JSF.... you don't distinguish the difference between people who actually
killed people because of either their race or religion, with fictionalized
characters? Wow.If making the distinction between those
two makes you "politically correct"....... then paint me with a giant
People dress as ax murderers, but no one thinks they are condoning murder.
Dressing as KKK is no different. They weren't condoning the actions of the
KKK. These students were portraying something scary, which is what Halloween is
all about. We all agree they succeeded in that goal. What a great
opportunity for the school to educate, and they missed it, favoring punishment
(suspension) over education.
What if they had dressed up as mobsters who also murder people or as convicts or
as devils or as witches, heaven forbid. Halloween is a pagan holiday and is all
about evil so what is the issue?
The KKK and other like minded individuals lynched tens of thousands of
individuals in the Deep South from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights
movement. I'm not sure it counts as genocidal but certainly mass murder.
And certainly tasteless...
@jsf --"As for time, how does that change the justification of a
depiction. "Seriously?? You really expect people to be as
offended by a costume of a 300-year-old event as by depictions of murderers who
are still living today??"There are Wicca practitioners
currently. Why then is portrayal of a witch ok but kkk is not? "For one thing, Wicca practitioners aren't the witches being portrayed --
no bubbling cauldrons, pointy hats, and so on. Again, it's that pesky
fact-vs-fiction issue.You keep avoiding my question, so I'll
ask you again: We can easily stick with the Boston Marathon amputee if you like.
Would such a costume be "good clean fun" to you?A yes or no
answer would be nice.
As for time, how does that change the justification of a depiction. If the
depiction is wrong now, then 300 years does not change the intent of the
depiction. Its been over a hundred years since the atrocities by the Germans on
Shark Island in Africa, and the English during the Boer wars where 26,000 women
and children were to perish in their concentration camps. There is nobody alive
today who knew, was related to, or has any close association with or exposure to
those acts. So that would be okay to portray in a Halloween costume but the kkk
should not. There are Wicca practitioners currently. Why then is portrayal of a
witch ok but kkk is not? Time is no justification. If it is wrong today, then
it will always be wrong, if it would have been wrong back then then, it should
be wrong today. The argument between fictional and actual does not stand.
@jsf --"those students in the classrooms with the Jason or
Freddie costumes had no choice about attending class, and no prior knowledge
that those costumes would be there. "Yet again -- fact vs.
fiction. Can you really not tell the difference?"The Salem witch
trials were real, victims of the eras pc."They were also 300
years ago. There is nobody alive today who knew, was related to, or has any
close association with or exposure to those witch trials.Wait
another 300 years, and we may be able to feel the same way about the KKK. But
not yet."How do you make a costume of somebody who jumped from
the World Trade Center, wear a suit and tie? "I was thinking
more of a lot of blood, a very flat person, and/or a skirt blowing up in the
wind. But the technique used to make the costume is entirely irrelevant, as
I'm sure you're well aware.We can easily stick with the
Boston Marathon amputee if you like. Would such a costume be "good clean
fun" to you?
In contrast, those students in the classrooms with the Jason or Freddie costumes
had no choice about attending class, and no prior knowledge that those costumes
would be there. The Salem witch trials were real, victims of the
eras pc. and yet you don't get upset about the callous depiction of
witches. People in the class would have no prior knowledge that those costumes
would be there. And don't say there is no such thing as a witch it is just
fictional. You use the example of poor taste of a costume to be a
Boston Marathon amputee or the people who jumped from the World Trade Center
while it was burning. How do you make a costume of somebody who
jumped from the World Trade Center, wear a suit and tie? Halloween
costumes are by the nature of the event either jovial portrayals of people in
history, film and literature or the portrayals of ghoulish, and frightening
people in history, film and literature.The kkk argument is poor pc
@jsf --"What is the difference between representing a Hollywood
character depiction based on real-life mass murderers, serial killers, and
genocidal maniacs or the individuals they are based on? "The
differences are obvious.For one thing, Hollywood is not making light
of the real crimes when they do "true crime" stories. In contrast, the
whole point of Halloween costumes is to have fun and make light of the
characters being depicted.For another thing, nobody is forced to go
see movies -- and everyone knows what they're going to see when they do
choose to see them. In contrast, those students in the classrooms with the KKK
costumes had no choice about attending class, and no prior knowledge that those
costumes would be there.How would you feel if somebody thought up a
costume to be a Boston Marathon amputee? Or a costume representing one of the
people who jumped from the World Trade Center while it was burning? Would that
be "good clean fun" as well?There are limits."We let our children dress as Darth Vadar, or Storm troopers every
Halloween."Again -- fact vs fiction. There is a difference.
"Let's start with real-life mass murderers, serial killers, and
genocidal maniacs." What is the difference between representing a Hollywood
character depiction based on real-life mass murderers, serial killers, and
genocidal maniacs or the individuals they are based on? And yet you
leave it open for more senseless censorship based on what you think is right and
PC. Now we have a six year old being suspended for drawing a costume of a Ninja
with a gun. A Drawing. He could have drawn the ninja with a sword and that is
ok, the sword does the same thing as a gun in the hands of a ninja.
@Brave Sir Robin --"Remember the "pregnant nun" costume
that used to be really popular? "Pregnant nuns aren't
murderers."If we're going to allow or not allow Halloween
costumes based on subjective criteria like "callous" and
"tasteless", this issue is going to keep cropping up over and
over."Let's start with real-life mass murderers, serial
killers, and genocidal maniacs. Surely that's not a difficult criterion to
The KKK were a bad political driven force tied to progressive ideas of the era
supporting ideals such as eugenics and prohibition. Across the south they were
tied closely with the Democrat party. Halloween costume are often based on the
macabre, being ghoulish, horrid, and deathly. We let our children dress as
Darth Vadar, or Storm troopers every Halloween. These are Hollywood's
version of Hitler and the SS troops. We have costumes portraying
Hollywood's Jason and Freddie the epitome of death and destruction. Yet we
allow them, with out allowing for the Nazis and KKK to be shown for the horrid
people they were. P.C. is way out of control. Who are they protecting. And
having the NAACP investigating a person of color dressing as a member of a
despicable group that was a scary group, get real. Next it won't be PC to
dress up as an IRS form CP 2000, the IRS letter that carries the most fear to
any American, because it might offend the IRS.
@Contrarius"It is at the least extremely callous and tasteless
to wear such costumes to school."And therein lies the problem:
Who gets to decide what is callous and tasteless? You? Me? What is callous
and tasteless to me might not be to you. Remember the "pregnant nun"
costume that used to be really popular? Callous and tasteless or not? I
thought it was funny, but then again I'm not Catholic. Maybe a Catholic
person might find it callous and tasteless. What if I dress like Fidel Castro?
I actually did that once, but maybe it would offend someone from Cuba.If we're going to allow or not allow Halloween costumes based on
subjective criteria like "callous" and "tasteless", this issue
is going to keep cropping up over and over.
@DN Subscriber 2 --"It's a freaking COSTUME, on a day when
people wear COSTUMES. Not a political statement or a midnight surprise raid or
something."Really?Would it be "funny" if
these kids came dressed as Nazis? How about if they came as suicide bombers? Or
how about if they brought fake guns and pretended to be the Sandy Hook shooter?
It's just a costume, right??Some folks here seem to be
forgetting the difference between fact and fiction. Vampires are not real. Jason
Vorhees was just a movie. And letter jackets were never associated with
lynchings or mass murders.The KKK is a real hate group that was
really responsible for a lot of real terror and real deaths. It is at the least
extremely callous and tasteless to wear such costumes to school.
IN the 1960's a group of students wore black arm bands, in support of the
civil rights movement, to school in Montana. The school opposed it and took
action. A legal case ensued and it went to the SCOTUS. The decision handed down
stated in part that students do not give up their constitutional rights when
they enter the school house door. It this case it was their first amendment
right to freedom of expression. (I, however, have not seen the word expression
in the first amendment.)This is entirely forgotten when the
government disagrees with the actions of a student.Get real, this
Kudos to the fellow students at the school. They understand even if a few
posters here do not.
DN Subscriber:Sorry, but this time being "politically
correct" is the correct call.
While I usually would give school administrators a wide latitude in dealing with
the various problems that come up at schools; I think they have made a big
mistake with this.It opens up a whole "can of worms".Why are dracula costumes acceptable? Some people like to dress like a
"devil". BOTH those costumes personify evil.Should the kids
be told they can ONLY dress as "superheroes" (as long as they are
"positive" superheroes")?A couple of years ago a few of the
moms at my kids school came dressed as "playboy bunnies" - the school
told them it was unacceptable. They went home and changed. I support the
school in that decision. The moms should have known better. But kids just like
to be goofy. Thats' their nature.I suspect that next year the
kids will push the "window" of acceptance even further in order to see
what they can get away with.Maybe the school has created more
problems than they've solved?
DN Subscriber... you comments point to exactly what is wrong with the extreme
conservative movement. The idea that kids dressing up as klan members, or Nazi
SS.... that this is appropriate to have our kids wear these as entertainment to
you... speaks volumes. You decry "political
correctness"..... as weakness.... is unfortunately not surprising at all.
When society has thrown away all decency.... when we have a society where
vulgar language is no longer frowned up..... when we have people who find it
acceptable to behave in ways their own church leaders decry.... when we view
pornography as just another form of entertainment.... we have lost or
civility.What the Klan "costume" represents.... is not
innocent in any sense of the imagination. Its sole purpose was to intimidate,
to put fear in minorities... that it represents people who would hang a man
without trial... that it represents a group that blew up a church filled with
small children.... that you find no offense here.... I wish shocked me.You demean it as Political correctness... I call it teaching or kids manners,
decency, and respect. I am sorry, but I think these things still have value.
It's a freaking COSTUME, on a day when people wear COSTUMES. Not a
political statement or a midnight surprise raid or something.If this
is not acceptable, then ban ALL costumes, and anything that might possibly
offend, scare, or impugn someone. Start with all athletic team garb, anything
with a college logo (might offend someone no going to college), anything with a
cross or any other possible religious symbols (trees, maybe?). And any color-
some gangs might like or dislike them.Make all the students wear
uniforms, or birthday suits, since everyone at least is dressed the same that
way.Political correctness is a horrible disease that infects far too
I hope these kids realize dressing up as a group that would hurt and murder
people is not funny. I hope their parents did not know they were going to dress
up that way. The kids at that grade level should have been taught who the KKK is
and how they are bad. There is no excuse for them dressing that way. They owe an
apology to the school and community.
Suspension? Really? Wheres the tolerance?