Comments about ‘Employment bill signals changes in attitudes for, against gay rights’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 6 2013 6:25 p.m. MST

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Here, UT

"The exemption doesn't cover religious individuals or business owners, a concern raised by the Family Research Council."


It's not much of an "anti-discrimination" bill if you still allow "religious" individuals and businesses owned by "religious" individuals to discrminate against LGBT people, is it? Anybody could just claim "it's against my religion" and go right on discriminating.

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

Tolerance meets the tolerance trap.
Religious organizations are losing their right to refuse to hire gays. The left is demanding compliance even of those who, on religious grounds, consider homosexual practices sinful.
The Church has spoken much about religious liberty. How's that working out for ya?

mid-state, TN

Compare these statements:

"I'm going to the movies with my girlfriend."

"I'm going to the movies with my boyfriend."

Either one of those would be common enough in any employees' breakroom.

But if you're a man, you can legally be fired for daring to say one of them -- if you live in a state with no anti-gay-discrimination laws.

A coupla examples:

Lisa Howe -- college soccer coach in Nashville -- fired in 2010 after she told her team that her female partner was pregnant.

Vandy Beth Glenn -- legislative editor of the Georgia General Assembly -- fired in 2005 when she told her boss that she was transsexual and was going to begin dressing/presenting as a woman.

Jodi O’Brien -- a professor in Wisconsin -- she was offered a job as a university dean in 2010. When that university found out she was a lesbian, the offer was rescinded.

Kristen Ostendorf -- a schoolteacher in Minnesota -- she was fired in 2013 after acknowledging that she's a lesbian. At the same school, the school president resigned just a few months earlier after he acknowledged an 18-year relationship with another man.

This is a real problem, and it affects real US citizens.

Mcallen, TX

Employer mandates?

So much for American freedom.

Don't gays have the right to be employers?--No one took their rights away!

Many fought, and died for a free country. Yes! The freedom to run your business.

Here, UT


If "relgious organizations" want to run businesses, then they must serve ALL customers, not just those they approve of. Otherwise, they should just run their church and stay out of the secular sphere altogether.

mid-state, TN

@worf --

"So much for American freedom."

Since the writing of the US Constitution, Americans have never had the legal "freedom" to deny equal protection to all its citizens. The Equal Protection clause applies to *everyone*, not just to people you like.

"Many fought, and died for a free country. "

Yup. Including blacks, women, gays, atheists -- including just about any group that someone might want to discriminate against.

ALL citizens deserve equal rights. In the US, there is no "freedom" to deny them their equality.

layton, UT

Worf, "Many fought, and died for a free country." True, I Did.

Retired Army Maj. Gen. Patrick Brady, recipient of the U.S. military’s highest decoration, the Medal of Honor, as well as other top retired officers, is decimating the morale of the U.S. ranks to the point members no longer feel prepared to fight or have the desire to win.

“There is no doubt he is intent on emasculating the military and will fire anyone who disagrees with ” over issues as “homosexuals.

Not only are military service members being demoralized and the ranks’ overall readiness being reducedby the Obama administration’s purge of key leaders, colonels – those lined up in rank to replace outgoing generals – are quietly taking their careers in other directions.

“Over the past three years, it is unprecedented for the number of four-star generals to be relieved of duty, and not necessarily relieved for cause,” Boykin said.

“I believe there is a purging of the military,” he said. “The problem is worse than we have ever seen.”

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

Does that mean the LDS church has to hire gays?


This guarantees the future loss of more Republicans in the House.

Everybody *KNOWS* with absolute certainty that eventually not only such a bill, but also same-sex marriage, is coming to the United States, including to the shadows of the temples in Utah.

Here, UT


In their church, no. In their mall, probably, yes.


Religious institutions have been granted broad exceptions by the U.S. Supreme Court.

"In what may be its most significant religious liberty decision in two decades, the Supreme Court on Wednesday for the first time unanimously recognized a “ministerial exception” to employment discrimination laws, saying that churches and other religious groups must be free to choose and dismiss their leaders without government interference.

The case, Hosanna-Tabor Church v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, No. 10-553, was brought by Cheryl Perich, who had been a teacher at a school in Redford, Mich., that was part of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the second-largest Lutheran denomination in the United States. Ms. Perich said she was fired for pursuing an employment discrimination claim based on a disability, narcolepsy."
(Jan 2012)

Mcallen, TX


An employer should hire whom he wants. It's his right, and freedom. It's his business.

Equal Protection from what? How is the business owner hurting anyone? Blacks, women, gays, atheists, etc, have the same rights to start a business as anyone, and many have. The pride of hard work is very rewarding to all.

Equal rights do not mean having things handed to you. You earn it.

This is a country of opportunity for all people. We all have public education, and access.

Some work harder than others. That doesn't make them discriminatory. To whine against those who are successful is a shame.

Not perfect, but this is the least discriminatory country in history, and to twist the Constitution for a free ride is wrong.

Saratoga Springs, UT

Homosexuality has been declared by the prophets, both ancient and modern, to be a transgression of immense moral proportions. We have also been warned that those individuals and nations which choose to ignore the basic principles of morality will be destroyed, both individually and as a society.

As the United States and the world at large continues the slide into a moral abyss, those that choose to adhere to Biblical principles will be increasingly mocked and persecuted. At this point we have seen good men and women lose their jobs, fined, and jailed for refusing to support a homosexual lifestyle. I suspect that it will continue to get worse.

mid-state, TN

@worf --

"It's his right, and freedom."

Actually, it isn't -- if what he wants to do is to discriminate.

Take a look at the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It's been the law for a looooooooong time now.

"Equal Protection from what?"

From job discrimination, in the case of this particular bill.

"How is the business owner hurting anyone? "

Firing people who can do a job just as well as anyone else, just because they are gay (or black, or women, or whatever) hurts employees, of course.

"Blacks, women, gays, atheists, etc, have the same rights to start a business as anyone, and many have. "

They also have the same rights to be protected against job discrimination. Well, except for the gays, of course. And that's what this bill is about.

"The pride of hard work is very rewarding to all."

And what makes you think that blacks, women, or gays work any less hard than anyone else?

In many states a man can still be fired for saying "I'm going to the movies with my boyfriend." What has that statement got to do with his job performance or with how hard he works?

layton, UT

RE: Contrariuserer, “They also have the same rights to be protected against job discrimination. Well, except for the gays,”.

…ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool.(James 2:3)

mid-state, TN

@donn --

James 2:3-4 is actually a nice quote. Here's the NIV translation of it:

"If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?"

You could apply the same principle to gay vs. straight. If you show special attention to the straight man and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the gay man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

And also James 2: 12-13: "Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment."

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