Farmhand: If you can't understand the difference between the Spurs
situation and the Jazz situation, I can't do much to help you. But let me
try to explain one more time.Duncan was drafted to a team that
already had enough talent to win a division championship. The two years prior to
the Robinson injury, they won 62 and 59 games.Wiggins, Parker, or
whoever will be drafted to a team that has not contended for a division
championship for five years and may set an NBA record for fewest wins in a
season.You don't think that is a different situation?
@Joe5 Does it really matter why or how the Spurs tanked in 1996-1997 ? The
fact that they were able to get the #1 pick (Tim Duncan) in 1997 has made them
that much better. Four championships since then if I am not mistaken. Likewise
the Jazz who have been contenders in the past (maybe not the last few years) now
have a chance to draft one maybe even two players in this years loaded draft who
could potentially be stars. Plus with some big expiring contracts coming off
the books next year they will have an chance to pay Hayward what the market
dictates if he pans out. Of course none of it will matter if they don't
part ways the the most unqualified coach in the NBA.
This team is not "rebuilding". It is imploding.You
don't rebuild around washed up veterans, players who are undersized,
players who have not deveolped, and inexperienced draft picks. Remember, this is all by design. This is what team mgt thinks a
"rebuilding" team looks like.
"You don't learn to play good basketball by getting your head beat in
every night."You also don't learn to play at this level
playing behind mediocre veterans game after game.
@joe5you are right that the jazz situation is different from
Spurs...but is a bit similar to OKC....they built the team through the
draft...getting a surefire star in Durant (who happens to have a poor efficiency
outing during his rookie year)...and getting Westbrook and harden...but OKC
shows that it is not enough that you built through draft...but you all so have
to keep your players as well as improve on your team...i am not sure if the Jazz
can do that....i just want to see the team and organization to try and build
through the draft....we haven't won a championship ever anyway...so
where's the harm in trying to get one with a different approach....and to
be honest...it might take a while...it is clear that Favors and Kanter are still
raw...and whatever happened to the Kanter that goes after rebounds?...plus...we
should've got the coach of Philly...the guy is a teacher...and
would've corrected any mistakes our young guys have...he is working with
Nerlens Noel...and i wont be surprised if noel develops a jumpshot while
@joe5even with henry Deng Pekovic and bledsoe...we'll just be a
fringe playoff team...this was always the Jazz's formula...to be in the
middle of the pack....but never good enough....i for one personally like Pekovic
because the dude shows toughness inside...but what lindsey did...was open up
opportunities...that we haven't actually done before...and that was to
build throught the draft....also every rookie is an unproven one...till given
You can see that the Jazz play well in stretches. The 1st 3 games could have
gone either way but turnovers and dumb plays have killed us. That said, as the
year progresses I think you will see fewer mistakes especially when we get a
good point guard running the team. It's hard to know how good Trey Burke
will be but I think he can be a big improvement over what we have now. I would
be an upgrade over what we have now! I think people are getting upset and making
dire projections after 5 games and it's going to take awhile to see
progress. But as many have said, loosing games this year could be the best thing
for the future. My biggest disappointment has been watching Favors get down on
himself especially this last game. He needs to get tougher mentally and play
through the tough times. I still believe he can be a monster but he needs to
pull his self up by his bootstraps.
Corbin is an atrocious coach. From the body language, to his cliche only lack of
insight into game play to his lack of in-game adaptation to flow of players, to
his preference for very low efficiency 'veterans'... and I'm not
convinced he, or his team of handkerchief wearing assistants, is the man to
instil the right team culture moving forward. If we aren't going to resign
him aftewr this year, why do we have to waste another year frustrated with his
lack of coaching decisions - clearly the worst coach in the league - and move
Jazz losing? No way? Fire the coach. I've been asking them to do this since
JS left. The current coache demands mediocrity from his team. He's there
asking his guys to be "just good enough" so he can keep his job. Jazz
keep making stupid trades and their draft picks are mediocre. Keep the coach and
I fully expect mediocre for the next X years he's coaching.
I love the Jazz but to all you fans that say the Jazz are getting better when I
watch this team I am reminded of the public defender in My Cousin Vinnie; after
his hilariously painful stuttering opening statement he comes back and says
"I'mmm gggettting bbbetter." He was fired shortly thereafter.
I'm not sure I have much more faith in this team.
I'm so glad I grew up watching Stockton, Horney and Malone etc, I
wouldn't spend a cent going to Jazz game now, especially to pad Greg
Farmhand: The Spurs are not a good example. They won the division the year
before they "tanked." They tanked because their All-Star player was
injured the whole year. They were a contender before Duncan was ever drafted.
The Jazz situation is nothing at all like the Spurs situation.
joe5To me 5 assists with 20 shot attempts is not a good ratio. I
watched the game, yeah he did ok. but it seems as if him, and the whole team for
that matter, are content with not playing team ball. As long as they get their
shots, everything is ok. The had 14 assists as a WHOLE TEAM last night. Boston,
who is a bad team, had 22 assists. I have seen point guards get 14 assists on
their own regularly. It isn't team basketball, it isn't good
basketball.And those that keep saying rebuilding year - the Jazz
have several players that were taken early in the draft already. Kanter, Favors,
Hayward, Marvin Williams, Burke. Do you think bringing in another young draft
pick that may or may not pan out is the answer? It might help, but I doubt it.
That is why it is called "lottery" picks. You may get a michael jordan,
you may get a sam bowie. You may get a Kevin Durant, you may get a Kwame Brown.
With the Jazz track record, Im betting on a bust.
Go figured, Brad Rock said that if the Utah Jazz becomes the worse team or
becomes last place then Utah would be in the first pick to take Jabari Parker.
Really Brad? Just keep trying little jazz players.
The Jazz should watch college Bball games, anyone could have seen Burke
wasn't all that great, Aaron Craft was better
Wow wish I could make millions of dollars sucking at my job
Jazz fans should be stoked! This season has 2 main goals: 1) Develop the young
players and teach them as much as possible, establish a team culture of winning
based on defense. 2) Tank and draft high potential Jabari/Wiggins (I think that
Parker could truly be the piece that gets us back to perennial contention)It would probably be more useful to measure the core players as a separate
team from the rest.Ideally, the young players will play well enough to stay in
games, but the Jazz lose many games because of their bench players. Imagine a
team that loses 15-20 games by 4 pts or less, then picks up a premier scorer and
has flexible cap space with bad contracts expiring. That's what 2014-15
could look like for this franchise. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Right now they are counting on their "core four". Aside from Hayward,
none of these guys have had much significant playing time. Tinsley and Lucas
are way past their prime and worthless. Let's see what happens when Burke
comes back, and Rush and Williams are back and 100%. Most of the other players
are past their prime, or are very young and inexperienced. Let's see what
happens when some of those young guys gain some experience and confidence. They
should land a superstar caliber player in the draft at this rate. Imagine how
they core 4 and Burke would look with Wiggins or Parker. Add a few decent role
players via free agency, and they will have a decent bench. This year will be
very painful, but it could produce some nice dividends in the future.
Hoping for 0-82. Then Wiggins or Parker and we're good to go.
@ Civil It isn't a "rebuilding year" -- it is another wasted
year."I doubt you will find many Spurs fans who think the
1996-1997 season was a "wasted year", when they went 22-60, then ended
up getting Duncan as the number 1 pick in the 1997 draft.It is supposed to
be a "rebuilding year", but granted is is kind of hard to rebuild
without first having a top tier coach. Corbin doesn't even come close, in
fact if the Jazz ever come to there senses and let him go, I seriously doubt you
will see any other teams knocking on the door to offer him a job. Also the
Clippers may have had a fistful of #1 picks, but that isn't always the best
either. You end up with a bunch of center pieces to the puzzle but are unable
to get the whole picture. I agree about Neto, I think he has better potential
than Burke, just my opinion.
kevo: You say that I'm emotionally involved as if you mean it to be an
insult.So first of all, what is wrong with being emotionally
involved?Second of all, what makes you think I'm more
emotionally involved than anybody else who has posted on here? In fact, I think
my comments have all been based on reason and logic. How do you define
"emotionally involved?" Someone who has a different opinion than you
with your cool-headed logic (which so far hasn't been in evidence on this
This is great! We can pick up a top 3 draft pick, hopefully Wiggens but Parker
would be nice too. Then with the current youth and the new top draft pick, we
gain momentum next year, maybe finish .500 and in 2-3 years we'll be a top
4 team in the West. We just need patience. Long-term Jazz have financial
flexibility and great young players with one more to join next summer.
0 - 82 seems well within reason now.Ugh.
coleman: They are getting better. They are getting noticeably worse game by
game.You don't learn to play good basketball by getting your
head beat in every night. In fact, it takes a toll on confidence (a vital
necessity to players), teamwork (a vital necessity to successful teams), and
individual habits (because you do desperate things you would normally not
do).Meanwhile the Jazz are delivering a message to all the players
in the league. "Don't come to Utah if you want to be part of a winning
organization." I cannot see one good reason why any free agent with any
other offer would choose to come to Utah unless the Jazz overpay.That means the team is setting up the revolving door. They will continually
draft in the lottery and then see their players leave when it comes time to get
paid after their rookie contracts. Hayward is only the first to decide to test
the waters. Next year the Jazz will have the same decisions with Kanter and
Burks. I'm willing to bet at least one of them doesn't come to terms
so he can test free agency.
Hey Joe. Lighten up a little. You're obviously emotionally involved in all
of this. Give it time and these guys will surprise you. They will win some games
that no one will see coming.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. We are in the process of
rebuilding after releasing all our veterans and our young players have a lot of
learning to do. One of the sore spots, however, is at the point guard position.
No one that we have now knows how to control the ball, particularly late in the
game, and know how to pass to open team-mates. This should be addressed when
Trey Burke gets back although he will need to learn a lot as well. I am
confident that everyone in the Jazz organization knew it would be a struggle
when you have a young team but you can't teach these young guys how to play
in the NBA until they get out on the floor and play. Up until this year, they
didn't have an opportunity to do so. We won't have a good record but
we will have a team we can build on in the future.
Say it with me, Andrew Wiggins!!!
Ballhog?Everyone's favorite, Paul George shot 6 for 19, with 3
assists last night. Hayword shot 12 for 20 with 5 assists.
BrahmaBull: It's fair to gripe about the Jazz but there is plenty to gripe
about while sticking to the truth. Hayward had five more assists last night and
he passed on several shots to make passes that did not result in baskets. How
exactly does that make him a ball hog?
Looking good jazz, looking good. I can see that the NBA remedy for losses is
playing the jazz, you will get an instant win immediately. Favors and Kanter
aren't starters in this league. They can't score when it is crunch
time. They are decent, but decent doesn't win games. Everybody using the
excuse as a rebuilding year - it might be a rebuilding decade. When the jazz put
this embarassing product on the court it makes me want to never spend another
dime going to a game. Management doesn't respect the fans enough to put
decent players out there, I am not interested in paying for that crappy product.
All the favors and kanter hype is gone, because they just aren't that good.
Neither is Hayward, he is becoming a ballhog.
The experts say the future looks bright. I don't see anyone with the moxie
to run this team. The current roster gets pushed around and used by everyone
Salt Tank City!
A grand experiment I heartily approved of appears to be going South.We
lost Burke to a freak injury....Nothing to be done about that.Lucas (the
veteran who was to school Burke) proves to be something of a bust.Corbin
manages to talk the hierarchy into re-hiring the Jamal "The Geritol Kid"
Tinsley.Now, in the midst of this supposed "youth movement",
the Utah Jazz have a 33 and a 37 year old on their starting five...both of whom
are well over the hill, though neither would admit it.In my opinion,
the hierarchy is to blame for not doing whatever it takes to get Neto over here.
This business of hurting someone's feelings doesn't wash...Anyone
remember how we got Boozer???....Also in my opinion, said hierarchy is to blame
for the whole mess....They cleaned out everyone except the one who needed to be
cleaned out the most....Ty Corbin.
Lets see... we have a talented center who cant defend, another talented defender
who wont shoot, and a bunch of others who only want to launch (unguided) skuds,
force bad shots, and throw the ball away, and heaven help anyone at the free
throw line. I wonder why we are 0-5?
Point guard please. Even if this is a rebuilding year, the Jazz need someone
that can run the point. Neto now! Please Burks don't play the point! More
Ian Clarke, when he gets minutes he will start hitting shots. Less or no
Tinsley. Favors get tougher.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. You are building a future and
loud criticism is only "noise" at this point. I am happy to see Ian
Clark playing. He is supposed to be a very good 3 ball shooter. Even if they go
0-82 which is still technically possible, that is okay, Kanter is playing well
and Hayward appears to have his head screwed back on. Favors is rebounding but
not shooting. They have no point guard right now. As a teacher, Corbin just
needs to stay the course and criticism needs to be put back in the "can of
Kakashi: Why do you feel the need neglect truth in your rhetoric? My opinions
during the free agency period are well known. You don't have to make things
up.- Yes, I wanted to offer Pekovic (a restricted free agent) a toxic
front-loaded contract. At best, we get a solid interior presence (better than
Biedrins and Gobert together) with a contract that still provided flexibility
when we need it to sign our young stars. At worst, Minnesota ends up with a
toxic contract that limits their near term options.- No, I did not want
Monte Ellis or Al Jefferson.I wanted Eric Bledsoe rather than an
unproven rookie who won't be ready for prime time for several years. By
then, some of the Jazz core will be on other teams.I wanted to
gamble on Xavier Henry (signed for less than $1M) as a role player.I
suggested S&Ts for Jefferson and Millsap that could have yielded
contributing veterans (ie: Deng).All my suggestions were designed to
protect our precious cap room; cap room that is now worthless since no
worthwhile free agent is going to want to play for this organization in its
And Corbin continues to struggle to find the right combinations. Just when
Favors starts playing better, Corbin pulls him. Ian Clark struggled, yet Corbin
left him in the game. Ty still calls timeouts about two possessions too late.
This can't be a surprise to anyone.
@Brave Sir Robini dont think anyone is expecting a Kobe or a Lebron
to come out from Hayward, Favors, Kanter and Burks...everyone is expecting for
them to learn and grow in the next few years or so...it might be long but
i'll enjoy the ride...@Civildid we have a fist full of
number one picks in the past decade? name me one Number 1 Pick in the past 2
decades...i dare you...dont say Deron Williams...Don't say
Kanter...Hayward...they weren't number 1 picks...@joe5i
guess you wanted the Pekovic...Al Jeff and/or monta ellis...yeah a playoff spot
would be nice...but would that bring home the championship no?....does this
current group of young guys can bring the championship...we don't
know...this is the first time Favors and Kanter getting 30 minutes a night...and
i know for sure...it will be a long ride...but im the kind of guy that is
willing to wait...if the team ever bring home the championship...be it with the
current players or not...i could proudly say...i was supporting them through
thick and thin...
This is team was supposed to struggle with flashes of brilliance but we're
only seeing struggles with no flashes. The team was supposed to be competitive
but undone by inexperience but they're just plain bad.This
makes me think on that record setting blowout loss to Houston last season and I
realize that this team is fundamentally flawed in ways that have nothing to do
with the roster and a good old fashion spring cleaning is in order.None of these things would have ever happened under Larry H. Miller's
watch. Thanks Greg!
All of a sudden it's like a new revelation to many of you that the Jazz are
going to struggle this year. Did you all not get the memo? The Jazz are going to
probably lose a ton of games. It will be a wild ride, maybe some you you need to
get off the roller coaster now and go get on the merry-go-round before you start
blowing chunks. The Jazz will slowly improve but it won't happen overnight.
My feeling is that if I can put up with Obama another 4 years I can get through
a rough patch with the Jazz.
I still feel this is a good team. Just short of a star or leader to be great,
who may or may not emerge from this bunch. However, it is clear that the
coaching staff is not able to get the best out of them. The scariest part for me
is that, a team which played fairly well in the first 3 games with a good chance
to win until the final mins, has regressed to losing badly in the last 2.
Through the first 33 games of the season, I see three chances to get a win:- Nov 13 New Orleans @ Jazz (game 9)- Nov 29 Phoenix @ Jazz (game 17)- Dec 7 Sacramento @ Jazz (game 22)- Dec 30 Charlotte @ Jazz (game
34)I can see this Jazz team setting records for losses. I'm
already on record predicting they will be 0-21 before they beat Sac on Dec 7. It
could get that ugly.
kevo: This isn't adversity. This is just bad decisions by the front office
compounded by bad coaching compounded by players whose skills are regressing
instead of improving. These are self-inflicted wounds.
Wow. I thought the Celtics might be the only team worse than the Jazz. Turns
out I was wrong.Oh, and lol at those of you who think the Jazz have
a bright future. This "hot young core" you're all looking forward
to seeing in the future has a very limited ceiling. The next Kobe isn't
among them. The next LeBron isn't among them. That ideal future Jazz team
would be 2-3 at this point in the season.
It isn't a "rebuilding year" -- it is another wasted year. What
are the young Jazz going to learn from a season when the bigs can't get the
ball in a good spot, when there are bushels of turnovers, when they are losing
every game? NOTHING! Players aren't going to progress much in
these circumstances.Is it a "rebuilding year," or a downward
spiral the likes of which the Clippers experienced for decades, despite a fist
full of #1 picks.The Jazz need a point guard. Go get the kid from
Europe. Buy out his contract, or waste this opportunity for him and everyone
else to learn.
@Meadow Lark Markerrr...this is a rebuilding season...i am sure as a
jazz fan you are aware of that?@Little AndyI agree Lucas and
Tinsley...arent that good...but...dont worry...next year we have Neto as a
backup...i am not sure...how good Trey Burke really is...because i am not sold
on his skills...but if he lived up to his reputation...then once we gets
back...tinsley and lucas would get reduced minutes...let's just hope Ty
Corbin is creative enough to use alec burks more...those end of game turnovers
are costing us...hayward kanter have good stat lines....i wish favors gets his
groove and be able to contribute consistently on offense as well....
It is not when the Jazz win their first game but "if." They should play
anybody (including the bear) before Tinsley/Lucas play. I was afraid of this
when they signed them..
I guess good bye season for the Jazz. They must be trying to get the worst
Yikes, guys. 0-5 is good enough for 30th place! Still, I like what the future
holds for the Jazz! Often, character is built in adversity.