RE Talking SportsMaybe I don't understand. Are you telling me
the Ute Tribe has a patent on the word "Ute"? If that's the case
then being half English I will be seeking representation for my law suit(s)
starting with the company Dana For Men for my piece of the sales deriving from
the marketing of English Leather Cologne. I understand the NCAA
ruling. My point was this, the roles should be reversed and were reversed years
ago. To me it just seems like these Tribes are trying to get something for
nothing. I have no problem with the University having to pay and they should pay
but how much is enough? Think about Notre Dame for a minute. The Fighting
Irish, what if Ireland decides they want a piece of the ND pie? How come the
NCAA has not made a ruling for that?
Has everyone forgot that the U may just be the best thing that ever happened to
the Ute tribe? look at all the other Indian tribes in the country that no one
knows about. Everyone who has watched a Ute football game at one point has
figured out that the Utes are an Indian tribe. The U is a "missionary"
for the tribe in the same way that BYU is a missionary (according to Bronco
Mendenhall) for the LDS church. The U cant even use the Ute name as
a mascot because of an NCAA rule that requires the tribe to give the school its
blessing. The Ute tribe is just trying to make more money out of
this whole thing. They already have the same rights as the rest of Americans and
are eligible for just as much if not more financial aid to pay for college as
the rest of the country. If people in this country really want to
turn away from our past racism, then we need to treat everyone the same. That is
the only way to be truly equal. No more handing out benefits to someone just
because they aren't white.
sid 6.7You obviously don't get it.It's the Ute
tribe, not Utah, that holds all of the cards in whether the U is allowed to
continue using the "Ute" nickname.If Utah doesn't meet
the Ute tribe demands, the Ute tribe will simply pull the rug on the nickname
and Utah will be left to scramble for a new nickname.
The Tribe has gotten enough and frankly they should be thankful and honored a
Major University uses their name. The U did not pick the Ute name as a way to
take advantage of the tribe they picked the name to honor their local heritage
as most teams do. Let's face it, Swoop is just plain stupid.
Bring back the Teepee in the South end zone and the Ute warrior on the beautiful
horse at the beginning of the game. Instead of using this issue as
a tool to get free money and education maybe the Ute tribe could use this
situation as a way to educate the followers of the University Utah to their
history and heritage. Maybe they could set up a visitors center near the
stadium where they could be well represented. I'm pretty sure most of the
out of state people the home games bring in would have an interest in learning
the culture. They could create community services in and outside of the Tribe
in conjunction with the U for all of the Utah people. That would do a lot more
for their people than free money and education.
This whole issue is quite simple. It isn't about human or civil rights,
it's about a contractual agreement between the U of U and the Ute Nation.
The ute nation wants payment for the use of their name. That's fair...I
think if any sports team, university, or business wants to use an established
name or logo they should pay royalties to whomever they're borrowing the
name from. That's business. If the tribe wants that payment in the form of
tuition waivers, what's wrong with that? It's now up to the university
to decide if the use of the ute name is worth the royalties (tuition waivers)
the tribe is asking for. Lets not turn this into some argument about
civil rights or giving "handouts" to a protected group. It's
business...and the U of U will need to decide what using the ute name is worth,
plain and simple. If that contract proposal is rejected by the university they
can choose a different name to represent their sports teams. This isn't a
political issue...the ute tribe wants royalties/compensation, not reparations
for civil rights violations.
Well if that is the case, then every black person should get free tuition and
free money every month to live on since they were slaves for so many years
here...oh, wait they already do get free tuition and free money to live on...my
Anything that would move more Ute Tribe members towards college would be a big
plus, regardless of the mascot issue. The State might consider a tuition waiver
for all native Americans that attend a State college. Would be
interesting to see the data on how many Ute Tribe members attended the U of U in
the past five years. Unfortunately, I believe you could count the number on
your fingers and toes. This is not a high-dollar issue for the U at all.
How about the Utah Thinskins?
@JohninSLCThere are actually several "Ute" tribesThe
southern Utes the Ouray Ute indian tribethe Uintah Ute indian
tribeand the Ute mountain tribe.
I am always amazed at the amount of people who are afraid to use their real
name. Everyone in this country has the personal responsibility to become better.
Have you ever been on a reservation? Lots of really poor condition housing
units. The government throws tons of money at these tribes and everything still
goes to crap. The Indian nations need to learn to be better people, without
loosing their heritage. Throwing money at a terrible problem will accomplish
nothing, if the people themselves desire no change for the better. You have to
qualify to get into the U or any other great university. I am against the
freebee, earn the scholarship like everyone else. The same goes for any other
group of people who think they deserve something for free. If you think I am
wrong, look at this country and its mess. You have no Idea what is coming. Jeff
Would it be OK if a the Washington Redskins or the Utah Utes changed their name
to the Native Americans? I wonder. Should Notre Dame give free
tuition to all of Irish decent?
This whole "I'm an American Indian" thing has gotten waaaay blown
out of proportion.Florida State University no longer is allowed to
do their tomahawk chant/arm motion.The NFL's Washington
Redskins are being pressured to change their name and their logo. (How in the
heck can calling a fictitous red-skinned male profile drawing a
'red-skin' be offensive? If it was a drawing of a black man should we
call him a pink skin?)And Ute tribal members get tuition
scholarships but now demand 100% free tuition?I'm a middle aged
white male. In today's world I'm the biggest minority there is.
Apparently, white males caused every problem under the sun and now
'we' have to pay for it.Did the U.S. government treat the
former native America Indians terribly?Yes, they did.Did
"those" Indians and their surviving children deserve renumeration?They sure did.But how many generations are 'owed'
something for doing nothing?I didn't cause their suffering.You didn't cause their suffering.Been on an Indian
reservation lately?The 'entitlement' mindset has destroyed
those it was intended to help and has done so for generations.
Article quote: "Attached to the letter was a copy of an April 22 Business
Committee resolution which states that the prior memorandum of understanding
between the tribe and the school "does not go far enough to promote tribal
human resources."Is that code for "we deserve to go to
college for free"?Apparently, it is. Another article quote:
"Two specific terms the tribe will seek before inking a new agreement,
according to the resolution:.....A switch from scholarships to tuition waivers
for all Ute tribal members who attend the university."Free
tuition for Ute Indians who attend the UofU?Why?Just
because in the great gene pool in the sky, these people just happened to be born
into an American Indian family/tribe?I'm white and my last name
begins with the letter "M".Why don't white guys whose
last names begin with the letter "M" get free tuition?My
point being that we, as a nation, need to do EVERYTHING we can to completely
eliminate this entitlement mindset. In case you haven't noticed, look
around, it's killing our once great nation.The UofU using the
Ute shield and feather is not extortion.
"There is only one Ute Tribe, the one in Utah."JohnInSLC--you are simply incorrect. There are three federally recognized
tribes of the Ute Nation.The term "Ute" at the University of
Utah is generic in its use and is not explicitly identifiable to the specific
Ute Tribe in Ft. Duchesne. Therefore, all official "Ute" tribes can lay
claim to the same demands for using their name. A good example is
the controversy at the University of North Dakota when they tried to obtain
consent from the three Sioux tribes to continue using the Fighting Sioux name
and logo as required by the NCAA. One tribe refused permission, so the school
eliminated the reference entirely.So I ask you again--which Ute
"Which Ute Tribe?"There is only one Ute Tribe, the one in
Utah. I doubt that the University of Colorado or Colorado State want to change
their names to Southern Utes and deal with the Southern Ute Tribe, or that the
University of New Mexico wants to change to Mountain Utes and deal with the Ute
Just change the name back to the "Runnin' Redskins". Problem
"...no college may use a nickname that is identifiable to an American Indian
tribe without that tribe's blessing."Which Ute Tribe?
"Instead of giving away free tuition, some money would be set aside to
protect Utah's endangered raptors."Spoken like a true
friend of all living things--except people!
There is no justification for 'tuition waivers' AKA no tuition for
those of indian heritage. Just because the UTES is the mascot name for Utah
should not be a free ride at taxpayer expense....
@CowboyDudeI love the name the Utah "RED Hawks". Instead of giving away free tuition, some money would be set aside to protect
Utah's endangered raptors.
If the tribe feels oppressed as Native Americans then they should enjoy it when
the Utes are kicking you know what. A little revenge rivalry.For
those that compare it to the Utah Pioneers, imagine if Salt Lake had an NFL team
as the Utah Pioneers. We could see the Pioneers vs. the Patriots, the Pioneers
vs. the Saints, the Pioneers vs. the Redskins. Pioneers tackling everybody. If
your winning it could be fun.OK, maybe that is a bad idea.
The easy name change when needed will be the Red Hawks. We already have the
right colors, Swoop and a tail feather. There is no way one tribe will have
rights to the drum. The state, not the University should worry about
tuition compensation.The Redskins should change to the RedHawks too.
Just call them the Utah Gems - then they could be the Rolling Stones.
I like the idea of one commenter had for new name... Running Jordan River Rats.
Can you imagine what wounded pride it would cause a Cougar to get beat by a Rat?
"The University has agreed to meet with the Ute Tribe out of respect, not by
virtue of any legal obligation."Cletus:While there
indeed is respect, the U is meeting with the Ute Tribe because of the NCAA rule
that no college may use a nickname that is identifiable to an American Indian
tribe without that tribe's blessing. So while the Tribe may not get
royalties from purveyors of sport utility (ute) accessories, they know that
their approval is worth something to the University of Utah and its use of the
Ute name.I believe that most alumni value the school's good
relationship with the Tribe, and vice versa, and they would support a deal that
makes a quality education more available to tribal members as small recompense
for the use of a unique name. While the respectful use of the name Ute honors
the state and some of its original inhabitants, unlike many knee-jerk comments
here I do not see the Tribe's also asking for a few tuition waivers as
overplaying its hand. To me, it is a perfect solution.
This is all backwards. Can anyone imagine the Jazz paying Energy Solutions
company for using their name on the Jazz building? Of course not! Energy
Solutions pays the Millers boohoo bucks because they benefit from having their
name better known. If anything, a group should be paying the U of U
something for advertising their name and making it much better known. No one
would even know the Ute tribe still existed if it wasn't for the University
of Utah. The university is doing them a favor by honoring their name in
it's use of it. Receiving scholarships for the Ute tribe youths is an
unearned bonus that the tribe should greatly appreciate. For them to demand
more... especially anything retroactively... is pure nonsense and shouldn't
even be considered.
Hey,frugalfly,I attempted to post yesterday that they U of U change the
name to Utah Dogs, and then emphasize that they are indeed part of the PAC. But
for some reason my post has been lost in never never land. No word from DN what
they did with that initial post. We will see what happens to this one.
Since we are now in another phase of PC sensitivity about these types of names,
I suggest that all the colleges and pro teams in America do like Stanford
university did a long time ago. Go from Indians, which is what they were
called, to the name Cardinal, which is based not on a bird, but the school
colors. So, we can have the Utah Reds, or Cardinal, or Crimson. The BYU Blues.
The USC Cardinal, since they called their form of red that long before Stanford
adapted it. The Green Bay Greens. The Oakland Blacks.........Oh
Oh. I didn't see that one coming. Never mind.
In my ancestry I have Vikings, Miners, Patriots, Matadors, Conquistadors, Native
Americans, Mormons, pioneers.... I think I need compensated by many
organizations from High Schools on up to professional sports teams.... if I
can't get that then I am very very very offended that my heritage is being
denigrated... If it wasn't for the University of Utah, no one would even
know what a Ute was... seems like the tribe owes the University for some free
publicity. I am no fan of the UofU but this is extortion. But if you change
your mascot here are some ideas: 1. University of Utah Brine shrimps 2.
University of Utah Winter Inversions 3. University of Utah Snowflakes (best
snow on earth) 4. University of Utah Anti-Brighams 5. University of Utah 12
"PACS" 6. University of Utah Bass (then Ernest would want his money-
scratch that one) 7. University of Utah Blue-Haters 8. University of Utah
REDS 9. University of Utah Global Warmers 10. University of Utah Utahns (kind
of like that one- has a ring to it) 11. University of Utah Riceecclers (get
At least I see a discussion going on here; rather than the usual 'its bad
to use our tribe as a mascot for your team.'The Utes here seem
to recognize that sports organizations do not choose mascots out of disrespect,
but in a way, to honor that heritage by suggesting that the name implies
strength and power.I am glad that there seems to be a positive
relationship between the college and the tribe and again, I am glad that there
seems to be a discussion going on instead of litigation, name calling and
Native Americans occupied their lands by right of conquest. They do not have a
deed of purchase. Many nations still honor right of conquest although the US has
fortunately gradually stopped the practice.The time for using
caricatures as a symbol of a state university is long past. Paying off the Ute
tribe is tacit admission that money is the only thing satisfying the Ute Tribe,
not pride of association. The U has been trying to distance themselves from
cartoon characterizations by adopting Swoop and years ago the U was known as the
Runnin' Redskins. Stanford, Dartmouth and other schools have done the right
thing. Now t's time for the UofU to enter at least the 20th century, if not
the 21st, and give up the Ute name.
I like some other nifty names: The Running Seagulls; The Running Crickets; The
Running Trout; The Running Jordan River Rats; The Utah Running Deers; all
fine examples of local fauna that won't extort money from this fine state
I don't think cougars are going to come wanting to meet with BYU nor do I
think Satan is seeking compensation from Arizona State. I don't think any
other animals in the PAC 12 kingdom (Beavers, Ducks, Bears (golden and bruin),
Huskies, Cougars, Wildcats, Buffalos, and Cardinals) are going to come ask for
anything. Lastly, I doubt there are anyone living in Rome who are going to
request a payment for use of the word "Coliseum". Utah is all by
themselves on this one. They really need to ditch the moniker and conform to the
rest of the PAC. Pick an animal (I liked the chicken hawk idea someone said
earlier) and be just like all the rest of the PAC. Love your PAC 12 membership,
"You should try to sell copies of Micky Mouse ears and see what
happens."So if I sell feathers and arrows the Ute Tribe must
also be entitled to some of my proceeds. Ernest T, you obviously
missed my point. Mickey Mouse ears are obviously a protected trademark. The name
"Ute" is not a copyrighted term or an official trademark of the Ute
Tribe any more than the term "Mexican" or "African." According
to your reasoning, the Southern Ute Tribe, the Ute Mountain Tribe, the Capote
Band of Utes, and the Muache Band of Utes are also entitled to compensation. To
take your mislead legal reasoning a step further, ALL "Indians" are
entitled to compensation from the Cleveland Indians and the Washington
Redskins.By the way, the RUNNIN’ UTES; UTES; Lady Utes; Swoop;
Circle and feather are registered and protected trademarks of the University of
Utah, not the Ute Tribe. In addition, the Circle and Feather mark has been
registered at the federal level. The University has agreed to meet
with the Ute Tribe out of respect, not by virtue of any legal obligation.Now do you know what I mean...Vern?
"Ute" derived from the Western Apache word "yudah", meaning
"high up". Looks like they should be negotiating with the Apache
instead. If Indians keep demanding that their names be removed from iconic
places and organizations it won't be long until they are a totally
forgotten culture and the problem will be solved as they fade into oblivion.
How about changing the name to the Utah Dogs? And then they could emphasize that
they are indeed in the PAC.
Pavalova:"If the U is geting millions more $ because of their
affiliation with the Pac 12, it stands to eason that a portion of the winning
must go to the Ute nation". The Ute Nation's going to wait for a while
for a payout from the U winning.
In my not so humble opinion, the U is being shaken down. Dump the Ute moniker
and go with red tailed hawk, so you can keep the red or crimson if you prefer.
Keep the "Utah Man" fight song, it's cool. You be the hawks and
I'll stay a cougar and we can play each other 'till the cows come home
in any kind of contest we can think of. What happened in the past
is done, let it be sorted out on the other side. I understand that the Ute
tribe won a significant monetary settlement in the 1940's or 1950's
with Ernest L. Wilkenson (Pres. of BYU later) as an attorney from the Federal
Government. I also support stopping the State from managing the oil royalties
for the Utes, let them manage their own business affairs.The tribe
has the money to build their own schools and hire their own faculty, they should
do so and as a private entity they can decide who enrolls and what support they
want to give the students. Or, they can sponsor students to any school they can
gain admittance.This need not be a major problem.
If the U is getting millions more $ because of their affiliation with the Pac12,
it stands to reason that a portion of the winnings must to to Ute nation.
Isn't this a potential outcome of being part of a prestigious conference?
U are using their name and likeness. Since you're now part of the 2% you
can give your fair share to the rest right?
Cletus: sure the tribe owns the name and is a legal entity. If some slack-jawed
yokel began making money off of the Cletus clan from Coleville, you would be
entitled to a chunk of the profits. How the various tribal groups decide
on the legalities is up to them to work out. The fact is, a legal entity is
protected and entitled to some compensation. You should try to sell copies
of Micky Mouse ears and see what happens.
I'm a Cougar and a UTE fan, having attended both schools and am a bit
surprised at how many fellow UTE fans are ready to dump their moniker, although
I admit to having no real emotional attachment to it.Always trying
to get ahead of the curve, if there is to be a change, let me offer up some
entries into the contest for a new nickname:Big Brothers (would give
an instant leg up in all U v. Y discussions)Orange Traffic Cones (the
real heritage of Utah)Hilltoppers (can use this one only after AD is
changed, lest he thinks it's an homage to him)Athletes formerly known
as the UTES (Prince would approve and could help design the logo, his was
cool)Best of all, I hereby grant the U permission to use any of the
above without paying me a royalty, giving my linage free tuition, or appointing
me Special Consultant to the President on the Use of the New Nickname/Logo
would you rather pay for the name and symbol, like corporate sponsors, and have
a corporate logo and name for your U of U sports teams -- or make a rather
inexpensive arrangement with an Indian Tribe -- and most of your comments show
that you know pitifully little about the history of the Native American, not
only in the USA, but specifically in Utah, from territory to state. They are
'owed' a heckuvalot more than a few tuition waivers. Imagine what your
tiny little lot in a subdivision cost, and multiply that by several million --
you have not the slightest concept of history. You live in your selfish present.
And I am not a Native American. Read up a bit.
FIRST time EVER agreeing with Chris B. Oh, my heck!!! There is some
reasonableness in his rhetoric!Go UTES! Go COUGARS! I hope both
are undefeated in basketball when they play each other. The state of basketball
is looking really good in the state of Utah.
Wow, if there's no support for the use of the Ute name or logo, then change
it. Maybe just the U would be good. Don't be mad b/c the tribe wants their
due. Ed Grady's comment above is on the money.
I understand the history and mistreatment of the American Indian. I get it.
The United States government treated them horribly. However, no concession will
actually ever be enough. It will only be a matter of time before more is
demanded.I don't cheer for the U of U, I didn't go there,
and I really don't care. But I think they should change their name and let
the Ute Tribe know that there will no longer be ANY concessions above those
already given. Just make a clean break. Utah can get a new name and mascot.
And the Ute Indian tribe can hang out in Fort Duchesne and never be offended
How is the Ute name at the UofU any different than naming rights of the Maverik
Center or Delta Center or what ever it is called now? If the UofU wants to keep
using the Ute name and "symbology" then get a contract in place just
like any other business that wants to use a "copyright". If they
don't want to pay the price to use the name then do something different,
seems pretty straight forward.Ute Tribe shouldn't be too
surprised when the UofU walks away from the bargaining table and changes the
name and logos. Me think the Ute Tribe has over estimated their negotiation
position. In most naming rights negotiations the group whose name is used pays
the institution not the other way around. Utes what some free publicity
don't expect to get paid for it too.
I think there can be a win-win (as much as I dislike that saying) here. I think
that it is in the best interest of the tribe to agree to getting whatever they
can from the arrangement. They have to know that their affiliation with the U
is beneficial to them from a PR standpoint. Over the years that I've lived
outside of Utah (NJ, PA, SC, OR, CA) my vanity plate UTE-OWL has enlightened
many to the existence of a tribe that they never knew existed. "I know what
an Owl is, what the heck is a Ute?"I can't begrudge the
tribe for trying to get a little more from the use of their tribe's
name.Sure, the U could walk away from using the nickname Ute, but
should they, or will they even really have to consider it? I doubt it. I
don't think the tribe is dumb enough to walk away and I don't think
the U is willing to play hard ball. Bottom line for me - I
can't think of myself as anything but a U of U UTE! Go Swoops? Gimme a
Just change the name. There are enough creative people in the state to come up
with a name that is acceptable, appropiate to Utah, and doesn't needlessly
So, Chris B expresses an opinion on what the Ute Tribes should reasonably expect
to receive from the state for the UoU's use of the Ute name and logo and
he's dismissed as being ignorant on the US/native American relations? Not
only does that not speak well of the one doing the dismissing it does nothing to
further honest dialog in the debate. How did the discussion go from
discussing a business relationship to compensating native Americans for US
atrocities against the American Indian in the 1800's?
Get ahead of the curve & change the name.There is 1 nickname not
used enough in sports IMO. Vikings; It would reflect the heritage of many
Utahns.p.s. Change the Colors to Burgundy & Old Gold (i.e. Notre
Dame and Navy)
I really think they need to change the name to match the mascot, which is a Red
Tailed Hawk otherwise known as a "Chicken Hawk".I can see it
now......The Utah Chicken's. Seems like a good fit to me!
I'm a Cougar fan but don't like seeing my U friends being extorted for
a name that is being used with respect and dignity. If I were from Ute heritage,
I would LOVE that you're keeping my heritage alive, relevant, and promoting
it. The only thing worse is to be one of the dozens of native tribes that no one
has ever heard of. The U is doing a favor for the Utes. I personally think they
would be stunned if you called their bluff and walked away. I really believe you
would be wise to just bite the bullet and change it now as opposed to having to
come back the topic every few years and grovel to them to continue to use it. If
you want to keep the american indian theme, just change the name to
"Anasazis". I doubt you'll have many of them asking for free stuff.
The Utes don't own a TM on the block "U" (Utah)or a circle or
feathers. So, wal-la, your look and feel remains the same. No harm, no foul,
and get back to playing us Cougs!
Just remember when some one says that the University or the State should pay
$xxx,xxx.xx, what that person is really saying, that the tax payers of the state
of Utah, and the current and future students of the institution should pay. So if you are an alumnus, citizen of Utah, or current, or future student
at the U of U, how much of your own money are you willing to pay?
There's another Native American Tribe, The Goshute. Maybe they can
negotiate with the University for the use of their name and call it the
Free UTE Tuition and who is going to pay for that the COWBOYS?
how many generations are responsible to pay for the sins/mistakes of the past?
Change the darn name and move on. The Ute Tribe is beyond wealthy! and for the
few who achieve higher education it can certainly be paid for by their tribe. I
appreciate something much more when I have to pay for it myself.
This is nothing but a shakedown.
As the University can only use the Ute name w/ tribal permission, per NCAA
rules, that name has value. I'm okay, as a Ute fan, alumni and taxpayer,
with that value being paid in the form of tuition waivers for tribal members. In
fact, I strongly encourage the university administration to do that.To me, when I say it, shout it at the end of "Utah Man" or write it as
below, the exhortation is for the team and the tribe.Go Utes!!
This issue shouldn't only be decided by the University of Utah but all Utah
tax payers. Whether I'm a Utah fan or the fan of a private instutition or
an out of state school as a Utah resident it will still be my pockets (and all
other Utah residents) that pay for this 'free' tuition the Ute tribe
is demanding. We should at least have a say if we want out taxes to be given
away in this manner.Once you agree to hand over money to the tribe I
doubt it will be the last demand they have for something for free. End it now by
changing the name to something that the U can't be held hostage over.
I'm thinking the Ute tribe has a bit of canny busines sense in using their
name as a bargaining piece to help their people.But, I lived near an
Indian reservation for over 10 years, and I can safely say Indians (if that was
a typical reservation) have been receiving a huge remuneration each year to fund
this and that. These were dollars paid through tax levies on the rest of tax
paying U.S. citizens.I'd consider the cost of changing all
logos and indications of the Ute symbols, requst a check from the tribe for that
and look for another mascot. The Great Salt Lakers? Or the Brine Flies?
"Any entity, a University or otherwise, who is making money off of a name or
emblem that belongs to a different entity owes that other entity some of the
money."Ernest, pray tell...I must be missing something here. The
Ute tribe doesn't own the term "Ute" or a picture of feathers and
arrows any more than the NAACP owns the term "African-American" or the
Mexican American Political Caucus owns the term "Mexican." The University of Utah doesn't use the official "Ute Tribe" name
or emblem anywhere in their marketing material. Precisely what intellectual
property is the University of Utah using without the Ute Tribe's
permission?It may be of some importance to understand that the word
"Utah" is a derivative of the term "Ute." Does such a claim of
ownership mean that the state also owes the Ute Tribe even more compensation?
What about the Southern Ute Tribe in Colorado? Do they own the "Ute"
name, or does the Ute Tribe in Utah own the "Ute" name?
I'm surprised the PAC 12 hasn't already asked the University of Utah
to change their name because of "insensitivity" The progressive PAC (of
which I know my Devils are apart of and I'm sure there is progressiveness
in ASU too, much to my dismay) would not smile on anything that discriminates or
is insensitive to a minority group. With all the seriousness
I'm capable of, I think the U of U could come up with an awesome name like
the fighting hawks or something like that. I don't think the moniker of the
utes is that much of a staple like the Florida St. Seminoles with the tomahawk
chop is. Now would be the perfect time for Utah to reinvent themselves. However,
you'll understand if I don't think that any name could be better than
the Sun Devils. That's just awesome!
@CougMan:"There aren't any of them (Anasazi) left to complain and
try and extort money and concessions out of the U."Whadaya mean?
I'm Anasazi. And stop messing with my canyon wall hieroglyphics,
please.@MAYHEM MIKE:"What about a free car for my kids
when they turn 18?"How about a free Obamaphone and health
insurance for your kids, as well?@BeSmart:"There is
something that EARNING a living does to a person."Yes, but if
you stop giving handouts to people how you gonna get re-elected to cushy
Dump the Ute name and change it the Fremont Indians. They no longer exist, but
were very important in Utah history. They left incredible rock art. An example
could be used instead of a feather and drum!
It's funny that some of the biggest adherents for the U paying out the nose
for use of the Ute name are BYU fans, like Veritas and My2Cents, I guarantee if
the situation was reversed and it was BYU that had to pay out the nose these
same fans would be calling foul. That is certainly...odd don't you think?
Free tuition for a Ute tribal member is a bit much, but a discounted rate for
them would be much more appropriate. Scholarships only go so far for the poorer
tribal members. I think it's also a wonderful thing that the
Utes don't feel like their culture is being flogged by a University, unlike
others. It's all about the compromise. I'm sure both sides will be
willing to agree to a great consensus.
A lot of people on these boards who are trying to connect concepts that
aren't related. Companies can protect patents/copyrights or sell/license
the use of them, and often do so when the other party is receiving financial
gain BECAUSE of the use.The University of Utah is not benefitting
financially BECAUSE of the use of the term "ute" The University is no
more rich from being the "Utes" than if they were the "bees" or
the "dandelions" or the "goat farmers" or the "tree
barks" I supposed if the Utes became the goat farmers you people would be
demanding the University start giving money to all goat farmers and saying any
descendants of goat farmers should be given free everything?
Veritas,"Nobody suggested a handout.Just a share of
the PAC money for using their name"And yet why did you bring up
Us Govt/Indian relations from over a hundred years if all you're talking
about is giving them Pac 12 money for their name?
@Third try screen name:"Now is the time to find another mascot; one
that is not a protected class."How about 'Deseret' for
a new state name and honey bee for a U of D mascot. Has a nice stinger... or
Just put a big U on the helmets. Not sure how the Utes got the "drum (looks
like a circle to me) and feather copywritten so the U would have to pay for
it.The U can change the mascot name to the Utah Hawks, or Eagles, or
some such thing that is free.As far as tuition waivers? Make them
qualify academically or economically just like I would have to do.BTW, the state of Missouri and Illinois owe me money.
BeSmartCheyenne, WYAgreed Chris B.I grew up next to a
reservation.The tribal group I grew up next to received monthly checks for
a substantial amountthe majority... of the tribal members did not work,
were constantly in trouble with the law. Drunk Driving, Murder, and many other
crimes were quite common.===Sweet...
The Utes are a tribe, not some generic Indian reference, they made a deal with
the University years ago to use their name.This was a deal made for
use of their name, and then someone didn't uphold their end of the deal,
someone who makes bank of the logo and name. The ignorance of sports fans has
alway been astounding to me but this is a new low. A few scholarships and some
benefits while attending is just too much to ask while paying coaches millions
of dollars, yep how greedy of the Utes.I hope they sue them to stop
them from using their name.Chris B, you really represent the
compassionate conservative, They are not asking for some kind of handout, they
want what is due them for use of their tribes name, thought maybe "pilfering
pioneers" could work.
Change the name now or regret it forever. Stanford was smart to become the
Cardinal. Crimson is taken. The Utah Red!
The new name sould be the utah oops! sounds just right!
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTVeritas,Forgive me. I
forgot that because of some injustices over a hundred years ago all Native
Americans should not be allowed to demand all US taxpayers take care of them.===Nobody suggested a handout.Just a share of
the PAC money for using their name. If they want to be the fighting Mormons,
then pay the Mormons for use of their name, and if the Mormons want the money to
go to education, that should be fine.Chris, if you "Love"
the Utes, and the BCS, and all the money flowing in, shouldn't some of that
TV money go towards the real "Utes" if the real "Utes" choose?
And if they want it used for educating their kids?Or should it just
go towards new Ute training facilities, weight rooms, and foaming ice filled
Agreed Chris B.I grew up next to a reservation.The tribal group I
grew up next to received monthly checks for a substantial amountthe
majority (some of them worked and were great) of the tribal members did not
work, were constantly in trouble with the law. Drunk Driving, Murder, and many
other crimes were quite common.The monthly checks would come they would go
spend it on many things. Halfway through the month they were pawning off the
items they had just purchased to have drinking money.Government handouts
are not good for anyone besides people who are trully disabled and can not
work.Where are the highest crime rates in the US? They are usually found
in the areas with the higher percentage of people on full government welfare.There is something that EARNING a living does to a person.I am a
descendant of several groups that were persecuted (including native american), I
do not feel that I have a right to anything I have not earned because of it.
Any entity, a University or otherwise, who is making money off of a name or
emblem that belongs to a different entity owes that other entity some of the
money.That's all it is. The Ute tribe is allowing their name to be
used in merchandising and therefor they are entitle to some of the money being
made.It's not that hard to figure out.
Every time they have renegotiated with the Tribe they demand more stuff and get
it. It would not surprise me to see the agreement ended and the mascot changed.
The University has been leaning in that direction for years.
Veritas,Forgive me. I forgot that because of some injustices over a
hundred years ago all Native Americans should not be allowed to demand all US
taxpayers take care of them. Because the great great great great great great
great grandparents of today's Native Americans were treated incorrectly,
its impossible for today's Indians to be successful on their own merits.
Native Americans should be exempt from any personal responsibility
whatsoever. Not only should they never have to pay taxes for the services they
use like the rest of us, their tribes should receive millions in taxpayer funds
for the rest of eternity.They are, after all, the only group in the
United States that has ever been treated poorly and as a result, it is
impossible now for them to succeed on their own accomplishments, and it still
will be another couple hundred years from now. While we're at
it, we should probably add Mormons, Jews, African Americans, and Hispanics to
the list of "gets free whatever they want" for past injustices done to
How about something like the Nuskins or the Vivints? Then they'd pay US to
use the logo.
Once again, some poor, downtrodden, "feel sorry for me" group sucking
tax dollars from the rest of us. Some Black Americans want reparation for
slavery; American Indians continue to get various subsidies for the depredations
committed 150 years ago. Hey, I'm a Mormon. . . 150 years ago my people
also were killed, raped, had their possessions stolen and were driven from their
lands. How about changing the name of the U of U teams to "The Mormons,"
or the "Elders," so we, too, can charge a "use" fee and get free
tuition for our members? What about a free car for my kids when they turn 18?
Oh, and let's throw in the right to run a casino or two to bolster the
tithing fund. My pride wouldn't allow me to con others in that manner.
I'm a cougar fan and find it amazing that I'm actually agreeing with
Chris B on something. Amazing!Rather than be held hostage on the
name and always be fighting the politically correct game, they should just rip
the bandaid off and change it now. If they want to stay with indian heritage,
change it to "Anasazis". There aren't any of them left to complain
and try and extort money and concessions out of the U.
We should remember that Indians were a warring people long before the Europeans
arrived. They had been committing atrocities upon each other since they arrived
here 12,000 years ago. So to point to Europeans as being extraordinarily war
like and that Indians were peaceful victims ignores reality. The First Nations
people are a conquered people to be sure but they died as a result of disease
more than by military action. That does not mean we should not compensate them
where we can as we did with Germany, Italy and Japan in the post WWII era. Maybe
paying the Utes to use their name is one way to do that.
Veritas AequitasYou know something...You're right. I agree.
Native American's were treated poorly. There's the trail of tears,
there's so many other atrocities. I think Native American's should be
given free everything. But let's not be hypocritical. My ancestors were
Mormon Pioneers and lived through the atrocities of Hauns Mill, kicked out of
Nauvoo, and suffered by the hands of several mobs. So...I think, because of
something COMPLETELY unrelated to me, I should get a free education all the way
up to a doctorate. I think I should have someone else pay for me to get a
house...for free of course. I think the federal government should send me a
monthly check to compensate me for the houses, lands, cattle, and other property
that was illegally taken from my ancestors. Now, do you think that
would be fair? And if so, who's going to pay for it? OR, I can stand up on
my own feet and use my inalienable rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness, and have the right to fail and succeed according to what I (and God)
am able to do.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTVeritas,"Native
Americans already receive the same share of the pie that the rest of Utahns
receive. Whatever share of the pie I get as a taxpaying Utahn, any Native
American can get as well."===I have no response for
ignorance when it comes to the history of US / Native American relations.
I feel bad for how the native American indians were treated. But I also feel
bad for all other peoples treated poorly in our country's history. This
opens up a huge can of worms if there are tuition waivers. Does this mean since
my family was persecuted and killed I ought to get free schooling? And no way
the Ute name should be allowed to be used any longer. What a load of
manipulative garbage the U is pushing. Their mascot is a bird. They call
themselves Utes. I'm confused.
Veritas,Native Americans already receive the same share of the pie
that the rest of Utahns receive. Whatever share of the pie I get as a taxpaying
Utahn, any Native American can get as well. Let's not put down
the Ameican Indians by suggesting they need special treatment in order to find
success. The US Government is already too much of a safety net for too many
groups. It's time the American Indians take responsibility for their own
education, just like the rest of us are expected to do.
bribri86Phoenix, AZCheck it out, someone else with their hand
out. ===It's a crime how we have treated Native Americans in
this country. I am behind free tuition, books and housing. The tribe should also
get a percent of apparrel sales and that fat TV contract to support education
that supports Native American K-12 to prepare them for higher education. Come on
Utah, step up and make it right! They deserve a share of the pie.
Time for the university of Utah to pay up. If a local business tries to sell
'U' t-shirts, you can rest assured that the University of Utah will be
on the doorstep demanding royalty money.
The American Indians can apply for admission and scholarships like everyone
else. No reason to give them handouts that aren't earned. They are
perfectly capable of achieving academic success without relying on the taxpayer.
Besides, the use of the Ute name is in no way an attempt to
financially benefit from the work of others, which is the case in intellectual
property cases. It is simply a nod to the past in our state.We
shouldn't be so tied to the name that we're willing to cave to every
demand the ute tribe makes. We don't owe them anything. The federal
government has more than compensated American Indian tribes the past hundred
years. Sooner or later its time for every group to be responsible for
themselves and not look to taxpayers for funding.
The University has no real connection to the Ute tribe other than the use of the
Ute name as a mascot.. I fail to see how using the drum and feather is a
connection to a specific tribe. In any case, this looks like a money grab by
the tribe. Give us money or concessions or be will cause trouble.I
say it's time to cut the relationship with the Ute tribe. Maybe the Paiute
tribe would be willing to let us use their name as a mascot.. or the Goshutes or
the Navajo's. The Shoshoni also had a band that resided in Northern Utah.
We really have lots of choices.
Check it out, someone else with their hand out. I think, because I'm (fill
in the blank here) I should get free housing, free tuition, free food, free
books, free transportation, free free free. Someone's paying for it. And
it's going to be those students who are paying for their education or the
people who live in the state of Utah. Good luck with this one. I know what
I'd do if I were the president of the university. Hold a contest to come up
with the best name, logo, and mascot. Free tuition for the winner...
How stupid is the U for not having permanent rights to its name and logo. They
will pay for that mistake forever.
On the University of Utah site they list their mascot as the Swoops. They use a
bird on the sidelines, some kind of a Hawk.I am confused are they the Utes
or the Swoops?
Playing the politically correctness game doesn't appeal to me. The Ute name
and logo have no connection to the founding of the school or its achievements.
It is a tradition that has outlived its usefulness and only bodes as a PC trap
for the future.Now is the time to find another mascot; one that is not a
One of best friends in high school was a member of the Ute tribe!
Crooked deal for the Ute's no matter how you slice it or dice it and free
tuition is not enough, and should have been done 100 years ago.In
this day and age when hand shake contracts and deals are not recognized any more
I think the tribe has a valid case and that U of U owes them some back money for
the years the school was using their tribal name without consent or contracts. I
think a billion dollars or two in back payments to the tribe and state paid
tuition's to any school in the country for the tribes children and parents,
is their payment.The state should make reparations for the arrears
and the board of education fund the rest of the deal. The days of being nice
neighbors is a dead deal, time to repatriate the tribe with some respect and
long overdue compensation for their intellectual property.The tribe
has not been dishonored but cheated from their property rights. Either way of
name change or contract to rent their name, the Utes, reparations is still due
for years of theft of intellectual property and rights of the tribe.
change it to the movin' mormons or pioneers. i will now be changing my
moniker so as not to offend
I'm a bit wary of this meeting request, but agree that my alma mater should
provide tuition waivers to all bona fide members of the Ute Tribe who wish to
attend and otherwise meet the qualifications to do so. We're fortunate to
have the Ute affiliation and we should do all we can to honor and respect the
Ute Tribe and its members.Go Utes!