Utah is no. 8 in the highest registered sex offender by state list. Utah is the
highest in the nation for online porn subscriptions. Google it. The Deseret
News even did an article on it March 3, 2009. Perhaps the writer should
not be so quick to slam Ms. Valentine's well founded concerns over the
opportunities for abuse this law would allow. Utah does not have a good record
when it comes to sexual abuse and desire for pornographic images. I also find
it interesting that the author mentions The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints in her letter but not the Catholic church, Greek Orthodox, Baptist, or
any other denomination that practices in Utah. Where exactly was the Latter Day
Saint church mentioned in Ms. Valentine's letter? This isn't a
religious issue, it is one for society to determine. I am not sure about the
bogeyman, but emotions should be tempered while responsible objectivity takes
precedence in this debate. Unfortunately, a society with common sense is at a
premium these days.
@Sven --"This has been the case throughout history, and it will
continue to hold true."Actually, homosexual relationships have
been accepted at many points throughout history, in many different cultures.
Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Ancient China, Polynesia, and so on all had long
traditions of homosexual acceptance.Homosexual relations will always
be in the minority, since only about 5% of the population is LGBT. But
"minority" doesn't mean "bad" or "perverted", any
more than left-handedness is bad or perverted.And no, again, nobody
wants "special" rights. Only EQUAL rights.
Whether we’re speaking about the demand for gay marriage, special rights
under the law, entrance into the BSA...etc., LGBTs are simply trying to convince
both themselves, and the population at large, that their lifestyles are normal
and healthy. Try as they might, the majority of the population will never find
the LGBT lifestyle normal. No matter how many laws are passed and
how desperately they try and ignore reality, the LGBT lifestyle will never be
considered normal. This has been the case throughout history, and it will
continue to hold true.
@Confused --"There are only a few states that have rights for
the "Gays" community."Right. That's why we're
having this discussion about anti-discrimination legislation in the first place.
the Senate recently passed Federal anti-gay-discrimination legislation, but so
far the House has refused to consider it."Second, in Utah, yes
they can fire for any reason."Again, nope.Title 34A
Utah Labor CodeChapter 5 Utah AntiDiscrimination ActSection 106 Discriminatory or prohibited employment practices 34A-5-106. Discriminatory or prohibited employment practices -- Permitted
practices. (1) It is a discriminatory or prohibited
employment practice to take any action described in Subsections (1)(a) through
(f). (a) (i) An employer may not refuse to hire, promote,
discharge, demote, or terminate any person, or to retaliate against, harass, or
discriminate in matters of compensation or in terms, privileges, and conditions
of employment against any person otherwise qualified, because of:
(A) race; (B) color; (C)
sex; (D) pregnancy, childbirth, or pregnancy-related
conditions; (E) age, if the individual is 40 years of age
or older; (F) religion; (G)
national origin; or (H) disability.
Contrariusier,I know what the EEOC states, I worked in the
anti-discrimination division for 12 years....There are only a few
states that have rights for the "Gays" community. The majority of the
states do not. Gender is Female/Male period... Second, in Utah, yes
they can fire for any reason. They do not need to mention one of the six
protected classes. but they can fire a person for having tattoos because it is
bad for their business.To prove that they fired you on one of the
protected classes, is extremely difficult, unless you have documentation to back
@Confused --"brush up on what the definition of
"discrimination" is...."From the EEOC: "The EEOC
enforces Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964...which prohibits employment
discrimination on the basis of race, color, sex, religion, and national origin;
the Equal Pay Act of 1963...which prohibits sex-based wage discrimination
between employees who otherwise perform substantially equal work in the same
establishment; the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967...which forbids
employers from discriminating against persons age 40 and over on the basis of
their age; the Americans with Disabilities Act...which bars employment
discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities on the basis of
their disabilities; and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973...which prohibits
disability discrimination in federal employment."Further:
"...employment discrimination means taking any adverse employment action
against an employee because of his or her race, color, sex, religion, national
origin, age or disability. An adverse action may involve any aspect of
employment, including hiring, firing, promotion, pay, and all other terms or
conditions of employment. "Exactly what part do you believe I
have misunderstood?"In Utah, a person can be fired for any
reason."That's simply not true. Refer back to the EEOC
ContrariusYou might want to brush up on what the definition of
"discrimination" is under the EEOC and Civil Rights act Especially here
in Utah.In Utah, a person can be fired for any reason. If the boss
don't like his hair color? he can fire him without cause. Why? because we
are a right to work state.Most employment discrimination cases
don't have merit because of the level of proof the EEOC requires to prove
it. Is it moral? No, but it is not under the official definition of
discrimination.Why would we in Utah have "Gay rights"? There
are plenty of laws on the books to protect them, just like it protect me. So why
do these groups expect special treatment?
@RedWings --"I am sure that no high school or college boy would
ever think to say he is transgender just so he could go into the women's
bathroom, or use it as an excuse when he gets caught."If you
seriously believe that any high school boy is going to assure the ridicule of
his entire class by consistently dressing and acting like a girl just so he can
switch bathrooms, then you have obviously forgotten what it's like to be in
If this law passes, I am sure that no high school or college boy would ever
think to say he is transgender just so he could go into the women's
bathroom, or use it as an excuse when he gets caught.(please note
that the above statement is dripping with sarcasm)....
@windsorAre you saying I should not be allowed to talk about my spouse at
work?Recently I was called into a meeting with a Manager. It was
clearly a serious issue as he had traveled from SLC. Apparently someone reported
that I had an inappropriate and offensive picture in my office. I vehemently
denied that this was the case, but he insisted I let him enter my office to look
for himself. Of course I obliged.He found the picture - it was a
photo of myself and my spouse in Disneyland. My arm was around his shoulder,
but it was not inappropriate. Nearly every worker in the office has a similar
picture of their spouse on their desk. The Manager suggested I take
it home as it might make some people uncomfortable. I asked if he was going to
require all workers to do the same thing with their photos.he said "no"
and again asked me to take it home. I contacted HR and shortly
thereafter received an apology from the manager. He said he was wrong and that
the issue had been forgotten. The picture is still on my desk and will remain
Yup Ranch, you got it. Don't wear a wedding ring, don't have a picture
of the spouse and kids on the desk. And not one person at my work knows I'm
a Mormon. Though my state on these DesNews comment boards says Utah, I have
moved and am living in the Bible Belt now. Not a lot of love for Mormons here.
So I stand by my post. There is no law that we disclose many
personal things about ourselves. And religion and sexual orientation are
thankfully among those that we may reveal as we wish.I would face
discrimination revealing my religion. Yet I am smart enough to figure this
and and therefore do not.LGBT's have the same choice.
@windsor;Let me guess, you never, ever, ever talk about your spouse
or family at work, right? Why should we be required to remain silent about our
families when you don't?Mormons keep quiet about their religion
at work? Ha! What planet do you live on?
Let's be real here - none of us like the idea of working with Brenda who
used to be Bob. I have had that experience and it creates a hostile work
environment especially when Brenda decides to use the girls bath room and the
company has to comply. Lots of women running out of the bathroom screaming. It
sounds doable on paper but the implementation is the problem. It was down right
creepy having to work along side Brenda - especially when I had worked with Bob
for years. Everyone avoided any assignment with Brenda and for good reason.
There are some things you just can't force political correctness upon and
expect it to work. Normal people in the work force should have protections too!!
From article: "In fact, four in 10 LGBT Utahns report having faced
discrimination from employers and landlords."HOW (for the
millionth time) HOW can the employers and landlords even know someone is LGBT??
Yup. There can't be any discrimination if people
keep personal details to themselves. In some states, where they are not
considered the same as everyone else, and are not appreciated, Mormons have
learned to keep their religion quietly to themselves so as not to offend others
and invite discrimination.The LGBT community would be wise to take a
page out of that playbook. No one can object to, or discriminate
against, something that is not broadcast.......
Charles SFreedomville, AZAs I have said before numerous times, ALL
"anti-discrimination" laws should be repealed. If someone wants to
discriminate against another person for whatever reason they choose, who are you
to say they can not? Who are you to force someone to provide a service to
someone they choose not to?====== Who are you?the
MachadoSouth Jordan, UT1:29 p.m. Nov. 29, 2013I'm just wondering when discrimination became the "greatest of all
sins" in our society.[Look no further than Nazi Germany -
1936-1945 The end of Ether, and the Book of Mormon -- 2 once great
civiizations, destroyed by civil war => divided by; education, culture, and
class.]I can remember when discrimination was a virtue. It was an
indication of education, culture, and class.[Discrimination has
NEVER been a virtue, EVER!]
@Charles S --" If someone wants to discriminate against another
person for whatever reason they choose, who are you to say they can not?
"It's the Constitution that says they can not. Do the words
"all men are created equal" and "Equal Protection Clause" ring
any bells?"If someone wants to discriminate, they will no matter
what a law says. "And if someone wants to commit murder, they
will do so no matter what a law says. Shall we therefore repeal all murder
laws?"ps, anyone see the update on the story about the
homosexual waitress who claimed a couple stiffed her on the tip because of her
behavior? In case you missed it - the story was bogus."She was
one waitress riding on the coattails of other stiffed waiters. That same
experience has happened to multiple others. Look up the case at a Carabba's
in Kansas for just one recent example. The customers wrote "we cannot in
good conscience tip you, for your homosexual lifestyle is an affront to God"
on their receipt.
As I have said before numerous times, ALL "anti-discrimination" laws
should be repealed. If someone wants to discriminate against another person for
whatever reason they choose, who are you to say they can not? Who are you to
force someone to provide a service to someone they choose not to?When does the victimhood end? How many special classes can we create?If someone wants to discriminate, they will no matter what a law says. People
can choose to do business with the company or not. Society may not
like discrimination but it has no business in outlawing it. Regarding many
different choices in life, there is no way to outlaw stupidity. Discrimination happens, will continue to happen and there is NOTHING that
anyone can do to stop it.ps, anyone see the update on the story
about the homosexual waitress who claimed a couple stiffed her on the tip
because of her behavior? In case you missed it - the story was bogus.
Very good Emily! And I find that this is like a "skeleton in the closet"
with many people. They are scared of it (but don't like to talk about it
much). It's time that we do and try and make things fair for everyone in
What kind of person refers to discrimination as a virtue? I don't
understand why so many people feel a need to degrade and discriminate? I grew up
Mormon. Any one of them can get in my face and say whatever they want. They know
it isn't right to treat us that way, but many do it anyway! I have had a
hard time, because growing up I always felt a wonderful bond to other members of
the Church and I still have a hard time seeing myself as an outsider. It is too
hard to be there! I have been fired and I was ridiculed. I was still active in
Church and I hadn't come out. During meetings in Church, they discussed my
sexuality and many horrible lies were accepted as truth. That discrimination
almost killed me! To this day it haunts me and I keep hoping for a day when I
can sit with friends and feel like one of them again. It will never happen!
There are no words to express how it feels for the people you love to treat you
like that! I would rather die than ever make somebody feel it!
@jsf --"My grandfather died of lung cancer..."I
guess you missed that part where I specifically said "usually". In fact, the American Lung Association reports that active smoking is
the cause of 90% of all lung cancer cases."Your argument
supports those who state, gay is a choice."Nope. Sexual
orientation is NOT a choice. Did you ever choose to be straight?And
if you insist that orientation is a choice, please present some evidence. Be
specific."There are those who are obese not by choice"In my earlier post I specifically stated that obesity is a choice
"in most cases".In fact, you seem to keep missing a lot of
the things that I write. Perhaps you should try reading more slowly.35% of the US population is now classified as obese. That percentage has risen
alarmingly in the last few decades. I assure you that 35% of the population
didn't suddenly contract some horrible disease that caused that obesity
epidemic. What they did do, however, is change their diets and activity
levels."Discrimination for any reason is wrong."Of course it is. And anti-gay-discrimination legislation will address one
target of that deplorable tendency to discriminate.
Ranch I was not referring to you, I apologize for that inference you took. It
was a statement by the person you were giving accolades to. His actual word used
was "loath". Please accept my apology. I agree it does tend to get a
little ideological in these postings.
@jsf;I don't "loathe" LDS members (the majority of my
family is LDS). But is really, really get tired of all the LDS holier than
thou-ness displayed on these DN threads. You guys can be really sick sometimes;
and the DN moderators have no problem letting LDS people say vile things about
others at all.
"Disease" and "choice" are not mutually exclusive categories.
For example, lung cancer is a disease -- but it's usually caused by the
choice of smoking."My grandfather died of lung cancer, did not
smoke, my daughter who has never smoked is being monitored for lung cancer.
Your argument supports those who state, gay is a choice. And they bring
discrimination on them selves."Genetic" and "choice"
are not mutually exclusive categories." Nor are they mutually inclusive.There are those who are obese not by choice, because your obesity is by
choice doesn't negate those who are not by choice. My wife is dependent on
heart medication that has the main and top listed side effect of weight gain.
Her heart was not damaged by choice. Yes she is discriminated against often.
Your statement that they bring discrimination on themselves is the same bigotry
you claim to decry regarding the LGBT. Discrimination for any reason
@jsf --"Why would a resume state they are gay. "In the Harvard study mentioned, two job resumes were sent out to prospective
employers with 1700 prospective job openings. The two resumes were identical,
except that one resume specifically listed experience as a treasurer in a gay
college campus organization, while the other merely referred to being involved
in a progressive student alliance.Et voila -- 40% difference in
interviews."The AMA has now identified obesity as a disease not
a choice. ""Disease" and "choice" are not
mutually exclusive categories. For example, lung cancer is a disease -- but
it's usually caused by the choice of smoking. Choices have
consequences. And sometimes those choices lead to disease."Spoken like a true bigot. "I guess you missed the part
where I very clearly indicated that I'm obese myself. I'm a realist --
not a bigot.Speaking of choices --I loudly applaud
people like Really, wendell, Ranch, QuercusQate, and everyone else who makes the
courageous choice to stand up and speak out for equal rights and their authentic
selves, despite the discrimination they have to face every day of their lives.
That choice makes an important difference in the real world.
“men whose resumes indicate that they’re gay are 40% less likely to
be called in for job interviews.” Why would a resume state
they are gay. Is that a new job qualification? “There is no
comparison between obesity and homosexuality. So most obese people have little
to complain about, except themselves, if they get discriminated
against.”The AMA has now identified obesity as a disease not a
choice. Have little to complain about, except themselves. Spoken like a true
bigot. @Ranch @LDS Liberal; There are some like you who are decent
people though; keep it up, you buck the stereotypical Mormon imageDo
realize back in June he said he loathed members of the church. Seams he just
chooses a different group to hate.
@Really???;I understand completely what you've been through as
I also went through it myself. When you finally pray to accept yourself as you
are, a good person with a different sexual orientation, the guilt and shame will
go away. Honest.@Monsieur le prof:"...I imagine
most landlords are interested more with making money and protecting their
investment than trying to determine gender proclivities."As a
gay man, I can assure you that I always paid my rent on time, in full, back in
the day when I was a tenant. My landlord loved me and hated to see me move when
I bought my first home.@Badgerb;I have two accounts
because I use two computers and had problems with the account when I used the
same one on both computers.@LDS Liberal;I certainly
didn't feel "loved and wanted" in the LDS church. The constant
negative preaching by the likes of (certain leaders who shall remain nameless)
ruined any hope of ever returning. There are some like you who are decent
people though; keep it up, you buck the stereotypical Mormon image.
As far as discimination goes, Maybe some of you don't see the need for
additional protection for the gay community, but I find it very sad that my
employer can walk into my office any time he wants and say the following,
"Wendell, You are fired because you are gay". I'm quite sure it
wouldn't happen, but he could legally do exactly that, and I would have no
@ReallyI understand. I spent nearly 40 years pretending to be
something I am not. On the instruction I received from my LDS leaders, I got
married and had 5 amazing children. However, after 20 years of "faking
it", I came to the realization that there were only 2 options to explain why
God did not fix me as my church leaders (including a high-ranking LDS apostle)
assured me he would - Either God is not who he claims to be or God doesn't
think being gay is something that needs to be fixed. I was told to
get married, live a straight lifestyle, and NEVER tell my wife I am gay. The
instruction was poor, but I do not believe the church was lying to me - I
believe they were sincere in their advice. Luckily they no longer give this
instruction.Anyway...I have left the church, accepted my sexuality,
and have been recently legally married to the most wonderful man on the earth.
What I did is not the right choice for everyone, but I have never been happier,
and for the first time in my life, I can honestly say I know God loves me just
the way I am.
@Really???;I understand completely what you've been through as
I also went through it myself. When you finally pray to accept yourself as you
are, a good person with a different sexual orientation, the guilt and shame will
go away. Honest. It really does get better.@Monsieur le prof:"...I imagine most landlords are interested more with making money
and protecting their investment than trying to determine gender
proclivities."As a gay man, I can assure you that I always paid
my rent on time, in full, back in the day when I was a tenant. My landlord
loved me and hated to see me move when I bought my first home.@Badgerb;I have two accounts because I use two computers and had
problems with the account when I used the same one on both computers.@LDS Liberal;I certainly didn't feel "loved and
wanted" in the LDS church. The constant negative preaching by the likes of
DHO & BKP ruined any hope of ever returning. There are some like you who
are decent people though; keep it up, you buck the stereotypical Mormon image.
I find it humorous that the same people that claim the LGBT community are always
looking to be offended and looking for special rights are the same people that
constantly flood these threads on the DN whenever they think there has been the
smallest slight to their religion and seek for ever more expansive rights to
push their religious freedoms well beyond the church doors.
@Stalwart Sentinel 10:36 a.m. Dec. 1, 2013 Really??? - I assume you
are LDS, like me, and, while I am not gay, there is an increasing number of
active members who are willing to stand next to you and fight against the LGBT
stereotypes and discrimination that are perpetrated by society in Utah. . . ------------------You're right. My husband, sons, an I
are all stalwart LDS, an we have ought against the LGBT stereotypes an
discrimination, and or their civil rights, for over 30 years. When I was
practicing law, I did a lot of pro bono work for people with AIDS. Stay tough,
Really, and others like you. You are not alone.
Really?Your story resembles those of other oppressed groups who
found that even going above and beyond wasn't enough. I know there are
many other of our LDS LGBT brothers and sisters who have similar stories.
Sadly, bigotry is not confined just to UT Mormons or otherwise but can be found
many places. (Although many places I've lived, a predominant number of
LDS members had roots in UT, ID, or attended/graduated from BYU) When I hear it
i try to confront it. I think your story is very important and valuable. Maybe
it will prompt some readers here to dig a little deeper and move beyond their
ignorance. I'm glad you shared it with us, and I am sorry so many of us
seem to have totally missed the Gospel as taught by Jesus.
Really??? Kearns, UT======== Hang in there
good brother.We need you.We ALL need you.You are
loved AND wanted in the Church.The Gospel of Jesus Christ tells us
that we are all like passengers on the Titanic.We are ALL doomed.The Savior made it into the first life boat, and started pulling others
into the boat with him.He then commanded them, to do likewise...Starting pulling everyone you can into the lifeboats....NO respecter of
persons.He'll judge us all LATER, but for now...Keep fishing your fellow men out of the water!As Latter-Day
Saints, we should all know this.Sadly, most still do not get
it.~Peace, Love, out.
Really??? - I assume you are LDS, like me, and, while I am not gay, there is an
increasing number of active members who are willing to stand next to you and
fight against the LGBT stereotypes and discrimination that are perpetrated by
society in Utah; it is very unfortunate that fellow Church members are the
predominant factor in such a community but time is on our side and your kindness
can be the most powerful tool in turning their hearts. Stay strong.
Monsieur le prof: "Do they wear signs advertising their sexual
orientations? ...I imagine most landlords are interested more with making money
and protecting their investment than trying to determine gender
proclivities."Signs are unnecessary and landlords (and
employers) don't have to ask. They can make inferences. Is an applicant
wearing a wedding ring? Straight. Two men looking at a one bedroom apartment?
Could be gay. Got a family photo on the desk with wife and kids? Straight.
Avoids referring to a significant other by name or with gender-specific
pronouns? Gay.Monsieur le prof: "Were I a landlord, I would
want my tenants to be reliable, trustworthy, financially stable and unlikely to
skip out without paying."As a landlord myself, I have sometimes
toyed with placing an ad for "gays only" because gays tend to be more
financially stable than the general population (fewer kids, among other things)
and (if you subscribe to the stereotypes) take care of property better.Monsieur le prof: "...so sensitive that any slight is blown out of
proportion"Easy to say from a position of privilege and
advantage. Try some empathy. Look up "invisible backpacks."
I was also assaulted this past summer while jogging in my neighborhood park. I
reported it to the police. While being questioned, the officer asked why I
thought I was attacked. All I said was "I don't know." The truth is
I did know, but I didn't want it to get out to the public. The man called
me a bigoted slur that I cannot nor will not repeat on this forum. He let me
know why he chose to hit me.The shame I get from reading so many
attitudes I see expressed here in this newspaper kept me from being honest about
the reasons for the crime. What's to stop this man from hurting somebody
else for the same reason.On a positive note, I have been employed
with an organization that protects ALL employees from workplace discrimination
for eight years now. I have been promoted and experienced a pleasant working
conditions. I am very happy there. It's too bad so many companies
don't see the value in protecting everyone.
I don't think many of you on here really understand how lonely it can get
when people like me choose to live up to your expectations. While you may have
experienced discrimination in some form--and I am sorry you have--you cannot
discount what it's like to be gay in a community that demands so much
conformity. It's hard.I live in the suburbs, and I really only
have one family on my street who will talk with me on a regular basis. They are
a wonderful family, and I am grateful for their kindness. Why don't the
other neighbors stop by and talk when I am out working in the yard? I have made
the efforts, but they just don't want to get to know their single (gay)
Regardless of that, I was always overlooked for promotions and put in the pool
of employees to be let go when layoffs loomed. One supervisor told me I was
taken out of consideration for a promotion because I was single, but her tone
and facial expressions told me more. She was truly sorry that her managers
wouldn't allow me to move up in the company.I am still active
in my church, and it's a lonely life. A few years ago I tried to stop
pretending that I would change. That meant no more dating women and giving them
the false idea that something more than just friendship would happen between us.
I still haven't announced to anyone that I am gay, but some in my circle of
friends have figured it out, and they have stopped associating with me.
Okay, I have to chime in, and I have to admit something that I have never
mentioned on these boards. I am gay. It's a private matter that I have kept
to myself, a few close friends, and some family members. I don't parade
around, wave rainbow flags, kiss, or hold hands in public. I have been
conditioned to be ashamed of who I am, even after hundreds--probably
thousands--of hours of prayer and pleading to help me change this part of me.Since graduating college, I have had six different jobs. At each of
those jobs, I always received excellent evaluations from my supervisors. I would
always get to work early and stay a little bit longer than was expected. I
volunteered for extra responsibilities, and I implemented innovative practices
that streamlined the work.
@Monsieur --"How did these people know they were being
discriminated against?"When a person is beaten -- sometimes to
death -- on a city street while their attacker yells homophobic slurs at them,
the reason is pretty obvious (multiple occurrences).When a
much-loved college women's soccer coach is fired immediately after telling
her team that her female partner is pregnant, the reason is pretty obvious
(Belmont University, Nashville).When two women with stable jobs in a
small Utah town are both fired soon after rumors start circulating that they are
lesbians, the reason is pretty obvious (QuercusQate, a poster here on the DN
site).When a waiter is denied a tip at a restaurant, and the
customer writes on the receipt "we cannot in good conscience tip you, for
your homosexual lifestyle is an affront to God", the reason is pretty
obvious (Carabba's, Kansas).When a transsexual woman is forced
to remove her makeup and loudly ridiculed by state employees before she is
allowed to obtain an official state ID, the reason is pretty obvious (SLC
Driver's License office).These sorts of things happen all the
time. Pretending that they don't won't change the facts.
Monsieur le prof-So nicely said! Contra- It
is clear you only see a narrow view of the issue of discrimination, and refuse
to consider others who are also discriminated against. The vast majority of
Americans are discriminated against at some point in their life, for some reason
such as the ones I included in my first post. It is not unique to your
characteristics.The laws already protect you equally. If the laws
aren't being sufficiently enforced, more specially written laws won't
change that. LPS (as I don't have multiple accounts)
There are many in this community who are easily offended and so sensitive that
any slight is blown out of proportion and blamed on discrimination. How did
these people know they were being discriminated against? Do they wear signs
advertising their sexual orientations? Were I a landlord, I would want my
tenants to be reliable, trustworthy, financially stable and unlikely to skip out
without paying. I imagine most landlords are interested more with making money
and protecting their investment than trying to determine gender proclivities.
@Badgerbadger --"It is already illegal to beat or kill HBT
people...."Anti-discrimination legislation adds weight to the
concepts of equality and equal protection, which reverberates across many crimes
-- including violent hate crimes. Remember lynchings? They were
already illegal well before the Civil Rights Act, too. "Fat
people suffer discrimination at much higher rates than LGTB."Who
says? If you believe so, prove it. Please provide some specific evidence."That is the bigger problem. "Nope. Once again --
choice. And again, very few people are beaten, killed, or thrown out of their
homes by their parents just for being fat."...obesity is a
genetic disorder. "Nope. A *propensity* towards obesity can be
genetic, just as a propensity towards alcoholism can be. And, in some cases,
obesity is truly medically unavoidable. But in most cases, obesity is a matter
of choosing to eat too much and exercise too little."....laws
designed to address it have not helped abate it."Of course they
have. To claim otherwise is just silly. No law can magically prevent ALL
discrimination, but laws do provide powerful tools with which to fight it."More special rights laws are not the answer. "Nobody wants "special" rights. Only equal ones.
It is already illegal to beat or kill HBT people. They don't need a special
law. They are already covered, so take that non-issue off the table.Fat people suffer discrimination at much higher rates than LGTB. That is the
bigger problem. And there is ever mounting evidence that obesity is a genetic
disorder. But again I remind you that discrimination is rampant
against all classifications of people, and the laws designed to address it have
not helped abate it. More special rights laws are not the answer. Try being nice. That helps sometimes, not always, but sometimes.
@Badgerbadger --"35.9% of American adults are obese. "Ahhhh, now you have given up on race, gender, religion, and disability,
and you're left with only the poor discriminated-against obese to worry
about?You've made a lot of progress already. ;-)As
for obesity: guess what -- I'm obese myself. And the fact is that, in most
cases, obesity is a choice. I myself lost over 100 pounds about 10 years ago,
because I chose to -- and I'm obese now, because I choose to not put the
effort into being otherwise. So most obese people have little to complain about,
except themselves, if they get discriminated against.In contrast,
sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Did you ever "choose" to be
straight? No, of course not. And neither do gay peopleThere is no
comparison between obesity and homosexuality."Surely the bigger
problem (no pun intended) should be the top priority."Yes. And
guess what again: gay people in this country are still 8 times more likely to be
the victims of violent crimes than straight people. They are beaten and killed
regularly, not to mention constantly denied opportunities, simply because of
their orientation. And that kind of mistreatment IS the "bigger
As a Latter-day Saint, and also as a registered Republican, I feel a statewide
law protecting the LGBT community from discrimination, identical to the law
passed in Salt Lake City, is totally okay with me.Why?1.
I find nothing in this law that would hinder freedom of speech, religion, press
or assembly. 2. I don't see how this law gives anyone a
"special" right. I have several friends who are gay or lesbian and if
they want to in an aprtment or townhouse in a city live like Murray or
Taylorsville, who am I to say No to that? 3. If there were indeed
situations in which men were putting on dresses so they could go into bathrooms
and assault women, where are the news accounts of this happening? I'm sure
if there were even two or three of these type of these crimes, Drudge Report or
Fox News would be on it in a heartbeat. I admit I don't like
the idea of government passing silly laws like what type of soda I can drink,
but clearly this is a problem and it should be addressed, so I say YES to this
this statewide anti-discrimination law.
Contra - 35.9% of American adults are obese. They are discriminated
against everywhere and in every way!!! Particularly in employment. Yet there is
no law to protect them from such discrimination. Surely the bigger
problem (no pun intended) should be the top priority.As far as the
ADA, and the civil rights acts, yes they exist, and the discrimination goes on
anyway. In some cases the DISCRIMINATION IS CAUSED by the civil rights laws. You might be putting too much faith in your government to fix those who
are cruel. So far all they have done is transfer who is the recipient of the
cruel people. It seems to me (and many others) that your group seeks not to end
misdeeds, but to transfer recipients yet again.
How precious. What a country we live in, where one group can complain about the
majority living their life, but in the next breath the group has no problem with
forcing their morality on the majority. We have plenty of civil rights laws in
this country, we don't need special rights for certain segments of society.
In a country of freedom, we don't need to micro manage every segment of
peoples lives. If we want to remove all freedoms, we could get rid of drug
dealers, rapists, and thieves tomorrow!!
Let's look to our Republican leadership…'Republican
Debate Audience Boos Gay Soldier Stephen Hill After DADT Repeal Question' -
By Jason Linkins - Huffington Post - 09/23/11**Gays GREATEST THREAT
TO AMERICA, Buttars says' - By Aaron Falk - DSnews - 02/19/09I
see no reason to support a political party that not only refuses to take action
against, clear and evident discrimination to LGBT Americans…but seems to actually participate, in it.Buttars election in 2000,
2004 and 2008. on a Republican ticket, in Utah. WWJD?
'In short, I'm sick of the self-righteous intolerance of the LGBT
community.' 'Study: Gay Men Offered Fewer Job
Interviews' - By Winston Gieseke - The Advocate - 10/04/11
'According to a study published today in the American Journal of Sociology,
men whose resumes indicate that they’re gay are 40% less likely to be
called in for job interviews, especially in the south or Midwest.' –
article And then… Safety of gay people topic of
Salt Lake discussion' - By Jennifer Dobner - AP - Published by DSNews
– 07/14/10 'The high-profile incidents — from the
2008 beating of a South Salt Lake man in his home by angry neighbors, to an
alleged April assault of two men at a Salt Lake City pub, and reaction when a
gay couple kissed on the Mormon church's Main Street Plaza in 2009 —
has left many in the gay community feeling vulnerable, center Executive Director
Valerie Larabee said.' WWJD?
Sal: " Leave out the bathroom stuff...."Sven: "... to decide
on a whim what bathroom to use."I've heard the bathroom
argument several times from different quarters in the past few weeks, often in
reference to some vaguely unspecified law that would open up women's rooms
to any man in a dress. I don't recall this coming up when SLC debated the
nondiscrimination ordinance. What is the source of this meme? It strikes me as
a desperate effort to find some argument that will find traction in a country
that generally supports GLBT rights. Bathrooms, the last refuge of a scoundrel,
I guess. It reminds me of the Equal Rights Amendment days, when opponents
argued that it would mandate unisex toilets. Fearmongering in the loo.No transperson "decides on a whim" his or her gender any more than a
cisperson does. To even suggest such a thing betrays a remarkable lack of
knowledge of their condition.Sven: "please provide specific
examples of LGBTs who've been fired from their jobs..."Your
turn. Having raised the bathroom issue, please provide examples of fraudulent
crossdressing to gain access to opposite sex bathrooms for voyeurism or
@Badgerbadger --"Wow will our legislators be busy writing
special rights laws for all those people!!!"Actually, for those
groups who actually HAVE experienced such high levels of discrimination, such
laws already exist. It's called the Civil Rights Act -- and the Americans
with Disabilities Act -- and other associated anti-discrimination legislation.
It protects those groups which have experienced discrimination, including the
characteristics you mentioned such as religion, disability, race, and gender.There is currently NO such protection for LGBT people.
When was discrimination a "virtue"? Does the scripture say,
"Whatever you do to the least of these my brethren, you do it unto them, and
keep right on doing it"?
4 in 10 people have experienced discrimination in employment, college access, or
housing if:They are maleThey are femaleThey are WhiteThey are BlackThey are BrownThey are MormonThey are
CatholicThey are Protestant They are JewishThey are from
another part of the countryThey are from another part of the worldBecause they were locally raised and not diverse enoughThey are
singleThey are married with childrenAnd 9 of 10 people have
experienced discrimination if:They are not good lookingThey
are fatThey have a disabilityWow will our legislators be busy
writing special rights laws for all those people!!!
Superb letter. Thanks for writing.
"I'm just wondering when discrimination became the "greatest of all
sins" in our society."What part of, "All men created
equal" do you not understand? If we cannot treat everyone as
equals and must discriminate others, then what the heck is our government worth?
Lets just abolish our government, get rid of the Bill of Rights, and live in
caves like in Afghanistan. Lets discriminate and hate based on sexuality,
gender, race, and religion.
@Sven --"Emily, please provide specific examples... "We've had specific, first person accounts right here in the DN
comments section, on previous articles.Here's a few additional
random examples of anti-gay discrimination in Utah from a quick google
search.2011 -- a transgendered woman in SLC was forced to remove her
makeup and loudly ridiculed by Dept of Transportation employees before she was
allowed to obtain a state ID card. Notably it was not the transgendered woman
who made the complaint, but an unassociated bystander who happened to witness
the mistreatment.2009 -- **42 percent** of the homeless youths
served at the Salt Lake City Homeless Youth Resource Center identified as LGBT.
Many of them had run away or been cast away from homes where they were not
accepted after they came out.Utah law decrees that single gay
people, but NOT committed gay couples, can adopt children in Utah.2008 -- a gay couple in SLC living next door to a family were accused of
kidnapping when the family's children wandered over to their home during a
party. The couple was viciously beaten with a frying pan, a flat screen TV, and
other implements by the partygoers.
I'm just wondering when discrimination became the "greatest of all
sins" in our society. Have we really become so filled with lust that
immorality is now a minor sin (if it is a sin at all) and discrimination is
egregiously bad. I can remember when discrimination was a virtue. It was an
indication of education, culture, and class.Despite what some people
want us to believe there is still a difference between good and bad, tasteful
and tasteless, pure and tainted, sweet and fetid, Bedford Falls and
Pottersville.Not being hindered by your blindness, I can clearly see
the differences. Ironically, my ability to see bothers you so you want to force
me to be as blind as you are. In short, I'm sick of the self-righteous
intolerance of the LGBT community.
No Emily, Ms. Valentine's argument isn't ridiculous at all. She
specifically pointed out that there is "no official process by which a
person declares their gender identity..." Only LGBT activists wouldn't
see a problem with allowing those who don't know what their sexual identity
is, to decide on a whim what bathroom to use. You don't want LGBTs to be
uncomfortable, but have no problem with others being made to feel
uncomfortable.Emily, please provide specific examples of LGBTs
who've been fired from their jobs, or evicted from their homes based on
their sexual preference? Sadly, the LGBT activists live in the "ends
justify the means" world. Looks like new details are coming out in the
Matthew Shepard murder, which was the catalyst for the need for special rights
for Gays. It appears his death may have been over drugs, and not his sexual
orientation, as was originally touted. It also looks like the Gay NJ waitress
(Danya Morales) was lying about the anti-gay note she said she received from the
couple eating at the restaurant where she works.
Agreed.And thanks for making the point about the LDS Church's
endorsement, and the State Republicans refusal to comply.I
support the LDS Church's position, and soundly reject the Utah State
Perhaps you are exaggerating about an army of men in girls' bathrooms. One
perverted man would be bad enough. And he could enter at will claiming he is a
female.So pass a law protecting housing and employment only. Leave
out the bathroom stuff. If you look like a man, stay out of women's
bathrooms and vice versa.
"the fear for gay and transgender Utahns is real. In fact, four in 10 LGBT
Utahns report having faced discrimination from employers and landlords.
It’s past time we amend existing Utah law to include sexual orientation
and gender identity alongside religion, age, race, color, sex, pregnancy,
national origin and disability."Great comments!
Awesome letter, Emily. You nailed it. Thank you.
Agreed.The Attitude of the LDS leadership is at odds with many of
it's members.The quorum of the 12 has an entire website
directed to the LGBT members to - 'Stay With Us'.and yet,
many members are still hurling stones at them.This is a Utah
Mormon cultural homophobia bigotry thing, and NOT an LDS Church thing.