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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 20 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

Obama will be judged as failure or success depending upon whos talking. To me Carter/Obama will go down as the worst in modern times. To some of you, that honor will go to Reagan/Bush. So What!! The main point I want to make is it is useless to debate over Bush or any past President. The only thing that can be changed is the here and now. And here and now we have President Obama. His program is losing popularity, (not that it ever had any) and his approval rating are falling like the stock market in 1929. It is up to the one with power today to either fix things or continue to ruin things. It's up to Obama. I don't think the man has it in him. To inexperienced, bad advisors, and I think he has the kind of character flaws, (Nixon for example) that will leave his problems unfixed and will ruin his record and legacy. 3 more years. We'll see.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

With Obama it is one of 2 things. Either he is a liar when it comes to what he knew and when he knew it or else he is an incompetent leader.

Just look at the scandals surrounding his presidency. He has 2 basic excuses for not knowing about the scandals. He has used the "I didn't know about that until I saw it in the news" excuse for quite a few scandals. Doesn't that show that he is not in control of his own cabinet since the scandals have been traced to White House level officials?

His other excuse is to say that he didn't really mean what he said before or that he mis-spoke. Basically this is an admission of being a poor communicator.

So, either he is a liar or incompetent. Do we want a President that is a liar or is incompetent running this nation?

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

@Confused. Sorry you've been mislead by you radio.

Intelligence Committee found in 2008 that his administration "misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq".

Source:
Press Release of Intelligence Committee
Senate Intelligence Committee Unveils Final Phase II Reports on Prewar Iraq Intelligence

Two Bipartisan Reports Detail Administration Misstatements on Prewar Iraq Intelligence, and Inappropriate Intelligence Activities by Pentagon Policy Office

Thursday, June 5, 2008

2 bit
Cottonwood Heights, UT

embarrassed,
RE: "One can only imagine the horrors if Mitt Romney would have succeeded in fooling the American people"...

I suspect that we would be basically right were we are today IF Romney had won. No... it would not have been "horrific", "the end of the world", "cats and dogs living together", etc...

ObamaCare probably would have been delayed or redone instead of just plowing ahead with it ready-or-not... but everything else would have been pretty much the same.

I think Romney has seen business plans that were in trouble before (ie the SLC Olympics, Staples, etc) and he probably would have noticed that we didn't do any scalability testing on the website and done something about it.

---

ConservativeCommonTater,
I'm pretty sure Iraq decision was about more than just WMDs. If you can ignore all the OTHER reasons for addressing Saddam Hussein, and just focus on ONE THING... you may be able to make the case that the decision to use military force was a lie.

But then you have to explain why the decision got unanimous bi-partisan support in Congress (including Democrats)

Confused
Sandy, UT

ConservativeCommonTater

You crack me up... Is ObamaCare fully implemented yet? NO....

So it may help some now... but when the employer mandate kicks in next year.. well the being helped is going to go down substantially.

by the way, go talk to those .04 percent people and see if they care if it helps 47 million...

Second, go look at the number of American killed in Afghanistan since Obama took over. Now they are going to keep troops their until 2024?

Third, tell me what "mistake" Bush made.... just because you do not like the war in IRAQ does not make it a mistake. There was WMD's in IRAQ, There was a bounty on Bush's father, there was payment to suicide bombers by Sadaam. So not sure what "mistake" you are talking about. If you think it was a mistake, go talk to an Iraqi about it.

Confused
Sandy, UT

Happy Valley...
Sorry no Radio .. never listen to it...

Second, The "Intelligence" (that is a contradiction) committee was made up of democrats that wanted to smear the Bush administration.

The facts are 1) Congress had the same intelligence reports as the president 2) both Russia and British intelligence reports said the same thing. 3) Bush himself said that the report was flawed because AT THE TIME the intelligence community was not working together. That is why we now how HomeLand security agency.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@2bit
"ObamaCare probably would have been delayed or redone instead of just plowing ahead with it ready-or-not... but everything else would have been pretty much the same."

Depends on if Democrats still held the Senate. It would be interesting to see how Romney would've operated with a Democratic Senate when it comes to Obamacare. I wonder if he'd return to his Massachusetts way of trying to work with the other party, or if he'd be like the House and consider compromise a 4 letter word.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@2bit
"But then you have to explain why the decision got unanimous bi-partisan support in Congress (including Democrats)"

The war in Afghanistan war was near unanimous (I want to say Barbara Lee was the only one or one of few to oppose that). The war in Iraq was not unanimous at all, though it did get many Democrats there was a sizable number that opposed it.

Nate
Pleasant Grove, UT

@atl134 "The employer mandate has nothing to do with this."

Yes, it does.

If you were to check the Federal Register dated June 17, 2010 (vol. 75, no. 116) you would see estimates from the Obama administration that between 39% and 69% of employer plans would lose their grandfather status by the end of 2013. The mid-range estimate is 51%. That's a lot of millions of people. For small business employers, the projection is between 49% and 80%.

It didn't come up as an issue this year, because Obama unilaterally postponed the application of the employer mandate until the beginning of 2015. This means that 90-day cancelation notices will start going out in October of 2014 -- one month before midterm elections. This is why Democrats up for reelection are so panicked.

I'll be surprised if one of them doesn't co-author the repeal bill himself.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@happy2behere
"To me Carter/Obama will go down as the worst in modern times. To some of you, that honor will go to Reagan/Bush. "

I'd go with the likes of Buchanan, Pierce, and Hoover at the bottom. I'd put Reagan somewhere in the middle, Obama in the teens (with an eventual range of around 12-25 depending primarily on how the healthcare bill turns out years down the road), and W. Bush somewhere in the mid 30s.

The Deuce
Livermore, CA

To: embarrassed Utahn! - First of all, if Mitt Romney were in this office, he would have a far greater understanding of this particular issue than does our current president. He also has a much better knowledge and understanding of how business works. So don't be comparing apples to oranges. Second, the American people were sold a bill of goods that had never been fully vetted. Even the great Nancy Pelosi stated that we must first pass the law to know what is in it. She was on Meet the Press last Sunday and did a horrible job trying to defend that statement. I actually felt embarrased for her. Yes, this was President Obama's agenda and it was rushed out long before it was ready. Yes, he did not understand what the problems were even though we now find out that these issues were brought up to him. Have other presidents made the same type of mistake, yes!. But we are dealing with this mistake now and we want to get this right or corrected or thrown out, if thats what it takes.

silo
Sandy, UT

@ 2 bits
"Google it... Democrats actually had the locks changed on the doors to keep Republicans out of the chambers where they were discussing the legislation!"

Not true.

In October 2009, democrats did change locks on a committee room door. However, the committee meeting in question had absolutely nothing to do with the PPACA and nothing to do with legislation at all. In fact it was a meeting by the House Oversight and Governmental Reform Committee to discuss Countrywide Mortgage.

I googled it. Either you failed to do the research, or you lied when you tried to tie the lock changing incident to PPACA legislation.

That you posted this misinformation as a comment in this particular article is thick with irony, hypocrisy or both.

happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

atl134

Well, my definition of "modern times" is post WW2 or say FDR forward. As for those other Presidents, I really haven't studied enough to have an opinion. Obama does still have 3 more years, so I might be premature to label him as bad as I think he is. However, I don't see it in his nature to change much, so I'm going on the assumption that his high point as President will have been giving the order to kill Bin Laden, killing many other terriorists with drone strikes, giving the order to save many others with military action. His military successes certainly have been much better than Carters, but one can't deny that Obama also inherited from Bush not only a bad economy, but his military policy too. And so I don't give full credit to Obama for that anymore than I give full blame to Obama for the bad economy. I only blame him for doing what I think has been the wrong things to bring this country out of the bad economy. And, I sound like a broken record, adding 6 plus trillion to the debt.

ConservativeCommonTater
West Valley City, UT

to: "Confused"

"by the way, go talk to those .04 percent people and see if they care if it helps 47 million..."

The Republican way, "I've got mine and I don't care if no one else gets theirs."

Why don't you ask the 47 million if they care that the .04% have to get something different. You will find that you are outvoted.

Yes, you are right about Bush having other reasons for starting and unfunded war in Iraq. Bush wanted to be America's Greatest War Hero, surprising since he essentially deserted his position in the Texas ANG to work on a Republican political campaign.

GW Bush also started the war in Iraq in part because "He (Saddam) tried to kill my daddy."

As for the WMD's, we're still waiting to find the ones you and Bush claim were there.

You also overlooking the Republican mantra of low taxes and less government, while starting 2 wars and not funding either, but putting them on the credit card.

But, that's different.

Confused
Sandy, UT

ConservativeCommonTater

Your response to my .04 percent is pretty predictable from a liberal... Yet, you have no problem with taking from others WHAT they earned and giving to yourself... interesting huh?

Second, Google about WMD's found in IRAQ. There are several sources that confirmed the finding of WMD's, just not any "New" ones.

Third, The "unfunded" of the wars is erroneous, it was funded fully by congress. Not sure why you liberals always say that it was unfunded.. it was part of Bush driving up the debt.

fourth, I never said I liked Bush and ALL his decisions, He made some real bad decision when it came to economy and the budget, but that does not negate the fact that his decision to go into IRAQ was wrong.

and lastly, The GOP party during the time of Bush II is what pushed this country to the fiscal cliff we faced, now the democrats and Obama are determined to push us over the cliff without a parachute.

Hemlock
Salt Lake City, UT

Bush's mistake in Iraq did not result in 100,000 much less 500,000 Iraqi deaths. The Shiite-Sunni conflict is the 1200 year old problem. More US troops have died in Obama's Afghanistan war than in Iraq. Mr. Obama adopted the Afghan war soon after his election and though he would like to blame Bush, even Jay Carney wouldn't put that forth.

lcg
Bluffdale, UT

I am amazed that anyone could say Obama DIDN'T lie about this. Every speech he gives is veted by dozens of people and every word is examined. This was an out right lie - not just once but at least 29 times. For those who excuse this by vilifying Bush, remember Bush took every bit of information he had to Congress who discussed at length and took a vote on where to go to war with the information they had. The vote was to do just that. In addition the US had the support of dozens of nations with access to the same data. In contrast - Obama was well aware that a good percentage of people would lose their coverage under Obamacare and be pushed into the exchanges. It was the plan all along.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:2bits

"But then you have to explain why the decision got unanimous bi-partisan support in Congress (including Democrats)"

More Democrats voted against the Iraq War Resolution than voted for it.
Specifically, 111 yeas, 147 nays

Republicans 263 yeas, 7 nays

one vote
Salt Lake City, UT

When did George Bush apologize for Iraq? People died there and are still being blown p weekly due to the destabilization.

Iron Rod
Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Cunfused
Sandy, Urah

Please tell us more about "the weapons of mass destruction that were found in Iraq after the invasion "

I some how must have missed it.

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