@The ScientistI'm sorry, but that's funny. I'm not worried
about anybody knowing anything about what goes on in the temple because nothing
about it is embarrassing in the least. It is a beautiful place where I feel the
Spirit and complete ordinances for those that have passed on before. The need to
keep "secret" has nothing to do with embarrassment or any need to hide
anything. It has all been out there for over 100 years but we are still not
going to talk about specifics outside of the temple. Nothing shocking goes on,
nor did anything shocking happen before changes were made. As to changes - yes,
our church believes in continuing revelation. Some may say in response "How
convenient." It actually is quite convenient in that God can continue to
give revelation line upon line and precept on precept as the needs of His
children continue to change.
We as lds faith have been counseled not to cast our pearls before the swine, as
directed by the savior.
If your beliefs and rituals are so fragile as to fall apart when scrutinized,
then how sacred and "of god" can they possibly be?Only if
you are NOT afraid of the truth can you find it.All the
secretiveness (passed off as "sacredness") manifests fear. Of what are
you afraid? That someone might actually open your eyes to the absurdity and
silliness of what you believe in?
@Chris BPerhaps your history proceeds you and knowing how you mock
everything you either don't want to understand or you don't agree with
people would be reluctant to share with you. If you don't want to learn
sacred truths I would wish you a better day and leave you in your happiness.Here is an answer to your one point: God does change how he relates to
people according to their needs and attitudes. He will speak as a man face to
face as he did with Moses who was a man without guile. He won't talk to
someone who doesn't want to hear from him unless it suits God.How God
relates to man changes all the time.If you want to know why the Temple
ceremony changed, look at how the people changed that necessitated the change.
The part you are referring changed due to the people no longer needing that
reminder.Hope that cleared that up for you.
The temple and its ordinances are not secret, that is a total myth and one
promagated by those who think because they can't enter that something evil
is taking place. The temple is a place of higher learning and the garments are
sacred in that they remind us of the sacred covenants we take upon ourselves.
It takes years to understand the meaning and the ordinances of the temple.
President David O. McKay stated late in his life when meeting with the First
Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, "that I'm finally beginning to
understanding the ordinances of the temple." To request the same for
someone who doesn't believe would be completely assine. If you want to
really gain an understanding it is up to you to gain that knowledge. We've
provided the answers to you that you need to know. If you don't like then
the one you need to ask isn't a member but the Lord himself. It is Jesus
Christ that has decided who will be allowed in his house. It is Jesus Christ
who questions the faithful on their worthiness to enter, through is designated
ClarkHippo; I am going to ask you one question with a follow up. Do
you have anything in you life that you feel is so special to you that this one
thing is not going to be shared by the world for it to make fun of or possibly
tear apart? If you do then maybe you can understand the importance of the Temple
and why only through purification can you enter the doors as with King
Soloman's Temple in the Old Testament and even then not all could enter
with out the purification process. This is why we have recommends and we remain
faithful to our covenants from our baptism to the time we enter the Temple. God
expects this of us and our garment is our way of remembering those very special
covenants that we made on what we believe to be very sacred ground. Trying to
prove to you or the world is not our way, you have to prove it to yourself, read
the Book of Mormon, pray about it faithfully, if you feel you don't have an
answer yet do it over again have faith that you will.
Clark,I agree that much of the information is on the internet, but
that still doesn't answer why the Mormon church would change it? If its
true and correct, its true and correct, right? If God wanted it that way, God
wants it that way.Why would someone exposing it on the internet
change the "truth" of it? Sure, its no longer a secret, but are you
saying the truthfulness is upheld only in its secrecy? Why would the
publicizing of it impact in any way shape or form the truthfulness of it?
Besides, the current temple information is again found on the internet. So
should it be completely re-done again? I don't see any
connection between it being available to outsiders and the
truthfulness/correctness of it?
@Chris BYou asked - "Why would going to a new country or
increasing another million necessitate changing the temple actions?"There wasn't space to explain this more previously. My point was,
as the church has grown, our critics have equally found a greater audience.
Films and pamphlets have been produced given detail after detail of the temple
endowment ceremony (something which I suspect you know already). I don't
know if this is the main reason why the brethren have chosen to tweak the temple
endowment ceremony every so often, but to be honest, it isn't that
important to me. If someone I knew was investigating the LDS Church
and had sincere concerns about the temple, I would not simply say,
"It's sacred so we can't talk about it." I would gladly answer
there concerns as best as possible. I would explain that, like baptism, the
temple endowment is a gate toward our ultimate goal of eternal life. I would
explain my own experience going through the temple and that I have experienced
many moments of great spiritual strength from going back to it whenever I can.
ClarkHippo,"So you and others can degrade it?"So
we can question it and discuss its merits. You'd better believe, as
I've stated previously, that if you and your missionaires come to my door
year after year trying to convert me, that I'm going to ask all the
questions I want and learn all I could before I ever joined a church.And yes, when a group keeps trying to convert me, but refuses to tell me
everything they believe in, that is a big red flag.
ClarkHippo,Why would growing and moving to many parts of the world
necessitate changing what happens in the temple? If you are honest with
yourself, you will admit it was the most "shocking" aspects of the
temple that were eliminated. And if those things were good enough for LDS
members in America, why wouldn't they be good enough elsewhere in the
world?Or if they were good enough for 8 million Mormons, why
wouldn't they be good enough to 9, or 10, or 11 million members?Why would going to a new country or increasing another million necessitate
changing the temple actions?
@Chris BYou said - "It sure seems Mormons know that what happens
in the temple would likely scare off a great number of potential converts if you
explained in detail what you did in your temples, especially if the truth was
told about how the past temple things were done."Obviously
you're unaware LDS members and missionaries constantly get questions about
the temple, and that in fact there are many aspects of the temple we can discuss
openly, but your words clearly indicate you're only interested in finding
the most creepy parts. You said, "I know its not a popular topic
for Mormons, but according to them, God suddenly changed his mind years ago and
altered some temple things, taking our some of the more shocking things."As the LDS Church has grown and moved into many parts of the world, it
becomes necessary to tweak things here and there, including the temple ceremony.
I'm sorry if you can't understand this. You said,
"I'd encourage Mormons to admit and openly discuss what was done in the
temples and exactly what was said, both before the changes and after."So you and others can degrade it?
I have never heard of soulpancake, even though I consider myself a heavy user of
youtube. Nor is this the first or last time a media person will investigate
mormon underclothing. Frankly I am a bit surprised that this is considered news.
Scientist, You can get any information you need in your own home, if you
really are who you represent yourself to be which is an atheist happily married
to an active Mormon woman. Chris B. Do you not
understand there are degrees of sacred? A child's birth is a sacred thing.
Their birthday is special, but not sacred. I'm not sure why you refuse to
get that when it comes to the Mormon temple. Church worship and baptism are
special and can even be sacred, but not to the degree as temple worship. Truth and fear are interesting words to use to describe exposing the LDS
temple to the world. It shows a clear lack of understanding of the meaning of
sacred. It also shows an assumption that LDS people don't really mean what
they say and are only trying to hide strange and threatening things from the
Scientist, So you are incapable of asking any Mormon co-workers, neighbors,
friends, families, or other acquaintances? And if you know
exactly zero Mormons in your personal life, you have a reason to believe a
random response on these comment boards would be a more correct answer than the
wonderful tool Google I introduced you to? Or are you already very familiar
with the answer to your question, and your post was just a dishonest(since
you've already done all the research you need to) attempt to stir up
Scientist: You already know the answer to your question. Let it suffice that
the emblems and the meaning of those emblems are sacred to those who wear the
garments properly. Sure it is on the internet if you look hard enough but still
it is sacred and the meanings should not be discussed outside the walls of the
temple. It is safe to basically state that the emblems and their meanings allow
us to remember the covenants that we take upon ourselves during the endowment.
For those who obey this they continue to remain sacred. For others, not as
much.Try to be respectful of this and accept this as the answer that
is needed. If you don't like it then maybe ask your wife. She probably
has already told you the meaning and that remains between you and her.
Utes home for the holidays wrote:"Scientist, Have you heard of
"Google"? Try is out sometime. It's pretty neat."Yes, and you should try posting what you find after such a search and see how
LDS defenders react...better to just ask the faithful directly,
don't you think?
Rikitikitavi,When you and your missionaries come to my door year
after year and tell me I should get baptized in your church, you'd better
believe I'm going to expect to know what Mormons believe before I'm
going to make such a decision to be baptized. If you don't
fear the truth, lets get together and talk in every detail about everything
Mormons do and believe. After all, you don't fear it, so you
shouldn't hesistate to discuss is.
Where did this notion originate that Mormons want to be accepted? Our sacred
practices and deeply-held values are not subject to exposure, disclosure, or
compromise just to gain public acceptance. You have no right whatsoever to know
what I choose to wear underneath my outer clothing. Are you a bunch of pervs?
We who are LDS are not the ones attempting to publicize these issues concerning
our temples and related sacred attire. Back to the issue of acceptance: we
merely wish to dispel myths and falsehoods relating to our faith. Truth is our
only motivation. None of us fear the truth.
Scientist, Have you heard of "Google"? Try is out sometime. It's
Can someone tactfully explain the Masonic symbols on the Mormon garment?
I think the Mormon garments is an interesting topic, and it would be great if
Mormons were truly open about them. Mormons want so badly to be accepted in
society. And if you do, you should be willing to be totally open. Explain in
full detail everything about garments and how they relate to what happens in
temples. If its part of your doctrine why hide it?
Why not just be open and explain everything about the Mormon under clothing? It
seems that Mormons want so badly to be accepted in society, yet aren't
willing to talk in detail about what they believe. I think if Mormons were more
willing to truly be open about their doctrine, they would perhaps be more
accepted as they wish to be.And no, please don't tell me
"its sacred that's why we don't talk about it" unless your
telling me that your sunday services, bapstisms, and other church activities
aren't sacred, as those are open to the public.Des News
moderators - nothing in my post breaks the rules. Unless of course "bringing
up tough topics for Mormons" is also against the rules, as it appears to be.
@cjbGarments are not meant to be worn during all activities, such as
while swimming (unless the swim clothes are that modest which they aren't
these days anymore).
Two issues:1. I can understand how DN has a list of banned words and that
"under" and "wear" are on them. As an admin of a rather popular
FB page I can attest to how convenient it is to not have to monitor all the
juveniles and their knotty comments 24 hours a day. Instead I have my own
banned word lists and yes, under - wear is on it. However I am occasionally put
off by how strict the filters here are set by my ideology. Just because I offer
an opposing viewpoint does not mean I need censoring.2. I don't need
my wife to wear anything other than our sacred garments to find her attractive.
She's hot enough for me and likewise I am for her. That's kind of the
point of a temple marriage...
@cjb: Actually I see no distraction from the under garments worn by many Latter
Day Saint women. It is only that what they wear is modest and reminds us that
modesty is keen. The under garments are worn also by men and by all endowed
members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Those who wear the
garments properly are promised many blessings if they wear the garments night
and day in the manner they were designed for. It is also a question for one to
maintain a temple recommend. That shows how important it is to us and to the
Lord Jesus Christ that the garments be worn in the manner the Lord has
prescribed.I feel that I have been blessed by wearing the garments.
They give me comfort and remind me of my covenants.
@cjbI'm pretty sure I can pick out a beautiful women regardless
of whether I can see her shoulders or not.
Garments do detract from the beauty of wives. Stylish night gowns look a lot
better. They also make it so women can't wear sleveless tops.
Des News moderators,Is the word "under wear" really banned?
I posted a comment with nothing close to an offensive word, and yet the response
was my post included a banned word. The only thing I can think is I combined
the words "under wear" in my comment. Are we really so
childish as to ban the word "under wear"(here separated so it can get
past the filter to ban all sorts of disgusting words such as this)?
I would encourage those faiths seeking to be accepted and understood, to be
willing to explain everything about your religious beliefs. To me, it
doesn't cut it to hide behind the "its sacred" excuse for not
talking in detail about Mormon underclothing or what goes on inside temples.
After all, aren't your normal Sunday services "sacred"?
Aren't your baptism services "sacred"?And
yet those are open to the public.It sure seems Mormons know that
what happens in the temple would likely scare off a great number of potential
converts if you explained in detail what you did in your temples, especially if
the truth was told about how the past temple things were done. I
know its not a popular topic for Mormons, but according to them, God suddenly
changed his mind years ago and altered some temple things, taking our some of
the more shocking things.I'd encourage Mormons to admit and
openly discuss what was done in the temples and exactly what was said, both
before the changes and after.