Published: Thursday, Nov. 7 2013 12:00 a.m. MST
Liberals refuse to be judged on the outcome of their policies, only their intent
matters. Detroit anyone?
What better way to stimulate the slumping car industry (and satisfy the Auto
Workers Union that funded and organized your Presidential campaign) than to take
people's old cars away and give them government money to buy NEW ones!!It's a BRILLIANT plan!And I have to admit that it is
very mild compared to what modern Progressives in other countries would have
done given this "crisis" and this "opportunity".Be
happy we have MILD "Progressives" in the United States. Some
Progressives would not trust the people and give them a VOLUNTARY plan. They
would just "force them to it" (because the masses are obviously too
stupid to do it on their own) as Bill Maher, Michael Moore, and others have
suggested Obama do on Healthcare and other issues.Be glad this
wasn't a forced confiscation of your older vehicles by the Progressive
Gestapo, and they gave us an OPTION to give up our cars. I hope they are as
merciful when they decide they need to act on Global Warming, or they decide we
should not be allowed to have guns, our own private health insurance,
trans-fats, non-diet sodas, etc!At least this was voluntary!
As George rightly points out, the warts accumulating on the face of this
administration are so numerous they defy close examination, especially when
those doing the examining are primarily other elements of the same governmental
cabal (re: Attorney General Holder of the DOJ).The only real remedy
is, as it always is, in the hands of the ultimate power brokers in a democracy,
the electorate. We are the ones (speaking collectively) who elected these bozos
and it is only we who can find better alternatives. Which is the reason for my
increasing concern about the degeneration of the electorate.I
greatly fear that what we are seeing in government is a fair representation of
the declining integrity and general capability of the electorate as a whole.
Consequently, as the citizenry degenerates, so does the government. This has a
self-reinforcing degenerating effect with classic death-spiral implications that
terrify me.I hope and pray we can somehow pull ourselves out of
this, cause no one else is going to.
samhill,I agree with you completely. But I don't see viable
alternatives out there to replace current leaders. Republicans are
in such disapproval and disarray with half of them being Progressive-RINOs and
the other half being Independent/Libertarian/villainous TeaPeople (who
can't be organized enough to be effective, organizing Libertarians is known
to be like herding cats).I fear the more attention Libertarian
candidates get... the more that weakens the Republican alternative and almost
INSURES Democrat victory.I don't see anybody I could
enthusiastically vote for or realistically expect to win surfacing in the
Republican Presidential hopefuls. I don't see any Republican who could win
(not against Hillary or even a no-name Democrat).Even IF the
Republicans found a good candidate... Hispanics are now firmly against them,
gays are firmly against them, black America won't vote for them, Women
won't vote for them. All Democrats have to do is promise more stuff and
more welfare and say that Republicans will take away all your government
stuff... and they win hands down.I would really like to see things
change... but I honestly don't see any hope.
Ummm....Don't look now, but the program worked.Chevrolet,
Chrysler, and are still around.And they repaid those loans, WITH
interest.[Ford didn't take the loans, but still benefited from the
program.]Mitt Romney wanted them to go bankrupt.[most likely,
so his fellow vulture capitalists could have bought them out for next to
nothing, cut them up, and sold their assets to foreign investors.]As
it turns out, Millions of Americans didn't loose their jobs, Millions of Americans didn't loose their pentions, and
America's economic meltdown didn't get even worse than it already
was.Good?NoBetter than the alternative - Yes! By a long
shot.Now -- about that $3 Trillion dollars and 5,000 Americans
wasted and lost in the Middle East....
LDSLib,You may not be aware of this, but GM and Chrysler did eventually
declare bankruptcy to get out of their crippling debt.Google
"Does bailout critic Romney deserve credit for Auto Rebound"...This long quote from a CNN Money magazine article dated May 8, 2012..."Romney is right that the 2009 bankruptcy reorganizations at GM and
Chrysler played a major role in the turnarounds at those automakers. It allowed
them to shed billions in debt, along with plants, workers, brands and
dealerships they could no longer afford.And he's correct that
the automakers and the United Auto Workers union were initially opposed to the
bankruptcy process, uncertain that the companies would survive what they
expected could be months if not years in bankruptcy court. The federal bailout
helped the bankruptcy process get done in about two months.Conway
said the idea of a managed bankruptcy was not unique at the time. "Romney
might very well have had the idea, but it's not an idea no one else had on
their own," Conway said"...So... Somebody at CNN Money
thinks Romney wasn't all wrong on this one. I'm sure you will never
"Liberals refuse to be judged on the outcome of their policies, only their
intent matters. Detroit anyone?"How about after 8 years of
"conservative" leadership... the US economy anyone" Housing market
in free fall. Banks in disarray. Huge - no - massive subsidy of multiples of
industries, unemployment rate in a free fall, stock market halved in
value....Detroit has been a wreck since the early oil embargo
changed the automotive game, and the US companies failed to respond with
reasonable product. People will live in places with high taxes if there are
jobs - see New York and San Francisco.2Bits... if the US government
had not stepped in... there was no night in shinning armor at the time to save
GM and Chrysler. Remember - the financial markets were in melt down. Equities
had collapsed. There was no M&A going on at the time. That was the problem
with Romney's plan... there was no capital outside of the government that
could save them. There was no private money to spend.So Romney was
right on the idea - just not on the implementation... as there was no funds for
Their is no credibility in Government.Why so many people line up to
defend obama is crazy. I don't get it.We are just a gigantic
government ponzi scheme on ourselves.Power to the People.
Don't you just LOVE how conservatives keep trash talking America?
To "LDS Liberal" but they did go bankrupt AFTER the bailouts. Read the
article "Chrysler: From Bankrupt To A $6 Billion Company". You will
find that after the bailout it went bankrupt, then was sliced up, and sold
portions of it to a foreign company, Fiat.As part of the bankruptcy
Chrysler closed 789 dealerships. That means that about 40,000 people lost their
jobs as a result of the bankruptcy that you claim didn't happen.As for people losing their pensions, again, you are wrong. See the article
"Lee Iacocca, Chrysler retirees sue over pension losses" in USA
today.Any other myths that you believe that need dispelling?
UtahBlueDevil,RE: "How about after 8 years of "conservative"
leadership... the US economy anyone" Housing market in free fall. Banks in
disarray. Huge - no - massive subsidy of multiples of industries, unemployment
rate in a free fall, stock market halved in value"...You have a
very selective memory of the Bush years. You remember ONE YEAR very well, But
the Stock Market also hit it's all-time-high during the Bush years, and
unemployment hit all time lows during the Bush years. You won't give him
credit for that... will you? Only one year in the 8 is all that counts to
you.Conservative leadership got us through a pretty smooth stock
market recovery after 9/11. Those all time highs came AFTER the natural
downturn after 9/11. You won't give him credit for that either, will
you?You just twist and turn and spin things to make them reflect as
bad as possible... That's what we called Bush-obsession back then. I
guess it's hard to get rid of.---LDS LiberalRe: "Don't you just LOVE how conservatives keep trash talking
America"?I remember people saying the exact same thing about
Democrats during the Bush years.
2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UTYou have a very selective memory
of the Bush years. You remember ONE YEAR very well, But the Stock Market also
hit it's all-time-high during the Bush years, and unemployment hit all time
lows during the Bush years. You won't give him credit for that... will you?
Only one year in the 8 is all that counts to you.======== No my memory is as sharp as ever -- and I remember GW Bush was spending
all kinds of money he DIDN'T EVER have!Why do you think was
burning up causing that heat up super Nova flame out on the economy?sad, because that also shows me that your memory only goes back 5 years to
@2 bits "That's what we called Bush-obsession back then."I remember a couple of writers were calling it BDS: Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Apparently it has a long recovery time.@LDS LiberalCriticizing policy is not the same thing as trash talking America. When a plan
fails, it fails. Let's find something better to do next time. Obama keeps
trying the same old, discredited stuff.
@2Bits... no... I am looking at the score of the game at the end... not the
middle. What, you want to cherry pick out the and quarter of a game and call it
a success? Please.There is no doubt Detroit is a mess.... and yes,
spending was a contributing factor in the problem. It isn't that
companies stopped building cars in the US, they just stopped doing it in
Michigan, and liberal over spending is a contributory factor to that.But conservatives need to step up and realize and take responsibility once in
a while as well. You brought up Detroit.... well, then lets look at track
records, in the fullest. Not as you say cherry picking out dates. Lets look at
the final score. Denial of responsibility seems to be a well honed skill. I
didn't even mention the two series of "stimulus" checks that was
sent out to everyone under Bush, except to those in my income bracket. The problems with pieces like this is they don't explore the
scenario had nothing been done - in any of the stimulus packages. Doing nothing
also had a cost.... which was not discussed.
To visualize the Obamacare debacle, view a utube of the Hindenburg disaster.
Why do conservatives hate Americans so much that they want the majority of them
"Even IF the Republicans found a good candidate... Hispanics are now firmly
against them, gays are firmly against them, black America won't vote for
them, Women won't vote for them. All Democrats have to do is promise more
stuff and more welfare and say that Republicans will take away all your
government stuff... and they win hands down."No "bits"
All Democrats have to do is say we aren't going to send home 12 million of
you. All Democrats have to do is say your children brought here and raised here
don't need to look over their shoulder all the time. All Democrats have to
do is say women "you" get to have reasonable choices about your own
body. All Democrats have to do is say we believe you shouldn't be fired
from your job or denied housing because of who you are. All Democrats have to
do is say we don't believe you should be stopped on the street and searched
because of what you wearing or the color of your skin, and you certainly
shouldn't be shot and killed for that.Free stuff? I guess so.
@2 bitsThey only would survive bankruptcy with the infusion of capital
they had from the bailout. The private sector wasn't going to generate
those funds. So Romney was still wrong.
@2bits"Hispanics are now firmly against them, gays are firmly against
them, black America won't vote for them, Women won't vote for them.
All Democrats have to do is promise more stuff and more welfare"So... Hispanic, black, homosexual, and women Americans are lazy moochers?"Republicans are in such disapproval and disarray with half of them
being Progressive-RINOs"If half of Republicans or even a quarter
of Republicans were Progressive then I'd like them a lot more but they
aren't. Turns out Progressive doesn't mean "supports things 2bits
doesn't like".@patriot"To visualize the Obamacare
debacle, view a utube of the Hindenburg disaster."Or the
Medicare Part D rollout (where Republicans in congress urged for patience since
implementing these programs takes time) or the Romneycare rollout which only
signed up 2k people the first month.
Cash for clunkers, a great program? A relative tried to cash in his
gas guzzling 1986 Crown Victoria station wagon. It didn't qualify, so he is
still driving it.If that old car isn't a clunker, I don't
know what is.
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