Rockwell,Way to spin every comment of mine into something I
didn't say. I'll just say this ... head to head determines
who the better team is out of the two teams that played. However, it
doesn't necessarily determine which team is better on a wider scale (which
factors in other styles of play, etc). For this reason I agree that people have
legitimate arguments as to whether BYU has been the better overall team despite
all the recent losses to Utah.That said, anyone with eyes can see
that the only difference between BYU and Utah the past few seasons has been the
patsy games on BYUs schedule. So yeah, in these instances I would absolutely
defer to the head to head battles ... Utah would've had little trouble
duplicating BYUs win totals and rankings if they played identical schedules. End
motorbike"It's hilarious when you guys bring final Sagarin
ratings into the conversation as if it's the end all on how good a team
is/was."What's really hilarious is when Utah fans only gush
about final rankings when Utah is ranked ahead of BYU.The real
negative for Utah is playing a difficult schedule is meaningless if you
don't WIN!It's funny how Utah fans continue to spew this
false narrative that head-to-head results trump everything else that happened
during a season.According to that illogical argument, Texas A&M
was BETTER than undisputed National Champion Alabama last season. If the
"infallible" BCS was supposed to match the two BEST teams in the
championship game, why was Alabama invited instead of Texas A&M?Please explain why Utah fans apply one set of rules when comparing BYU and
Utah, and a completely different set of rules when comparing other teams.
midpacmajorIt's hilarious when you guys bring final Sagarin
ratings into the conversation as if it's the end all on how good a team
is/was. Try to understand that if Utah played BYU's same schedule in
football the past few years, the Utes likely would've finished with the
same record/rankings OR BETTER... (head to head wins would support the latter).
Basketball would be a different story, Utah was terrible two years
ago and average last year though they improved as the season progressed. But as
Utah continues to improve and begins improving their out of conference schedule,
it will again lead to an apples and oranges conversation when it comes to wins
and losses, and final rankings. The negative for Utah in both sports
will be that wins will be harder to come by, meaning rankings will be difficult
as well. The positive is if and/or when they break through in either sport,
there will be little debate over their ranking and the sky will be the limit.
motorbikeUnfortunately for U, BYU is not only finishing with BETTER
records, but also HIGHER Rankings, which already factor in SOS - sorry, no
double-dipping on SOS just because you don't like the results. BYU finished
over 100 places HIGHER in RPI than Utah last season and BYU is consistently
ranked HIGHER in Sagarin, which includes SOS in the ranking formula.
Duckhunter,"As for the football and basketball comparisons, well
it just doesn't work. utah has beaten BYU in football 4 times in a row but
they keep finishing with worse records. BYU has beaten utah in basketball 7 in a
row, and 11 of 12, and they also keep finishing with BETTER records. There is a
real obvious difference."You're right, there's a
"real obvious difference" ... it's called strength of schedule ...
that goes for both sports. Now yes I'll give you that BYU has a decent out
of conference schedule this year in both sports, so this year is a slightly
different deal. But if you think a gaudy BYU record in football the past couple
of years means they were better than Utah, well, go on believing I guess.Also, if you look at other comments I've recently made you'll
see that I do indeed believe the rule changes will hurt the traditionally more
physical teams like Utah and benefit the run and gun teams like BYU. That said,
Coach Krysko is no dummy, he'll coach his guys up just fine. It ought to be
another great rivalry game this year.
@motorbikeThe new rules are going to really hurt the style of play
utah employee's if they stick with it. You and I had a very nice
conversation last year after utah played thug ball in the BYU game. I told you
it was incredibly boring and was simply a ruse to try and offset a severe lack
of talent. You disagreed as I knew you would since it was your team playing that
way. In fact you tried to tell me that utah was just as good as BYU last year. I
think that showed itself to be not the case.So what do you expect
from utah this year? Are they going to still try to mug the opponents best
players or are they going to try to actually play an interesting style of play
this year?As for the football and basketball comparisons, well it
just doesn't work. utah has beaten BYU in football 4 times in a row but
they keep finishing with worse records. BYU has beaten utah in basketball 7 in a
row, and 11 of 12, and they also keep finishing with BETTER records. There is a
real obvious difference.
Duckhunter,My apologies (for my last post) ... I didn't catch
that you were referencing Stanford football. (I thought this was a basketball
discussion).I see where you were headed with your comment but
there's one giant problem ... it's obvious to all with eyes that
Stanford football is AT VERY LEAST a top 10 team this year. Stanford basketball
is not in the same universe as their football team right now, so comparisons
just don't even begin to make sense.That said, I'll still
play along ... if we were to go back to the very point in time when Utah beat
Stanford and you were to make the exact same comment, I still wouldn't have
a problem with it. Quite frankly, I wondered myself at the time of the win
whether Stanford football had lost a step or two from last year. The
great thing however is we now know Utah beat a very good Stanford football team.
Perhaps the same will be true about BYU basketball later this season. If
that's the case, I'd be the first to say my early OPINION was off
Duckhunter,Do you seriously not understand that BYU improvement and
Stanford regression can both simultaneously exist and that a comment on the two
things together is in no way a back-handed compliment? I'd have zero
problem with inserting Utah into the exact paragraph I wrote, just as you and
agb so kindly did for me. Quite frankly, if Utah beats Stanford this year it
will most assuredly be due to improvements by Utah as well as regression by
Stanford - Stanford had Utah's number last year (insert joke here about all
the teams that have had Utah's number the last few years).Honestly, some of you die hard coug fans continually complain about negative
comments from Utah fans but this just proves you're simply LOOKING for
reasons to complain. That or the blue goggles are on a bit too tight. If you
honestly feel the need to turn a compliment and an honest unbiased opinion about
BYUs opponent, into something other than exactly that ... well quite frankly
it's on you.Good luck to your Cougs this year ... but better
luck to the Utes!
Fun fact: there are only two conference remaining that are still
undefeated...B1G 21-0andWCC 17-0
@motorbikeHere is your complete statement."As for my
own thoughts on the game ... nice win by BYU. I have to admit they look a lot
better than I anticipated. I also think Stanford has taken a serious step
backward this year. That or they overlooked BYU or simply need a lot of
coaching/development. Regardless, I'm still impressed by the cougs."Hmmm......sounds like bitter and grudging acknowledgement at best. Why
don't we take your exact comment and change it just a little bit and use it
as a comment on the utah football win over stanford then see how it sounds."As for my own thoughts on the game ... nice win by utah. I have to
admit they look a lot better than I anticipated. I also think Stanford has taken
a serious step backward this year. That or they overlooked utah or simply need a
lot of coaching/development. Regardless, I'm still impressed by the
utes."Hmmm.....sounds kinda like a backhanded
"compliment"? Sure it acknowledges the win but of course it also points
out stanford can't possible be all that good, in fact they've
regressed, the game result proves it.
motorbikeCottonwood Heights, UTagb,What
don't you understand about, "Regardless, I'm still impressed with
the cougs."???I understand that it was preceded by caveats. oops sorry! there I go again by being confrontational by copying and
pasting your comments.btw motorbike, it will be interesting to see
if you use your comment about BYU 'having a nice game' but
'standford regressing' as a pre fabbed excuse for the BYU Utah game.
Should the game end up with a similar result all you'll have to do is take
out the word 'Stanford' and insert the word 'Utah.' I
don't know whether you will or not, but I will be watching.
@dumprakeIf Mika finishes his career at BYU with more points,
rebounds, blocks, assists, steals and wins then you can rail on Davies... In the
meantime you need to back off... Davies is one of the best players to ever play
at BYU and as long as I am a BYU fan no one is going to dump on him without
getting a thumbs down and a comment which unfortunately I couldn't give
you...Davies is playing in the NBA today (Philadelphia)...
Let's see if Mika earns a spot on a team in that league. BTW, I hope he
does, but even then, Davies will still be one of the best players this
University ever had.
The Blue played great, but one game doesn't make for an entire season. They
still have to go through Gonzaga. It's a long season. No team can shoot 53
percent every game. There will be equally blow out games for the opponent.
Let's take it one game at a time.
DuckhunterRe: "BYU is simply light years better than
utah."Interesting comment considering BYU barely escaped with a
narrow victory at the Marriott Center last year. But I guess we can take from
your comment that Utah football is "light years" better than BYU.Also, despite what I said about hand-checking and how it may affect
teams like Utah, I'd be a little slower to assume BYU will beat Utah this
year if I were you. You may be in for a rather unpleasant surprise.
agb,What don't you understand about, "Regardless, I'm
still impressed with the cougs."???You might be a bit too
sensitive, my comments were simply my honest opinions. Stanford doesn't
look as good this year and BYU looks very good. Does that have to be a
back-handed compliment?Duckhunter,Same thing goes ... do
I really sound like someone who's worried about what a bunch of people on
the DesNews comment threads think? I seem to remember starting my comment with
"Nice win by BYU, I HAVE TO ADMIT they look a lot better than I
anticipated." Does that sound like someone who's worried about
credibility. Perhaps you and agb ought to step back and realize that not every
comment is written with the same confrontational intent that some of your own
comments contain.Allow me to say it again, nice win by the cougs.
They looked quite good last night and cougar fans should be encouraged. I also
agree with comments regarding the new hand-check rules ... this will serve to
help the run and gun teams like BYU while hurting the physical teams like Utah.
@agbHe simply can't help himself, he knows that just making an
outright cut will be a hit on his credibility, mostly because there wasn't
much to cut, BYU played their game, put up over 100 points and won
decisively.I think utah "fans" had this fantasy that utah
was going to be better than BYU this year, in fact I know many of them had that
delusion because they've posted it, go read the articles on the ute's.
The truth is these two programs are so far apart that there really is no
comparison, BYU is simply light years better than utah. 7 in a row and 11 of 12
tell the tale, and most have been complete beatdowns. It is tough to
take no doubt but it is what it is.
Ah Motorbike!What would one of your comments be without a backhanded
compliment:"As for my own thoughts on the game ... nice win by
BYU. I have to admit they look a lot better than I anticipated. I also think
Stanford has taken a serious step backward this year. That or they overlooked
BYU or simply need a lot of coaching/development. Regardless, I'm still
impressed by the cougs."It's either a 'nice win'
or its not. But I suspect you knew that, and were hoping the rest of us
I stayed up to watch the entire game, it was excellent. The style of play Coach
Rose runs is fun and exciting and the new rules will make it so that the games
will speed up....eventually.
This one really hurt the Utes. It goes to the core of who they really are -
members of the PAC 12. They can't fly their Utah flags and now they
can't fly their PAC 12 flags. It must be pretty tough . . .
I'm an advocate for keeping the discussion about the teams & game in
the article no matter what trolls tries to say. Sidetracking the conversation
is their goal and sadly, many people fall for it and play right into their
hands. Ignoring will frustrate them far more than any comeback regardless of
how valid. While some make it very difficult by how relentless they can be, if
we could all stick with ignoring, the fun would soon wear off. With that
in mind, I was impressed with this win. Carlino played with more control than
we've seen in the past and made far better decisions. Austin also showed
marked improvements. Both really good things and were my biggest concerns for
the season. Collinsworth is coming in strong for his first year back. It should
be easier to keep the quick tempo with new hand-checking rules. Last year,
Hawes would get down right mugged away from the ball with no fouls. Hopefully
that will change. I'm getting more excited about this year with each game.
In sports, the biggest cure is winning.Utah is actually smart with
its scheduling.A good win-loss record helps with recruiting. The
easy schedule won't matter, because they can tout their conference.This strategy worked wonders for K-State football, who was the
conference doormat at one time.
Never demean your competition. It makes your victories lose their luster.
I would like to think that we won a mighty victory against a
substantial foe from a great conference. You always want your competition to
do well, look well, except when they play your team or your conference. Have respect and honor for your foe, and then go out and defeat them.
Fun! Just plain fun! Keep it up Cougars!
With the new emphasis on enforcing fouling rules, I suppose Brandon Kaufusi
won't be joining the team when football is over. With great depth, the
basketball team may not need him this year, but maybe every team needs an
enforcer in the arsenal.
@ ekute and Ernest T. Bass:Thanks for mostly keeping it civil. I
don't enjoy comments by either BYU or Utah fans when their respective team
is doing well and then they try to rub it in against their rival opponent.
Gloating is immature. I hope the mentality can be developed where
BYU and Utah fans can sincerely congratulate each other whenever good wins
happen. Obviously, some fans on both sides haven't reached that maturity
level yet. But it's a good thing to hope for. Again, thanks for
your sincere positive recognition of an impressive BYU win. I also wish Utah
well with their upcoming games. Whenever any team from our state does well
against teams from outside areas, that's always a good thing.
I love it. BYU has an RPI of 33 and the u has an RPI of 142. That will get
them a spot in the NCAA's. Coach K needs to go and u needs to get a coach
that has the brains and courage to schedule better teams and on the road. He is
doing the team a huge disservice with this cupcake schedule at home. They will
not travel well.I see along season for the u with only a few conference
wins but tons of wins against their high schools teams, at home. How
flatlander, I'll answer your question as to who would schedule teams like
Mt. St. Mary's and Colorado Mesa: Chris Hill.
I love the new rules and the officiating. Ever watched a Big 10 game,example
Wisconsin vs. Michigan state where the score is 55 to 56, snooze, what a bore.
This is basketball not football. Who wants to watch defense rule? well, besides
Coach Whit. I love watching offense. college needs more 100 point games. I love my Gold's Gym membership! I still weigh 300 pounds and never
go, but i still love being a member.
@ CeltusExcept the Utes have not won a championship in football or any
other sport. Maybe Gymnastics
One thing I can tell from the BYU-Stanford game is that officials are not
messing around with the new rules set in place of having a defender's hands
all over the offensive player. The only reason Utah made it tough for BYU last
year was because they were extremely physical with Tyler Haws and kept him out
most of the game. That's not going to fly this year because Utah will be
called a foul every time, so Utah is going to have to try something else which
is not good for them because they don't have the offensive firepower BYU
has nor the bench.
skywalkerRe: "What's really funny is BYU-haters whining
about the crow they're being served this morning... and, of course, the
expected disappearing act of the most BYU-obsessed hater of them all."Interesting comment. I just read through every comment and didn't
see any whining from Ute fans about any "crow" they're having to
eat. And you're quick to mention the "BYU-obsessed hater" yet the
most noticeable theme in this comment thread is that there are a whole lot of
Chris B obsessed BYU fans. As for my own thoughts on the game ...
nice win by BYU. I have to admit they look a lot better than I anticipated. I
also think Stanford has taken a serious step backward this year. That or they
overlooked BYU or simply need a lot of coaching/development. Regardless,
I'm still impressed by the cougs.
CougFaninTX: "I hate the new rules for fouls. I bet the average
NCAA score will increase by 10+ this year and games will be 30 minutes longer
because of the rules."Actually, I think the new rules are going
to be a tremendous advantage for the Cougs in WCC play, where in prior years the
refs have allowed all sorts of thuggery to go uncalled. Teams with inferior
talent and size have had to rely on physicality to neutralize uptempo offenses,
and assuming the new rules are enforced, this should work to BYU's
advantage. Gonzaga got away with brutalizing Haws all game last year here in
Spokane. One thing that impressed me last night was seeing the
Cougars maintain their lead in the first half after several starters had to sit
with 2 fouls. Good job by the reserves.
We are in the conference of champions and byu is not and that makes us more
prestegous even though we lose lots of games.Go Utes!
Ernest T.If BYU has a chip on their shoulder, the arrogant, PAC12 touting
Utah fans have put it there. The chip should remain there for the rest of the
season if it helps BYU stay motivated.
Time to remove the chips and just enjoy it.
flatlander,Most teams do schedule a couple of gimme games, although Mt.
St. Mary's may not be that much a gimme. At least BYU has some very good
teams on their schedule. The Utes have scheduled no one. With the non
conference schedule the Utes have, their only chance to make the NCAA tournament
is to win the conference tourney. No matter what they do, they cannot get in
with this schedule (barring going undefeated).
BYU looks good. The execution looks a lot better than last year. I know
it's early but BYU is generating some swag. I like it and hope it
Ernest T. BassIt was a great game and BYU fans have expressed as
much.What's really funny is BYU-haters whining about the crow
they're being served this morning...and, of course, the
expected disappearing act of the most BYU-obsessed hater of them all.
Great win for the Cougars. But I just have to say, I've never been more
frustrated with a player than I am with "Matty Basketball" Carlino.
He's a half and half mix of brilliant and disastrous. If he could clean up
five or six of the horrible decisions he makes per game, I think he could be an
elite player. But as it is, he is just shy of one bad mistake for every good
thing he does. I'm getting seasick from the wild swings back and forth!
ETB, aren't you a little hypocritical in your comments? Your schick has
always kick BYU when they were down.
Congratulations Cougars and a great, NCAA resume-building win. Fun game to watch
with a great BYU crowd on hand. BYU is already showing signs of being a much
better team this year than last. More scorers, more options, better composure on
the road against tough competition.---------------Chris
B"I'm looking forward to a very average Pac 12 team
handling the 2nd best team in the West Coast Conference."If
Stanford, picked to finish 6th in the PAC 12, is a "very average team",
where does that leave Utah, picked to finish 9th?The truth is, the
Utes will be lucky to finish with a winning conference record, and the only
reason they'll have any chance at all of breaking .500 overall, is because
Utah plays a complete cupcake of an OOC schedule - BYU and BSU are the only
decent opponents Utah plays until January.---------------Barely a week into the season and BYU already has two wins versus RPI Top 51
teams.ESPN Daily RPI#33 BYU#38 Weber State#51
Stanford#54 Utah Valley#123 Utah State#142 Southern Utah#142 Utah
Loved the Cougs offense, but need some work on defense. I hate the new rules
for fouls. I bet the average NCAA score will increase by 10+ this year and
games will be 30 minutes longer because of the rules.I knew Haws,
Carlino and Collinsworth would be good and carry the load; but they are playing
better than expected - especially Carlino.Mika is the best freshman
I have seen at BYU in a couple of decades. Better than Davies, Haws or
Collinsworth who were all very good.Austin has improved nicely since
last year. Winder is looking great behind the arc. Worthington and Bartley are
solid freshmen who will provide valuable minutes and improve for next year.The team is better and deeper than I expected, and there are no seniors.
The present and future are bright.
I love playing Pac-Man. Go Cougars!
Funny that most "fans" can't comment on what a great game their
team played, instead they must bring in that huge chip on their shoulders.
I am still confused how a game where 215 points were scored is not on national
news. It is not like Duke blowing out a little bitty school, the score would
not be close to 215 points scored anyeway more like 103-30 affair, but two D1
schools playing a terrific game? It was a game televised on ESPN2, but ignored
by espn.com? Really!? I know it is not a record, but in modern basketball it
was one awesome game.
the prestigious conference of champions falls to the WCC...say it isn't so.
Didn't see the game but love the result! This is exactly the best antidote
to the venom from the haters any time. When we win, the haters can trash us all
they want and it won't hurt. Can't wait to see the rebroadcast of the
game on BYUtv. Life is good when all BYU sports are either on the ESPN network
or on BYUtv. Go Cougars! Go Utes! Go Aggies!
I thought that Pac-12 teams were a level above all competition. I thought that
when you play Pac-12 teams you have to play your best game and have everything
go right...just to stay in the game since it is a Pac-12 game. I mean, after
all, there is a certain area of UT that is designated as Pac-12 Country where
you have to step up to enter. Hmmm? How confusing that a Pac-12 team could get
beat is such a way.However it is nice to see that BYU has two more
games against this incredible high level of competition...well, really, it is
one exhibition game and then one more game against Oregon.
Wow! I didn't expect this. Congratulations on a complete game Cougars.
Many players were involved. I think that the biggest improvement I see this
year is the play of Matt Carlino. He is not forcing his shots like he did last
year. He seems much more composed and plays within himself. He doesn't
seem to be trying to prove himself. He is just playing the game, and playing it
well. I hope this continues. Go Cougars!
Bring on Oregon! (in basketball, not football)
Here's a sign of the direction of two programs . BYU chops down the
stanford tree on the road while Utah is walloping NAIA divII pine tree state.
Both are playing up to the level of their competition.
@Striker, I'm sure they will build that resume some more with wins over
Colorado Mesa and Mt Saint Mary's, two of the tougher teams. Who would
feel good about scheduling those teams?
Once again we see why BYU wasn't offered the position of doormat in the
PAC. That role has been filled so nicely by Utah and Colorado. Too bad they
weren't looking for a contender that would help fill their WCC-sized
How refreshing, the BYU post player did not commit two stupid fouls in the first
three minutes of the game and sat the rest of the half. Mika is already better
than Davies ever thought of being. I'm optimistic about this team, these
guys can win some games.
Let me be the first to say, "We Got It Done!" Where's my T-shirt?
I agree with you chris b... The Indians, I mean the Cardinal, did look quite
pac12ish tonight... Looking at the TV shots of the bleachers I was
also reminded of the pac12 (particularly Utah)... A ton of empty seats... I then got busy working on a couple of things while I was also trying to
watch the game... But then I would hear some loud cheering, I'd turn to the
TV and see that BYU just scored... I then had to double check where they were
playing and sure enough it was in Palo Alto...I always thought that sports was a
bigger thing than it apparently is in the big bad Pac12...
ESPN raving about BYU after this game. They are going on and on and on about
BYU. Perfect time to get a sizzling win with ESPN featuring this game for the
marathon tip-off. WCC also undefeated in all its games....something the PAC
cannot say. BYU likely in the top 25 after two solid wins so far.
The mighty pac has struck out!So chris, how is your beloved conference
looking now? To allow a team from what you call a weak conference to come into
your house and take you apart is truly embarrassing.So as I see it WCC 1
pac-thetic 0. The utes will really be in trouble when the Cougs come to town By
the way let's end the smack about small arenas. Stanford's arena
holds 3500 cardinal fans and 3500 BYU fans. That's small but the
attendance still outnumbers utah's attendance.
BYU continues to dominate the PAC 10.2 Too bad the team up north can't
get the job done.
Another awesome victory in a high school gym. Good job, Cougars!!
How many crushing defeats is this lately to PAC teams? Handily defeated Stanford
this year, crushed ut multiple times, beat Washington at home last year by 11,
crushed Oregon on neutral court, crushed Arizona twice (including 30 point win
at Arizona). Didn't u fans say BYU was the equivalent to their lowly
opponent? BYU and USU handily defeat a PAC brother with no problem at all. You
gotta love it baby!
If I would have known a few hours ago that Stanford would score 103, it would
have been depressing.Looks like we have three Jimmers, and a few
Cougars played impressively on offense. Free throw shooting and defense . . .
well, not so good!Carlino, Haws, and Collinsworth drove consistently
and hit big shots. Six players in double figures for BYU is amazing!
Hope Mika is ok. He tweaked his ankle a little in the end. The next big game we
especially need him in is Iowa State on November 20th. He should be ok by then.
Little scary though.
Nice game for BYU, Stanford made a good run at the end when BYU slowed it down,
but 112 to 103 is a high tempo game. Just imagine BYU's score if they had
made more free throws! BYU was 26 of 41 on free throws.BYU
wasn't really able to stop Stanford's big guy - Powell, need to work
on that. But, Carlino is continuing to play better, like he did at the end of
last year. Haws has spent a lot of time lifting weights and is stronger, but
doesn't seem to have his free throw touch yet this year.
Tonight's report card - WCC 2 Pac 12 0.WCC conference
undefeated so far this season. Only other conference that is still undefeated
is the Big 10.
Props to Coach Rose and Cougar basketball.
Love my elite and prestigious WCC membership! Seriously that was supposed to be
a mighty pac 12 team? Dropping 110+ on Stanford! BYU should make some t-shirts
or something.Onward and Upward!
Nice win for the cougars!
We need to learn how to put a game away though...
Chris B"I'm looking forward to a very average Pac 12 team
handling the 2nd best team in the West Coast Conference."Get
used to disappointment.
BYU CRUSHING Stanford on the road. Making their case for a NCAA Tourney bid
already. I love my PAC membership...oh wait. Add this to their already
impressive resume to any conference.
Chris B:The mighty Cardinal looking really Pac-12-esque right now.
Stanford staying in the game from the free throw line - 14 of 18. BYU shooting
poorly 5 of 11 from FT, but making up for it from 3-pt 5 of 9.BYU
54-46 at the half.Unlike last year, lots of new players
contributing.New restrictions on hand-checking and blocking are
going to take a lot of adjustment - 23 fouls called in the first half, 4 of
BYU's 5 starters with 2 each.
BYU is much deeper at all positions. If it comes down to the bench BYU wins
Lots of fouls on both teams; this is going to be a battle of attrition and which
team is deeper.
An item of early season concern: is it just me, or is Haws missing a lot more
free throws than is usual? I know last season he started missing more as they
got deeper into the season late in games. He uncharacteristically missed 3
against Weber and has already missed his only attempt tonight. Makes me wonder
if his legs are fully there.