plyxply "Unfortunately while they have now "arrived" nobody respects
them (Utah) as much as they did when they were winning games in the Mtn West.
Funny how that happens.Wow. Short memory. Utah had to be the only
undefeated team to bust the BCS, then they were given a non-ranked Big East team
and still no respect from the national media. This was the Alex Smith team!It was not until AFTER the 'Bama game that Utah got national attention
since they finished with better record and stats all around than BCS Champion
Florida. Winning games in the Mtn West did not gain respect.You are right,
Utah is still riding respect nation wide, but it's not from the PAC-12;
it's from their own history.
If I were a Ute fan, I wouldn't regret the move either, for the same reason
I think that it was good for BYU to go independent. It is harder, but better
long term for both. I don't mind the hard work. It is more satisfying to
@BlueHuskey"Speaking as a Washington and Oregon State alum, I
did not welcome Utah to the PAC12"You mean no one asked if it
was okay if Utah was invited? How dare they!!
Desnews chats are so funny. Everyone on here thinks they know so much about
football and conferences when in all reality, we don't. We don't know
what goes on. People are always bringing up stats and facts when they are not
even comparable. I could spend 2 solid hours a day on these BYU, Utah articles.
Thanks for the entertainment, much needed!
Last comment:"Fair question. As a Ute fan it has been hard
watching my team have it's lunch eaten most weeks. My answer to the
question: Yes and no. I do miss having 8, 9, 10 win seasons with the occasional
undefeated season. It was fun!! I don't miss seeing Wyoming, New Mexico,
CSU but enjoy watching the USCs, Oregons, and Stanfords of the world come to SLC
almost every year. However if things don't turn around and we can't at
least become partially competitive ( 4 or 5 conference wins) it'll be hard
to be a fan. I'm a diehard and will always watch them and cheer them on,
win or lose, but it'd be nice if they could right this PAC ship. I'd
rather not my team be Washington State's replacement as the whipping
boy."This sums it up well. Let's hope we can replace Whit
and right the ship.
"I personally think that time will show that going to the PAC-12 was a huge
mistake. Recruiting will be harder due to losing seasons, fans will quit going,
heck 25 years ago Utah couldn't draw 20k fans because they always lost.
This lack of fan support will return. It's the team, win/loss and to some
degree, SOS that ultimately matters, not the conference itself."Pains me to say it, as I was excited about the PAC 12 (we have finally
arrived!! We will be a national powerhouse!!), but I think the above comment hit
the nail on the head.
I hate to say this, but yes. The Mountain West was more fun...unless your
definition of fun was watching "big time" programs like Washington State
and Arizona beat you year in and year out and thank you for taking away their
status as the "bottom feeders" of the conference. We were
relevant nationally in the Mountain West. I thought we were on our way to
building a nationally-recognized program. Instead, we remain a regional team,
with a limited national following (if one exists at all). 8-18 in
conference play? 1-7 so far this year (our THIRD YEAR IN)?How can
you honestly say it is more fun to watch our team lose winnable games week in
and week out? I don't see that light at the end of the tunnel either. Whit needs to go.
BlueHusky "Speaking as a Washington and Oregon State alum, I did not welcome
Utah to the PAC12 and their fan's exaggerated joy at the
"promotion" has now seen the reality."Oregon State would
not be bowling without Utah and Colorado. With the exception of CAL, the
expansion tide raised the winning record of the PAC-10 teams.
Utah has achieved what many schools, particularly in the MWC would give their
firstborn for: Just being in the PAC12. It took Arizona St. and Arizona many
years to become significant in the PAC10 and now PAC12. They certainly are,
now. It is Colorado and Utah's turn to be insignificant, for a while, but
they will recruit and win. I was at the UCLAand Stanford games this year. Was
blown away in beating Stanford, and nearly UCLA, both highly ranked. Was and at
the UCLA a few years back when we beat them badly. Becoming significant will
happen...but it certainly won't happen if you are not there...get my drift?
@ BlueHuskyBetween 2004 and 2009 UW was an embarrassment. Yous guys
seemed to have recovered. Why can't Utah do the same after only two down
years. Further, the Huskies have only won ONE bowl game since 2001. Utah has
that many since joining the PAC.
I'd rather be winning the MWC and seeing my team in a bowl game than losing
nearly every game in the PAC12. I might be in the minority but I want my team
to win games. There is no joy in losing just because the teams we lose to are
Speaking as a BYU fan, no way would I want BYU to go back to MWC. They are
improving and will continue to get better. I like the national scope of their
program.Speaking as a Washington and Oregon State alum, I did not
welcome Utah to the PAC12 and their fan's exaggerated joy at the
"promotion" has now seen the reality. Utah, in my opinion, will never be
a top half team in the PAC12. Sorry. You'll be good once in a while, but
you'll get used to losing to USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon and Washington, to
say nothing of AZ and ASU. You'll be there with OSU, WSU, and Colorado most
of the time. Bowl games will be occasional not frequent. Rose Bowl? Probably not
in my lifetime.That will be OK. I don't think WSU would jump to
the MWC. Neither will Utah.And BYU will do just fine, thank you very
I've heard the references to Arizona so much on this thread, I think we
need an acronym and a name called the AA - Arizona Argument. Moving to the PAC
12 has been pretty darn good for Arizona basketball and the football team has
had some very successful seasons (apparently some forgot Desert Storm).ASU just won the south and has had some very competitive teams over the years.
They have underachieved, but are still good and get to bowl games. Has BYU
been any better than either Arizona team?Bottom line is I don't
see either of them backing out of the PAC just because they aren't getting
to and winning the Rose Bowl.Last time I checked, BYU hadn't
been to a BCS Bowl game yet, so does that mean you should ditch Independence?Some people love the security blanket of an 8-4 season and any bowl game
compared with stepping up the level of competition, thereby making your program
better even though it is tough going. The tally is in and nearly
every Ute fan on this board favors staying in the PAC and a large number of
Cougar fans vote it down. Interesting...
CougarSunDevilPhoenix, AZI'm getting really, really dizzy
from all the spin.If you were being recruited by PAC 12 schools, why
would you choose freezing Utah over Southern California or Arizona? You
wouldn't. That is the difference between Utah/Colorado and the rest of the
PAC.----------I don't know but how about factors
such as academics, playing time, relationship with coaching staff, and
facilities since they all ranked hire then weather according to Forbes magazine.
Recruiting Talent (average P12 rankings over 3 years):#1
USC#4 Washington#7 Utah#9 Arizona#12 Washington State
BYU’s recruiting over same period compared to PAC-12
“bottom feeder”: 2013: #63 … equal to #12 P12
Colorado overall 692012: #60 … equal to #12 P12 Washington State
overall 502011: #66 … equal to #12 P12 Arizona overall 70
I like the Arizona/Arizona State reference. Both teams left the WAC and what
have they done since? The Utes will never be more than a second tier team in
the Pac 10. Since there are as many fans in Salt Lake County that cheer for the
Y (maybe more), they ought to burn down that sign on I-15 that says "Now
Entering PAC 12 Country". I certainly don't consider Salt Lake County
to be PAC 12 Country. They ought to move that sign to the corner of 4th South
and 14th East. It fits there.
Ya you can't get anymore selfish that wanting your fans to be able to watch
your games, just terrible. BYU should have stayed in the MWC so one team other
than Boise could be said to care about their football program with at least
enough fan support to put 30,000 in the seats. Selfish is wanting to prevent BYU
from playing before their distant fans and fans on TV, playing a national
schedule to match their national following. The MWC really stinks, with very
weak TV markets and fans that just don't care. If they did, the
"crowds" would at least average 25,000. UNLV in the best year in many
years had less than 12,000 paying fans per game. Can any of the teams that go
bowling sell their allotments, or will the league take a huge hit financially?
When polled, Utah fans voted 102 for the PAC-12 and 1 for returning to the
MWC.Mr. Robinson, can't wait for the follow-up article
regarding BYU fans when questioned about Independence or MWC!
An honest question: Why do Ute fans think that Utah will someday win the PAC-12
and get into a BCS game? I love the state, but wonder how Utah will
recruit better than Oregon, OSU, Wash, USC, UCLA, Stanford, ASU and UA? A
recruit here and there, but, honestly, have better athletes? What about Utah and
the program would attract a recruit here rather than there? BYU has
the same problem but a more limited pool yet a larger pool because of the built
in affinity (not guaranteed at all) for the LDS players. Why would someone come
here over there?BYU being independent is better than being in the
crumby MWC, but, Utah's reputation that was so sterling and growing is
diminishing. And losing close games will grow old for any fan base.
In reality, the best thing for both schools is to create the
following conference (if it can get agreement and can get anything approaching a
decent TV contract): UofU, U of Colorado, BYU, USU, Boise St. SDSU, Fresno St.,
SJSU, UNLV and Reno. Mountain 10. Won't happen. Money isn't there.
Egos are. So... BYU will limp along and Utah will be mired.
4 in a row!Why so much hate? Don't see the hate in my post.
Just a legitimate question. Why would a recruit turn down a warm weather climate
to play in a cold weather one. Instead of pinning me as a hater, you could have
said "for a chance to play" or "because some people like to ski
instead of surf." You know, a legitimate question and answer. Why the PAC 12
references? I guess I'm lost on that one. I thought Utah was in the PAC 12.
Or I could say, like so many others, that it's the PAC 10.2, or the PAC 11
and u. But silly me to show an inch of respect. Maybe this shows that Utah
isn't ready for the big time and the article is right to suggest that they
go back to the MWC.
The Utes are now riding the coattails of their PAC 12 counterparts. They
could've never garnered the respect the PAC 12 brings just being Utah.
They had to have the others to bring the perception of their program up.
Unfortunately while they have now "arrived" nobody respects them as much
as they did when they were winning games in the Mtn West. Funny how that
Had I been given the choice of BYU's independence as it is currently
working and going back to the days of the Mountain West, I'd stay right
where we are.That said, if BYU could be part of a Mountain West
Conference that allowed all BYU games to be broadcast that weren't picked
up by their channels (whatever they are now), then I'd jump back to the MWC
in a minute. Four years ago, I was able to watch 6-7 football games
and a dozen or so basketball games every year. Today I can see every football
and every basketball game BYU plays.
By the way, several commentators saying 9 SEC teams are not bowl eligible are
WRONG. You must have been looking at Conf record instead of overall. There are
currently 9 SEC teams that ARE bowl eligible (out of 14 teams). The only teams
out this year are Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas and Miss St depends on
their rivalry game tonight to get to 6 wins.
Re: Retired Cougar SunDevilCU is the 1990 national champion. There were teamates from warm wheather communities that played on that
team. Why so much hate and Pac-12 references all the time? You don't have
to answer, we already know.
"Shawnm750 "people like to compare Utah to Arizona or ASU,
but neither of those teams were true standouts before their integration into the
PAC."Surely you gest, or are a history revisionist. ASU at the
time of leaving the WAC for the Pac8 was dominating the WAC, much like BYU did
after they left. The legendary Frank Kush was their coach. They had won the
Fiesta Bowl and were ranked #2 in the country. The Fiesta Bowl was created to
highlight ASU. That is why when BYU won the WAC in '74, beating ASU and
earning an invitation to the Fiesta Bowl with QB Gary Sheide was so significant
to the beginning of LaVell Edwards career. UofA road the coattails of ASU into
the Pac8 as a travel partner and to balance the league. Had ASU and UofA stayed
in the WAC, there would have been some great rivalries with BYU, as BYU was on
the rise with Coach Edwards and Coach Frank Arnold in basketball. To draw a
comparison between Utah and ASU if very fair. When ASU joined the Pac8, they
were, at the least and perhaps more dominant and accomplished than Utah when UT
joined the Pac10.
Going into the PAC was a no brainer for Utah. BYU would love to have that
opportunity. The reason that Utah gets no respect from PAC 12 schools is not
just their football and basketball teams are poor, it is their other sports are
much worse (except gymnastics) than their football team when compared to the PAC
12. BYU has a rich tradition in the Olympic sport that is well-known around the
country. In men's and women's cross-country, track and field, soccer,
mens and womens volleyball, BYU would be at the top of the PAC 12 in most years.
Utah on the other hand is so far behind they will never garner much respect in
the PAC 12.
Actually, it is all about $money$. The PAC12 has meant tons of money for Utes
whether they win or lose. And prestige. Being in the PAC12 league itself
actually means more than winning. This is evident in the above comments!No one has mentioned that Utah will not have bragging rights for Whit
the next two years because he and Hill refused to put the Y on their schedule.
With no Y win next year, what will the excuse be when they have another losing
season, I wonder? (BTW, I wish we never had to play them again. The stupid
rivalry is over as far as I am concerned. Too much ugliness on both sides.)Loyal Y fan here! Go Cougars!
Yeah poor UA & ASU. Since joining the PAC they have won several national
titles in various sports. They should have stayed in the WAC according to the
author of this article.How dare they! Utah should have refused the
money and not join the PAC.Should BYU have refused the money from ESPN and
go independent?Yes, I do think sometimes how better the MWC would be
had they both remained there. A new TV deal might have happened sooner as a
I'm getting really, really dizzy from all the spin. If you were
being recruited by PAC 12 schools, why would you choose freezing Utah over
Southern California or Arizona? You wouldn't. That is the difference
between Utah/Colorado and the rest of the PAC.
Ifel Of'a-sofaAlpine, Utahthe mighty pac 12... if the 4 team
playoff were to happen this year, they would not even have a team involved.________BYU would not be involved either.
I love all the Ute fans talking about doormats in the WAC and MWC. During a
stretch of nearly 30 years beginning in 1974, Utah was a doormat in this
conferences and never one an outright WAC championship, and only a few in MWC.
For decades in my lifetime, the doormat WAS Utah and Air Force, Colorado St or
San Diego St all had good runs and rankings. Utah had a great run in 2004 and
2008, but that was the anomaly, not the rule for the past 40 years. I cheered
for Utah when they had those great years, but I despise them now - they're
like annoying "nouveau riche" who have to brag about how wealthy they
are and how big their house (Pac12) is... And yet they still play in a little
pathetic stadium seating 45,000 (only upsized because of 2002 Olympics).
Let's put this conversation on hold for 10 years after a decade of losing
to see how much fun Utah is having.
"Do Utes, fans yearn for Mountain West days?"NO! I would
rather see my team struggle in the second toughest conference in college
football than play in the Mountain West. Do BYU fans yearn for the
Mountain West days? The cougs haven't exactly looked good
either since going Indy.
Utah fans three years ago: we will contend for the division and conference
championship every year! Ute fans now: this is a work in progress and will
take some time. Lol! Ute fans: we could and should be 8-4! Well, yes, but
you could just as easily be 1-10.
Coach is a class act from A to Z. Be very careful how you handle this one Dr
Hill.I’ll be there this Saturday with family and friends and
I’ll be there next year with my full support of the team.We
have already requested additional season tickets even though they are difficult
to come by these days.Utah has a great product and it will continue
to improve under Coach Whittingham’s excellent leadership. This conference
is exciting and competitive to say the least. Am I glad they made
the leap to the Pac-12? YES Am I in for the long hall? YES...
I’m a Utah man with a BYU beauty!They just need to get their
swagger back and win a few more of the close games. The Oregon St. and Arizona
St. games hurt me the most. They were right there for the taking.Finish strong against CU.Go Utes!
Colby,15 years ago, how many kids grew up wanting to play for
Oregon? Their football team didn't register a blip on the radar, same for
Baylor, OK state, and plenty of other teams who have developed their programs
over the past decade. Utah is now developing their program as well.The realty is that Utah is actually primed quite well for the future. While
Utah high school football is improving, it's improving all over the nation.
That depth has helped Utah tremendously. Utah has made inroads to Texas and
Florida as well as taking the majority of the top talent from in State.
I'm a fan of being in the PAC 12 and wouldn't want to go back to the
Mountain West. When the Utes were invited to join the PAC 12, Urban Meyer said
it would take 4 to 5 years to recruit enough depth to compete on a weekly basis.
Clearly the Utes are recruiting better but they still don't have the depth
with their 2nd and 3rd string players. The quarterback injuries have been
unfortunate and the coaching staff has struggled to have effective backups ready
to go. I think the hiring of Johnson as the Offensive Coordinator was a poor
decision and I'm hopeful Erickson will stay for a few more years to provide
some stability and experience. I wish the Utes and BYU would have been
invited to the PAC 12 together to continue their rivalry as members of the same
conference. Chris Hill blew it with the rivalry and I don't know of any
fellow Ute fan that agrees with taking a 2 year break. Makes no sense to
replace BYU with Fresno State. The Utes are competing, just not finishing games
and it's frustrating to watch. Hopefully that trend changes soon or
Whittingham will be out.
I think it is hilarious that has turned into a BYU vs Utah comparison when the
article wasn't making that comparison at all. Christopher B, was the first
to insinuate that somebody's comment that he didn't like was a BYU,
which ended up not being correct.I've been away from Utah for 5
years and came back to visit this fall, right after the Stanford win. I was
amzed at how much Pac-12 Country paraphernalia there is. To the casual observer,
it seemed there was more PAC-12 fans than Utah. I can't speak for Utah
fans, but it is obvious they LOVE the PAC-12. I wonder for how much longer.The problem lies in recruiting. Besides in-state high school players,
and a few from neighboring states, who has grown up wanting to be a Ute?
Competing with USC, Oregon, UCLA and Stanford is impossible. So that leaves Utah
with players who just want to play football somewhere that the bigger schools
wouldn't take and I'm not sure if that type of recruiting can be
sustainable. I wish them luck, but Utah High Schools don't have enough
power players to make a team.
Is Utah a #9-#10 choice in the PAC-12? Well, it depends which class?Utah's PAC-12 Class Rankings:2011 #62012 #72013
#102014 #11Source: ScoutSo it seems we've
proven we can recruit at the mid-level in the PAC-12. We will never out recruit
teams like USC, UCLA, and Oregon. We need to get back to winning, find PAC-12
position coaches first.
I actually had similar thoughts to Zatarra...If you lived in the
state of Kentucky for the past decade, would you rather have Louisville or
Kentucky as your football team?If you'd rather be losing in the
best conference, then Kentucky is your choice.If you'd rather win in
a significantly inferior conference, then you'd take Louisville. I do agree with Doug, NCAA Football needs to be reigned in by the NCAA.
Weird article. Blame who? For what?It is very clear utah fans like
the challenge of the pac 12. I live outside of Utah and with the pac 12
membership I can watch every game. Every conference game is competitive and that
seems closer to the spirit of college football than beating up on the wyomings
and new mexicos every year. Given the quarterback issues, it's
not a surprise that Utah struggled the last three years. Utah fans are living in
the reality that a serious injury to a key player can derail an entire season,
but that is what comes with the territory of the BCS conferences.
All other factors being the same, if you replaced Whittingham with Urban Meyer
as head coach this year, does Utah's record improve? What about Gary
Anderson? I think it improves in both scenarios. McBride was a
step up from Fassel, Meyer was a step up from McBride, and Whittingham was
necessary in the vacuum of Meyer's departure...but his time is up.
It's time to get a real coach who doesn't hire 25 year olds as his OC,
doesn't squander opportunities to play in the PAC-12 championship game in
Utah's inaugural year of PAC-12 play by losing to the worst team in the
nation (at home), or consistently losing winnable games. The OC
from any of the top 6 SEC schools would be an immediate upgrade.
Whittingham got the Utes into the PAC-12? He built the program? Doug
"Obama" Robinson to Urban Meyer- "You didn't build
that!"If TCU makes 1 of 2 missed FG's against Utah in 2008,
the Utes lose, no Sugar Bowl, no PAC-12. The Oregon St game was nearly a loss
as well. Whittingham lucked out and is a B+ coach. He's slightly above
average. So he'll win in an average conference, and will be punked in a
major one. He has shown he cannot hang with the big boys on a weekly basis.
He'll throw a big win out once in a while, and then immediately undo it by
losing to multiple mediocre teams. He doesn't have or command the mental
discipline necessary to have his team compete week in/week out.
This is an easy answer! No, I do not miss the MWC conference. It was great
playing the top TCU teams and the honorable Air Force Academy, but it got really
boring playing teams that we could nearly guarantee the win before the game.
The question wasn't about whether the Utes would win, but instead by how
large of margin. When we played those games and the margin of victory was the
discussion rather than the hard fought win, that is when you know you
aren't playing the right competition. Nearly every game this year, the
Utes had the capabilities to win, but they also could lose too. It is a lot
more exciting going into most game without being almost certain of the outcome.
I would rather go 2-7 in the PAC-12 exciting games, than go 8-1 in the MWC and
no excitement at all seven games. I take these tough years over any year in the
MWC except for 2004 and 2008. Times are tough, years will be better and worse,
but being apart of the PAC-12 is superior.
Okay DN, I'm sorry for being so vile. Let’s try again. I hated having to learn to clean out the garage, and I hated having to learn
to multiply and do fractions. The issue of fun is ridiculous and irrelevant.
However, I am glad I learned how to work and how to do math. My dad always told
me that nothing of real value in life was ever easy and rarely fun, but it is
sure worth the journey. Jealous detractors can throw sharp darts, but that just
shows envy. BTW, I would hope the U would have the integrity and foresight to
hang on to Coach Whit through the rough years. He is a huge reason we are in the
PAC 12, and BTW Mac did more for us than Urban ever did. Kyle is the long term
real deal, and Urban just used us as a stepping stone. Any school that would be
willing to throw Coach Whit under the bus would lose my respect and future
My only response to the headline since I didn't bother reading the
ridiculous column -- LOL!!!!
@jbp (Dr. Freud) - Good grief, relax with the psychoanalysis buddy. Nobody
expects to lose here, but it certainly is more exciting to play a team with the
greater possibility of a loss. It's like ditching door bells as a kid. The
thrill is in the possibility of getting caught.@tinplater and
letsroll- When was the last time you guys were sitting in a player's living
room on a recruiting tour? @Zatarra - Kentucky? That's your
example, Really? They've never been a football contender.For
crying out loud people! Utah has a great challenge to grow and improve, and I
believe they can and will rise to the occasion. BYU has a great challenge and
opportunity to be a great independent national power and compete at a level with
Notre Dame. They are taking the steps to make it happen.I will miss
the rivalry - both winning and losing. These are the things that make life
exciting and more worth living. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. We should be
more decent people than demonstrated with the nasty dart-throwing quips, and
grateful that both teams rose to the challenge to be great.
Chance that Utah returns to MWC: zeroChance that BYU returns to MWC:
likelyThis year represents the pinnacle of what BYU can accomplish
as an independent. With their best team and toughest schedule ever, they failed
to beat a top 25 team, won't finish in the top 25 themselves, and have no
title to play for.Cougar fans don't like that. They want a
meaningful season. With scheduling going down hill from here, don't
surprised if BYU returns to their role as a big fish in a little pond.
I rather go 5-7 in the PAC-12 then 10-3 in the MWC. Losing is never fun, but
winning a bunch of cupcakes isn't either. Utah finished 33-6
in the MWC, all loses were to AP ranked teams. It was time to move on and
I'm glad we did.
Let's roll (2 of 2)Objective reasons why Utah's recruiting
will improveThe money: While it is "ME Too" stuff as you
mention, the fact is we aren't "me too" yet. So the increase in
resources will likely be a significant helpUtah actually has some
things that do set it apart. The biggest thing for Utah is something that Whit
is already developing and is showing benefits: the Polynesian connection. Given
the strong Poly ties to Utah, they get are are getting better players,
particularly in the trenches. Examples in the past 2 classes, of out of state
Polynesian players: Lutui, Uhatafe, Aiava, Ianu, Tevi, Vaenuku (RIP).LDS church: The fact that Utah has the biggest Institute in the world is a
benefit for elite LDS players who want a BCS experience with a strong church
presence.Texas: As I mentioned before, Utah is in Texas more than
another Pac-12 school, and they are spreading to Florida. Players are
committing from these areas, and it will only improve with increased revenue.Ultimately I don't think Utah will be in the top 2 or 3 in
recruiting, but I don't think they have to be a very competitive Pac-12
Let's Roll (1 of 2)The problem with your argument (that Utah is
the 9th or 10th choice among recruits who have offers from all other Pac-12
schools) is that there are very few recruits who are offered from all Pac-12
schools. My point was to show that there are plenty of recruits who have
chosen Utah over other Pac-12 schools, even "elite" level pac 12
schools, and that is bump we have had over the past 2 year.When I
read your numbers regarding players who chose Utah over Pac-12 schools I read it
as only 4, I guess you are saying 4 had offers from Utah and one other Pac 12
school, and 4 had multiple offers from Pac-12 schools, if that is your point,
then your numbers are correct. If Utah only recruited the same players as other
Pac-12 schools, then I would be discouraged, but, given their inroads to Texas,
it isn't as concerning.Drawing the conclusion that we are the
9th or 10th ranked choice based on our ranking isn't a valid conclusion.
As Hillary Clinton would say, "What difference does this make?"Play ball! If you like your conference, and your coach, you can keep
I should of said "the 70's and 80's".
I watch and cheer for both Utah and BYU unless they are playing the Aggies. I
think the real question about fun depends on whether you are a football fan or
you are just a fan of the school. If you are a fan of the school, then it seems
you will only enjoy winning. If you are a football fan cheering for your
favorite team, then the outcome is not as important in determining if you
enjoyed yourself.From an Aggie perspective the Boise State and BYU
games (both losses) were not that enjoyable because I feel we just didn't
compete. On the hand the Utah and USC game were enjoyable (even though the
outcome was undesirable).However, even in games that are not close
you can still enjoy great plays and great players. Example: any fan of football
would appreciate Van Noy's play on the first play of the BYU/USU game. As
an Aggie fan the result was not fun, but I still had to appreciate the play and
let's roll,Utah has come a long way from where the were in the
80's and 90's. They didn't do it "entirely on hope". Go
Utes Go PAC 12.
poyUte,You've now conceded you have no answer to my original
question. How can we as Utah fans believe (rather than hope) we'll ever
have the top half of the talent pool needed to win consistently in the
PAC-12.We ARE the 9th or 10th choice for recruits, that's why
our recruiting classes ARE ranked 9th and 10th the last two year. Now you say you don't think Utah will ever be able to recruit more than
the occasional 4 or 5 star athlete when our competition has gets 10 or so every
year, which explains their recruiting class rankings. So remind me again how
Utah is going to get into the top half of PAC-12 recruiting. As I
mention in the first email good coaching can occasionally get inferior talent to
beat better talent, but only occasionally. And all the money/improvement you
talk about is just "me too" stuff, everyone is doing it and it
doesn't differentiate the U from any other PAC-12 member. That's what
the U needs, differentiation. Your vision for improvement in the
future is the same as mine...based entirely on hope...not on any objective
reason that things will improve.
Utah would have been fools to have turned down a PAC 12 membership. The truth
is Utah has been very competitive. OSU, ASU and UCLA were winnable games. I
hope coach Whittingham remains at least one more year. No mention of the UTES
loosing their starting QB two years in a row. I see Utah in a bowl game next
"Better than Corvalis and Pullman" is saying something.... State
teams.... Middle of nowhere Pacific Northwest... It also oddly means that
Boulder... Where? Yes, that Boulder is 9th.... LOL... I would like
to illustrate the win v losing line of thinking with are Utes happy to be
beating bo diddly squat this year? Or would they rather be playing and beating
teams like Texas and other big name teams night after night week after week
resulting in every other game loss situations? I am one who wishes Notre Dame
was a win.. That Utah was a win, that Virginia was a win... That Wisconsin was a
win... I am not happy to have simply 'been in a game' with them... A
real fan wants to see wins at whatever level competition it plays but especially
the little fish in the swift moving creeks of America. It was no fun losing to
Iowa State at home or Wichita State in the Sprint Center... Those are games that
could have had huge implications in March... Could have boos... Nevermind...
Cougars need to be humble... That is when they do 'best'... A Cocky
Cougar team is not a successful one...
@USALoverTHAT was a GREAT comment. Why don't we do that? Huge
upside. TV rights, great recruiting power, terrific football games.Downside: These teams would beat the tar our of each other and still would not
make the BCS Bowls or the upcoming Football Final Four.
poyUteNothing wrong with my information.The recruits
you're talking about are part of recruiting classes that were ranked 9th in
the PAC-12(2013) or 10th in the PAC-12 (2014). So your explanation explains the
background behind those 9th and 10th rated recruiting classes. My question was,
and continues to be, how can the U get into the top half of PAC-12 recruiting.
Most recruiting classes have about 25 athletes. To cite 4 or 5 from
each class who had another PAC-12 offer means 80% of the recruiting class
wasn't offered at any other PAC-12 school, our competition. And as I noted earlier, at the top end, it's even worse. Not only do USC
and UCLA have 10 4 star or higher athletes for every 1 Utah has. And despite
whatever in-roads Utah may be making in Texas, Utah isn't getting any more
of those athletes than it did before it was in the PAC-12. Bottom
line, thanks for explaining how Utah put together its 9th and 10th rated
recruiting classes the last two year, the question remains, how do we do better.
@Pocy UtesBYU's home slate had four great opponents coming in
to LES this year with Utah, Boise State, Texas, Georgia Tech. MTS wasn't a
name opponent for BYU, but a far better program than most of the MWC.I am glad that Utah went to the PAC12. The move meant BYU would go Indy after
talking about doing so since the nineties. Both play much more exciting
schedules.Utah will never be at the top of the PAC-12 on a yearly
basis. They will compete and spoil a good team now and again. They will
eventually get back to bowl games on a yearly basis, just not too likely during
the next two years. BYU will never be a top ten team on a consistent basis.
They will continue having one to three great wins a season (this year it was the
Texas, Houston, GT and Boise State wins for me) and being ranked about half the
time. I am having fun too.
Nah.... The one thing that will never escape this state is the great veil of
mediocrity... The mediocrity curtain will never entertain the truly top elite
recruits to come here... Fire the coaches... Fire the ADs... The results will
always be the same... Always a poorly executed play here or there... The what
if's being candies and nuts making every year a Merry Christmas... I do have one problem... Why is there even a pretended attempt to blend
USU, UU BYU BSU TCU etc in the same conference? 2 of the aforementioned teams
are already elite aligned... Why would they leave that for more of the years
gone by? Please put that what if to bed permanently so we don't have to go
'oh brother' even one more time.. Plus, not only that, but BYU
doesn't particularly want to be anywhere but where they are right now..
Nothing will change that... EVER!
I love BYU football since going to independence. The schedule has never been
more diverse and interesting. The ability to watch every game in HD, usually on
ESPN, has been a very nice change for the national fan base. We blew some games
this year, but we've had better teams in the past who would have run the
table against this year's schedule, which would have qualified us for a BCS
bowl. Nope, not worth going back to the MWC. Like many of the Ute fans have
mentioned, would you rather beat up on a bunch of lousy teams, or watch hard
fought games against serious competition? Beating Texas and Boise St. was a
blast, and competing with Wisconsin and Notre Dame was ultimately disappointing
but much more engaging than sleeping through yet another Colorado State blowout
victory. The fact is, BYU and the U both underperformed this year, but will live
to experience seasons in the sun.
Let's RollNow your t changing your argument. You've gone
from saying that Utah will be the 9th or 10th choice of athletes in the pac-12
who don't have a connection to Utah (an artificial restriction) which I
have already shown isn't based in objective evidence, to "how can Utah
recruit the 4 and 5 star athletes?" Well, I don't think
they ever will, but that doesn't mean they can't win in the Pac-12
without a roster of 4 and 5 star athletes. It means the improved athletes who
Utah has in the program have to be coached up. Utah has improved talent, but
expecting a bunch of freshman and sophomores to come in and dominate is an
unreasonable expectation.Utah will close the gap as they continue to
improve the talent base, improve facilities and have more money to put towards
recruiting as the get a full share of the pac-12 money. An example how that has
helped, Utah now brings players in on officials during the season cause they can
afford support staff to take care of the recruits instead of the coaches.
Next year, Utah has the same PAC-12 schedule with Stanford and Oregon (at home!)
plus we are trading BYU for Michigan. It's only getting
tougher. And I am still going to every game! I would not yearn for
the Mountain West.
Let's rollSorry, you have misinformation. Dominique
Hatfield. 2 pac 12 offers: Ucla and UtahGreg Reese: Utah and Oregon
St.Xavier Shepherd-academic casualty who will likely resign again after
Juco: Utah, Az, Cal, Oregon St, UCLABrandon Cox: Utah and ArizonaMicah Thomas: Utah and ColoradoI didn't include Tevin Carter
who had offers from Utah and OSU because he likely will not ever play at UtahNow, let's add people who have a connection to Utah.Of
the instate recruits who chose Utah last year 3 of the 4 had Pac-12 offers:
Masina: colorado; Lowell Lotulelei: Cal, Oregon St. UCLA, Evan Moeai: USC and
ColoradoThe nice thing is, Utah has made great inroads in Texas, and
they are 1 of 7 teams who signed at least 1 player from Texas last year, but
Utah with their 7 and 3 more than OSU, the next highest school.All
of the Texas commits had at least 1 offer to another BCS school.So,
to say Utah is the 9 or 10 pick of Pac 12 choices, has been demonstrated as
incorrect, and then to limit those athletes as the only ones who Utah can get is
wrong. In other words, your whole premise if wrong.
Re Chris B "a 5-7 program in the Pac 12 is better than a 10-2
program in the WAC 2.0."What Chris B fails to understand is that
the 5-7 Pac12 Team and the 10-2 WAC team are the SAME team. Obviously what
he's concerned with is the status of the PAC12 which has nothing to do with
the entertainment value for the fans. Quality recruits want wins.. not just the
status of being in a premium conference.Another year like this one
and tickets sales will fall off sharply. The UofU program is declining since
joining their elect conference and will lead to many years of bottom dwelling
statistics. The once proud Utes will be faced with some tough decisions in the
future all because they choose to go for the money.I think most
rational U fans would rather have a winning season with the reward of a bowl
game than to lose on most Saturdays and sit at home for Christmas.
@Razzle2 "Following Doug Robinson logic...BYU should hope to join the
toughest conference in America since 10 teams supposedly wish they were not in
the Southeast Conference anymore."The PAC-12 is stronger than
the SEC. They have undefeated 'Bama and two schools with only one loss,
Auburn & Missouri (Bama has not played either school). But, so far, they
have nine teams will not be bowl eligible. Is that the best conference?The PAC-12 is stronger as a conference. Utah beat Stanford, Stanford beat
Oregon, Oregon beat UCLA, UCLA beat Oregon State, Oregon State beat Washington,
Washington beat Arizona, Arizona beat Oregon.
While I not surprised to see the usual suspect make posts here, the Y fans and U
haters have no business commenting on this article. Read the last paragraph -
here is a sentence?So, the question: If you are a U. fan, are you
still glad the Utes made the leap to the Pac-12?It doesn't say
if you are a Y fan, what do you think U fans would say. I am a U fan
and while I miss the winning season, I couldn't get very excited about
playing UNLV, Wyoming, CSU, and Air Force. With the exception of Colorado, I
was excited about every other conference game. Utah is not going to dominate a
division that includes USC, UCLA, and ASU but they will have years when they can
compete for a conference title. That works for me.
Heck no! Losing is so much more fun...
Nine teams of the SEC are not bowl eligible and Georgia may make it 10 this
week. Following Doug Robinson logic...BYU should hope to join the
toughest conference in America since 10 teams supposedly wish they were not in
the Southeast Conference anymore.
@PocyUteI do follow Utah recruiting. I am a fan. The numbers
demonstrate the challenge I described.Utah Recruiting classes were
ranked 10th in the PAC-12 in 2014 and 9th in 2013. Since those rankings factor
in the number of recruits in a class, they can be a bit misleading, but
here's the real challenge.Four Star and Above Recruits in the
class of 2013UCLA 17USC 12 Oregon 8'''Utah 1That is the gap between the upper echelon of PAC-12
recruiting and where the U is now. Help me understand how we can close that
huge gap and then we can talk about how you've refuted my premise.
USAlover "Can you imagine Utah, BYU, Boise State, TCU, Utah State and Fresno
State all in the same Conference?"Something like it called the
There are remarkably few people demanding Kyle's resignation. Success in
this league is difficult but Utah is not that far off. The best part is that the
wins actually mean something.The only ones who hope the Utes are
miserable in the PAC-12 are those who would give anything to change places with
Based on the title of the article I refuse to read it. 'cmon
I am a BYU fan, but for anyone to suggest the Utes would prefer to return to the
Mountain West Conference is foolish. Fact is, Utah's membership in the PAC
12 is a plus for not just them, but for all of college football in the state of
Utah.Maybe the Utes have struggled thus far in the PAC 12, but the
future is not set in stone and perhaps the Utes will one day flourish in the PAC
12.And for my fellow Cougar fans who like to compare BYU verses
Utah's overall records, fact is, I doubt the Cougarsd would be 7-4 right
now if they had to play Utah's schedule. And BYU's schedule next
season has three or four tough games, but that's about it. To
my fellow Cougar fans, let's not mock Utah and their struggles in the PAC
12 too much. Suppose tomorrow, the Big 12 came to BYU and said, "You're
in!" Isn't it fair to say we might struggle against teams like
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas A&M?
It is really stupid to think that anybody would want to go back to the MW. We
will get better in the Pac12 and I think coach Whit is the coach that will get
Sorry PocyUte, The premise of my comment was there's no
objective reason to believe Utah can be in the top half of PAC-12 recruiting.
Your comment didn't provide any objective evidence to the
contrary. All it did was prove my point.Of the 2014 recruits you
cite, neither picked Utah over another PAC-12 school. Of the 2013
class only 4 picked Utah over another PAC-12 school (and one of those turned
down OSU, which I concede has the same handicap to recruiting as does Utah).
Only 4 kids in the class had other PAC-12 offers. That's not encouraging.
Nearly every recruit at schools in the top half of PAC-12 recruiting have
multiple offers from other PAC-12 schools.So your "evidence"
that Utah can get in the top half of PAC-12 recruiting is that they had 3
recruits that picked Utah over "better" PAC-12 schools (and to get to 3
you have to concede that Cal is a better program than Utah). Did any of those
3 have ties to Utah (I admit we'll still get kids with Utah ties)?How many kids did Utah offer who chose other PAC-12 teams instead?You're just proving my point.
Balan, Utah has had only 2 full recruiting cycles since joining the Pac-12. It
would behoove you to get your facts straight before endorsing an opinion.
I find it interesting to read the comments related to how much better it is to
lose to PAC 12 teams than it was having to play teams like New Mexico and
Colorado State. I did my diligent research and found that over the last ten
years that the U played UNM, they split the games evenly.. Maybe you need to
return to playing teams like UNM and CSU, at least you might return to .500.
pocyUte, if the premise is false then prove it on the field. You have had four
recruiting seasons since the "big announcement" was made. If you are
getting better players, then win! Lets Win's comment was
insightful and, as far as I am concerned, dead on.
At least in the MWC we won more than 4-5 games per year and we were almost
always contending for a conference championship, if not in football then in
basketball or some other sport. I'd much rather win than lose, even if the
wins are against New Mexico and Colorado State. Losing to Oregon St. and
Washington St etc. is more than I bargained for. Take me back to
the winning days of the MWC!
How well have Arizona and Arizona State done since joining the PAC? Not so
great.Statistics predict they will be the ugly girl at the dance from here
The Utes will be just fine. Their conference record is a glossy 5-1-1. Five
moral victories, one win and one loss.Onward and upward!
pocyUte, if the Utes are such great recruiters then they must have lousy
coaching. If I were a recruit and could choose Stanford, USC, ASU, Cal, and
Oregon in addition to Utah, I would be off to the sunny balmy metropolitan
climes. Utah will be competitive with Washington State, Oregon State, and
Colorado. Just because a kid chooses a school, doesn't mean the school was
better, just that he might see an opportunity to play at a lesser school.Don't misunderstand, Utah will get a higher level of recruit than my
Aggies because of program size and conference prestige, but the Aggies are right
where they should be. The question is are the Utes?
This question is so easy to answer for me. The answer is an emphatic NO! I
don't miss the MWC. Why? Too many games were a foregone conclusion, and
the record, quite frankly, was deceptive. Look at Utah's last year in the
Mountain West. They started the year 8-0 and rose to #5 in the BCS. What an
illusion that was. The last 5 games of the season included a 47-7 beating by
TCU, a 28-3 shellacking at Notre Dame, a 26-3 blowout in the Vegas Bowl, a come
from behind 38-34 win at San Diego State, and a 17-16 win over BYU where we
needed a blocked field goal on the last play to win it. That was the worst 10-3
team in history. They got there by beating the likes of New Mexico, UNLV, etc.
As bad as the record is this year, there have only been 2 non-competitive games
(USC and Oregon) and only one foregone conclusion (Oregon). I personally love
watching the games every week. You see great talent and competitive games, and
it isn't the MWC where you knew that BYU, TCU or Utah was going to win the
conference, and only lose to each other.
I don't think Arizona and Arizona State have ever regretted leaving the WAC
back in the 70s, despite their not having become perennial powers in the PAC in
any major sport. Likewise, I wouldn't expect Utah to regret playing
against better overall competition, even if it only has occasional conference
success. But there's a world of difference between belonging to a power
conference and dominating it, to which Kyle Whittingham may bear witness in
another year or two, when he's coaching linebackers at San Jose State.
pocyUtethe Utah program is much better than Iowa State, now if Texas or
someone would have offered it would be a more objective. He said 9th or
10th in the pac.Isom is a great recruit and I respect him, when he
committed he cited academics as the main reason so I give him a lot of respect
for that.Utah's recruiting class this year does not have many
athletes offered by Power Conference schools, but the Utah class is small(so
far).I think Utah will be able to recruit on the same level as Oregon
State, which can get them really good teams, but will seldom out recruit the top
tier of the pac.
This Ute fan does not "yearn" for the days of the MWC. Go ahead and hate
on us, doesn't really matter to me. Every team in the MWC or any other mid
major conference would jump at the chance to improve their conference
affiliation if given the chance. Boise switched to the MWC and
wishes they could join a better conference even though they lost more games this
year than they have in a decade. I've watched better football
the last three years than I saw in the MWC and I'll wait patiently while
the Utes gradually improve and have better seasons than this tough year.BYU would not go back to the MWC even if they did offer a better TV
deal. It wouldn't make sense for them to do that, so why would Utah
deliberately seek to move back to the conference few people care about just to
pick up more wins in a season? Happy to be a Ute and happy with the
decision to be in the PAC 12. For some, the comfort of going to a mediocre bowl
every year must feel more secure.
@eastcoastcoug"Now, Utes, if you have truly moved on, can you really
let go the obsession with BYU?"How can we when you won't go
away? When Utah doesn't schedule BYU there is total outrage. When they do
schedule there is outrage because the game isn't in Nov. We win and are
still the lesser team. Look at the comments for this article, ~50% cougs. How
can we move on when you won't let go? Fatal Attraction anyone?Personally, I could not careless about BYU, I never have and never will. If
Utah ever played them again (at anything) it would be too soon but, *sigh* the
games are already scheduled. Before ya'll skewer me, this is
my opinion only and no animals were harmed during the creation of this comment.
JRB,that's just sillyNo one one here says we enjoy
losing, or expect to lose. We are saying we enjoy being in the Pac-12 more than
the MWC, despite the fact that we have lost more games. Fortunately, you are not the "Fandom Czar" so I can still consider my
self a true fan.
Let's roll,If you follow Utah recruiting, you would see that
your premise that Utah is the 9th or 10th pick of players with BCS level offers
is not objectively based (since we are being objectiveOf the 2014
commits of Utah this year from out of state with no connection to utahDonovan Isom QB: Louisianna. 2 BCS offers Utah and MiamiRaelon
Singleton WR: Texas 2 BCS offers Utah and Iowa St.In last years
class alone 13 players who chose Utah over their other BCS offers, includingUCLA, Baylor, Nebraska, Oregon St. West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland,
Arizona, Indiana, Texas Tech, Iowa St., Miss St. and Cal among others.So, by objective reasoning, your premise is completely false.
No regrets. I am glad that Utah is in the PAC12. Now if we could just drop BYU
from the schedule.
I think this question is easier answered when approached from the opposite
perspective, that being: Does Boise State miss not having been
invited to a BCS conference? My answer: Absolutely. After years of
dominating mid-major teams and occasionally winning big games against big teams,
Boise State is now slipping. And where does that leave them? Nowhere. No team
stays on top forever. I'm glad we jumped to the bigger ship when we had the
chance. Besides, the conference affiliation is far more important than just
football. It's helping our university academically and in many other
sports. Yes it stinks to lose, but joining the PAC-12 is still a no-brainer.
I love that Utah has something to work for. There were some great games this
year that the Utes just weren't able to capitalize on. When Utah joined
the Pac10 conference, so many predicted that like Arizona and Arizona State,
Utah would be bottom dwellers. Well, Arizona State is leading the south
conference this year, and one day it will be Utah. While some may be
content with beating up on teams from Idaho and the like, I'm glad that
Utah is playing with the big boys. I see great things ahead for this team.
In a word, no.
@LivinLarge- "Several PAC-12 teams think of Utah as a "practice
Squad" or as a "bye-week" in their schedule."Yeah right...
Like Stanford did? How about Oregon St? How about Arizona St? How about
Arizona? How about UCLA? All of those games were within a single score. The
only cupcakes on Utah's schedule this year- BYU, Weber St. Those were the
only "guaranteed" cupcake wins for the U this year.
I'm as hopeful as anyone that the Utes will become more successful, but
have to admit that it's just that--hope.For those who believe
it's a foregone conclusion, I'm anxious to hear the plan. Utah came
into the PAC-12 as the 10th most desirable market (better than Corvallis and
Pullman), with facilities that were probably 10th in the league as well.All the "upgrading" going on, while good and necessary, will not
likely result in those facilities leapfrogging anyone else's in the
conference. Everyone get PAC-12 money and everyone has already upgraded or is
upgrading their facilities. Unless a recruit has a Utah tie, Utah
with be the 9th or 10th choice for anyone good enough to warrant offers from all
the schools. Teams with bad coaching can loose with superior talent (e.g. UCLA
for years) but teams with lesser talent are not likely to win consistently
against better talent.The Utes are well coached. Occasionally, they
can win against superior talent but I don't see an objective reason to
believe (rather than hope)that their talent will ever be in the top half of the
Didn't read all the post (after all, this is about Utah) but I must say the
following:Chris B---Wrong yet again. There were 5 teams in the Big
12 that said NO to Larry. After he invited Colorado he needed another team to
make 12 so the Utes were invited. No one ever thought Utah and Colorado were
good for competition but were great to make certain a PAC 12 Championship could
be held. Utah was team #12 of 12 (after 5 snubs).Those who say that
Utah "was in every game but two" apparently didn't watch the WSU
game last weekend. Utah NEVER led, not even once and at one point they were 21
points behind. That isn't being in the game. If it lasted another 4 or 5
hours maybe you'd have tied the score, but I doubt it. And the game where
they went for a 2-point conversion and failed, then lost by one point---maybe
they were in that one but shot themselves in the foot. Stark reality.I'm happy to see them in the PAC 12 (BCS CONFERENCE) because there is no
longer any BCS. They did that to themselves because the BCS looked silly every
year on their own.
Spokane Ute, my nephew who plays for Arizona refers to the U as a team that
doesn't really belong in the PAC-12.
Losing in a big pond is much better than winning in a small pond. The U will win
in the PAC12 - it takes a few years before recruiting catches up. Playing UCS
and Standford at home is a bit better than playing Colorado State and New Mexico
I would say.
There are so many Ute fans saying they would rather watch a game that they lose
against a good opponent (i.e. UCLA), than watch them win a game against what
they perceive as an inferior opponent (i.e. New Mexico). Some state they also
had more fun seeing them lose against a better team than beating an inferior
team by 40. To me this sounds much like a fan base that is beginning to expect
losing. Whatever team I am a fan of, in any sport, I expect to watch my team
win. Anything less than a win is not fun for me. Winning at any level is fun
and losing at any level is NOT fun!!! The only way you can have fun when your
team loses, is when you suspect that the loss is a possibility and have come to
accept that before watching the game, even if you act confident like Chris B,
who acts overconfident to protect his fear of reality. Maybe many of you did
have more fun, but that just means your are not a true fan, but rather, one that
wants to be entertained.
Ask the question, "What do you think about Kentucky Football?" The
obvious response is, "Who?" Kentucky has been in the mighty SEC,
allegedly the nation's strongest, greatest football conference (blah,
blah), since 1946. The last time they were ranked nationally was 1984. The last
time they finished in the SEC conference's top 3 was 1993. The last time
they finished first in the conference was a tie in 1976. The term cellar dweller
isn't just a derogatory name. For some, it's reality. The next time
you want to boast about your membership in a mighty conference, ask the question
"What do you think about Kentucky Football?" If you think it's
better to be 0-12 in the PAC than 12-0 elsewhere, put that along side
Kentucky's 23 losing seasons in the past 30 years. Of course many will say
apples and oranges, but it's really not. Power conference alone really
means nothing more than lots of money from TV deals. That's about it.
The important issue in my mind is to have teams of equal resources in the same
conference where one has the chance to be competitive each season. Arizona
State is a perfect Pac 12 member because of size and great location in a large
metropolitan area which plays big in recruiting. Utah will always be
handicapped by awful winters! ASU was able to rise to be competitive in the PAC
whereas Utah, to date, has not been able to do so and will always be at a
disadvantage recruiting against the majority of the PAC 12 teams. But at an
advantage recruiting against my Aggies!
DunedainI see your point, and I just chose those games from game BYU
lost and Utah won. The reality is, while yes, I hate missing out on
a bowl game 2 years in a row, I am enjoying being a Utah fan more now than ever,
and I think most Utah fans would agree. I would think that BYU fans
would rather be Indy as well. While it was a fairly weak slate of home games for
BYU, it'll get better, and ultimately the competition that BYU will face
will be better than it was while in the MWC. The only person who
would vote for either side to go back to the way it was is probably related to
There's no way I would go back to the MWC.It is more enjoyable
watching Utah compete against quality opponents than watching them line up
against below average teams on a regular basis.Of course I wish the
Utes had won more frequently in the Pac 12 over the last three seasons, but I
believe they will become more competitive as they develop/recruit more depth and
talent in the future.Go Utes. Finish the season with a win!
Doug makes a big assumption in thinking that Utah (I'm a Utah fan) would
still be the big fish in a not so small pond. The Mountain West was adding Boise
State and the conference did have TCU and BYU. The Mountain West, had it stayed
together, would have been a very competitive conference with four teams capable
of beating each other if they didn't bring their A game every weekend.Yes watching the Utes the last three seasons, except when they played BYU, has
been painful. But as has been said elsewhere they were more competitive this
year, beating a top 5 team and having close games against 2 of the 4 other rated
teams they played. I think they made the right move, not just for athletic
(money) reasons but also for academic reasons. The PAC 12 is thought of much
more highly than the MWC in terms of academics and that will help getting better
students and more academic grants. I see it as a long term win-win.
azreader1tucson, AZI do have to chuckle over the comments of
Utes fans I read here at the time of the Pac-12 move. They were talking about
Utah and USC perennially dominating the conference. My how times have
changed!You took me down memory lane, azreader1. My memories of
these boards at the time of the invite are a little bit different than yours,
however. I remember thinking, "my goodness, Utah County is on suicide
WA_Alum&DadMarysville, WAYou just copy and paste your
comments, don't you. LOL!Brad JWest Jordan, UTDon't you love the picture for this article. It says it all.Do you know what that photo tells me, Brad? It says that the BCS is, indeed,
legitimate and that there is a world of difference between BCS talent and the
other guys. Utah is getting to that level but the rest of you...only dreaming.
As a PAC-12 fan I'd find it much easier to welcome Utah to the conference
if it wasn't for the incessant arrogance surrounding their entry and all
the proud insinuations that USC was going to be their only real obstacle to the
Rose Bowl. It has been good to see reality set in over the past three years. I
don't wish bad on the Utes, but it doesn't hurt my feelings at all to
see them wallow at the bottom and have to earn their way up to being competitive
after realizing that their not near what they thought they were three years ago.
Again, the only ones worked up over this and Utah's Pac 12 record to date
is BYU fans. Would Utah fans like things to be better- of course. Eventually
the QB thing will get fixed, the O line will settle down and Utah will be
competing. Even with the near misses this year it's been fun and better
than Nevada and Idaho State in November.BB is just about there and
the frantic comments by ByU fans over Utah's pre-conference schedule has
been amusing. Utah will definitely compete in BB this year.
kitsutsukiSouth Jordan, Utah"Nah - Ute fans love flying
their PAC12 banners & flags. Funny that I am not seeing nearly as many Utah
flags flying from cars / homes however. Wonder why that is?If you
don't have a team at least you have a conference!"You know,
much of what you say is correct. Being a member of the Pac-12 is far, far more
than just sports.
I'm with Chris B on this one. For decades I have wanted BYU to get in the
PAC - for 3 main reasons:1- Better competition makes you play better
over time, gets you better recruits, which raises your level2- The PAC is
where the LDS fan base and recruiting base are3- The PAC cities (esp. LA,
Bay Area, Phoenix, Seattle) have the largest media audiences in the West.
Playing in Nevada, Boise, Logan doesn't do it. Wisconsin, Notre
Dame, U Texas, Houston are a good start but it's not the same as an
annual league matchup.I just don't get the whiny "this is
soooooo hard" mentality. We (BYU) have acted for so many years like we are
world beaters. Fact is, we've never played consistently at a high level.
Neither has Utah. Undefeated in the MWC means nothing. But if you play with the
big boys every week, you eventually have the opportunity to become as good as
they are. Kudo's to Utah for earning their way to a very nice club!!Now, Utes, if you have truly moved on, can you really let go the
obsession with BYU?
PocyUte,I can see what you're saying and I have a couple
thoughts.One, its not a completely fair comparison of the BYU/Utah
game to the BYU/Idaho State because one is a rivalry game and the other
isn't. Rivalries are something in and of itself in my opinion and
can't be compared to other games because rivalries are so unique and unlike
other college football game (see some of the ESPN college football podcasts from
this week)Second, fun is in the eye of the beholder so we're
arguing about abstract concepts that can't fully be conveyed through
language. Look i'll admit that Idaho State isn't a great team but I
left that game with a better taste in my mouth than any of our losses. Of course
losses are just a part of the sport,if you couldn't you shouldn't be a
fan.I think Doug's point was equating fun with memorable. The
Utes BCS runs were memorable. For us, Cougs the great last second wins against
you guys and and those conference champion seasons were memorable. These last
few years weren't.
"There is no buyers remorse at the University of Utah"Well
of course there isn't. But has anybody asked Larry Scott lately about
buyer's remorse from the conference? I'm sure they're all
thrilled for this weeks marque rivalry game "The Pillow Fight In The Rockies
For Basement Apartment Rights" It's undoubtedly embarrassing for the
conference.I'll bet television ratings are through the roof for
this one. If there's a game on regional TV and nobody actually turns it on
to watch, did it really happen?
LivinsmallWas one of those teams Stanford?
This year, the University of Utah Utes played the most difficult and exciting
schedule in the nation. We beat one of the best teams in college football in
what was one of the biggest wins in the history of football in this state. And
if we beat Colorado, we'll come away with more wins this season that any of
the experts predicted, despite ongoing QB issues. It's a work
in progress, as expected. But it's fun to progress.No, we do
not in any way "yearn for the Mountain West."Though
it's clear from the comments, and the article itself, that byu fans do.
Well of course we don't want to go back to the MWC. What would we do with
all of our PAC-12 basement window stickers?
I love the PAC 12! If Utah was getting blown out every week I'd miss the
MWC, but that's not the case. Utah could and should be 8-4. If Utah goes
undefeated they have a legitmate shot at playing for a championship whereas
before, Utah went 12-0 and 13-0 and still didn't get the chance. If wake
forest or Vanderbilt went undefeated they would also play for a title. Boise,
BYU,Fresno, USU, Houston, you have no chance. Sorry, it's all about
conference affiliation in today's college football.
I do have to chuckle over the comments of Utes fans I read here at the time of
the Pac-12 move. They were talking about Utah and USC perennially dominating
the conference. My how times have changed!
Fair question. As a Ute fan it has been hard watching my team have it's
lunch eaten most weeks. My answer to the question: Yes and no. I do miss having
8, 9, 10 win seasons with the occasional undefeated season. It was fun!! I
don't miss seeing Wyoming, New Mexico, CSU but enjoy watching the USCs,
Oregons, and Stanfords of the world come to SLC almost every year. However if
things don't turn around and we can't at least become partially
competitive ( 4 or 5 conference wins) it'll be hard to be a fan. I'm a
diehard and will always watch them and cheer them on, win or lose, but it'd
be nice if they could right this PAC ship. I'd rather not my team be
Washington State's replacement as the whipping boy.
As a Ute fan I would rather lose to Arizona State 19-20 than beat Wyoming 44-10
any-day. This is more than a few year building process! It will take the Utes
at least 5 years to be competitive in the 2nd best conference in college
football. That should not come as a surprise. If Utah played BYU's
schedule a bowl game would be a forgone conclusion. But then again do we want
to go down to the wire with UCLA and Arizona State and beat #5 Stanford or
destroy Idaho State, Nevada, Virginia and so on... I say play big-time football
even if it takes time to build a strong enough foundation for success. Utah is
a great place and well postured for the future. Remember the old saying
"all good things come in TIME" Go Ute s- Go PAC!
Short answer, yes, I'm having more fun as a fan of both the U and the Y.
There are now 10 interesting games a year for the U and 8 for the Y, compared to
about 3 in the WAC, MWC days. And as many have mentioned, those 10
games for the U were entertaining as were all 8 of the Y games.It
will, of course, be more fun when, and if, there are more wins in future
Dunedain, while I understand what you are saying, I respectfully disagree.Ask yourself if you had more fun at the Utah/BYU game or the Idaho
State/BYU game?I will tell you I had A LOT more fun at the UCLA and
Oregon St. game than I did at the Weber St. game.
Several PAC-12 teams think of Utah as a "practice squad" or as a
"bye-week" in their schedule. Sad, very sad for Wasatch Front football
fans! No rivalries, just losses to look forward to.
Don't you love the picture for this article. It says it all
Although winning more would be nice I would never want Utah to be in the MWC
again. Utah will be a winning program again. They are learning what it takes to
get there. They are very close. Utah st. And byu on the other hand aren't
even close to where the utes were when they left for the Pac12.
1: As a lifelong west-coaster and USC fan, I've had all the PAC I can
stand. As an ardent BYU fan (who roots blue whenever they play USC), I was
loudly opposed to the notion that BYU would be a good fit in the PAC. Those
feelings only deepen as time goes by, now surrounded by Husky and Wassou fans.
2: As someone who has gone to comical lengths in the past to try to
sneak a BYU game on the local church building's satellite system or to park
up in the mountains after dark to try to catch KSL and listen to a night game,
but who now has BYUtv and ESPN, there is absolutely no comparison.I
get that some Cougar season ticket holders are bummed that not every home game
is played at 1:00 on Saturday afternoon anymore, but for me and, I wager, the
tens of thousands of Cougar Faithful spread all over the country and the world,
life is an order of magnitude better independent. And the icing on
the cake is the new distance between BYU and UU. I have never considered BYU a
"Utah School." Good riddance to that.
All the arguments are not answering the real question he posed if you read the
article. The question was are you having more fun? I would suggest
that the losing seasons say no. Go ahead spin that however you want to make
yourself feel better ("we're seeing better teams in the games,
etc"). The fact is a loss is a loss and no bowls are no bowls. As BYU fan I would say the same thing. The independence thing is cool but
losing the big games isn't fun in the end. But it was fun to win the MWC
despite its lack of national relevance like we did in 06 and 07. Winning is
always funner then losing and anyone who says otherwise is kidding
themselves.Remember the question was are you having more fun? Not
are we glad we made the move for all the other reasons like money and exposure.
I think Utah will get better over time, perhaps not soon enough to save Coach
Whitingham's job however? As a BYU fan, I think BYU faces some of the same
challenges that Utah does playing respectable schedules against good teams as an
independent. Perhaps Coach Mendenhall's seat is going to get pretty warm
if he doesn't stop losing to the Notre Dames and Wisconsin's of the
world? Both of these proud football programs expect to compete favorably against
other good teams. We fans expect that too, and for coaches pulling down 1-2
million dollar salaries per year, they need to deliver or changes need to be
made. At least BYU is going to a bowl game again this year. If they win, it an
OK (not great) season. Go Cougs!
Yawn, another cooked up peace on the University of Utah by a newspaper owned by
the same church that owns their former rival. There is no buyers
remorse at the University of Utah. The past couple years have been rough but
none of this was unexpected. I like the comparisons to Wake Forrest, but if you
consider the fact that Wake Forrest was founding member of the ACC it
doesn't make any sense. Instead, look at the University of
South Carolina. The Gamecocks haven't won a conference football
championship since joining the SEC 20 years ago. Do they wish to return to the
ACC? Nope. Does their lack of championships make them irrelevant? Nope. Did they
have a period of losing seasons entering their new conference? Yep. As much a Y fans wish the Utes to fail, the reality is that we have already
succeeded. We are in a big boy club, the very big boy club BYU begged to accept
it, and we didn't get their on luck alone. Enjoy your trip to Murfreesboro
next year, everyone is so impressed.
On a Ute fan website the question was asked to choose between PAC-12 membership
or rather return to MWC. Of 96 votes so far - 1 selected to return. So despite
what the media tries to stir-up or BYU fans saying how horrible PAC-12
membership would be.... the fact is 98%+ Ute fans would trade our PAC-12
membership for anything!
If you took an honest poll of the Ute Program and it's fans you would get
an overwhelming "NO REGRETS". I don't believe that byu and
it's fans have any regrets either.Although, interestingly, I
think that if both teams had stayed in the MWC, Utah would be the undefeated
conference champion and on their way to another BCS bowl. byu would be 11-1 and
on their way to a quality bowl.
@ Crow, I cheer for the Aggies, not BYU.I am not saying any school
would fare any better than utah in the pac. What I am saying is the pac does NOT
make the team.ute fans thought the pac would make them better, it
doesn't. Utah is the same team. Kyle is the same coach, he is not a better
coach because of the pac.Big conferences are full of bottom dwelling
bad teams. Those teams don't beat their chest just because they are in a
big conference.Do I hope utah makes it? Sure I do, would be cool to
see.Until they do, as long as utah fans keep waving the We Are Great
banner, when they aren't there yet... ute fans should expect detractors.You had 2 bad seasons in a row, just own them and move on. But instead
of doing that, chrisb and others try to mock and make fun of anyone else in
order to try and hide the bad seasons.As long as that continues, be
ready to handle the onslaught...
Summation of comments so far: Not one Utah fan would trade PAC-12 membership
for any other suggested alternatives. Add my opinion to those expressed above.
Non-Utah fans suggest different mystical conference alignments, there op[inion
of how disappointed Utes fans should be, etc. but the Utah fans know what we
have and we LOVE it! (If I had more space I would express my
thoughts on the imagined league with Boise State, TCU, BYU, Utah, and others.
It could have happened and it would have led to a realignment of the BCS
conference teams. I feel that is one reason TCU, Boise State, and Utah was
offered membership in the conferences they joined (only to have Boise State
return to the MWC) I emphasis it is only one of the reasons, in my opinion,
Utah was admitted to the PAC-12!
Now instead of we are going to go to the Rose Bowl every single year and compete
for NC's, ute fans now just spout conference affiliation. I guess this
means Illinois and Indiana are really good teams too just "almost" there
As a Utah fan I would hate to go back to the MWC. 2004 and 2008 were both very
fun years but they were filled with crappy games that weren't much fun to
watch. Utah had a tough year but I can't think of a single game they
played other then Weber State that wasn't fun to watch. When Utah left for
the Pac-12 I suspected it would take a few years to really get their legs under
them so I'm not upset by what has happened the last 3 years. Looking
forward to Colorado and excited to see what the Utes are able to do in this
Whether you are a fan of BYU or Utah, we need to see things for what they are.
Neither BYU or Utah will truly be able to compete with the top BCS schools
because of the money factor. Utah might get more of it, but it still pales in
comparison to the amount of money that is spent on athletic budgets at USC,
UCLA, Oregon and Stanford. Believe it or not, even hate it a bit, but money
@ Ifel Of'a-sofaThe Pac12 has been rated as the toughest
conference this year and it is tough to win week in and week out. The toughness
of the conference took a toll on the teams and caused several loses for some
teams. I know you would not understand because you are a fan of an inferior
independent team that only plays cupcakes to pad their wins, but when they play
BCS caliber competition their true colors come out and they lose because they
are not the team you dream they are. BYU would not fair any better
then Utah if they were in the PAC because they can not recruit the speed
necessary at the skill positions. Your line has been suspect for the past few
years. Utah has upgraded their facility for football and it has
shown in the commitments that they have gotten this year from Florida and
Louisiana. Now with the new basketball facility being built look for them to
become a National team again. Good days to be a Ute fan.
Sofa,No, the Pac 12 would not be part of the 4 team playoff.And outside of Boise, will the WAC 2.0 EVER be part of it?LOL!
Sofa,And our same size fish is STILL bigger than your "big fish
in a small pond"LOL
Didn't even need to read the article. The answer is simply ... not in the
You know, people like to compare Utah to Arizona or ASU, but neither of those
teams were true standouts before their integration into the PAC. They were chose
because the PAC-8 was looking to expand, and they were the two schools that were
all-around better than anyone else in the region, and bringing them in made
sense. Conferences select schools, not specific programs. Anyone who thought
that our football program was going to be sitting at the top of the PAC within
the first 5 years were kidding themselves! Not when you're in arguably the
best conference in the country! The polls love the SEC, but I think in an
all-around match-up, the PAC would dominate - hands down! Success will come, but
it will take time to get the talent to do it. It may not mean more wins, but for
the University at large, it was a better move!
If Ute fans had been honest with themselves when they were invited to the PAC10,
they would have known that they were being being used by that league as a
schedule filler and an in-league "cupcake" for the big boys. Does
anybody on the hill really believe that the Utes will ever be a serious
contender for anything but first place in the bottom six? Utah's big prize
was being invited, period. That they are in denial about why is another
the mighty pac 12... if the 4 team playoff were to happen this year, they would
not even have a team involved.
@KitsutsukiWhat's it like not to have either?
I for one an happy that BYU and Utah left the MWC, or Utah State would never
have gotten in and we'd be the independent team right now. They
effectively kept the Aggies out of any conference they were in for over 40 years
so I'm not sad to see them elsewhere.
the utes want to talk about the close loses as being "almost there",
what they don't talk about is the close wins that could just have easily
been loses... ie Utah State
Chris - what you are missing is that you are the same size fish as you were
before... the pond size does not make the fish bigger.
USALover, I agree! The MWC (or new name) could have become a great conference
with natural rivals. Instead Utah followed the money and perceived prestige.
BYU was forced to leave for their own selfish reasons. The rest of the MWC
schools got shaken around by other changes. Utah has gone from a high NATIONAL
perception to nothing. (And BTW... Whittingham didn't get them there,
Urban Meyer did!) BYU NATIONALLY was mid-level in perception/attention and is
still about the same. I personally think that time will show that going to the
PAC-12 was a huge mistake. Recruiting will be harder due to losing seasons,
fans will quit going, heck 25 years ago Utah couldn't draw 20k fans because
they always lost. This lack of fan support will return. It's the team,
win/loss and to some degree, SOS that ultimately matters, not the conference
The problem is and remains the Ute teams from the last three years is worse than
the Ute teams from 08 and around that era. It's not that they are getting
any better. Getting less consistent maybe. There is hope. I think Utah can
turn things around and hope they do soon.
I didn't bother to read this article, the title was more than enough for
me. It must be slow news day because ideas like this one should never see the
light of day. USAloverSalt Lake City, UT"Can you
imagine Utah, BYU, Boise State, TCU, Utah State and Fresno State all in the same
Conference?"No, I can't. I see Utah in the Pac-12 where
they belong and soon being able to compete with every team in the conference.
Nor do I see TCU with the other four you listed. Mr. Robinson, a
more valid question is whether byu fans "yearn" for the MWC days. Maybe
you could try that angle.
Nah - Ute fans love flying their PAC12 banners & flags. Funny that I am not
seeing nearly as many Utah flags flying from cars / homes however. Wonder why
that is?If you don't have a team at least you have a
Vanceone,Once again byu fans miss the issue. I want Utah to be the
best program we can be. And a 5-7 program in the Pac 12 is better than a 10-2
program in the WAC 2.0. Utah beat Utah state when both teams were full
strength, and the Pac 12 is 9-0 against the lowly WAC 2.0(MWC) this year.Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, Stanford, Utah,
Arizona, Arizona State, UCLA, and USC would all probably win the WAC 2.0 if we
were a member of that conference.But we don't want to be.
I think a lot of Utes do, especially those who say"Mark it down!"
Two words: Heck. No.
Can you imagine Utah, BYU, Boise State, TCU, Utah State and Fresno State all in
the same Conference?
I don't miss it. I would rather see Utah play Arizona St, or UCLA and lose
in a good hard fought game; then watch them throttle New Mexico or Wyoming.
Outside of the USC and Oregon game, Utah was in every game and all of the games
were great to watch. I wish the results were differn't and a bowl game was
forthcoming, but that's the way it goes. The ASU and Oregon State games
really hurt Utah; both were oh so winnable. I also don't miss that horrible
network the Mountain. Every game was televised, and the PAC 12 channel is in HD
The thing I'd be worried most about if I was a Utes fan is apathy.
There's a reason teams like Wyoming, Colorado State, New Mexico, rarely if
ever competed in the Mountain West when BYU and Utah were there. They understood
their role as the conference doormats and that they probably were never going to
be able to expect better. This is what Utah is in the Pac-12 and once that
realization sets in things are really going to get ugly.And all for
what? To make some extra money and be able to say you're in a BCS
conference? Hope it's worth it.
Chris B is of the opinion that going 0-12 while being in the Pac 12 every year
is somehow better than going 12-0 anywhere else. I think that most
people are more rational. Being in a "big league" doesn't mean
squat, if you never win. Who cares about UConn in football? Rutgers? Temple,
for that matter? Washington State?These are all "Big
league" teams, just like Utah. Vanderbilt, a member of the mighty SEC. Who
cares?Who's more respected: Boise State, or Wake Forest? Wake
Forest is in the ACC. Boise State isn't. Who has more cachet on the
football stage? Utah is the Wake Forest of the Pac 12. I think
it's not been a good thing for the fans. Sure helps pays Wittingham's
BYU has won as many PAC 12 Championships as Utah...in every sport.
Not at all.Games have been fun to watch and very competitive.
Hopefully, a few of these close losses will turn to wins.
The funny thing about the lame big fish small fish thing everyone likes to
mention is that the small fish in the big pond is still bigger than the big fish
in the small pond. So yes, every school wants to be the biggest fish they can
be. And if being a smaller(compared to your conference) fish is STILL bigger
than the big fish in the WAC 2.0(MWC) I'll take that any day.There is exactly one school and one school only in the ENTIRE country that is
a non power conference school that wouldn't JUMP if Larry Scott and the Pac
12 told them to, and that school is Notre Dame.A couple years ago,
even last year, we weren't in the games against the best teams. This year,
we were in the OSU, ASU, and UCLA games down to the very last play.Whittingham has already proven he can take us to top 5 in the nation, and
he'll do it again.And until then, we're still bigger than
the "big fish" in provo and logan.Go Utes!