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Published: Friday, Nov. 29 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

It is already illegal to beat or kill HBT people. They don't need a special law. They are already covered, so take that non-issue off the table.

Fat people suffer discrimination at much higher rates than LGTB. That is the bigger problem. And there is ever mounting evidence that obesity is a genetic disorder.

But again I remind you that discrimination is rampant against all classifications of people, and the laws designed to address it have not helped abate it. More special rights laws are not the answer.

Try being nice. That helps sometimes, not always, but sometimes.

Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

@Badgerbadger --

"It is already illegal to beat or kill HBT people...."

Anti-discrimination legislation adds weight to the concepts of equality and equal protection, which reverberates across many crimes -- including violent hate crimes.

Remember lynchings? They were already illegal well before the Civil Rights Act, too.

"Fat people suffer discrimination at much higher rates than LGTB."

Who says? If you believe so, prove it. Please provide some specific evidence.

"That is the bigger problem. "

Nope. Once again -- choice. And again, very few people are beaten, killed, or thrown out of their homes by their parents just for being fat.

"...obesity is a genetic disorder. "

Nope. A *propensity* towards obesity can be genetic, just as a propensity towards alcoholism can be. And, in some cases, obesity is truly medically unavoidable. But in most cases, obesity is a matter of choosing to eat too much and exercise too little.

"....laws designed to address it have not helped abate it."

Of course they have. To claim otherwise is just silly. No law can magically prevent ALL discrimination, but laws do provide powerful tools with which to fight it.

"More special rights laws are not the answer. "

Nobody wants "special" rights. Only equal ones.

Monsieur le prof
Sandy, UT

There are many in this community who are easily offended and so sensitive that any slight is blown out of proportion and blamed on discrimination. How did these people know they were being discriminated against? Do they wear signs advertising their sexual orientations? Were I a landlord, I would want my tenants to be reliable, trustworthy, financially stable and unlikely to skip out without paying. I imagine most landlords are interested more with making money and protecting their investment than trying to determine gender proclivities.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Monsieur le prof-

So nicely said!

Contra-

It is clear you only see a narrow view of the issue of discrimination, and refuse to consider others who are also discriminated against. The vast majority of Americans are discriminated against at some point in their life, for some reason such as the ones I included in my first post. It is not unique to your characteristics.

The laws already protect you equally. If the laws aren't being sufficiently enforced, more specially written laws won't change that.

LPS (as I don't have multiple accounts)

Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

@Monsieur --

"How did these people know they were being discriminated against?"

When a person is beaten -- sometimes to death -- on a city street while their attacker yells homophobic slurs at them, the reason is pretty obvious (multiple occurrences).

When a much-loved college women's soccer coach is fired immediately after telling her team that her female partner is pregnant, the reason is pretty obvious (Belmont University, Nashville).

When two women with stable jobs in a small Utah town are both fired soon after rumors start circulating that they are lesbians, the reason is pretty obvious (QuercusQate, a poster here on the DN site).

When a waiter is denied a tip at a restaurant, and the customer writes on the receipt "we cannot in good conscience tip you, for your homosexual lifestyle is an affront to God", the reason is pretty obvious (Carabba's, Kansas).

When a transsexual woman is forced to remove her makeup and loudly ridiculed by state employees before she is allowed to obtain an official state ID, the reason is pretty obvious (SLC Driver's License office).

These sorts of things happen all the time. Pretending that they don't won't change the facts.

Really???
Kearns, UT

Okay, I have to chime in, and I have to admit something that I have never mentioned on these boards. I am gay. It's a private matter that I have kept to myself, a few close friends, and some family members. I don't parade around, wave rainbow flags, kiss, or hold hands in public. I have been conditioned to be ashamed of who I am, even after hundreds--probably thousands--of hours of prayer and pleading to help me change this part of me.

Since graduating college, I have had six different jobs. At each of those jobs, I always received excellent evaluations from my supervisors. I would always get to work early and stay a little bit longer than was expected. I volunteered for extra responsibilities, and I implemented innovative practices that streamlined the work.

Really???
Kearns, UT

Regardless of that, I was always overlooked for promotions and put in the pool of employees to be let go when layoffs loomed. One supervisor told me I was taken out of consideration for a promotion because I was single, but her tone and facial expressions told me more. She was truly sorry that her managers wouldn't allow me to move up in the company.

I am still active in my church, and it's a lonely life. A few years ago I tried to stop pretending that I would change. That meant no more dating women and giving them the false idea that something more than just friendship would happen between us. I still haven't announced to anyone that I am gay, but some in my circle of friends have figured it out, and they have stopped associating with me.

Really???
Kearns, UT

I don't think many of you on here really understand how lonely it can get when people like me choose to live up to your expectations. While you may have experienced discrimination in some form--and I am sorry you have--you cannot discount what it's like to be gay in a community that demands so much conformity. It's hard.

I live in the suburbs, and I really only have one family on my street who will talk with me on a regular basis. They are a wonderful family, and I am grateful for their kindness. Why don't the other neighbors stop by and talk when I am out working in the yard? I have made the efforts, but they just don't want to get to know their single (gay) neighbor.

Really???
Kearns, UT

I was also assaulted this past summer while jogging in my neighborhood park. I reported it to the police. While being questioned, the officer asked why I thought I was attacked. All I said was "I don't know." The truth is I did know, but I didn't want it to get out to the public. The man called me a bigoted slur that I cannot nor will not repeat on this forum. He let me know why he chose to hit me.

The shame I get from reading so many attitudes I see expressed here in this newspaper kept me from being honest about the reasons for the crime. What's to stop this man from hurting somebody else for the same reason.

On a positive note, I have been employed with an organization that protects ALL employees from workplace discrimination for eight years now. I have been promoted and experienced a pleasant working conditions. I am very happy there. It's too bad so many companies don't see the value in protecting everyone.

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Monsieur le prof: "Do they wear signs advertising their sexual orientations? ...I imagine most landlords are interested more with making money and protecting their investment than trying to determine gender proclivities."

Signs are unnecessary and landlords (and employers) don't have to ask. They can make inferences. Is an applicant wearing a wedding ring? Straight. Two men looking at a one bedroom apartment? Could be gay. Got a family photo on the desk with wife and kids? Straight. Avoids referring to a significant other by name or with gender-specific pronouns? Gay.

Monsieur le prof: "Were I a landlord, I would want my tenants to be reliable, trustworthy, financially stable and unlikely to skip out without paying."

As a landlord myself, I have sometimes toyed with placing an ad for "gays only" because gays tend to be more financially stable than the general population (fewer kids, among other things) and (if you subscribe to the stereotypes) take care of property better.

Monsieur le prof: "...so sensitive that any slight is blown out of proportion"

Easy to say from a position of privilege and advantage. Try some empathy. Look up "invisible backpacks."

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

Really??? - I assume you are LDS, like me, and, while I am not gay, there is an increasing number of active members who are willing to stand next to you and fight against the LGBT stereotypes and discrimination that are perpetrated by society in Utah; it is very unfortunate that fellow Church members are the predominant factor in such a community but time is on our side and your kindness can be the most powerful tool in turning their hearts.

Stay strong.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Really???

Kearns, UT

========

Hang in there good brother.

We need you.
We ALL need you.

You are loved AND wanted in the Church.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ tells us that we are all like passengers on the Titanic.
We are ALL doomed.

The Savior made it into the first life boat,
and started pulling others into the boat with him.
He then commanded them, to do likewise...
Starting pulling everyone you can into the lifeboats....
NO respecter of persons.

He'll judge us all LATER,
but for now...
Keep fishing your fellow men out of the water!

As Latter-Day Saints,
we should all know this.

Sadly, most still do not get it.

~Peace, Love, out.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Really?

Your story resembles those of other oppressed groups who found that even going above and beyond wasn't enough. I know there are many other of our LDS LGBT brothers and sisters who have similar stories. Sadly, bigotry is not confined just to UT Mormons or otherwise but can be found many places. (Although many places I've lived, a predominant number of LDS members had roots in UT, ID, or attended/graduated from BYU) When I hear it i try to confront it. I think your story is very important and valuable. Maybe it will prompt some readers here to dig a little deeper and move beyond their ignorance. I'm glad you shared it with us, and I am sorry so many of us seem to have totally missed the Gospel as taught by Jesus.

Furry1993
Ogden, UT

@Stalwart Sentinel 10:36 a.m. Dec. 1, 2013

Really??? - I assume you are LDS, like me, and, while I am not gay, there is an increasing number of active members who are willing to stand next to you and fight against the LGBT stereotypes and discrimination that are perpetrated by society in Utah. . .

------------------

You're right. My husband, sons, an I are all stalwart LDS, an we have ought against the LGBT stereotypes an discrimination, and or their civil rights, for over 30 years. When I was practicing law, I did a lot of pro bono work for people with AIDS. Stay tough, Really, and others like you. You are not alone.

spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

I find it humorous that the same people that claim the LGBT community are always looking to be offended and looking for special rights are the same people that constantly flood these threads on the DN whenever they think there has been the smallest slight to their religion and seek for ever more expansive rights to push their religious freedoms well beyond the church doors.

Ranch
Here, UT

@Really???;

I understand completely what you've been through as I also went through it myself. When you finally pray to accept yourself as you are, a good person with a different sexual orientation, the guilt and shame will go away. Honest. It really does get better.

@Monsieur le prof:

"...I imagine most landlords are interested more with making money and protecting their investment than trying to determine gender proclivities."

As a gay man, I can assure you that I always paid my rent on time, in full, back in the day when I was a tenant. My landlord loved me and hated to see me move when I bought my first home.

@Badgerb;

I have two accounts because I use two computers and had problems with the account when I used the same one on both computers.

@LDS Liberal;

I certainly didn't feel "loved and wanted" in the LDS church. The constant negative preaching by the likes of DHO & BKP ruined any hope of ever returning. There are some like you who are decent people though; keep it up, you buck the stereotypical Mormon image.

wendell
provo, UT

@Really

I understand. I spent nearly 40 years pretending to be something I am not. On the instruction I received from my LDS leaders, I got married and had 5 amazing children. However, after 20 years of "faking it", I came to the realization that there were only 2 options to explain why God did not fix me as my church leaders (including a high-ranking LDS apostle) assured me he would - Either God is not who he claims to be or God doesn't think being gay is something that needs to be fixed.

I was told to get married, live a straight lifestyle, and NEVER tell my wife I am gay. The instruction was poor, but I do not believe the church was lying to me - I believe they were sincere in their advice. Luckily they no longer give this instruction.

Anyway...I have left the church, accepted my sexuality, and have been recently legally married to the most wonderful man on the earth. What I did is not the right choice for everyone, but I have never been happier, and for the first time in my life, I can honestly say I know God loves me just the way I am.

wendell
provo, UT

As far as discimination goes, Maybe some of you don't see the need for additional protection for the gay community, but I find it very sad that my employer can walk into my office any time he wants and say the following, "Wendell, You are fired because you are gay". I'm quite sure it wouldn't happen, but he could legally do exactly that, and I would have no viable recourse.

Ranch
Here, UT

@Really???;

I understand completely what you've been through as I also went through it myself. When you finally pray to accept yourself as you are, a good person with a different sexual orientation, the guilt and shame will go away. Honest.

@Monsieur le prof:

"...I imagine most landlords are interested more with making money and protecting their investment than trying to determine gender proclivities."

As a gay man, I can assure you that I always paid my rent on time, in full, back in the day when I was a tenant. My landlord loved me and hated to see me move when I bought my first home.

@Badgerb;

I have two accounts because I use two computers and had problems with the account when I used the same one on both computers.

@LDS Liberal;

I certainly didn't feel "loved and wanted" in the LDS church. The constant negative preaching by the likes of (certain leaders who shall remain nameless) ruined any hope of ever returning. There are some like you who are decent people though; keep it up, you buck the stereotypical Mormon image.

jsf
Centerville, UT

“men whose resumes indicate that they’re gay are 40% less likely to be called in for job interviews.”

Why would a resume state they are gay. Is that a new job qualification?

“There is no comparison between obesity and homosexuality. So most obese people have little to complain about, except themselves, if they get discriminated against.”

The AMA has now identified obesity as a disease not a choice. Have little to complain about, except themselves. Spoken like a true bigot.

@Ranch @LDS Liberal; There are some like you who are decent people though; keep it up, you buck the stereotypical Mormon image

Do realize back in June he said he loathed members of the church. Seams he just chooses a different group to hate.

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