating against persons age 40 and over on the basis of their age; the Americans with Disabilities Act...which bars employment discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities on the basis of their disabilities; and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973...which prohibits disability discrimination in federal employment."

Further: "...employment discrimination means taking any adverse employment action against an employee because of his or her race, color, sex, religion, national origin, age or disability. An adverse action may involve any aspect of employment, including hiring, firing, promotion, pay, and all other terms or conditions of employment. "

Exactly what part do you believe I have misunderstood?

"In Utah, a person can be fired for any reason."

That's simply not true. Refer back to the EEOC statement.

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