It would have been nice if you put a map and highlighted the area of NW Florida
were you made the purchase!
"The deal is a glimpse into one way church leaders practice financial
responsibility with the reserves they set aside against down economic
cycles."Are we not now in a down economic cycle?! I have
watched the Church quietly buy hundreds of thousands of acres of American
farmland over the years while millions of people have starved to death in the
world, our American inner-cities have crumbled, medical care (especially the
need for rural care) has been in crisis around the world, etc. When is this
hypothetical rainy day coming and who is going to benefit from the stockpile?
From the article: "Leaders set aside a fixed percentage of church income to
build reserves for what late church President Gordon B. Hinckley called "a
possible 'rainy day."At least the Church is coming clean
about diverting "church income" (which I take to mean tithing, etc.) to
buying land, etc. This is a good first step toward disclosure.
@Taxman,Are you expecting the Church to magically solve all the
@The Taxman,Go Google LDS Church humanitarian efforts.
And our church takes VERY good care of these things. It WILL be of great
long-term benefit to the State of Florida!
Taxman - The church is primarily focused on helping others help themselves, not
just giving handouts. That being said, the humanitarian and volunteer efforts
made by the church and its members is nothing short of astounding.Entitlement, entitlement, entitlement, sigh... Our country is
going absolutely broke trying to fund the socialist pipe dreams embraced by the
majority of liberals (i.e. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Obamacare,
Illegal Immigration, Food Stamps, etc. etc. etc.)How refreshing it
is to see a church run by sound principles authored by God instead of your
All one has to do is to actually go to the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints and see what it says about where our tithing and other offerings go.
You will find that for years the LDS Church has put a certain amount of tithing
to the side for what it calls a rainy day. It is also known that the LDS Church
buys solely with cash. That means no mortgages, no debt and no cash problems.
The LDS Church operates entirely in the black. This includes all of its
operations.All humanitarian offerings, fast offerings and perpetual
education funds go 100% in those areas. Tithing compensates where these areas
don't. Tithing builds the kingdom of God on the earth. Until one
understands these things and sees it for what it is worth will understand that
every year the LDS Church discloses how the funds are discharged. Audits are
done every six months to ensure funds are spent by the respective units in
accordance with LDS Church practices. Just find it before you start spouting
off about full disclosure.
@1aggieDo you really think that the Church and its' leaders
would use tithing money to buy up farms? NO! Of course not, those are sacred
funds, and they do feel the sacredness of it. Go read Elder Bednar's talk
from last general conference. The Church owns multiple for-profit enterprises,
so most likely the funds used to make the purchase would come from those
avenues, NOT from funds that the members faithfully donate in faith in keeping
with the Lord's law of tithing. That kind of accusation is absurd. And by
the way this isn't the Church of Thomas S. Monson, or the Church of Gordon
B. Hinckley or Joseph Smith, this is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day
Saints. Whose church do you really think this is?
The church has always paid cash and bought many new investments. They have some
pretty good financial experts.And it will all go to the betterment of all..
How refreshing to find a institution that practices what it preaches. I'm
proud to belong to such an organization and I'm happy to support its
missions with my tithes. I know my contribution is being used wisely, and I
don't need to see an annual report as proof.@Taxman:
Hypothetical rainy day? Things are bad all over, but we haven't seen
anything yet. Conditions will deteriorate dramatically as your liberal
coalition continues to destroy the concept of personal responsibility here in
the world's breadbasket. Poverty and misery in Africa? I assume
that's what you're referring to. No amount of humanitarian aid will
solve their problems as long as corrupt governments rule, and yet, the Church
still makes an attempt.
Taxman,Re rainy days, you haven't seen anything yet. Did you have
breakfast this morning? Supper last night? Sleep in a bed? The real rainy days
are still to come.
Some are just looking for any chance to attack the Church even when they make
good decisions and do good things. I guess no good deed goes unpunished.
@Taxman: "When is this hypothetical rainy day coming and who is going to
benefit from the stockpile?"Apparently you do not read of all
the humanitarian effort and good the Church does to help people everywhere in
the world. Look at the response of the current crisis in the Philippines which
will be a perfect example. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will
be there to quietly help with huge amounts of supplies, food, and relief in any
way they can.And with the poor and needy anywhere, there is a system
to help people to be not only taken care of, but be self-reliant (as opposed to
the entitlement issue in the U.S. today). There is no dole in the Church. Some
type of service is expected for goods received.
What is the hidden agenda of those who demand "full disclosure" of
church funds? Based on past experience, the following could be possible reasons:
(1) disclosure could provide fuel for those that want to grab at straws to
criticize the church (2) disclosure could allow disgruntled people to try to
dictate where their donated money goes (though that's already somewhat
possible on church donation slips (3) disclosure could provide fuel for those
wanting to prove the church should not be tax exempt, and (4) disclosure could
provide means for those who just like to find fault about anything the church or
any other institution does (think "Friends of Scouting".)There may
be other reasons, even legitimate ones, but past experience demonstrates the
wisdom of proceeding with caution with this and other sensitive subjects where
the church is concerned.
1aggie-Coming clean? This was reported in the April 1991 general
conference over two decades ago. You can re-watch the talk or read it on LDS.org
if you want. Here are some snippets below regarding from the
talk:Question 10: Is the Church an organization of great wealth as
some have maintained?[...] We have a few income-producing business
properties, but the return from these would keep the Church going only for a
very brief time. Tithing is the Lord's law of finance. There is no other
financial law like it. It is a principle given with a promise, spoken by the
Lord Himself for the blessing of His children.Question 11: Why is
the Church in commercial enterprises?Essentially, the business
assets which the Church has today are an outgrowth of enterprises which were
begun in the pioneer era of our history when we were isolated in the West. When
there was no longer a need for a number of these, they were disposed of. The
remaining number are relatively few.For more details and insight,
read the whole conference talk on LDS.org
The Church must have great respect for the South.
Taxman: What's your point?This is exactly what is needed to
help with some of the social problems you mentioned: a competent company making
a conservative rate of return as it produces products and jobs. What we
don't need is continued flawed policies that the government has tried
meddling in over the same 60 years with handouts or speculative companies trying
to make a fast buck.
According to a BYU Digital Universe article published today "Between 1985
and 1998, the LDS Church made contributions of more than $223 million in cash
and in-kind assistance (including food, medical supplies, etc,) to worldwide
humanitarian relief efforts, according to a church Welfare Services fact
sheet."Let's see... the Church is the largest nut producer
in the United States and brings in $7billion per year in tithing, and over 14
years donated $223 million in cash and in-kind assistance to humanitarian
relief?michael.jensen369I suggest you check out the disclaimer
on your new tithing slips which says the church has sole discretion over
spending, even though it will make "reasonable efforts" to follow
I was on the phone with my daughter when I saw this, I told her and she
responded very positively, stating that the church is always doing worthwhile
things. She is not involved with the church at all, yet she does see that their
ventures are for the good.
All: it would be nice if we could lay off the ad hominem attacks (about
liberalism, etc.) when people say something you don't like.According to the 2010 welfare statistics as reported in this newspaper, the
Church "rendered" 63,337 tons of food assistance between the years 1985
- 2010. One semi-truck trailer holds 22 tons of food. So less that 3,000
trailers of food were given over a 25 year period. Albertsons probably delivers
more food to its stores in a week. I could, but don't need to put up
estimates regarding how many billions of dollars the Church brings in (from
members and its businesses) or extimates of how many people have died of
starvation over the past 25 years. The facts speak for themselves; I don't
need to elaborate further.
IMO it appears a private corporation, owned by the Church bought some land, to
do with as it pleases. According to reports, the care shown in other holdings
appears to be positive and in the long term interests of the State of Florida
and agricultural principles.I think people and organizations can
spend their resources as they choose, and decide how they will aid, if at all,
the poor and needy. Evidently there are some who have tight purse strings who
are anxious to loosen the purse strings of others before they loosen their
own.We all need to worry more about the weeds in our own gardens
than comment on the size of the weeds in our neighbors garden. Let's see how this purchase pans out before we comment ad nauseum on who
is the most charitable or giving, or how others should give.
I wish the church would buy all the federal land in the state of Utah so we can
enjoy anytime and anywhere we want. Yes, I know it sounds expensive but we
welcome anyone coming to our beautiful place that we live rather than haveing
this federal government ever shut the door to our parks.
Deals like this or the Deseret ranch are business deals, pure and simple,
although I always sense in them a bit of a 'get everything we can before
the apocalypse' mentality in it. People have to convince themselves that
this is gods will and clearly they do. And to their credit they do manage
property well. But I'm not snowed that this is somehow an altruistic or
As reported by Reuters, David Stewart, A Mormon physician who leads research
group Cumorah says"The Seventh-day Adventist Church, which had about
17 million members a year ago, appears to be getting a better return on
investment: It builds smaller meeting houses and lots of schools and hospitals,
and its numbers are swelling faster than the Mormons". The Adventists claim
a million new members join annually, compared with every three years or so for
the Mormons."The Seventh-day Adventists clearly have a much more
expansive humanitarian project in terms of building hospitals and medical
schools and schools and universities and long-term developmental infrastructure
around the world," said Stewart. "It's paid off for them."
@TaxmanBefore you comment further, please become informed on the LDS
Church humanitarian efforts around the world. Many are common knowledge, but
same happen without much publicity. The Church is not meant to supersede
government responsibility for "our American inner-cities have crumbled,
medical care (especially the need for rural care) has been in crisis around the
world, etc" but the Church is much more responsive to need and do their
work more cost-effectively than government bureaucrats. If you want to help, and
I'm certain you do, Google Liahona Foundation as a start.
There is a "fairness" issue with these "business deals". If I
don't need financing because I have the unlimited ability to borrow massive
amounts from my parent company (who happens to enjoy the tax advantage of being
a charitable organization) at miniscule interest rates, and you have to go out
on the open market and raise your capital (at much higher rates) is this a fair,
competitive situation? It's legal, but should it be?
Dear Taxman and Hutterite,Your a priori arguments are not well
founded. Yes, this was a business deal and evidently a smart one, too which is
good for the environment and charitable efforts of the church. The purpose of
the project, which is tax paying, is to benefit the humanitarian assistance
programs of the LDS church, not to enrich "share holders." Critics and
cynics with their off topic comments seem to find fault in even the most
altruistic activities of others.
Not sure why my comment was denied about the reason why the church is able to
buy this land.Tithing is the reason, pure and simple. Just like
when a company goes public, any and all investments and expenses are paid for
with money from the shareholders, or those that gave that company money in the
first place. Same goes for the LDS church's ability to buy all
this land and build City Creek. They got the money originally to do so from the
tithing of its members.
An article in the May 14, 2013 issue of Scientific American discussed the
shifting of our earths magnetic poles. If this happens as indications show, that
area of the world might also be one of the better places to inhabit. It pays to
have a Prophet running things.
The LDS Church does engage in humanitarian work. How significant it is in
relation to other religious organizations or in relation to what it receives in
donations/tithing is difficult/impossible to quantify with the information that
is available from the church. When the church reports figures of humanitarian
aid how much of it is monetary donations (fast offerings PEF etc) and how much
is from something like me bringing toothpaste, soap etc. for a hygiene kit? The LDS welfare system in theory doesn't always match the reality.
Abuse of the system does occur. The expansive system in UT doesn't
necessarily resemble what happens outside of UT. Here the nearest Bishop's
storehouse is 2 1/2 hrs away--requiring a great deal more of sacrifice of
people's time and money. I also see other churches providing weekly/daily
assistance to those in need without regard to one's religious affiliation.
"We have a few income-producing business properties,"(Nevermind the Church spent billions on a new Conference Center and
shopping mall/luxury housing within the last 15 yrs.)My bottom
line:There is no space or justification for pride regarding the
humanitarian aid by the Church.
I wish the church could buy the whole state of Utah. And only people who are
happy here could live here. Wouldn't that be a wonderful thing!
It seems difficult to send foreign aid, such as Indonesia, Japan, the MIddle
East and Africa, in semi trucks. Perhaps taxmen can.
The LDS Church made a wise investment in the Florida property. The
Church's worldwide reach will permit it to use those resources in a very
laggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT I don't know where you get your
information but I a the Wad Finance clerk and I enter the funds were the giver
has asked the funds to be placed. If they say fast offering then that is were
it go's, if Huanatearyne aid then that is were it go's and so forth so
get your fact streat it go's were the giver has asked.
@1aggie--if you wish to have credibility, I suggest you stop misrepresenting LDS
Church humanitarian aid as being the sum total of all LDS Church charitable
“…much of what is done in the Church is to bless and help those who
are not Mormon. The Mormon Church has donated more than $1 billion in cash and
material assistance to 167 different countries in need of humanitarian aid since
it started keeping track in 1985. Many of these countries have few to no
Mormons, but are also non-Christian.” Source: lds.org
@Dew - I have no problem with most of what the Church does, but if the Church
owned all of the state land, I would immediately pack up and move. They would
surely ban my beautiful Sunday hikes!
I don't recall Jesus and his twelve disciples making financial investments.
@taxman How is producing more food causing starvation? They grow food and you
think that causes people to starve?
ThinksIThinkSEATTLE, WA said:"I don't recall Jesus
and his twelve disciples making financial investments."Do you
recall reading the Bible with financial references in both the old and new
testaments? There are severalI think Jesus played the part of financial
consultant telling his disciples to give what they had "come follow me."
I just want to point out that this land is NOT in the Florida Panhandle. The
Panhandle is the portion of the state that reaches to west under Alabama.
I would be interested to learn if the Church also has a practise of donating a
set percentage of income (Tithing) to humanitarian causes. In effect, do they
pay a "tithing" for this type of effort? These contributions would not
include the value of members volunteering, separate fast offerings, or members
specific humanitarian contributions to disaster efforts etc. It would include
the cost of providing services to people such as Deseret Industries etc. I feel that this investment is a worthwile use of the money the churchs
has stewardship over.
The parable of the talents comes to mind.
The Deseretnews link to the Tallahassee Democrat newspaper which reports the
lands sold are: The land to be sold includes the majority of St.
Joe’s timberlands in Bay, Calhoun, Franklin, Gadsden, Gulf, Jefferson,
Leon, Liberty and Wakulla counties.Basically, a majority of the
lands between Panama City on west and Tallahassee on east, and the gulf coast on
the south and Florida/Georgia boarder on the north. The Apalachicola River
flows through the west portion of the lands.
Seems there is a senses among several of the critical comments above that the
LDS Church should spend all of its income on humanitarian efforts. That's a
position which would ignore the spiritual aspects of the church's mission.
Those cost a great deal of money, and the church pays its bills. But for those
who don't believe in God, or are too wrapped up in the natural man, as
defined by Paul and the Book of Mormon's King Benjamin, that's not too
surprising. Pride--Ezra Taft Benson and the Book of Mormon are proven out again!
It's not really that much money. There are individuals who own yachts that
cost more than that. There are many buildings in Manhattan that would cost more
than 500 million. There are homes in Florida that cost 100 million. This is
some inexpensive land. It may or may not turn out to be a good investment.
Only time will tell. Apparently the previous owner didn't want to own it
I think the real story here is money management, as several have already pointed
out.I don't know where the 7 billion in tithing revenues comes
from but let's suppose it was correct. And if the church only needed to
spend 6.5 billion of that in a particular year, what are they going to do with
the rest? It would be an unwise and slothful servant who would just put it in
the bank to gather paltry interest. No, they will invest it in tax-paying
properties. And if the day comes that they need that money to do what Tithing
does, they will then sell the investment, probably at a profit, and continue
on.All major institutions do this: colleges, businesses, other
churches. What is the big deal here?
What a really great story! It distresses me that such a wonderful event for the
State of Florida has to be viewed by many in a political sense. This will
ensure jobs, pay taxes and ensure the preservation of natural resources for that
area. Our nation needs more groups to take this kind of action to get us back
I am surprised that no one questioned the value of an acre of forest land in
Florida as being worth over a million dollars an acre. Could a Floridian
comment on the price of land in that area of the state?
I worked in the Church's farm management division many years ago. I was
impressed with and grateful for how it was run: efficiently, productively and
profitably. Paying cash for each property was the key to profitable operations.
Debt payments are a tremendous drag on profitability for 99+% of all other
agricultural operations throughout the world.
Peace, relax, don't be upset whether on one side or the other. Help those
you can personally and be financially responsible for what you have. As was
once stated, get your problems resolved first, then help others. Remember the
two great commandments.
Some posters keep mentioning City Creek Mall that the building and such came
from tithing. So you are saying that the brethren are lying when they state
emphatically that no tithing money was used in the building of city creek. This
basically means they are misstating that members tithing was used to build the
mall. Unfortunately, the fact is that no tithing money was used in it. A lot
of what the Church buys is done via a normal business which pays taxes to the
United States. Just last year the LDS Church in an article put out that what
the media reports is not always true. Again the LDS Church buys everything with
cash. Meaning that all temples, churches and other buildings are paid for
before they are even started. The Church operates entirely in the black, never
in the owing money. President HInkley stated emphatically that the Church does
buy or build unless there is ready cash to do so. Land is a good investment
that generally goes up and the LDS Church has a business that does this.
Tithing money is emphatically stated for temples, chapels, books and other
things. Listen to the Prophet.
The churches main asset is the member who pay tithing. Most of the tithing
money goes to further the work, whether it is building buildings, helping
missionaries etc. The money used to buy this land was not tithing money and is
subject to taxes etc like any other company would be. The church will manage
this correctly. I hope it works out.
Just a quick run down, Tithing-building of the kingdom, which means goes
towards missionary programs, help for missionaries who cannot afford to pay
their way, missionary upkeep which is more now that we have more missionaries
going out. Temples, which again is for the building of the kingdom and church
buildings which provides a place of worship to build the kingdom. Fast
offerings-go strictly to the poor who do not have enough. Humanitarian Fund-
this goes directly to people who have been in disasters like Katrina, Sandy and
this new recent storm in the Philippines. Church is already to send food, clean
water and other things there. The main reason that the a company that is
affiliated with the church is interested in buying this purchase is because it
helps a community with their economy and gives the church more land to produce
items for the storehouses that are all over the world that give food to the
poor, needy and yes helps us all when economic crisis hits. I know because they
helped us rebuild, pay our mortgage, get new food, everything after Sandy hit.
Glad that they're finding ways to spend all that money.
@ Taxman, The church happened to send fresh water for thousands on Long island,
Staten island and has continued to give aid. As far as only 3,000 trucks, you
have no idea how many of us are not starving because of the church. Without the
church I would be homeless, would not be able to pay my bills and would not be
able to take care of my family on the income that we have. Newspapers
don't have all the stats. Only our leaders and God himself knows all the
good that is going on and it is not all given by the church welfare program, but
by members who willing to give of their time, talents, and resources to help
each other. As far as those who commented about Jesus and the twelve making
financial investments, the really did make some. They ask us to take care of
the sick, the poor and the needy and in Malachi we are asked to pay our tithes
to the lord. It is time we stop worrying about what others are doing and just
focus on what we can do and how to help.
Despite the constant accusatory attacks from enemies of the Church insinuating
that it is somehow evil and dishonest in how it handles the tithe and offerings
of the members, the Church continues to steadily move on quietly doing good and
providing help to millions around the world, Mormons or not. Even if the Church
spends every penny they get from tithes and offerings of the saints, the haters
will never be satisfied. They will always find something else to accuse the
Church of. So the dogs will continue to bark while the caravan steadily moves
on, "...boldly, nobly, and independent..." in it's noble goal of
caring, nurturing, assisting and lifting the feeble knees of the poor and
downtrodden of the world. Btw, if the Seventh Day Adventists are
doing better than the Mormons, then I salute and honor them. God bless them!
As for you 1Aggie, Taxman, and others who criticize and hate the Church so much,
what have you done lately to help? How much have you given, if ever, to help
the poor and destitute in your own neighborhood?
The fast offerings of the church, which are administered by local bishops
(I've been one, I know of what I speak) are not accounted for as
humanitarian aid. The dollar amount distributed to members and non-members by
bishops around the world is staggering. Although a very few recipients deceive
new/naive bishops, most of the funds expended are well spent...and most bishops,
if they err in distributing the funds, err on the side of mercy. Critics, please
be more informed before you offer negative comments about the church and their
genuine efforts to help. Can we do better? Of course. And we are constantly
improving our outreach and our effectiveness...but not because of angry
critics...because we are truly trying to do God's will.
I continue to be amazed to see how worldly the LDS Church has become, and how
members faithfully contribute tithing funds to this corporation. The shame is
that so little of this money actually goes to people in need. How is tithing
actually blessing the people, when the great majority of tithing funds is going
to build up enterprises that members have no involvement with? Where is the
accountability and whatever happened to common consent?
I'm amazed at how many members question the decisions about how their
tithing money is being spent by those who work in that great and spacious
building in Salt Lake. Repent of your lack of faith in the Corporation that is
looking out for you.
Tithing is not used for humanitarian efforts, nor for buying land for business.
If the Church didn't meticulously separate, manage, and execute its
resources, do you think it would still get exempt status? Every financial
action that is remotely tied to the Church is heavily scrutinized.I
was an intern for MSTART.net, which was the original name for the Church owned
websites. When it started, it was a self-sustaining company, meaning that it
was not funded by tithing and had to survive solely on its own performance and
revenue. While I was working there, the Brethren received revelation to change
it and become a non-profit, tithing subsidized service, and changed its name to
LDS.org. The difference was the mission changed to building the kingdom and
becoming a tool for missionary work and resource outlet for church members.
Before that transformation, not a dime of tithing was spent on it. Now it is
entirely funded by tithing.
Snarky anti-LDS posters seem concerned that our small, 14-million member Church
hasn't solved all the world's problems.Well, we're
concerned, too.But give us a little time. As we grow and extend
influence into more and more of the world, fewer and fewer of its problems will
be beyond our reach.
@Don37;Over a million dollars per acre? Did you read the
article?"The Times said the per-acre price of Thursday's
announced deal — $1,475 per acre — appeared consistent with the
sales of large timber tracts."
It is interesting that there are so many people who were not involved in the
deliberations regarding the Florida and other purchases, seem to have such
amazing insight into what the church really should do. If the church gave a
million dollars to Obamacare, its liberal critics would find something to
After reading the negative comments made about the good deeds of the LDS church,
one can understand how Christ and his disciples were rejected by their own
I think it's really neat.It's curious to read the various
justifications being spelled out to taxman. It's almost as if there is a
lot of cognitive dissonance going on.
Church owned assests like meeting houses, temples, etc etc are money consuming
and not money making. It is just prudent to have an investment arm that operates
as a taxpaying business.For those who speak negatively, what the
church does with its tithes and other donations is of no concern to non-members.
As a tithe paying member, I don't give a thought as to how my donations
are used because I see it every Sunday when I turn the lights on at 6:00am for
meetings. I see it when I enter the temple to participate in ordinances. I see
it when the missionaries ( I was one ) greet me each week. There are so many
other ways I see tithing being used to further God's work. Besides, who am
I to question how the Lord's chosen servants manage His church. There will
always be critics who have nothing better to do but write poisonous comments.
My family has required financial assistance more than once, which we were able
to obtain through the Bishop's Storehouse. I have also been a ward finance
clerk more than once, and can attest that there are those receiving far more
than that in the form of payments of mortgages, auto loans, utility bills, and
the like for the periods in which they are out of work--wish I myself had known
years ago that was possible, frankly; that help would have saved us from getting
into a deep hole from which we still have not fully recovered. I find it sadly
amusing to see people who have no idea how the LDS Church works, and want to
denigrate it. Not surprisingly, the Church tries to take care of its own first.
But it does help others, especially those in dire need due to disasters, but
also in the form of such things as career training through Deseret Industries
and LDS Employment. Trying to find fault with *any* organization that is
generally doing good is surely not remotely close to a positive use of time for
I'm fine with the church making this purchase, it's kinda odd to me
for churches to get involved with this sort of purchase but hey, whatever, they
can do what they want. What I disagree with is some of the comments
that suggest that somehow profitable moneymaking ventures is definitely a part
of what a church is supposed to be. Though I guess considering how the
Prosperity Gospel (i.e. anything based on being against "handouts")
stuff seems to come up a lot in any thread about poverty.
When we cut through all the name calling and dissembling, two simple irrefutable
facts remain:1) Money is fungible. People seem to take refuge in the fact
that 'tithing' money is used for this and 'other' money is
used for that, but the fact remains that the church is sitting on a vast trove
of wealth (and the pile is growing exponentially) while people are starving.
Just because you can't do everything doesn't mean you should do next
to nothing. More can and should be done.2) the Church does not disclose
its finances but chooses to move in secrecy. Why is secrecy good? I believe if
people could see the amount of money coming in and the small percentage used to
do good, things would change. But that won't happen without the cleansing
light of day.
I am not LDS but I understand the basic concept that one cannot give away money
that they do not have. One must fist receive/earn it. Ecclesiastical and
commercial enterprises operate separately. I don't expect anyone else to
divulge their tax forms any more than I am willing to divulge mine.Complaints form Truthseeker, The Taxman and Ernest T Bass seem remarkably
petty and bitter. But as The Taxman says: "The facts speak for themselves;
I don't need to elaborate further."
I am not sure what motivates the Taxman to comment about the LDS church when he
is not a memeber and most likely does not make donations to the church. How the
Lord uses His money is His business. The church is not accountable to the
general population and does not need to answer to them. Overall the church does
a good job informing its members on how the funds of the church are used. Many
conference talks have addressed this in the past.
Taxman: It is evident that no matter what is said and the answers provided will
answer your questions. The statement provided just about a year ago answered
your questions but no you still refuse to listen to the answers provided. You
feel you have all the answers. One hundred percent of all humanitarian funds
goes to the humanitarian efforts of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints. A percentage of tithing goes to this as well, but tithing goes to
building temples, chapels, providing manuals other things for the edifying of
the membership along with the maintenance of the buildings throughout the world.
Members alone provide many hours providing service in food kitchens and other
things. Fast Offerings are maintained in their units and deseminated by the
Bishops/Branch Presidencies. Your criticism is unfunded and is by one who has
no knowledge of those funds. Once those funds are given to a member of the
Branch Presidency/Bishopric, they are no longer your funds. They now belong to
the Lord and are used as the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve deems
they should be. Listen to the Prophet of the Lord.
Christ had the power to feed 3,000 with a couple of loaves and fishes and to
have manna appear each morning like dew to feed the children of Israel. With
such power, why doesn't he feed everyone, everyday. He certainly has the
power to do so and, being perfect, he has perfect charity.I believe
I understand why...and the explanation is the same that explains how the Church
manages it resources.For those who truly have ears to hear, the
answer is there to understand. Those who truly understand Christ understand the
principles that guide how his Church manages its resources.
When I first read this story a few ago I wondered when we would see the
"Watch out! The Mormons are coming" headlines. So far all I have seen
are the always present ugly comments from the usual suspects.
There is always someone who will have a much better idea about how I should
spend my money. Sounds like the government. And, if all landowners were as
far-sighted and innovative as the Church has been with its farm properties, this
country would be much better off. You can do the research on such innovation
and the stewardship demonstrated in the management of these properties. I
don't care how the Church spends my tithing. The leadership has my trust
and know much better than I how the funds should be spent. Thank you very much.
@ThinksIThinkWell, He did make a number of statements regarding
money (finances): "the widow's mite", "render unto Caesar that
which is Caesar's", etc. His apostles never went to Disney World
either. Times have changed somewhat, have they not?
@jschneidauIt is near Wewahitchka. You can look it up.
@ErnestPlease explain EXACTLY what you mean by "cognitive
dissonance". Thank you. Oh, and in terms that we mere mortals can