@ Ken (Chris B)I never argued BYU was a top program.They are
probably repected more nationally than Utah.But that has to do with
history and exposure.I am not defending BYU fans that struggle with
reality but the U fans have the same struggle.Both programs are pretty
irrelevant.But Utah is no powerhouse program you lost to Wazzu for crying
Evidence of a big time program:National ChampionshipBYU -
YesUtah - NoHeisman Trophy WinnerBYU - YesUtah -
NoPerennial Top 25 FinishesBYU (18 in the last 36 seasons) -
YesUtah (7 in the last 52 seasons - NoI know, Utah fans think
that playing in a BCS game is significant; sorry to burst your crimson bubbles,
but more than 50 teams have played in a BCS games, but only about a dozen of
them have won a national championship since 1984.btw, BYU has won as
many BCS championships as the entire "conference of champions" combined!
More spin from our little friend on the hill.The bottom line is
this:The Crystal Football National Championship Trophy and the
Heisman Trophy represent the epitome of major college football team and
individual success.Both trophies are displayed proudly in BYU Legacy
Hall of Fame.The Utes have never even come close to winning either
one.The best the Utes have ever done is 4th in the Coaches final
poll and 4th in the Heisman Trophy voting.Utah's best
isn't even a distant 2nd to BYU's best.Which is better,
having a trophy to collect dust, or having an empty shelf to collect dust?
@BeSmart - Your inability(or choice not to) to respond to Chris speaks volumes
about the strength of your argument! The silence(on actually addressing his
point) is deafening! Chris's strong argument is that byu is not a big time
program.And your best response is basically this "Ya, well,
neither is Utah"That the best you got? Nicely done Chris B.
"Still sad you have to go back 17 years for your last great season
isn't it?"Switch the year to 1998 and the sport to
basketball and the school to Utah.Does the argument still apply?I will answer that myself - No.Because BYU in football has
had multiple conference championships and top 25 finishes (including 2 years
ago) Utah in Basketball - Well not so much.
1978,How often do you think a team has to have a great season in
order to continue to be a national big time program?I don't
argue byu has a history, but that's all byu has. If you have to go back
nearly 20 years for the last top 5 finish, that shows a program is not big time
like their fans think.What if byu's stretch of zero top 5
finishes goes to 20 years? 25? 30?In byu fans minds they will always
be a big time program because they WERE a big time program. I think in order to
BE a big time program a big time season is needed at least every decade. Utah admittedly used to not be a big time program. Now we are. See the
last decade. Now, if we go the next 20 years with zero top 5 finishes,
I'll say Utah isn't a big time program at the time of that discussion.
Currently, when byu fans have to look back 17 years, that
doesn't speak highly of what but IS.
The title of this article is deceiving. I'm not sure if the writer was
watching the same game as me. The corners were getting toasted all game long.
There was nothing inspiring about their performance on Saturday. If anything,
it was a brutal realization that our secondary is still the weakest link to the
defense and opposing offenses will continue to exploit it. These
"inspiring" corners gave up critical third down plays that allowed Notre
Dame's offense to sustain longer drives (missed assignments, pass
interference penalties) and score points. Regardless, Go Cougs!
Chris B, what is a great season?Florida St last competed for a national
title 15 years ago in 1999UCLA went 10-2 in 2005 and not again until 1998.
98-87 since 1999Penn St hasn't been great in two decades and with all
those games wiped clean from the record books I think that it is hard to say
they've been great.Notre Dame, last year was a fluke(everyone agrees
they weren't great) last was great in 1993 Nebraska won a title in
1997 and haven't been great sinceBYU may not have the major
wins of recent years, but are much more a national program than the U has ever
dreamed of being. To say a team is great they must win consistently,and be
ranked consistently. National champiions can make someone an all-time great (see
alabama). But, just because they went to a BCS game doesn't mean they had a
"great season" You should know all about that as you played a worthless
Pitt team that finished 8-4. Far from great!
Coog Fan,"BYU has never had what are referred to as
"lock-down" corners. We have rarely been able to recruit that caliber of
athlete"Interesting, I've made the same comment before and
byu fans get after me, even going so far as to call me racist. Why
don't you think byu can recuit that caliber of athletes. Byu can recruit
great QB's, linebackers, right? What's the difference? I'd love
for you to explain why byu hasn't been able to recruit that caliber of
@ Chris B.Is a team (Utah) considered a National Power Program when they
have had 3 outright conference titles in 50 years?Texas? NopeFlorida? NopeAlabama? NopeNotre Dame? IndependentFlorida
State? NopeUSC? NopeUCLA? NopeOregon? NopePenn
State? NopeWisconsin? NopeNebraska? NopeOklahoma? NopeAuburn? NopeBYU? Nope (even though they are independent)It has
been 60 years since the Utes year in and year out that Utah was tops in their
1978,And yes 1996 was a great season and I agree byu would have
qualified for a BCS bowl.Still sad you have to go back 17 years for
your last great season isn't it?What other national power
program has to go back 17 years for their last great season?Texas?
NopeFlorida? NopeAlabama? NopeNotre Dame? NopeFlorida
State? NopeUSC? NopeUCLA? NopeOregon? NopePenn State?
NopeWisconsin? NopeNebraska? NopeOklahoma? NopeAuburn?
NopeUtah? NopeNeed we continue?
BYU's 1996 season was a big part of the BCS creation, LaVell was invited to
testify in front of Congress about the mess. But let's not forget that
getting the Cotton Bowl was still a huge deal for BYU. And to come away with a
dramatic win in front of a majority KState crowd (I was there, the place was all
purple except for about 10k Cougar fans) was a huge deal for BYU. I
hope Utah can put together competitive and winning teams in the future. I hope
BYU can put together teams to justify continued scheduling like this year.
Not really sure what game the author was watching. For the most part all ND
receivers were wide open all game long.
@Christopher B So Whitingham has proven he can beat "great teams" but
you're, once again, cellar dwellars. If he can beat "great teams"
why can't he beat poor teams to give you a 6 win season? Maybe you can
schedule Weber State, or BYU for that matter, twice in a season. UCLA, Oregon
and ASU are at least good teams if not great.@ EastCoastCoug About
KVN, on the first series of the ND game, I think on the Tommy Rhees TD throw,
KVN went after Rhees and missed him. He landed weird on his shoulder and walked
right off the field holding it limp. He sat down and the trainers attended to
him for about 5 minutes. He obviously came back and played the rest of the game,
but I wonder if that injury had any effect on his game. I didn't hear
anything about it post-game but it made me nervous to see him walk right off the
field and straight to the trainers at the bench. His stock isn't going
anywhere. He has proved who he is these past four years. You know what you get
with him and the League is tracking that.
Cornerback is the most difficult position to play defensively. The combination
of athleticism and skill development requires special athletes, and BYU has
never had what are referred to as "lock-down" corners. We have rarely
been able to recruit that caliber of athlete.We really could have
used Jordan Johnson all season; I knew when he went down with an injury right
before the season started we were in trouble. He was probably as solid a CB
last year as BYU has ever had. Having weak corners puts more pressure on the
OLB's in pass coverage and limits the flexibility to run stunts. we also
could have really used Hadley this game in run defense. Having both those guys
in our 4 losses could very well have changed the outcome.The biggest
disappointment this game was BYU's tackling - haven't seen our defense
tackle that poorly for years.
@Christopher BFair Point. BYU's last great football season was
1996 when they beat Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl and finished 14-1 with a #5
ranking. It is interesting to note that if the same rules that now
exist for BCS bowl qualification existed in 1996 BYU would have played in a BCS
bowl game.It is also true that since that time Utah has had two
great seasons that included convincing BCS Bowl Victories. It might surprise
you to know that I was cheering for them in both games. That is the
nice thing about being a BYU fan. You don't have to hate Utah.
@ Chris B.So the only barometer of prominence are victories over top 5
teams?I have to disagree with that comment.Nationally prominent
programs are built over decades and they are built by conference and National
Titles (i.e. Alabama, Notre Dame, Texas,USC).I by no means think BYU is a
nationally "prominent" team, but I would argue that they are as well
recognized as the Utes.Wyoming is not far from Utah, but I can use my
workplace as an example, almost weekly people talk about the BYU game (mainly
because BYU is considered a rival), but I heard one person talk about the U this
year after Stanford (most Wyomingites I work with recall the days Wyoming
consitently beat the U).ESPN provides exposure that even if it is just
flipping through the channels people get.The sad truth is both BYU and
Utah are mediocre at best and have been since 2009 when BYU finished 12th.Did you know that until 2004 Utah had not won an outright conference title in
50 years?My guess is Utah is looked at with the regard of Colorado and
Washington State.BYU is unique in independence so who knows.
1978,I agree, the 1990 Miami win was a huge win. Its just sad you
have to look back over 20 years to find those. What other national power has to
reference 20 years ago to substantiate their prominence?
"we have never beaten a great opponent (Miami et al went on to have mediocre
seasons)"The 1990 Miami team you are referring to finished the
season with a 10-2 record and ranked #3 in the all of the polls.If
that is a mediocre season sign BYU up for one next year!
@ east coast cougLets be honest what is the one defensive stat that really
matters?Points scored right.Just like BYUs offense they put up a ton
of yards but very little points against top competition so they are poor.BYU runs a cover 6 defense. that means that 5 players are available to rush
some times more drop in coverage.The key to zone coverage schemes in
football is pressure. The Tampa 2 defense is very similar and is based on a pass
rush.Try covering while keeping your eyes on the qb and cover a good
receiver for 4+ seconds it doesn't happen at any level of the sport in a
zone base scheme, Man schemes it rarely happens.Truth is the lack of a
pass rush is what has made the defensive backs look bad, because of the
scheme.People complain about them looking in the backfield that is their
assignment because Mendenhall's scheme is based on stopping the run,
getting teams into long down situations and getting a rush on the passer to
hurry a throw.Go play some football and try to cover a good receiver for
4+ seconds.It does not happen.
@Eastcoast.In 2008 Utah did not play in the Cotton bowl. Neither
did Alabama.And in that same year Utah beat an END of season top 10
TCU team. This year Stanford may also end in the top 10(I said may,
not will for sure)That's 3 wins against end of season(the only
rankings that matter) top 10 teams for WhittinghamGuess how many
Bronco has?ZeroYour coach talks about national titles
and he's NEVER beaten an end of season top 10 team. Utah has been terribly
inconsistent under Whittingham, but at least he's proven he's capable
of beating great teams.
cornerback play was not good. Front seven could not get to the ND quarterback
and he had plenty of time to wait for his receivers to get open and they did.
How many PI calls went against the cougar secondary? I know Daniels had at least
@ BeSmartLet's be honest...Utah beat the pants off our
secondary in a head to head - the last 4 years. There's no way we can claim
to be better by some obtuse ranking when we don't otherwise play the same
Are you kidding me? The Irish smoked those two, exploiting their lack of speed.
They passed the ball with perfect ease. Impressed? Hardly.
Let's also be honest about Van Noy. He's had a stellar career but
really was a non factor vs. ND. His stock went waaaaaay down last Saturday.I just think our coaches need to decide why they play these games and if
it is to win, they need to step it up. I don't see much realistic
acknowledgment about how much worse we played than ND. The coaches seem to think
we were in it up to the last. I've been watching BYU since the
early '70's. This is the same old BYU...win a game once in a blue moon
vs. a Texas but lose to many more that should have been won (e.g. Virginia and
Utah) and then just fall apart vs. quality competition. Other than K-State in
the Cotton Bowl ages ago, we have never beaten a great opponent (Miami et al
went on to have mediocre seasons).btw Utah has also only beaten one
quality opponent in its history: Alabama in the 2008 Cotton Bowl. The rest all
were shown to be mediocre at best. Both programs' fans get big heads.
The DB's were the worst of a bad secondary. Bronco should be ashamed of the
lack of preparation he and his staff made on both sides of the ball. And
please....fire Anae now. We can't live through another year of his play
calling and excuses. We need to get a groundswell of support for change.As for Chris B...did you really watch the BYU game?? Why? If I
don't like a team (i.e. Utah), I would never waste a valuable Saturday PM
watching them play.
These guys were not even supposed to play this year.So it is better to
give up 23 point to an 8-3 team or 49 to a 5-5 team. LOLC'mon Chris
you are mocking a decent defense when the Utes secondary has been atrocious Utah 78th in scoring defense BYU 27th. LOLWhy do you mock a better
defense than your own?BYU's problem in every game is that they are
almost dead last in Red Zone efficiency, fix that and they have a lot better
BYU lost the game based on the play of both lines. True, the DBs gave up big
plays. But if the D-Line had gotten consistent pressure on the QB those long
plays wouldn't have happened. The ND O-Line even kept BYU's LBs out
in a very consistent manner. And if the O-Line had shown up it would have
opened up the running game, which would have opened up the passing game. The
lines lost the game for BYU, not the DBs.
Why is BYU always lacking depth at the cornerback position? We don't lack
depth at Linebacker.
CB, go LOL your own cellar dweller, they need it.In terms of the game I
also agree with Mr. Cougar Colby. Hats off tp the players gutting it out
through illness and playing unfamiliar positions but the scheme needs to be
re-worked. The guys look silly running into the chests of receivers instead of
watching the ball. We have good talent, just need a new focus.
This just seems like a feel good story, player plays sick and young player gets
in by chance. With the loss and the defense giving up 235 yards rushing and
passing (470 total) in that weather, there were lots of mistakes on defense. I
think they were outplayed and that with last year's close game BYU thought
it would be an easier game.
The reason they look in the back field is the scheme BYU runs.It is a
cover 6 base zone.The corners first read is to see if it run and they go
support it.This is even heavier on the field corner (wide side) When BYU
falls back in the zone you keep your eyes forward to see the play.The
field corner has been burned but that needs to be blamed on the safety and the
corner.When they run man coverage they stay with the receiver.The
Pittsburgh Steelers run a very similar scheme.
You mean like the first series giving up a 65 yard td reception? Or the
multiple times the byu secondary got exposed after that?LOL
Couldn't agree more with CougarColby. What game was Brandon watching! The
dbs are often beaten, rarely turn around in their trail technique and face guard
or PI regularly. Anyone who has watched BYU play this year and almost any year
for that matter knows that their corners are always a weak spot. Watching
that game this past Saturday I thought to myself, finally a team that realizes
our corners can't cover and is going to exploit that weakness. Granted, due
to the crazy amount of injuries, they have been decent fill-ins, but truth of
the matter is they aren't D-1 level corners.
Brandon, I have no idea how you got the heading to this story. Sitting in ND
Stadium last Saturday, we couldn't have been watching the same game. It was
the play of Daniels and Davis that lost the game defensively. Yes the offense
needed more TDs in Blue Zone appearances, got it. But on the defensive side,
whenever they needed a 1st down they through it. 3rd and 8, 3rd and 14, etc.
etc. etc. all night long. It was ridiculous to watch in that frigid part of the
country.On another note, Howell needs to spend more time developing
these corners. I don't know what it is about BYU corners, but they NEVER
play the ball. Davis, has two INT in that game if he turns around and plays the
ball instead of the man. For the life of me, I can't understand why the
players are coached to play the man and not turn back. Look at the teams INT
numbers since Bronco took over as D coordinator in the Crowton days. I hope
something can get fixed in this area, because we have great talent and potential
in the secondary!