@Stalwart SentinelBe careful on you logic train there. If we follow
Kipling's Law of the Jungle, the two reason to kill are to Eat or to
prevent from being Eaten. Wildlife will kill for the sake of staying alive. If
a prey animal can kill it's predator, that animal dies and rots.So if you feel that Hunters should have the same risks as the animals they
hunt, then by your logic they should be allowed to kill those who threaten them.
I don't think organizations like PETA want that. Of course, your hoping
for cold blooded murder more than actual hunting right? Cause the death threats
couldn't be limited to other sites. We better make sure they made them
@Flashback: so agency means there is no standard of morality, only human laws?
Whatever is legal is justified?Samson's lion roaring against
him seems a case of self-defense rather than trophy hunting, and besides,
choosing Samson as your exemplar and moral compass is a really bad idea.@MemoFromADemo: use is not the criterion. Prudent use according to
necessity for survival is the criterion. Trophy hunting is neither necessary nor
a prudent use of resources. Instead it is killing for the delight of killing and
for the opportunity to boast, which the prophets have consistently denounced
both as an abuse of Creation and as likely to desensitize many of our other
moral sensibilities.@Lledrav: attitude is important, but attempting
to be thankful as we use God's gifts in ways that contravene bounds the
Lord has set will not justify us.JoCo Ute is closer to the right
idea. He recognizes a distinction between ethical and unethical hunting and uses
hunting as a means to provide for needs. If done prudently (sustainably) and
sparingly, this can be OK from a gospel standpoint. (Average American meat
consumption levels are anything but sparing, and are devastating the
Little known is the fact at the animal shelter operated by PETA at their main
headquarters in Virginia Beach – PETA kills almost all of the 2000
unfortunate pets taken in every year! How hypocritical is that?Also
– animal rights groups have been infiltrated in various areas of the
country and the observations include three constants found among the people
making up these animal rights groups. 1 – They are highly
emotional people -- essentially ruled by their emotions to the point of being
emotionally unbalanced. Their opinions are formed by their emotions rather than
by their intellect – even by the most intelligent of them.2
– A large percentage of them are considered mentally ill.3
– At the root of the animal rights philosophy is a deep, human
Hey Prodicus, last time I looked people have agency. So if they want to hunt
animals in Africa, and it's legal, I don't see the problem. I
don't recall Spencer W. Kimball saying "Thou shalt not hunt and your
eternal exaultation is at risk if you do." My reading of the scriptures
says that Sampson killed a lion for no reason than it was there. I personally
wouldn't go to South Africa and hunt animals. I'd take pictures.
But, I don't begrudge anyone that does.Anyone wonder why PETA
is listed as a terrorist organization by the USDA. Death threats are just plain
not right. I'd say, and I'm judging now (remember that the Book of
Mormon allows me to), that threatening to kill someone is a way greater sin than
shooting a lion for sport.
Trophy hunting fir lions is only acceptable if you go out with just a knife.
It is pretty telling that people who are outraged at killing animals are so
totally in support of killing people.Are PETA and their supporters
also anti capital punishment? I assume they think we should never kill people
who have killed people...and yet, the act of killing animals results in death
threats against people?How ludicrous and hypocritical can a group of
Two thoughts: One) Anyone who tries to use the religious card to
say that killing animals is not of God, isn't reading their scriptures.
There is no sin to kill animals as long as the animal is being used for food and
for raiment. I suspect that every morsel of meat from the lion that was killed
was harvested and gratefully used by the native people. Two) In
the African countries where hunting wild game is permitted, the wild animals
herds are numerous and healthy throughout the many hunting preserves. The
preserve owners carefully regulate the preserves and patrol to ensure against
poachers. In the African countries where hunting and harvesting of wild game is
illegal, the numbers of wild game throughout the country are far fewer because
the governments of those countries are far less effective at managing their
herds and guarding against poachers.
The issue here is not hunting. It is making death threats against people. Some
support hunting, some don't. But death threats against people are always
wrong and usually hurt your own cause, whether those death threats are against
hunters you don't like, religions you don't like, politicians you
don't like, nationalities you don't like, practices you don't
like, or whatever. Civilized people discuss their differences. Criminals make
@OldSalt94"I like that, we shouldn't blame PETA for something
that there is no evidence they or it's members were involved....yet the NRA
is blamed for every gun death."and two wrongs make a right? I
really hope you are not sharing this reasoning with your children.
to Prodicus As with many things its how its done and whether or not Gods
hand is acknowledged that determines if its right or wrong. Many good LDS
leaders and people have been hunters, including Wilford Woodruff and Thomas
Monson. I personally have learned that God definitely acknowledges
our appreciation for his creatures and He appreciates our thankfulness for them
even as we use them. ....the fullness of the earth is yours, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air,all things which come of the
earth, are made for the benefit and the use of man, both to please the eye and
to gladden the heart;Now go enjoy your turkey and thank God for it
and for the person who killed it for you.
Lions are not endangered. They are HIGHLY protected because without them, the
game preserves would collapse. And they're a "randy" species
capable of prodigious population growth. Find another excuse to get emotionally
overwrought about those mean old hunters.
I like that, we shouldn't blame PETA for something that there is no
evidence they or it's members were involved....yet the NRA is blamed for
every gun death. I wonder what our country would look like if we allowed
all animals to flourish in their natural habitat. How many cities would be
limited in size to protect those same habitats. Would we encourage population
control of human life so animals can be more important. Every thing is important
to life on earth. We were put here to be stewards over our resources, be they
air, mineral or organic. We will always have differences in how that is to be
managed. I however would hate to have a nest of infectious insects living in my
home, or rodents filled with infectious disease. Same with other "game"
animals. How many times have I heard the railing about the mess left after large
flocks of geese have landed in parks and now we can't recreate there
because of the goose droppings. And we complain when the cities hire crews to
clean it up because we don't want more government workers, then volunteer
and clean it yourselves. Take responsibility.
so I find it a bit silly that you all wish to blame PETA for something that
there is no evidence that PETA or its members were a part of. I also find it
really suspicious that the organization leveling the charges is "hunters
against PETA." this whole thing (if you will pardon the pun) smells fishy.
I don't like that she is killing what is probably an endangered species for
a trophy kill but I also say death threats against her are way over the top.
I can't wait until I get to hunt an African Lion, it is on my hunting
bucket list for sure.
killing for trophies is sick.
A deer dies from a hunters bullet. A deer dies of starvation during a rough
winter. I will take the first. Nature is cruel. Animals kill animals to
survive. It is the world we live in. Yes we can be cruel to animals. I abhor
that. PETA should leave ethical hunters alone. Time to go fishing.
The double-standard is on the side of hunters; they hunt but expect not to be
hunted. If they act like animals, ought they not meet the same fate?
It appears we have two issues here. One is the propensity to post everything we
do onto social media for all the world to see. This alone invites comment from
acquaintances and strangers. It should be no surprise that some comments are
critical because of the wide audience and varied opinions.Another is
that there are a cabal of people out there who will threaten or employ violence
to further their cause as they see themselves as a cut above the rest of society
and it is their right or duty to set the norms or standards for all of us. It
is a variation on the theme of "...it belongeth to us, the elder bretheren
to rule this people."Hunting is legal, it brings revenue into
the state to help manage wildlife habitat, and is necessary as we have
diminished or removed natural predators from the scene. As to those
who quote scripture to defend their point, I would suggest we let the author of
all scripture judge the actions of those who some deem to be in violation.Today I am PETA. I am a Person Eating A Tasty Animal. Buen provecho a
What a lame statement by the PETA representative. It took all of her efforts to
offer a diluted "condemnation" of violence to all living beings, but
still couldn't manage to disguise that she agrees with the threats and
condemnation. All debate about hunting aside, any such threats such as putting a
gun to someone's mouth and shooting it, and making serious enough threats
to cause a family to move should be investigated and prosecuted. More than
hunting could ever be, this type of behavior is contemptible, reprehensible, and
Hemlock. . . it was an African lion that Ms. Bachman shot not a Mountain Lion.
Anyone or any group supporting "Trophy" hunting should be challenged,
but certainly not threatened. As a life long hunter who looks forward to a
freezer full of venison every year I totally support consumptive hunting. If
the critter has a nice rack or skin after it's eaten that's a
bonus.But killing for no purpose other than killing, is what gives
the rest of us a bad name. Extremists at PETA are way out of line in their
condemnation of all hunting. Come on Mr.Fackrell let's not
give them anymore reasons to attack hunters. To them we are all alike. Take a
minute and take a hard ethical look at trophy hunting and realize it is not
There is never an excuse for intimidation and bullying, especially death
threats.The name of the organization is Hunters Against PETA. Are
they against the protection and ethical treatment of animals? They post pictures
on Twitter and Facebook, already knowing that there is going to be an outcry.
Why not enjoy their sport within the hunting community? It has plenty of
magazines, tv shows, web sites, and blogs. There's 2 sides to this story.
Lion's are a rather sordid beast. Brutal to the inth degree. A male lion as
king of the pride seeks out all male cubs and kills them without mercy. They are
also supremely chauvanistic and let the females do all of the work. Then, when
the kill is made, they stride in and have their fill. As to hunting
them... good luck. That's a tough kill. Expensive too employing many
locals. Watch your back. I trust the good people of South Africa, Kenya and
Tanzania to manage their wild life herds and only allow a small percentage to be
harvested, always maintaining the econsystem that is of great value to the
locals. And that lady who killed the lion -- that took some... Brave
Have we so soon forgotten the counsel of Joseph F. Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith,
and Spencer W. Kimball on the question of hunting? And how can we continue to
rationalize away the clear instruction in the Word of Wisdom to only eat meat
sparingly and according to necessity?In the KSL comments on this
news, people harped on exaggerations regarding wildlife management. It's
absurd that so many people think hunters are the key to the ecosystem, the only
thing that keeps nature working.Large mammals, both predators and
prey, were doing just fine for millions of years before any humans were around
to apply their oh so marvelous wildlife management abilities. Predator and prey
populations are self-correcting dynamical systems. Portraying hunting as
wildlife management is in essence a ruse to make people feel good, even
self-righteous, about their deadly hobby.I'm no fan of PETA-
their absolutism and their tactics are appalling. But the contempt for the
creation of God that has settled into our culture is just as appalling. Zion
cannot be built up on such principles; it must be built on principles of
stewardship of, love and respect for, and humble cooperation with nature.
While I am in awe at the mountain lion's majesty, the irony of PETA
advocating life while also threatening life is not missed. But, it is
consistent with PETA's other basic contradictions.
Yet another reason that PETA is ridiculous.