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Published: Monday, Nov. 18 2013 6:20 p.m. MST

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ksampow
Farr West, Utah

atl134: Many of the "uninsured" choose to handle their own medical finances rather than paying a monthly premium to an insurance company to subsidize other peoples' health care.

Cristoph: One reason the Dow is so high is that the economy is doing so poorly that investors believe the fed. will continue its "quantitative easing" (buying bonds and keeping interest rates artificially low). Quoting from CNN Money: The central bank has been buying $85 billion in bonds every month since September 2012, and has said it will continue to do so until the job market improves "substantially." The program is now nearing $1 trillion in total, yet that goal remains elusive.

LoveLife
Riverton, UT

Esquire,

I respectfully disagree with your assessment that it's "website problems, nothing more" as if the website isn't a big deal. You've heard about single mom Jessica Sanford from Washington state, who thanked President Obama by letter for the affordable insurance? Website errors gave her wrong information and she still can't afford insurance. Many people who may use the federal exchange haven't even seen their potential rates yet. It all revolves around the website.

There aren't "months" left. The healthcare website states, "If you enroll in a private health insurance plan any time between October 1, 2013 and December 15, 2013 and make your first premium payment, your new health coverage starts January 1, 2014." Many people who lost their policy will want insurance on 1/1/14. Subsidies can't be verified or payments made if the website doesn't work.

Another article from this morning: Exclusive: Expert to warn Congress of Healthcare website security bugs--Reuters

Don't forget that Obama and several Democrats have repeatedly and knowingly lied about Obamacare-this is undisputed. I don't think it's all Americans who are screwed up, but perhaps just the Americans that continue to believe someone who lies to them.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "atl134" I hate to tell you this, but you are completely wrong about Congress' ability to fix this mess they created. Yes the US spends the most, but as a whole the US healthcare system is actually the best in the world. We have the highest cancer survival rate, are able to respond to illnesses the fastest, and when you account for accidental deaths the US has the longest life expectancy.

Lets look at what the ACA has done. It has raised the cost of healthcare by raising insurance by an average of 32% and has added all sorts of taxes onto the companies that make the devices needed for healthcare. We may be paying 17% now, but thanks to the ACA that will probably increase closer to 20%.

You should also realize that less than 1% of the US population is uninsured and prior to the ACA was unable to get insurance. Most that were uninsured were that way because of choice. By supporting the ACA you are saying that you know how to run other people's lives better than they do.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@American Patriot
"At this point I figure you are out numbered by those who know the truth of the matter by at least a hundred million (and counting) or more that have just lost their insurance"

The estimate is that only 10-15 million would be affected by this, so that's a totally false statement of yours.

Secondly, I was saying that the old healthcare system was extremely expensive and in need of some sort of reform (whether or not Obamacare is the right reform is a different matter). What did I say that was wrong?

I'm pretty sure you voted for Romney. Romneycare signed up under 200 people the first month. Obamacare signed up over 100,000 the first month. These things take time, but only conservative plans like Romneycare and Medicare Part D which also had a slow start, are excused by conservatives. Typical...

Virginians for BYU
Lebanon, MO

As I have understood the advertised intent of the ACA was to do the following:
1. Make Health insurance available to everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions
2. Improve coverage by mandating minimum coverage scenarios
3. Lower the cost of healthcare insurance by increasing the competition among insurance providers.
4. Make health insurance more affordable by offering subsidies so those in lower income brackets.
5. Be self funded so that the ACA does not contribute to the national debt.

Anyone feel free to add to the list.. Right now I would give it a score of 2 out of 5.

To date, if you add the amount of money the government spent on the national website to the money states were given to create their own websites... Our country has spent almost 5 billion dollars.

If someone would have said we were going to spend 5 billion dollars on websites so that people could sign up for Obamacare I am sure everyone would have agreed that there was a better way that would cost substantially less. I wonder how many years of cancelled White house tours it would take to save 5 billion dollars?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@techpubs
"Had you said $690 or even $1200 I would have you."

Mine was 1,500 just for an afternoon stay in a hospital room (17,000 total for the procedure and everything). Good thing I had insurance.

@The Rock
"1. Allow insurance to be sold across state lines."

That's a race to the bottom.

"3. Move to catastrophic care policies with high deductibles."

Wait, Republicans want more junk policies? Why don't you just play the lottery, at least you can control how much debt you get into that way?

"6. Those treated at the ER without insurance have to pay the bill unless they are too poor."

That's already the case.

@I-Am-I
"So we can conclude like adults that the ACA has led to (1) fewer or at best the same amount of people having health insurance (2) those who do have health insurance are getting it at a higher price."

The number of uninsured in 2010 was 49.9 million. In 2011 it was 48.6 million (census bureau stats). There's no evidence that fewer people have health insurance. As for higher premiums, you failed to account for the subsidies.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Redshirt
"the US healthcare system is actually the best in the world."

Only if you can afford it. My uncle passed away in December after a month long hospital battle. His healthcare costs that month added up to over half a million dollars. Guess who can't afford that? His family.

"It has raised the cost of healthcare by raising insurance by an average of 32%"

That's false. Consult the factcheck article "Health Insurance Premium Spin" that finds that the CBO notes a 10-13% premium increase that is largely tied to an increase in benefits people will have.

@Virginians for BYU
It does 1, 4, and 5 (jury is out on 3 and it was doing 2 but the "fix" in this article pulls back on it temporarily). It also expands Medicaid, expands the age someone can stay on their parents' plan, and ends lifetime and annual caps.

LoveLife
Riverton, UT

Pagan,

"What is the name of the plan?"-- H.R.3121 - American Health Care Reform Act of 2013

"How many pages?" 191

Sponsored by David Roe, TN on 9/17/13

It is still in committee, but it doesn't really matter if it passes. Harry Reid wouldn't bring it up for a vote anyways.

riverofsun
St.George, Utah

Anyone of this DN forum taken the time to read about the Koch Brothers involvement in the sabotaging of the ACA?
Obvious as the odd colored suntan on John Buehner's face, that this is what's happening.
No other valid explanation for such a mess.

Tom in CA
Vallejo, CA

"@Pagan,

I don't know how you missed it but the Republicans do have a solution to this."

Rock - she missed it because love is blind. Liberal thinking originates from emotion. Conservative thinking originates from the brain. That's the difference.

But to the topic, and what I wanted to post:

Obama is an amateur, and has surrounded himself with amateurs. They have no capacity to accomplish anything, let alone try to take over one sixth of the American economy by the Obamacare cram down. The so called Affordable Care Act is not about health coverage - in fact it is about Big Government Control over America.

UtahBruin
Saratoga Springs, UT

@Esquire

The deadline is not months, it is now days. And you said "It seems to me that no matter what this President does, he will be viciously attacked by the ill-informed, bad faith, pile-on, destroy at all cost sycophants. The clamor for change, he gives it to them, then the complain even louder." Who's the ill informed?

@Pagan

"The 'fix' is better, than the alternative. Which is more of nothing from the Republican party." And what have the Dems done? Let me help, I will tell you the answer. "You have to pass it to see what's inside of it." -NP, maybe a little more homework should have been done instead the hurry to get it out there without even the author of the thing knowing what is in it. This is the Dem way, hurry it up and pass it and then we can blame the Republicans and they can fix it later. But it sure makes us look good. Democrats are Politicians. Republicans are businessmen. Thats the difference.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "atl134" you are right, the 32% is a myth. According to Forbes, the increase is really 41%. See "49-State Analysis: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Premiums By Average Of 41%" in Forbes. If your uncle wasn't able to afford insurance before the ACA would he have been able to afford it after a 41% increase? You also assume that all of the charges in his treatment were covered. You also have neglected to tell us about the economic standing of your uncle. According to a study from a few years ago 38% of the uninsured could afford insurance, but chose not to buy it. Could you uncle afford insurance? If he chose not to buy it, who's fault is that? Why blame the system because of the choices that your uncle made? From there you have 57% that qualify for government insurance programs but chose not to enroll. Again, if you uncle fits that classification, why blame the system for your uncle's choices?

UtahBruin
Saratoga Springs, UT

@atl134

100,00 in the first month? Now subtract the number of those that were medicaid. We now are in single to small digits.

"The estimate is that only 10-15 million would be affected by this" - And that is not enough for you to think there is a problem. Now when business' are affected next year, that number grows to over 100 Million, and these are only the early numbers. If 10 or 15 Mil doesn't do it for you, does over 100 Mil do the trick.

You keep saying people don't know what they are talking about. Do you? This is a disaster, I do not even get how you defend it. You can't think politically, you have to think like business to what is best for this country. Even if ObamaCare survives it will kill itself. There is not enough money to come in to pay for it. I would rather pay the penalty and save thousands of dollars than to buy into his government controlled system.

jasonlivy
Orem, UT

@Pagan

Where you're wrong is defending this horrendous piece of legislation! Thank goodness the Republicans had nothing to do with it!

The government's place is not being my health care provider. That has always been a nightmare scenario. Your feeble attempts to bat for your team and defend this law is falling on deaf ears.

The only true solution to this debacle is to scrap Obamacare completely!

As I see it, the one positive is the incredibly negative effect this will have on the Democratic party. Hopefully people will wake up and see that an increase in government only means less freedoms, more dependency, and crippling debt...and vote accordingly.

This is Obama's presidency. There is no more blaming Bush…sorry.

UtahBruin
Saratoga Springs, UT

@buingalow

First of all, you say... "But many of the GOP and critics are quick to dismiss that idea that he was naive to this fact.""

This is his plan, it is named after him. Why would or should he be naive to it? He should have known what was in it. He didn't even read it, Pelosi didn't even read it. Nobody read it accept (R-WY) Senator Mike Enzi who predicted all of this failure. Maybe some more due diligence should have been given to him for his efforts. Instead we had Obama making promises he couldn't keep, and Pelosi telling us we had to pass something first to find out what was in it. Well, isn't this one heck of a surprise. If this is OK for you. I have some documents I would like you to sign. Once you sign them, then you can read them. You wouldn't do that would you?

JoeCapitalist2
Orem, UT

The Rock: "Now stop saying the Republican's don't have a plan."

Save your breath. To people like Pagan and atl134 anything short of a huge government plan that takes over the health care industry and makes everyone who can afford health insurance pay way more than they need to in order to subsidize millions who can't/won't (i.e. a different clone of Obamacare) is not a real plan.

Just like calling all those perfectly good health insurance policies that consumers bought and liked "junk policies" because they don't cover everything under the sun; liberals will never support a plan that doesn't completely uproot the whole healthcare system.

Things like medical savings accounts don't work in the liberal world because you control it, not them.

LoveLife
Riverton, UT

Hmm, wondering if anyone has paid any attention to the House hearings this morning with Henry Chao.

From National Review: "A chief official responsible for building the federal health-insurance exchange revealed that as much as 70 percent of the system still needs to be built. Henry Chao, the deputy chief information officer for Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, told a House subcommittee that the administration still needs to construct the payment systems and other 'back office' functions, which constitute 60 to 70 percent of the system." (video at NRO).

60 to 70%? They need to construct the payment system? That would mean that zero people have actually paid for their plans and probably why Obama and HHS included plans that were in "shopping carts" with their enrollment numbers.

Unbelievable.

Bungalow, Obama knew: "'The president received regular briefings on various aspects of implementing the [Affordable Care Act], including the recommendations from this review and the steps that CMS, HHS and others had taken to address those recommendations,' press secretary Jay Carney said of a McKinsey report that House Republicans provided to news outlet"--Politico

Back Talk
Federal Way, WA

Why go through all of this for only a one year delay in these plans being cancelled? The lie would still be a lie next year.

People only focus on what happens to the individual market. I would like to see the media report on what effect this law is having on the employer group plans. Those plans "arent available" as they were before either. Lots of deceit in this law, just like always when goverment makes us promises.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

one of the rules of engineering is not to waste time on a bad design. There comes a point where you cut your losses - scrap the whole thing and swallow your pride and start over. Get some new perspective and fresh ideas. Some things just can't be fixed and instead of spinning your tires in the mud going nowhere it is best to just stop the car - get out and walk. Obamacare - in every imaginable way is a nightmarish tragedy. The law is rotten and so is the web site. The web site is in MUCH better shape than the law and "might" be able to be fixed at least to the point where you can use it. The law will never work. The time - money - effort wasted trying to fix the law could be spent brain storming on a new law that actually DOES fix healthcare in America.

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

Every public policy debate should begin with three questions:
Should we?
Can we?
How?

ACA has never been settled on the first question: SHOULD our government regulate medical care? Over half of America has never been sold on the idea in the first place. It was a tough sell to Congress, failed three times, and was finally passed using bribes, procedural tricks and a last-minute push.

Can we? Well, apparently not. Washington has note been very effective at carrying out policies, and this one is HUGE.

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