Comments about ‘Evangelical leader says commonality with Mormons deeper than differences’

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Published: Saturday, Nov. 16 2013 7:45 p.m. MST

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Thinkin\' Man
Rexburg, ID

As a Mormon I don't strive to be accepted by other Christians. First and foremost, I strive to be understood correctly.

Most of the animosity towards Mormons is based on incorrect or purposefully misleading statements about our beliefs.

maclouie
Falconer, NY

vidanuevatx:

It's not either the Evangelicals are wrong or the LDS are wrong. By definition, Evangelicals are wrong. It's either the Catholics are wrong or the LDS are wrong. The problem with "Catholics" is which "Catholics" are we talking about.

If the Catholics did not stray from Historical Christianity there would be no Protestantism or Evangelicalism. Presently, Catholics, Protestants, and Evangelical believe in a Contemporary Christianity, not a Historical Christianity.

But in the end it's all about Priesthood Authority, not about the details of anyone's belief. We all believe things that aren't in the Bible. It's about God's Authority. Always has been.

Strider303
Salt Lake City, UT

IMO there is no center or common core of doctrine or belief in U.S. Protestantism today. Each church is a democracy where the adherents elect, select or hire their hierarchy. The masses control the sermon and doctrine. Almost all agree doctrinally that Catholic, Orthodox and Mormons aren't Christian as they see the Elephant, hence the tacit permission to disparage and show less than "Christian" manners to the aforementioned three faiths.

I am of the opinion that the era of Protestant influence in politics and the town square is on the wane. The mega-churches of protestantism do not preach much hard doctrine and do not demand adherence to their individual faith's historical creeds or doctrines. As such congregations could be seen as fair weather sailors who may not stick around for the storms of life but seek out another more comfortable harbor. As such their rising generations are weak in doctrine and commitment.

To paraphrase the adage attributed to Joseph Smith that a religion that did not require everything we have cannot save us, nor produce a next generation of dedicated adherents willing to fight the good fight.

MyqRic
Florence, OR

Actually, a lot of LDS look forward to going to hell--to teach its inhabitants the way out. Jesus Christ always has been the way out and always will be.

maclouie
Falconer, NY

PJ in WI:

What's your point? Have you not talked to a Mormon before?

The answer to you question "Can a Mormon say they believe what it [Apostles Creed] says" is, IMHO, yes with one caveat: which translation/version and what does the phrase "catholic church" mean?

BTW, seems this creed is rather anti-trinitarian. Interesting. I guess it could be asked if Evangelicals, et al, believe the Apostles Creed word for word.

harmanjd
Rochester, NY

Cassandove: I think the point here is NOT that you need to "learn" from evangelicals about doctrine, but that you might be able to learn from evangelical practice about loving the Savior and ministering to Heavenly Father's children. I have great admiration for anyone in whom I see a genuine desire to live their lives to reflect those two values. Don't you?

ThePlains
Canada, 00

Mormons need to emphasize their teachings that Jesus is the first spirit child of heavenly parents and that Joseph Smith taught Heavenly Father was once a man who became God. This will help explain some of the key differences to investigators.

sashabill
Morgan Hill, CA

PJ in WI, The Apostles' Creed speaks very plainly of the Son (Jesus) ascending and sitting at the right hand of his Father (God). It sounds to me like it is speaking of two separate, individual, personages. A traditional Christian would have a much bigger problem with that concept than a Mormon would.

donn
layton, UT

RE: KTC John How is your Jesus different than my Jesus? OK,

Hear, O Israel: The LORD(YHWH) our God(Elohim) is one LORD(YHWH).(Deut 6:4).

YHWH(Jehovah) is the personal name of the God of Israel. It is translated "LORD" (with either all caps or with small caps to keep it distinct from occurrences of "adonai"). Elohim is the generic term for god or gods.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with 'God', and the Word(Jesus)was 'God'.(John 1:1)

No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God…( John 1:18(NIV).

" we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"(Titus 2:13 NET). This passage speaks of one person not two. The key to understanding it is the use of Greek articles.

RE: randyclappern, I've never heard a church leader demonize other religions/faiths.

We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense…the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than Christianity of the nineteenth century.” (J of D 6:25)

rlsintx
Plano, TX

A common bridge to understanding what LDS believe regarding the role of Christ can be found by simply reading one chapter in the Book of Mormon. 2 Nephi 31. I have shared and read this with many of my protestant (mostly) friends through the years, with increased understanding as a result. I highly recommend it, and you can find the LDS scriptures online at lds.org by clicking on "Scriptures".

Bob K
porland, OR

ThePlains
Canada, 00
Mormons need to emphasize their teachings that Jesus is the first spirit child of heavenly parents and that Joseph Smith taught Heavenly Father was once a man who became God. This will help explain some of the key differences to investigators.

Yeah, like the evangelicals will EVER accept mormon doctrine as equal to theirs! Maybe it will happen when Pat Robertson flies on a pig over Salt Lake?

They ONLY want you as partners in "fighting the heathen influence".
They will never respect you

maclouie
Falconer, NY

donn:

Nice examples but that is only part and selected verses of the Old and New Testament. The rest speak of God the Father and Jesus Christ, God the Son, both being gods and both being individuals. Either that or your definition of god describes a god with a multiple personality complex.

Pops
NORTH SALT LAKE, UT

I don't understand the claims there is little or no common ground between LDS and Evangelical beliefs. If one were to draw a Venn diagram of what each believes about Jesus, the vast majority of doctrinal points would lie in the overlapping area of the diagram. That's only one part of what the two faiths have in common, and it is substantial.

Jesus is the Son of God - check. Jesus was born of Mary - check. Jesus' teachings as recorded in the Bible - check. Jesus performed many miracles - check. Jesus suffered for the sins of all mankind - check. Jesus was crucified and rose the third day - check. We can receive grace through the Atonement of Jesus - check. Jesus lives - check. Jesus saves - check. This is the core of Christianity, and we agree on it.

LDSareChristians
Anchorage, AK

Donn posted:
RE: randyclappern, I've never heard a church leader demonize other religions/faiths.

We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense…the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than Christianity of the nineteenth century.” (J of D 6:25)

I haven't HEARD this either, happen long before I was born. But I have read it. ;-) I haven't heard (last 50 years) any LDS leaders demonize any other religions either. I can find thousands of folks right now who demonized mine.

Also: The Journal of Discourses is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is a compilation of sermons and other materials from the early years of the Church, which were transcribed and then published. It included some doctrinal instruction but also practical teaching, some of which is speculative in nature and some of which is only of historical interest. source: search Journal of Discourses at lds.org

Tzadikim
Bakersfield, CA

Unbelievable:

1- That Dr. Mouw would make such disparaging and incorrect statements. He does not represent literal, Bible-Only, Christ-Only, the Cross-Only Christians. Christ's Disciples' call is to feed His sheep His pure Word of Truth, not form partners with apostate, "other" gospels. Not one verse states that followers of Christ are to climb on board with every new prophet, every new claim of revelation, every new salvation and theology: Just the opposite is mandated- "Hold firm the gospel first delivered to you", (Apostle Paul).

2- The abject lack of knowledge here by LDS on their own founder's original statement about "all Christianity and its professors" being completely false; the Bible being incorrect, untrustworthy and "not one word possibly" above reproach. Did none of you attend seminary or read Church History or the writings of Joseph Smith?

Why does Donn in Layton quote more LDS doctrine than the LDS here?

3- I was born and raised Mormon for 35 years, sixth generation. I certainly know the difference between the Biblical and the LDS Christ and gospels. The only thing the two have in common are our love for people and family.

Tzadikim
Bakersfield, CA

Yes, Dr. Mouw, we have "a lot to talk about": Your misunderstanding of Biblical mandate, what our earthly call is, and an accurate understanding of Mormon Doctrine- current day.

No where did our Savior Jesus call us to fight for religious equality. He did tell us to love people, respect them, and if we love Him and the lost, to preach The Truth to them- not to sing around the campfire and become political activists. If people have spiritual cancer, He said to bring them the Cure- His Cross. Not the latest or the earliest aberration, Gethsemane PLUS Calvary. He said to call a lie a lie, and to fear the one who can "appear as an Angel of Light."

Both Peter and Paul said to witness with "gentleness and respect", sharing the "hope that is within us".

One post got our current blend of American mish-mash correct. But though dying we might be, Biblical (100%) Christians will not acquiesce to the liberal, progressive, remake and whitewash of God's Word. We will go down as having been faithful to His revealed Word- not to the first century Gnostics, the fourth century apostates, the 19th century cultists.

EternalPerspective
Eldersburg, MD

“Rockyrd” and “Thinkin\' Man” stated truths important to us Mormons. Yet, should we fail to affirm our testimony of the latter day work of the Lord?

Of the man casing out devils in Jesus name, the Savior said, "for he that is not against us is for us". So, we must consider this also with Christian brothers and sisters not of our faith.

But, is compromise the only means to gain strength in the common fight against persecutors of Christianity? I think not as we ought to first distinguish the unique belief that the Lord did in reality restore His Church through the prophet Joseph Smith. We should affirm how God’s unchangeable pattern of calling prophets by revelation to build up His kingdom on the earth is operative today.

When we lean only on Christian commonalities for the sake of making peace with other churches, our unique message of the long prophesized restoration becomes distilled. As the Lord’s covenant people of the last dispensation, we have great responsibility to bring souls unto Christ. But, in my experience, this happens best when we follow the Holy Ghost in boldly declaring the truth.

raybies
Layton, UT

fwiw, as an LDS member, I've always been open to the commonalities and friendships with evangelical christians. LDS leadership has been open and encouraging about fostering positive relations for... well...at least since as long as I've been alive. We've been saying for years that we love and adore Jesus Christ as redeemer and Savior of the world. I guess my point is that this fostering openness thing is almost entirely upon the evangelicals and their willingness to be honest about the LDS people, rather than villifying them. it's heartening to see there are those realizing the last nearly 200 years of persecution is misplaced and wrongheaded.

donn
layton, UT

RE: "Pops Jesus was born of Mary.'

True, but The “PALE” of Christianity believes the birth of Jesus was a unique miracle by the Holy Ghost."
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Luke 1:35). But,

The Birth of the Savior was a natural act as are our children; it was the result of a natural action He partook of flesh …( Jof D 8:115)

RE: Maclouie, describes a god with a multiple personality complex. You agree with;
The (Jof D 8:199)”With a regard to true theology , a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world .

Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225 AD), used the term Trinity (Latin, trinitas), giving the oldest extant formal exposition of a Trinitarian theology. Other Latin formulations that first appear in his work are "three Persons, one Substance" Latin "tres Personae, una Substantia".

3 persons one God. "one in substance”. .., the express image of his person( Greek 5287,hypostasis substance, being).Hebrews 1:3.

aceroinox
Farmington, UT

@PJ in WI--I grew up Presbyterian, memorized the Apostle's Creed and recited it weekly. I remember being concerned as a boy that I was professing belief in the "holy catholic church", since I was not a Roman Catholic. Our pastor explained to me that it merely meant the universal church founded by the Savior when He was on the earth. That interpretation in confirmed by dictionaries contemporary to the Apostle's Creed's translation into English.

I've now been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for 44 years, and can't think of anything in the Apostle's Creed that I don't believe wholeheartedly. If you believe there are discrepancies with LDS beliefs, I suggest you have some grave misunderstandings of those beliefs.

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