Kakashi: I'm confused by your circular logic. GS and LAC changed their
cultures but you want to remove the 16 steps they took from the analysis and
focus only on their last hire. Doc can't win with losing teams any more
than any other coach. His hire augmented the culture change, it wasn't the
complete substance of it.GS and LAC did not make their cultural
change solely through the draft. Blake Griffin would still be playing on Clipper
teams that are missing the playoffs if it wasn't for Chris Paul.A culture change happens over time. It is an elemental change in philosophy,
attitude, and expectations.A positive culture change means the team
steps on the court expecting to win no matter who they are playing. It is when
other teams fear playing you instead of looking forward to it. It is confidence
in yourself but, more importantly, confidence in your teammates, your coach, and
your front office.A negative culture change is the opposite.Do you really think LAC had a bad culture the day before Vinny was fired
and a good culture the day Doc was hired? It doesn't work like that.
@Joe5in the past 5-10 years i think we reached the conference
finals....Deron Boozer Memo AK47...we had a losing season when we traded for
Deron during draft day....we signed Boozer i guess a season or 2 before
that....any of that ring a bell?...and then Deron didnt actual commit to
Utah...and the brass felt he was leaving...so they started a rebuild...we are
playoff bound that year till the trade...we got a 3rd pick Favors in
return...and another 3rd pick in Kanter...got burks...got burke...and at 0-8
have position in a draft class as good and deep as the draft class of
lebron...so....i dont know...where are you getting at...i did agree with you
that having a losing franchise could demoralize a team...don't you think
the cavs would reach the finals if they didnt try to get lebron with the 1st
pick?...what about the heat with wade? and getting Shaq?....and what were we
doing back then? patching up the roster since we lost boozer and picked up
Al...that was a patch job not an improvement
@joe5aren't the golden state warriors competing for a
championship right now? with that loaded roster?...did you think the clippers
worked hard to do it?...and you are correct that they Changed....but...what were
the latest changes? a new coach for the warriors....and CP3 to the
clippers...they have a budding legit star in Curry for warriors...and they
signed one in CP3....we dont have that right now....the ownership might night
say it out loud but the writing is on the wall...they were willing to lose the
season to get a player who has superstar potential in Wiggins and Parker...i am
sure that we aren't going to land a superstar anytime soon...and i am not
sure we will be able to keep our players...that is why we have cap
flexibility...in case we dont get a sure fire star...and if their assessment of
the core group wasnt up to expectations...they could remedy it by signing
players....so i really dont get the fuss about the team losing...because i
really dont expect much from the group as i know this will be a growing year...
I don't think you guys get it. Golden State and the Clippers CHANGED their
cultures after years of working hard to do it. Blake Griffin didn't change
the culture of the Clippers. He was only one small piece of the puzzle and his
culture changing role was no more significant than getting free agent Chris Paul
or, for that matter, Caron Butler. Butler may not be around to enjoy the fruits
of his effort but he helped change them from losing laughingstocks to feared
competitors. The other irony in your comments is that I hear this
chorus of "we don't want to just make the playoffs, we want to compete
for championships." Well maybe you should bring up the Warriors and Clippers
when they are competing for championships instead of getting knocked out the
playoffs in the early rounds. Maybe you should bring them up when there is
something more on their resume than preseason picks to compete. Maybe you should
use them as examples when they get to where you say you want the Jazz to be: in
the NBA finals or at least the conference finals. Until then, your examples reek
Isn't nice to have 4 decent college basketball teams up north. The best
game of the year in the ESC will be the Aggie Y game.
Granny Danger and Kakashi.. very well put.
@joe5i would partly agree with you when you mentioned losing culture
kills franchises...i agree to the sense that it discourages players and tend to
look somewhere else...but i disagree that it would kill a franchise...since a
franchise direction usually leads to where the ownership and management wants it
to be....an example would be...Golden State took them 12 years to get to the
playoffs in 06-07 then another 5 year drought....now they have one of the best
teams in the west right now...and how about them clippers? took them 8 years to
come back to the playoffs in 05-06 and went on a 5 year drought and got into the
playoffs again in 11-12...the rockets a winning franchise...went on a 4 year
drought and went to the playoffs at 03-04 and another 3 year drought froom
2009-12...so i think its a matter of planning for the GMs and ownership
@ joe5 "Losing culture kills franchises"Well the Warriors n
Clippers didn't get killed did they ?Maybe hiring that right
coach will be a game changer......
zabivka: I hope you're right. I jokingly picked them to lose until Dec 7
against the Bobcats (which would make them 0-21). I'm tired of laughing at
the Jazz apologists every night when the Jazz lose. I'd love for them to
win so I can quit the countdown.But they're not just losing.
They're losing badly. The players have lost any semblance of swagger. They
walk onto the court expecting to lose and it becomes self-fulfilling
prophesy.Since July, I've harped on the danger of a franchise
establishing a culture of losing. It's been met with outrage by Jazz fans.
So how do you get them to expect to win next year when they have some hot
rookie. Will one player influence the other 14 so they all of a sudden start
believing they're a winning team? Or is it more likely that the one will be
influenced by the 14 and lose his confidence and become convinced that they are
not a very good team?Losing culture kills franchises.
I've been saying since the beginning of the season that the Denver game
would be the first win of the season for the Jazz. Had the back-to-backs been
flipped last week (i.e. Boston and Toronto on the front-end of the
back-to-backs, respectively), I think we would have seen the Jazz with 1 or 2
wins already, but it was hard on them to play good teams the first night, and
then not have anything left in the tank on the second night.There
will be energy tonight, a home crowd, and an almost-as-bad Denver team. I think
we can do it! Go Jazz!
To all concerned Jazz Fans: In case you didn't know, the Jazz
are rebuilding.. it happens to every team in every professional sports
league..thank you for your time.
I just read where ESPN ranked the Jazz as the worst team in the NBA, They also
stated "the Jazz have fallen flat". Isn't that something to be
proud of? Are we just suppose to sit back and be patient or is now the time to
do something....anything? Oh how we miss Larry and Jerry!
Granny: It is not dramatic to prophesy that the Jazz may find another city to
call home. I lived through four professional basketball franchises (two in the
NBA) growing up in San Diego. Since the beginning of this century (13 years
ago), six franchises have relocated. For the mathematically impaired,
that's about one every other year. The two most recent teams (Seattle and
New Jersey) had been in their cities 41 and 35 years respectively.I'm not saying the Jazz are gone. But I will say the conditions that led
to these teams' departures bear an eerie resemblance to what is happening
There's no need to get dramatic and prophesy that the Jazz will move to
another city. NBA franchises are skyrocketing in value and the Miller family
would be foolish to sell the team somewhere else. That said, fans certainly have
the right to not support this team and not attend the games. You may even choose
to root for another team. You're all free to do so. But please remember
that your money doesn't ENTITLE you to a good team. You're paying for
the entertainment of watching basketball - it's not an investment to
"buy" a better team. I, for one, am glad about the direction the Jazz
have taken this season. Someone said Jazz fans have been patient for many years.
To the contrary, we've been spoiled for many years. We've had great
teams for the better part of 3 decades. Toronto? Milwaukee? Minnesota?
Sacramento? Washington? Those fans have been patient. Even the Warriors and
Clippers are finally seeing better days. Give it 2-3 years and we'll be
back among the league's better teams. Be grateful for what you have while
you have it!
gehelmke: I don't fit into that category you describe. I've been upset
since the Jazz first tipped their hand early in the free agency period. I
started what felt like a one-man campaign to expose their stupidity.Losing is no surprise to me. Other predictions:- The Jazz either trade
Hayward at the trade deadline or do a S&T in the offseason.- The Jazz
draft choice will not be augmented by any meaningful 2014 free agent signing.- The Jazz draft choice (Wiggins or Parker) will play the same position (SF)
as Hayward (not adding anything to the core four except redundancy).-
Either Kanter, Burks or both will not sign their rookie extensions and will
leave after.- In 3-4 years, the Jazz will be cap constrained with big
contracts to Favors, Kanter or Burks, Burke, and looking at a big increase for
their 2014 draft pick. At that point, they will have to round out the team with
inexpensive free agents.- The Jazz rebuilding effort will result in a team
that finishes in the 4-8 playoff positions for a few years but never approaches
the promised land.In short, they will be what they already were.
In order for the fans to help the team they have to have a team they are proud
of.... This team is not a product I can cheer for. If the millions they are
getting paid to play isn't enough for them to give it their all then we are
going to lose every game. Even listless Denver will beat the jazz tonight.
Maybe it is goodbye Jazz. Jazz fans I would say seem to have been very patient
for years. I understand going with youth if the youth have the potential, but
moving out Jefferson and Milsap good for 30-40 points a night isn't
There are two things about this Jazz situation which confuse me:1) I
don't understand why all these fans are upset....It's been a known
fact for months that the Jazz have elected to get rid of all the veterans and
grow a team built around the current youth along with draft choices and maybe a
couple of free agents along the way. The goal this season is to give the young
core group a lot of court time.2) I don't understand why, when they
had such a great plan in place, the hierarchy chose to leave their inept coach
out there to botch the whole thing up.It's my belief that if
they leave these kids out there with Corbin for a whole season, he will
demoralize them all to the point where they will never be able to perform
efficiently in the NBA......and I further believe that it's things like
this which make a lot of big time players avoid Utah......I don't think it
has anything to do with the size of the market, the lack of African Americans,
or the LDS church....It's inefficiency and ineptness.
Good news JAZZ fans...Denver has one 2 point win against Atlanta.Denver is injury ridden.Denver is playing, without energy,
for new coach.Denver has shown they cannot defend.Bad
news Jazz fans...The game is on NBATV.Denver does not
want to be the first team to lose to the JAZZ.Denver is coming off
two days rest.According to my prediction of a 12-70 season...This should be one of the twelve wins for the JAZZ this season.
Yeah right, put me in coach!
Canuck...good thought. How much patience are we suppose to have.
Corbin? I think its time we bring in Jerry to save the year. Lets do
Go Jazz! I'll continue to stick with you throughout the season! Gordon
needs some help out there, so hopefully guys will chip in and get us our first
Beginning of the end for the Jazz in Utah. Seattle will be their new home in a
few years. The Jazz are not the same since the old man passed away. I miss
Larry.Fans in Utah will not support 15 win (if we're lucky)
Jazz team.Meanwhile across town RSL is making another fantastic
playoff run in MLS.