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Comments about ‘My view: Gender identity may change how marriage works’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 6 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Ranch
Here, UT

"If Utah should ever recognize “gender identity” in the code as an acceptable definition of gender — “you are who you say you are” — then what will stop two same-sex people from marrying?"

Same sex marriages are coming to Utah, Gayle. You'd better get used to the idea, and no, your head won't explode when it does.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

"California actually passed a law, signed by the governor, allowing students in all grades to choose which bathrooms, dressing rooms or showers they will use, as well as on which sports teams they will play".

I can't imagine most guys would complain about this.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

"...what will stop two same-sex people from marrying? "

Same-sex marriages will soon be recognized nationwide anyway, so this is a very weak argument against anti-discrimination legislation.

The issue of GID (Gender Identity Disorder) is complex and confusing, no doubt. However, more people need to understand that people don't just "decide" that they belong to the opposite gender. GID is a very real phenomenon with real biological roots.

1. GID has been connected to multiple biological factors such as genetics, changes in brains structure, and prenatal exposure to hormones.

2. GID may occur as frequently as 1 in 500 people.

3. Most people diagnosed with GID identify experience gender dysphoria before puberty.

4. Twin studies indicate that GID is 62% heritable, and therefore has a strong genetic influence.

5. In male-to-female transsexuals, GID is often associated with genetically-induced androgen insensitivity.

6. Male-to-female transsexuals have been found to have a typically female stria terminalis (part of the brain), while female-to-male transsexuals have a typically male stria terminalis.

7. In addition, the hypothalamus in male-to-female transsexuals appears to function as a typical woman's does.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

Be afraid - be very afraid!

Here's a novel idea: why not show respect for everyone's dignity, and instead of having communal locker rooms, showers, and bathrooms have areas that are more private? Same sex or different sex, why should anyone be put in a position of being forced to undress, shower, and dress in front of other people? Why are men forced to urinate in front of other men?

Instead of whining about one or two people who may make us uncomfortable, let's offer everyone dignity and privacy.

(Oh, and by the way - chances are you would be hard pressed to tell the birth gender of a pre-transition transgender individual at anything short of a shower together. Post-transition, you wouldn't even know then. And opposite sex marriages have been turned into same sex marriages when one spouse comes out and transitions. Those marriages frequently end in divorce since the individuals involved are usually not homosexual.)

Zac
Ogden, UT

I don not really care about the marriage part. The part that is disgusting is the bathroom and locker room uses. Regardless of what you feel you are, if you have boy parts, use the boys restroom. If you have girl parts, use the girls restroom.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Gayle, nothing in utah should stop two same sex people from marrying, except whatever age or other legal requirements there are to be met.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

"The Arcadia Unified School District and the U.S. Department of Education have reached an agreement to end an investigation into allegations of discrimination against a transgender student.

The student, who has attended Arcadia schools since kindergarten and is now entering ninth grade, has identified as a boy from a young age, according to the agency. He began the transition to living as a male during fifth grade.

In 2011, the Department of Justice received complaints alleging that during the boy’s sixth and seventh grade years, the district did not allow the student to use boys' restrooms and locker rooms.

The complaints also alleged that during a district-sponsored overnight camp, the student was not allowed to stay in a cabin with male students and was instead required to stay in a cabin separate from all his classmates."
(LA Times)

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

November is Transgender Awareness Month, a month intended to cultivate empathy, dispel inaccurate stereotypes, and improve understanding of a widely misunderstood community. How fitting that the DesNews chose to observe the month with an op-ed that does none of these and only perpetuates ignorance and stigmatization.

By the way, Ms. Ruzicka is over a decade late with her fears about marriage. In 1999, a transgendered woman from Tooele married a genetic woman, using and old drivers license that still listed her as male. This would be Utah's first recognized same-sex marriage (to the best of my knowledge).

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Its only common sense that men should only be allowed in men's restrooms, and females in females in restroom.

And people don't decide their gender any more than I can decide I am a flying purple dinosaur. There is a big big difference between what someone IS, and what someone THINKS they are.

I may think I am a flying purple dinosaur.

Or a piano.

But I am not.

Sal
Provo, UT

Contraius, you state that people don't just decide which gender they are. A sexual predator would in order to gain access to a girls' restroom or shower facility.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

On the front page of ABC News today there is a story of a man who thinks he is a dog.

It is very similar to people who have been deemed one gender by competent medical professionals, disagree under they claims they think/feel they are a different gender.

No difference.

A man in a dress is a man in a dress

A man who has asked doctors to alter his physical anatomy is a man who has asked a doctor to alter his physical anatomy.

People born men and claim to be women are no more women than this man from the ABC news story is a dog.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

People are jobless,
People are homeless,
People are starving,
People are dying,
The rich get richer,
The poor are getting poorer,

And Gayle is afraid of the 1 in 10,000 chance a transgendered person might - MIGHT - be occupying the stall next to us.

Sorry Charlie!
SLC, UT

Its so nice of Gayle and Chris to provide the willfully naive point of view of a very serious and complex issue.

Danny Chipman
Lehi, UT

XX and XY bathrooms. Easy enough solution.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

Heh, don't worry Gayle, considering the article about the defense of Utah's marriage amendment that would definitely be rejected by the court if that's all they have, same-sex marriage may not be far away anyway. Then the gender identity thing for marriage won't matter.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Thinking here for a minute....

So, it's OK for a homosexual dressing or undressing in the presences of those he/she already finds sexually attrative.

and yet - a transgended dressing or undressing around those they are NOT attracted to [and therefor NOT tempted] by?

If this is about sexual temptations or exploitation -- then Gayle is missing it.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@Sal --

"A sexual predator would in order to gain access to a girls' restroom or shower facility."

That's part of the "complex and confusing" issue.

People with GID have real biological bases for their gender dysphoria. It isn't even remotely related to Chris deciding that he's Barnie. Nonetheless, it is also true that some people -- like your hypothetical sexual predator -- might take advantage of some anti-discrimination legislation, depending on how carefully it's written.

Nobody has all the answers, and there is no perfect solution. But dealing with the issue in a rational way requires that we recognize GID as a real issue, and not merely dinosaur fantasies.

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

What gender someone thinks they are is subjective. Their anatomy is objective.
I feel poor, can I skip paying my taxes?

What if Bob, the pedophile, decides to self-identify as a female on Tuesday so he goes into the girl's dressing room. As Chris said, it is common sense. Everyone else has a willfully naive point of view of what is going to happen.

Ranch
Here, UT

How many of you actually segregate your bathrooms in your home? How many have a separate one for the boys and girls?

This really is a non-issue.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@Tekakaromatagi --

"Their anatomy is objective."

That is often not true.

There are many causes and degrees of "intersex" conditions. Some of them are readily apparent on physical exam, and some are not.

According to the Intersex Society of North America, roughly 1 in 1500 to 2000 babies have enough ambiguity in their physical appearance that a specialist in sexual differentiation has to be called in. Roughly 1 or 2 in every 1000 babies require surgery to make their physical appearance closer to "normal" expectations, and roughly 1 in every 100 have some noticeable difference from "typical" appearance.

And that's only the intersex conditions that cause **external, visible** changes. Many other conditions cause only internal changes, which may *never* be detected without specialized testing.

As for the chromosomes -- roughly 1 in 1700 babies is neither XX nor XY. About 1 in 1000 is XXY, and some are XO. And there are other chromosomal abnormalities as well.

One recent well-known example is Steve Crecelius. Steve is a former cop and father of five. A few years ago he went into the hospital for an unrelated problem. Ultrasound exam for that problem discovered that "he" has ovaries and a uterus.

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