@ lost... I said nothing about which side stole more money from their children.
So I wasn't being dishonest. I think you assumed that since I criticized
the Republicans for their form of welfare that I was saying that what they did
was numerically equal. However, I make no such claim. I don't know which
side has stole more from their kids? Both have... is all I am saying.
@ Joe, How much choice do you really believe in? Are you an
advocate of the state dictating family size? Do you believe in setting
government policy, so that it penalizes choice? Do you only believe in choice,
when is comes to abortion? Are you certain that family size is ALWAYS a choice?
Why not penalize welfare and foodstamp users. Make them pay more for their
choice to use the welfare system? Afterall, I don't use it. I CHOOSE not to
use it, why should I pay for it? "Children cost money" Master of the obvious, what does that have to do with taxes? Kids are
not possessions, they are persons. Each person should represent a deduction,
unless you want to eliminate all deductions for everyone. If you only want to
look at one side of the equation, yes smaller families pay more actual taxes.
However, larger families are penalized also, because they have less after tax
dollars to spend, per person. And I know, that would be the case even if their
were not taxes, but I find that to be even more reason for self centered persons
to quit complaining.
To "Shaun" if challenger is such a joke, how do you explain the fact
that they have an average of 96 on the Iowa Skills test?Also, since
they can pick and choose, doesn't that say that schooling is more than just
how much money is spent per child? A prime example is the Washington DC school
district. They spend around $15,000 per child, yet their test scores are near
rock bottom.If you want to discuss class size, lets look at Korea.
They constantly out perform the US on international tests. Yet their average
class size is 32 students in elementary school and 35 in High School.
Apparently class size isn't a factor either.What makes the
difference? Is it possible that the difference is the society and the home
environment? How do you legislate that parents care about their child's
education and demand that their children behave?
Joe, I appreciate your comment about, "We all benefit from an educated
populace."You find financial value in ensuring every child is
educated, yet complain when you have to contribute to that education because
your perception is that you use the education system the least. You are using
that system whether you also contributed to the other expenses of raising the
current or future generation of taxpayers or not. They are the ones who are, or
will be, paying taxes for your participation in society.The
alternative would be to require that parents cover the full cost of educating
their children. Then any future tax revenues resulting from that education flow
back to the sole investors in education, the parents. And since all taxes of any
kind can be attributed to education, all government functions would be
exclusively for those with children.So, as long as you insist on
scamming future government services off the backs of my children, I see nothing
wrong with giving you the privilege of investing in their education.By the way, did I help pay for your education?You are welcome.
"Why should one family have less after tax dollars per soul then the other.
They will anyway, but why should they be penalized more."Uh,
wouldn't it be because they made the choice to have more children?
Children cost money.How do you figure that they are being penalized?
Today, the smaller family pays more in taxes than the larger family. Are they
not being penalized for that choice?We all benefit from an educated
populace. But it is ridiculous to make those who use the education system the
least pay the most.You rant most days about the entitlement
mentality, but then you espouse it here.
@redshirt. Challenger is a joke. And besides private schools can discriminate
and public schools can not.
"it makes absolutely zero sense to give exemptions on income tax to the very
people using the most educational resources" Yeah, and while
were at it, it makes zero sense giving exemptions and handouts to the very
people using welfare, wasting all our social resources. Same logic!
And while your at it lets take away any exemptions for those who own extra
houses, boats, cars, jewelry, land, medical care and benefits or any other kind
of property and compensation.. Since the typical ninny complaining and making
this argument is trying to equate kids to property, lets just take it to the
extreme. Here is why the exemption exists. 2 families making 50K
a year. One has 2 souls living off 50K, the other has 6 souls living off 50K.
Why should one family have less after tax dollars per soul then the other. They
will anyway, but why should they be penalized more. BTW, how much are you really
going to increase revenue with this idea? Couple million? One school district
will make that disappear in mere moments, they think they are so underfunded.
To "atl134" spending more won't solve any problems. Right now we
spend over $8000 per year per child if you include building costs for public
schools. You can send a child to the Challenger Private schools for about the
same amount of money. Why is it that a for-profit private school can provide
better educations for kids than public schools, if the problem is money?
@RedshirtUtah is already last in the nation in per child education
spending. What do you want, class sizes of 50?
Wouldn't it just be easier to cut the fat out of the state and district
education groups? Since nationally less than 70% of the money spent on
education actually makes it to the classroom, wouldn't it free up more
money to cut out worthless positions and get education plannin back down to the
school level where they can customize it for their local needs, rather than
somebody from Panguich deciding what Salt Lake City schools need?
"Unless Utah changed how it funds schools, Income taxes with our without
deductions do not fund schools, property taxes do. "In Utah 100% of
state income taxes go to education. So no, it makes absolutely zero sense to
give exemptions on income tax to the very people using the most educational
"As of now, school is funded mainly from property taxes; there is no child
exemption.""Income taxes with our without deductions do not
fund schools, property taxes do."What? By law, ALL corporate
and Individual income taxes in Utah go to schools. Yes, the
exemptions make a difference. Google. It is a wonderful thing. Education Funding Sources1. State Income TaxUtah has a
5 percent individual and corporate income tax. Utah’s Constitution
mandates that all of those funds be spent on K-12 and higher education.
Approximately 55 percent of all education funding comes from state income taxes.
Child exemptions seemed to work well years ago when it was not just the LDS who
had larger families, but everyone did. Why don’t they work now? Oh,
because now YOUR family is smaller than your neighbor’s family. Hamath,Actually the dems have borrowed more money from the Chinese than
the GOP. Why do you feel the need to introduce dishonesty into the
conversation? BTW, I don’t believe Utah is borrowing from the Chinese.
Oh, the Chinese may hold some Utah bonds, but nothing compared to dem-generated
federal obligations.Sal,No, the author probable cannot
As of now, school is funded mainly from property taxes; there is no child
exemption. As for income taxes, there are lots of other exemptions and "tax
credits". Economists will tell you that it makes good economic sense to have
growth. Indeed the our economy is suffering in no small part because of the
decline in our birthrate. Curiously, Muslim countries have the highest
birthrate. I'm also reminded of those who move out into the mountains and
then seek to prohibit others from doing likewise.
Unless Utah changed how it funds schools, Income taxes with our without
deductions do not fund schools, property taxes do. In that environment a larger
family has a high probability of actually paying a higher amount into the school
system than someone who does not need a larger and more expensive house. So,
cowboy up and quit griping about educating the people whose labor in the future
will be creating the return on your retirement investments.
"We need the kind of citizens that Utah parents produce."Oh
well sorry for being born in Maryland.
"We need the kind of citizens that Utah parents produce."Really? As opposed to the "the kind of citizens" produced in Iowa or
Georgia?Or do you mean "mormons"?
Let's not discourage parents from having children. We need the kind of
citizens that Utah parents produce.I prefer that the legislature
identify waste in the education system, especially at the administrative level,
and apply that to the decreasing of class sizes and the raising of pay for
teachers.Can the letter writer explain how the most highly funded
district in the nation (D.C.) still produces the worst scores?
"It benefits me to have an educated populace in Utah"Of
course an educated populace benefits everyone. That is not the point, nor is it
the argument.It is not unusual that, because of the deductions, the
families with the most children, pay the least for their children's
education.Yes, we all benefit, but none more than those who actually
receive the education.
so... the 3rd child is somehow different than the 2nd?? Reeks of
discrimination.I would prefer to get rid of the tax exemption for
children altogether. It's just the way the Republicans found of selling
Chinese borrowed money to their constituents for votes in the future. It's
called entitlement programs. Just like the Democrats sell their Chinese
borrowed money to welfare and food stamp constituents. Good job to all those
bought voters out their. You sold your vote by getting money from China, via
politicians, that your children will have to repay. It's called stealing
in most civilized societies.
I no longer have children at home, but I would prefer to see the state income
tax rate raised rather than eliminate the child deduction. It benefits me to
have an educated populace in Utah. I want Utah's economy to grow and
education is the key to economic growth.