And yet that record is STILL best among coaches here in Utah.Every
coach has a better winning percentage against losing teams, why not give us some
averages comparing him to Bronco? Or to the rest of the nation?
After this year, Kyle will have TWO wins against BCS bowl participants and END
of season top 10 teams(Alabama and Stanford - likely top1 10 and BCS bowl)Number of wins against END of season top 10 wins for Bronco?ZeroNumber of wins against BCS bowl participants for Bronco?Zero
I'll be that 60% is pretty similar for coaches. Another smear article by
the des news against a coach who actually has proven he can have a quest for
perfection and BCS glory.
@christinaWhat makes you so sure stanford will finish in the top 10?
They will more than likely lose to oregon this week which will once again drop
them out of the top 10. If oregon goes to the bcs championship game, a likely
occurance, then stanford will default into the rose bowl where they will
probably get unceremoniously pummeled by a superior ohio state team. That is at
least 3 losses right there and no chance of being in the top 10.I'll give you this, you aren't afraid to make foolish comments and
predictions, or maybe you truly believe them which makes it even sadder. LOL!
"Or do Kyle Whittingham-coached teams struggle against quality opponents in
general?"The past three years they've struggled to have a
healthy QB by mid season when conference play is going which tends to be a
problem. Has Utah even had their beginning of season starting QB healthy for
even a third of these conference games? Utah has shown an ability to still get
quality wins when healthy as evidenced by 3 early season wins against the
quality opponent BYU during these three years.
Utah is a good program, just have to learn to compete every week. Instead
focusing on "BSC Glory", they should focus on winning a game.Some people are really obsessed with defending their teams by knocking down
other teams. Sad really.
Versus PAC 12 TeamsBronco 9-8(53%)Kyle 12-18(40%)Versus
BCS TeamsBronco 15-15(50%)Kyle 21-20(51%)AP Top 25
FinishesBronco 4Kyle 2AP/Coaches Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 111+ Win SeasonsBronco 3Kyle 110+ Win SeasonsBronco 5Kyle 3Conference
ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1Wins versus teams with
winning recordsBronco 31Kyle 28Losses versus teams with
losing recordsBronco 5Kyle 6Losses to 10+ loss teamsBronco 0Kyle 2Bowl GamesBronco 8Kyle 7Losing SeasonsBronco 0Kyle 1Overall RecordBronco
80-31(72%)Kyle 74-36(67%)If not for Kyle's perfect storm
2008 season, the Utes wouldn't have much, if anything, in the way of any
real accomplishments under Kyle's leadership.
"Omitting 2008"? Yeah, THAT's an objective view of Whit's
record.Ute fans need a red pompon-waiving homer writing for the
DNews so hit-pieces like this have some balance by comparing Whit's entire
record with the other coaches in-state, and strength of schedule, etc. But if that homer is like Dick Harmon, never mind. We don't need our own
house organ to tell us the U is in a tough conference and yet still beats the Y
like a rented mule.
Whittingham - a great MWC coach. Pac-12? Not so much.
College football in Utah is always interesting. BYU started bad and has worked
its way to be good. Ute's started good but now are falling, and USU started
moderate then got hurt and now going back up to be a decent team.
Let's face it, there are very very very few teams who manage to maintain a
national profile year after year. Again though, having a membership to an elite
gym does not make you able to automatically lift 500 lbs. The Utes had some
glory. Give them credit. Give Whittingham credit. But outside of beating BYU
(and Standford? How did that happen?), there hasn't been much to glory for
these past few years.
Only 28% of Oregon's FBS wins this year have come against winning teams.
I guess Oregon is not very good. 100% of BYU's losses this year
have come against teams that are .500 or below. BYU must be terrible. What do they say about statistics?
True Blue,Simply being in the top 25 isn't all that impressive,
25 teams do it ever year.Tell me, would you rather have a team that
has a #2 end ranking one year and a #48 ranking the next year, or two
consecutive years at #25 and #25.I'll take a program that has
higher highs and lower lows any day!Best season ever for Whit or
Bronco?WhitBest bowl win ever for Whit or Bronco?WhitHighest ranking ever for Whit or Bronco?Whit
Look at the Mountain West conference standing right now. 7 out of 12 teams are
at or below .500. It's obvious Utah has stepped up in competition. Look at
TCU. Same scenario. I don't think that diminishes the coaches record.
People thinking Utah was going to take over the PAC 12 were being somewhat
naive. The Utes haven't had solid QB play in a while. I don't think
Whit's seat is hot, but if they are still going 6-6 in Wilson's senior
year, then I expect the temp to be extremely warm. Can't really
take out a full year and several opponents for a solid statistical analysis. Ask
Oregon State about playing FCS schools and whether or not they still have to
show up and play (lost 2 FCS games in the last couple of years). Many SEC
schools pad 33% of their schedule against cupcakes at the beginning of the year.
The games still count and help the teams climb the rankings because they are an
SEC team with a 5-0 record at the start of the year.
"Phibbs was raised in Sandy, Utah where he graduated from Alta High in 2008
and is a current senior at the University of Utah."This is
hardly an article from a BYU homer people. Do your homework. For the most part
he is just listing statistics. It is a touch harsh though. I normally do not
post but I am continually amazed at how many clueless sports fans (for both
teams) are out there. Think before you post, try to have a clue, and show a
little respect for both coaches who are by any standard great representatives
for their schools, the state of Utah and the coaching profession.
Doesn't that mean 40% are against winning teams? Unfortunately, BYU is one
of the winning programs on that resume. Too bad, the U is part of the 60%.
Chris B"Tell me, would you rather have..."I'd rather have EIGHTEEN Top 25 finishes in the last 37 seasons, NINE Top
15 finishes, FOUR Top 10 finishes, and a National Championship, over Utah's
pathetic FIVE lifetime AP Top 25 finishes, ANY DAY!The Utes have
never finished higher than #4 in the Coaches poll, the official final poll for
the BCS, and the Utes have never finished higher than #6 in the final BCS
standings.BYU's Best - #1 AP, #1 CoachesUtah's Best
- #2 AP, #4 CoachesUtah's best pales in comparison to
Fifty percent chance of the utes making a bowl this year.How will
they do it next year without a Cougar gift?
True blue, please also let us know their head to head record. Thanks in
The problem for some fans JohnInSLC is that Bronco hasn't had any perfect
storm seasons and inexplicable losses to teams like Virginia to derail big-time
hopes. I actually like both coaches but fair is fair. The 2008 season did
happen and Whittingham was in charge. Plus, winning the last four games vs. BYU
has to count for something. I guess you forgot that stat.
This article made me wonder, "What percentage of Coach Mendenhall's
wins came against losing teams?"I counted them up. Unless I
made a mistake, that answer is, "58%."Yeah, we should make a
big deal about the huge difference in those percentages.....
If I were a ute fan, I would have more patience with Kyle Whittingham if I saw
progress being made. This is the third year in the PAC12, and fourth year
recruiting to the PAC12 (interestingly shaping up to be Utah's worst
recruiting year since joining the league). First year, 4-5 in the PAC, second
year 3-6, this year 1-4 (and 2-7 is a real possibility). I get that the PAC12 is
tougher and will take patience, but Utah is digressing, not progressing. When you do the same thing and get the same result (or worse result)
it's time to change...or go insane expecting a different result. Hmm, now
that explains a lot about CB.
Once again Ute fans are having a serious identity crisis. On the one hand, they
say that BYU is behind them, that BYU is nothing more than a bad memory and that
it is time to find a better, higher caliber rival to compete with year in and
year out.But while they search for this new rival and claim that BYU
is small potatoes, they still make their presence known, day after day on
stories like this."Utah is better than BYU""Kyle is better than Bronco"Hey Ute fans, if BYU is as
terrible and pathetic as you say they are, what does it say about your team when
the only team you compare them to is BYU?If the Utah Utes, with its
big, amazing membership in the PAC 12 is such a high profile, nationally
recognized powerhouse now, why aren't you going on other PAC 12 school fan
sites and comparing yourselves to those teams?
This is what we have been saying for years now. The record will continue to
head southward and I can only see one more win in fellow bottom-dweller
Colorado. It guess it will be a pillow fight for the basement.
Clark,I have an answer. It is because they CAN'T compare to any pac
team in any major sport. Even WSU has a program heading in the right direction.
Colorado will be the new standard for the utes.
"In 2005, Georgia Tech lost three of its last four games. In 2006, Tulsa
lost four of its last five games. In 2009, California beat one ranked team all
year and lost four games by a combined score of 30-145." -- DN------------Wrong, Georgia Tech came in winning 4 of their last 6
games, lost to 7-5 VT (7-5) and at home against #10 Georgia (10-3). That is why
they were ranked AP #23.Utah (6-6) came in losing 4 of last 7 games
but then destroyed GT 38-10.We didn't play Tulsa in 2006 we
played them in 2007 when they came in on a 4 game winning streak.In
2009, Utah came in losing 2 of the last 3. Cal (8-4) had with ONE horrible loss
at 5-7 Washington other loses were to OrgSt (8-5), #22 USC (9-4), #11
@Oregon(10-3). BYU got exposed at home by 7-5 FSU and TCU so what?Cougar Nation must be really desperate, if you can't beat 'em try
make up stats to get them fired?
How about the only stat that matters...head to head. Kyle!
My bad, we did beat 2006 Tulsa (8-5) who came in losing 3 of last 4.But then again in 2007 we beat Navy (8-5) who came in winning 4 straight.The fact is Tulsa was a better team, they played a tougher schedule than
Whittingham’s 7-1 bowl record also manifests the same trend. Other than
the Sugar Bowl win over Alabama, each opponent entered downtrodden.-------------Both BYU and Utah played 4 AP top 30 teams:2005: Utah 38 GTech 10 (#24 - unranked) ... Utah had lost 4 of 7, GT had won 4
of 62008: Utah 31 Bama 17 (#4 - #6)2010: Utah 3 Boise 26 (#10 -
#9)2011: Utah 30 GTech 27 (#30 - unranked) ... GT finished 2-4 vs teams
combined 48-31 (60 WP)2005: BYU 28 Cal 35 (#31 - #25) ... BYU won 5
of last 7, Cal lost 4 of last 62009: BYU 44 OSU 20 (#16 - #27) 2011:
BYU 24 Tulsa 21 (#34 - unranked)2012: BYU 23 SDSU 3 (#30 - unranked) ...
SDSU finished 6-0 vs teams 34-42 (44 WP)Look similar, both are 3-1,
the difference we lost to a top 10 team and beat a top 10 team.
Didn't read the article, went straight to comment. This is an article about
utah right? Why is there any mention of BYU by anyone?
Hippo,YOU are trolling on a Utah article. YOU are having the
identity crisis - talking trash at the team that POUNDED BYU in an attempt to
make yourself feel better about your team. Its YOU trying to talk trash at fans
of a team that wish your team was better than. Utah is better; it was proved
again on the field.
Sparkley Briefs,"talking trash at the team that POUNDED
BYU"Why are you even still talking about 2010? Who cares? If
you're calling this year's one possession victory by Utah a pounding,
then I guess we can say that Utah got pounded by Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona,
and USC. There is no "we hung with them" when you get POUNDED. Can't wait until after Saturday when Utah get's to experience a
similar POUNDING they got last year from ASU. Go Devils!
Hey Utes, if you want to defend your coach who can't win in the Pac-12 - be
I love it. Whit is a BYU grad, and he still bleeds blue.
Bronco is a much better coach and it shows by overall record during each of
their 8 years. Whit had one fluke season that has saved his job to this point.
Whit does have a better head to head record but that is because utah treats the
rivalry game like a bowl game and obviously is not to concerned with the rest of
his season after BYU where as bronco treats it like a game and does a tremendous
job throughout an entire season.
UteMiguelhead-to-head record is MEANINGLESS on a national scale------------"Utah football: 60% of Kyle
Whittingham's wins come against losing teams"It's far
worse than that for Kyle in the PAC 12: 16 of Utah's 17 PAC 12 wins (94%)
have come against conference foes with losing records.Kyle has had
more losses (2) to PAC 12 teams with losing records, than he's had wins (1)
versus conference foes with winning records.
What difference does this make---Hillary Clinton 2013, on why BYU is the better
UteologyDespite your "bowl" spin,BYU finished in
the AP Top 25 FOUR straight times (2006 to 2009), while Kyle only managed to
crack the AP TWICE (2008 and 2009).If Kyle's bowl wins were
really as impressive as you pretend they were, why did the pollsters completely
ignore the Utes in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011?
CougarSunDevilSparkley Briefs is probably still living with the
delusion that Utah is better than ASU, even though ASU has OWNED Utah forever -
NINE straight wins, 18 of 24 overall, including two crushing defeats, 14-35 and
7-37, since Utah joined the PAC 12.Utah has only beaten ONE PAC 12
team with a winning record in almost three full seasons.ASU has
beaten FIVE such PAC 12 teams in the last three seasons, including two this
season - USC(10-2), Utah(8-5), Arizona(8-5), USC(6-3), and Washington(5-3).Utah is WINLESS versus Arizona State since the Sun Devils joined the PAC
10 in 1978.How many winning conference seasons the Utes have had
since joining the conference?btw, that 10-2 USC team that ASU
dominated 43-22 in 2011...finished 6th in the final AP poll.
It is a lot easier to beat bad teams than good team... Is this supposed to be
insightful?To have any value you need to run this same analysis for
a number (or all) Division I Coaches.BYU fans and BYU shills (and
let's face it the DNews sports desk are BYU shills) will spend thousands of
words trying to cover up a few numbers.4 in row9 of the last
1114 of last 2154-31-4 all time.
talkinsports"If Kyle's bowl wins were really as impressive
as you pretend they were, why did the pollsters completely ignore the Utes in
2005, 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011?"Uteology likes to delve into
the minutia and pretend that the elephant's tail represents a true picture
of what the entire elephant looks like. Beating BYU or winning a
bowl game represents the end-all-be-all of an entire season. Forget
that Utah also lost 4 or 5 games to teams like Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV,
Colorado State, and Colorado along the way, and just pretend that the rest of
the country is as enamored as Ute Nation is with the Utes beating the #56 team
in the country in a bowl.
Cougsndawgs raises what should be a troubling point. Not only is the current
recruiting class shaping up to be sub-par, but after 4 years of "PAC12
recruiting", the Utes' QB situation is STILL a mess, the RB
'committee' is not producing as expected, the WR position is thin and
even Dres Anderson has been somewhat of a non-factor is recent games, lack of
depth at the TE position has been exposed after a couple of injuries, and the
DBs (a traditional strong point for Whittingham D's) have been shaky at
best (HOW many picks have they come up with this season?). This isn't the
trajectory on which PAC12 affiliation was supposed to place the Utes -- it just
doesn't bode well....
Because of proximity and history, the Utah and BYU programs continue to be
connected at the hip. Over the last 25 years, the two teams are very much alike,
whether most fans in either camp want to admit it.I wonder whether
there will be a similar article coming out of the Deseret News in the next few
days about Bronco Mendenhall. But in case that doesn't happen, here are
some stats that might be of interest:Mendenhall: 80 wins, 31
losses. 5-2 in bowls. 3-6 vs. Utah. 3-16 vs. teams that finished in the top
25, 2-9 since 2008. 4 top 25 finishes (16, 14, 25, 12). 58% of wins came
against sub-500 teams. Whittingham: 75 wins, 36 losses. 7-1 in
bowls. 6-3 vs. BYU. 6-14 vs. teams that finished in the top 25, 1-9 after
2008. 2 top 25 finishes (2, 18). Played a tougher SOS than BYU 6 in 9 years,
and in 5 of the last 6 years. 60% of wins came against sub 500 teams.I hope both teams finish their seasons strong, especially the Utes!
tdlawtonAs usual, it's all about BYU when it comes to Utah.Here's a few numbers you left out (last 50 Years - the modern
era):Head-to-headBYU 29 Utah 21AP Top 25BYU
17 Utah 5National ChampionshipsBYU 1 Utah 0Heisman
TrophiesBYU 1 Utah 0National College Football Hall of Fame
PlayersBYU 6 Utah 0Conference ChampionshipsBYU 23 Utah
6Bowl AppearancesBYU 31 Utah 1611+ Win SeasonsBYU 11 Utah 210+ Win SeasonsBYU 16 Utah 6Overall
RecordBYU 402-197-4 (67%)Utah 314-255-4 (55%)BYU has
DOMINATED U for the last half-century; it's not even close!
To objectively assess the differences between Bronco's and whitt's
career you need to use the period BEFORE Utah entered the PAC 12. After that
period it could be argued you are comparing apples and oranges. This year for
example, outside Utah, BYU will really only be playing 2-3 quality opponents,
while Utah will be playing 10. Big difference.
From a decided Cougar fan ...... this is one article that definitely didn't
need to be written and does little to forward anything of worth.I
hope the Utes continue to march forward and strengthen their program, the Y
continues their improvement, and that the DesNews is a little more selective on
what articles they choose to print.
Bronco only beets good teams. look at his records against top teams and
you'll see Broncos wins are against the best.Most coaches only have
winning games against good teams to this shows Whit can't coach good. if he
only beats teams that loose.
Utahute72"This year for example, outside Utah, BYU will really
only be playing 2-3 quality opponents, while Utah will be playing 10. Big
difference."LOL at the crimson-bubbled, delusion that exists on
the hill.BYU's 2013 SOS is ranked #21; that's 20 places
HIGHER than any schedule Utah had ever played prior to this year. Utah's
schedules for 2011 and 2012 were ranked #49 and #41.btw,
Bronco's teams finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR times, prior to the
Independent/PAC era; Kyle's teams only managed TWO AP Top 25 finishes.
"Excluding 2008, Whittingham-coached teams have a 16-16 record in games
entering the fourth quarter separated by one possession""Omitting 2008, he’s 20-28 and subtracting bowl games further,
he's 14-27 (31 percent)."-----------ARE YOU KIDDING
ME? Omitting facts that weaken your point in order to strengthen your
point???If you want to write an article about Kyle Whittingham
struggling in the PAC-12, have at it. But let's don't leave out
Kyle's best so that his worst looks worse so that your point appears
This article is not the best comparison. It is the reverse of the old joke,
"Well other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play."I am a
BYU fan, but like all the local teams. The author uses faulty logic and more
faulty statistics to make an excellent coach look bad. Take away their best
season, and all the bowl games? Those are only the most important games played
by any school in the State. This must be a slow news week.."There are three types of lies: Lies, (darn) lies, and statistics" -
Mark Twain(Good luck Utah.)Go Cougs!
Only a BYU fan would start a comment with the words "head to head results
are MEANINGLESS". It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
UteMiguel"Only a BYU fan would start a comment with the words
"head to head results are MEANINGLESS"."Only a Utah fan
would intentionally ignore the pertinent qualifier "head-to-head record is
meaningless ON A NATIONAL SCALE"Which team was BETTER in 2012,
the team that won the head-to-head between Alabama and Texas A&M, or the
team that won the undisputed NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, garnering EVERY first-place
vote in the AP and Coaches polls?Kyle is 6-3 versus Bronco
head-to-head.Bronco is 5-3 (soon to be 6-3) in overall record and
RANKING.Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4)?Was
Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5)?Is Utah(4-4) better than
Stanford((7-1)?If Utah is better, why is Stanford ranked #5 BCS, #6
AP, and #6 Coaches,while Utah is ranked #45 BCS, and didn't receive a
single vote in the AP or Coaches polls?Please explain why
that's so funny.
chris b"Simply being in the top 25 isn't all that
impressive, 25 teams do it ever year."If finishing in the AP Top
25 is such a meaningless, mediocre achievement, why haven't the Utes have
only been able to accomplish this "meaningless, mediocre achievement"
more than FIVE times in their entire history?
@talkinsportsIf Kyle's bowl wins were really as impressive as
you pretend they were, why did the pollsters completely ignore the Utes in 2005,
2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011?--------------Because those
Ute teams were mediocre at best, when did I claim they were great Ute teams?
Even the 2010 team that finished #26 AP and #23 Coaches was a
disappointing team, losing to the only 3 teams that matter that year (TCU, ND,
Boise).That still doesn't take away from the fact that they
were good bowl wins, over teams that were as good or better.
@majmajor"...I am a BYU fan, but like all the local teams. The
author uses faulty logic and more faulty statistics to make an excellent coach
look bad...".Well the authors name is Trevor Phibbs.
DN,bronco and byu have similar stats but if you wrote the same
article about byu, you would spin it as fluff. Why? I understand all the byu
fluff articles but why so much negative spin on the Utes?Are you guys
still mad because Kyle refused the byu job?
What is the agenda against Coach Whitt? He never says anything negative about
any team or player or coach. He tells is like it is in complete sentences. He
takes full responsibility for every loss, explains what went wrong without using
excuses. Playing in the MWC meant that you had to play many games
against subpar records, big deal. I guess his decision to stay on
the hill vs. going around the point still stings to some.Nothing to
see here, move along.
@TroyTownWas UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4)?Was
Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5)?Is Utah(4-4) better than
Stanford((7-1)?If Utah is better, why is Stanford ranked #5 BCS, #6
AP, and #6 Coaches---------These comparisons are meaningless.
They would be meaningful if UNLV and Colorado had beaten Utah 4 in a row, and
Utah had beaten Stanford 4 years in a row, and 5 out of the last 6. Since that
is not the case, comparing UNLV, Colorado, and Stanford to Utah is meaningless.
One game here and there is meaningless. 4 in a row, and 5 out of the
last 6 is completely different.
Uteology"That still doesn't take away from the fact that
they were good bowl wins, over teams that were as good or better."It also solidifies the logical conclusion that one win, no matter how
impressive, does not a season make.Overall, Bronco's teams have
been better than Kyle's teams in 5 of the 8 previous seasons.What makes one mediocre team beating another mediocre team more meaningful
just because it happened in a bowl?What makes Utah's 30-27 OT
win versus #56 Georgia Tech(8-5) in El Paso in 2011 more impressive than
BYU's 41-17 win at #46 Georgia Tech(7-7) in 2012?The Yellow
Jackets that barely lost to the Utes in the Sun Bowl in 2011, stomped the
Trojans 21-7 in the Sun Bowl in 2012.Of the two, BYU's win over
Georgia Tech was obviously much more impressive than Utah's.
81Ute"Playing in the MWC meant that you had to play many games
against subpar records, big deal."Kyle also lost to many of
those teams with subpar records in the MWC - Wyoming, CSU, UNLV and New Mexico -
just as he's doing in the PAC, see Colorado.
Fluff piece:"BYU football's top-10 biggest road wins in
school history""Let's hope the mantle of McMahon descends on
Taysom Hill against Wisconsin"Hard core journalism:"Utah football: 60% of Kyle Whittingham's wins come against losing
teams""Commentary: Utes will come short of a bowl game, and the
program will regress"We understand BYU football is 7 plays from
being 21-0 while Utah has been struggling since leaving the MWC. But to
hasn't done diddly then claim Georgia Tech and Cal were bad teams is just
spin.* Georgia Tech did not lose 3 of last 4, they won 2 of last
4:Wake Forest (4-7) 30-17 W@ Virginia (7-5) 27-17 L@Miami #17 (9-3) 14-10 WGeorgia #10 (10-3) 7-14 LThey won 4
of last 6 and also beat #14 Auburn 23-14. Utah 38 #23 Georgia
Tech 10* Cal came in winning 5 of 7 and were ranked #19 in week 14
before losing to a bad team at Washington.
I love how an article on Kyle becomes the same old BYU / Utah bashing session,
with selective facts being regurgitated by the same posters.We are
lucky to have two solid coaches within 45 minutes of each other.Is
Kyle going to be able to make the Utes competative in the PAC? Even with the
help of Chow and Ericson (and Co-BJ), that's the question.Utah
fans might just need to get over the man-crush and decide if they want to keep
comparing him to Bronco to feel good, or get competative in the PAC. May need to
let go of the past and look to the future, because reality tells us the future,
at this point does not look too bright. Utes are squandering an opportunity to
get out of the basement.
@scottSince overtime was instantiated, every game produces a team the
loases and a team that wins; zero sum (look it up). Every coach/team
loses games that leave people scratching their heads, it is the nature of the
beast. The Utes must have something going for them they were part of an
expansion of PAC, the first in over 30 years and Coach Whitt had much to do with
Utes Fan"These comparisons are meaningless. They would be
meaningful if UNLV and Colorado had beaten Utah 4 in a row"Since
when does a win in the previous season have any bearing whatsoever on the
Chris seemed particularly upset by this article given how quickly and frequently
he responded. That alone makes the article worthwhile. More, please, DN!And, please, own it, Chris. Meaning, just admit that you view every
game, every statistic, every article, and every utterance regarding college
sports from the standpoint of "how can I spin this to bash BYU?" You act
like you're driven by pure logic and information.To that, I
respond by speaking your language: "LOL!"
81Ute"Since overtime was instantiated [sic], every game produces
a team the loases [sic] and a team that wins; zero sum (look it up)."huh? that didn't even make any sense.The Utes were
included in the PAC expansion because the Utes had great research, an untapped
television market near the PAC footprint, weren't a private, religious
school, and had a serviceable football program - it had NOTHING to do with the
quality of Utah's flash-in-the-pan football program that had never won a
single national team or player award and only had five lifetime AP Top 25
finishes.btw, if rankings are meaningless, why do Utah fans continue
to beat their chests about all of the "ranked" teams Utah beat in 2008?
How do we know that Alabama was really any good if Crimson Tide lost to a
non-power conference team that wasn't even ranked the previous season?
@UtahUte72Utah and BYU face very similar schedules in the number of
quality opponents faced this year, though Utah has faced a slightly tougher
schedule to date. The difference will be who will have more quality wins at the
end of the season than the other team.Here is the list of wins in
order of strength. Both teams need to win MORE.1 Utah over #5
Stanford2 BYU over #15 Texas3 Utah over @BYU4 BYU over
undefeated @Houston5 BYU over Boise State6 BYU over USU7 BYU
over Georgia Tech8 Utah over USU9 BYU over MTS10 Utah over
@Utah Ute 72I definitely think that Utah has the tougher schedule. I will
admit it and they have been respectable when it comes to that.But BYU only
playing 2-3 quality games? Who are the quality games?Texas, Notre Dame,
and Wisconsin? Utah is no longer a quality game?BYU has on their schedule
9 (possibly 10 if Utah gets a bowl bid) bowl teams on their schedule. To many
quality teams make bowls, good teams get a ranking, and great teams are in the
top 10 or make BCS bowls.BYU has one of the toughest schedules in the
nation. Utah's is better but to say that they are only playing 2-3 quality
games sure makes the Utes look bad because they are on the lower end (rankings
wise) of BYU's schedule.Have a good day.
Really, really, really, really tired of D-News negative articles against Utah.
Instead of looking at an OT loss to nationally ranked Oregon State, a 7 point
loss to nationally ranked UCLA, a win over top 5 Stanford, 4th year in a row win
over BYU, the focus is on take aways and turnovers and wins against losing
teams. Meanwhile the same day is the special bond between Bronco and Anderson
and BYU top 10 biggest wins in HISTORY. No wonder D-News won an EPPY award.
Forcing Utah fans to defend themselves while stroking BYU fans into a frenzy of
self importance while playing inferior teams will cause a huge response. Write
enough comments about your win - loss records even though you aren't
playing in the top conference in the nation and you will begin to believe
you're a national contender. Way to feed the frenzy D-News, cheap, unfair,
biased, but hey- effective. Oh and you encourage a civil dialogue. Right!.
@scottYou are not comparing common teams, every years team is different.
@Truth MachineSorry about that fat finger on loses.Who said
anything about rankings?
Just smiling, if you want to see the scales tipped in the opposite direction go
on over to the Trib. You can find all the pro-Ute and anti-BYU stuff you want
there.The main difference between here and there is they allow
commenters to post equally while here a comment gets denied as "off topic or
disruptive" even though it's a direct quote of a previously approved
comment. Your beef is with the DNews' civil dialogue policy. Mine is with
the blatantly inconsistent screening of comments.99 out of every 100
comments from Chris B could easily be tagged 'disruptive', Yet they
get approved, in droves, every day of the week.
This article, written by an actual utah student and homer, has gotten all of the
other utah "fans" in complete meltdown mode. Very funny stuff.LOL!
I for one like and admire Coach Whittingham for the absolute class act he
presents week in and week out as a Coach. Any thinking person had to realize
that entering the PAC-12 from the Mountain West would be a rough road. By my
estimation if Utah should for some reason lose their minds and drop Whit, I
predict they will continue to struggle and perhaps prolong the misery. In the
interest of full disclosure, I am a BYU fan but I have immense respect for Coach
Whittingham. I hope to see him at the Utah helm as long as he wants to be there.
Go Coach Whit.
Meaningless statistics without context. Compare him to all the coaches in the
PAC, or to BYU, USU and Boise. Better still, do a multi-varient analysis, and
give us the R2. Factor in other inputs, like recruiting stars. Does he do
better or worse than coaches with similar talent? Win-Loss isn't apples to
apples. Comparing the record of opponents who played a BCS schedule against the
W/L of a team with a MAC schedule. Even comparing W/L against BCS schools
isn't apple to apples. W/L against the Big East? That isn't even as
meaningful as a good W/L in the MWC. W/L against the bottom feeders of the BCS
isn't even an apples to apples "BCS" comparison. Someone in the
SEC has to play both great and pathetic teams. (All of the Whosit State teams
the SEC teams play AT HOME. (8 home games each).
Nope! Utah fans keep whit. This BYU fan is extremely satisfied with Bronco, and
I'm sure I speak for the majority of the BYU nation.
When byu has the guts to schedule a real/legitimate back-to-back-to-back,
week-in, week-out grind of a schedule, can we then compare records. Not to
mention, they lose to us, annually, as well.I wouldn't trade
our SOS as part of our proud PAC-12 membership for anything whatsoever, mind
you, as we now play against primarily Power Conference. schools and in doing so
we'll always have the potential for the significantly greater reward....Not
to mention that, being the genuine competitors we are, we more than welcome this
opportunity and its inherent-challenges....It's the optimal method in
striving for self-improvement.The sign of cowardice is to choose the
easier, softer way, ripe with carefully placed bye-weeks/weak-competition in
between the tougher games for fear of failure/being exposed for the fraudulent
existence they live,....The end-goal is to proclaim superiority over others
who've unequivocally proven entirely 100% otherwise.The U/tcu
are transitioning upward these days while we expectantly take our
lumps....byu's still transitioning into Independence, right along w/fellow
newcomers/longtime opponents, Idaho/NMSU, as well as Old dominion.
Regarding Coach KW--I think you have to give Utah at least four
seasons in the Pac-12 -- a full class cycle -- before you can start passing
judgment on Whittingham. Remember, not only are they adjusting to a higher level
of play every week, but they need a grace period to re-work how they operate
their program. Utah is seeing television money never thought possible in the
Mountain West, and part of the learning curve is figuring out the proper way to
appropriate that funding. Hiring Dennis Erickson is a great start -- a move they
never would have been able to make financially in a non-AQ conference. Nor would
a non-AQ team be able to attract a big-name coach like Erickson to be a
coordinator. Let the money sink in, let the new facilities work their magic on
recruits and if Utah has a four- or five-year bowl drought, then you can open up
discussions. But Whittingham -- who I believe to be an outstanding coach --
should be sitting on ice for now.
Pretty spot on with everything with maybe one exception, the Alabama team they
faced in the 2009 Sugar Bowl was also a downtrodden team. They had spent most of
the year ranked #1 and had expected all year to play in the BCS title game only
to lose in the SEC CCG to Florida. They were an emotionally devastated,
disconsolate and downtrodden team when they played the Utes in the Sugar Bowl
and did not get up for that game. Their play in that game showed that,
especially their play in the 1st quarter.This stuff should come as
no surprise to anyone. Kyle's coaching style employs lots of gimmicks,
tricks and emotion. In the past they could get away with it because they only
had 2-3 games spread out over the season that they had to get up for, the rest
of the schedule were MWC patsies like UNLV, Wyoming, etc. He and the
Utes got a rude awakening when they found out they can't fool Pac12 teams
w/tricks week in and week out or rely on over-hyped emotions to give them an
edge in every game. It's simply unsustainable.
I think Kyle's over-reliance on getting his team over-charged emotionally
to win big games only to suffer letdowns after is exemplified in his Pac12
conference record in the month following the BYU game now that it's no
longer played the last week of the season. He is 1-11 in conference play in the
month following the BYU game (the lone win this season when they exposed an
overrated Stanford team and caught them napping). Utah's play
in those games are characteristically filled with silly mistakes, sloppy play,
serious lack of energy on defense, dumb penalties and lots of turnovers. Its
quite a turnabout with the way they get fired up to play BYU and are sharp with
their execution and play with tons of emotional energy. It seems to leave them
very flat afterwards for weeks and isn't until they get into November
before they get it together again and finish strong. No wonder Kyle was so
desperate to stop playing BYU early in the season. It exposes his deficiencies
as a Head Coach. This year (for the 3rd year in a row in the Pac12) is no
@UteMiguel"True blue, please also let us know their head to head
record. Thanks in advance."Mig,Isn't that a big part
of Kyle's problem as a HC? He appears to have his priorities a little mixed
up and gets his teams thoroughly prepared to play BYU every year then goes flat
and his teams look lethargic and unprepared in the weeks after. For his own sake
he needs to treat the rivalry game as just another game and place way more
emphasis with his game prep on conference games yet the proof is in the pudding.
He makes BYU his bowl game every year and now it's biting him in the
rear.@TrueBluenice breakdown of stats, of your whole
list Chris B nitpicked one thing and ignored the mountain of evidence.
@azuteWhy is it that utah has such a higly ranked SOS but oregon and
stanford do not? I'll tell you why, when you are a bottom feeder in a
conference like the pac12 some of the teams you play are very good and highly
ranked, teams like oregon. But when you are a top team in a conference like the
pac12 most of the teams you play, teams like utah, are very poor and so your sos
is much weaker than the sos of the bottom feeders that play you. utah hurts
their sos.Of course scheduling ooc can affect your sos as well and
in utah's case having BYU and usu on its ooc schedule has helped raise it
to a very high level. Alternately utah has been pretty much neutral to
usu's ooc and has been a detriment to BYU's ooc despite utah beating
them. You post on here as if you are knowledgable and some sort of
authority but it is really apparent by your posts that you don't know some
really basic stuff.
Ahahahahaha....this article was the best thing I have read all day. I loved it!
Thanks Trevor for writing the article and DNews for publishing it. You have
put a smile on my face.
@BigCougar"Alabama team they faced in the 2009 Sugar Bowl was
also a downtrodden team."-------------Nonsense. Utah took
advantage of the only weakness that Alabama team had: using an up-tempo offense
that put 21 up on them early and Alabama could not come back from that. If
Alabama was a "downtrodden team", then Texas was a "downtrodden
team" this year and BYU's victory over them is not impressive. You
can't have your Cougar cake and eat it too."He makes BYU
his bowl game every year and now it's biting him in the rear."------------Nonsense again. It was BYU players who said that playing
Utah this year was their "Super Bowl". And yet, Kyle really doesn't
want to play BYU, so now they are taking a 2-year break - definitely NOT
Kyle's bowl game."No wonder Kyle was so desperate to stop
playing BYU early in the season. It exposes his deficiencies as a Head
Coach."------------After beating a team 4 in a row, and 5 out of
6, you think that exposes "deficiencies". REALLY??? Utah experienced
some injuries after BYU, and THAT is the reason for struggles.
DucksterKudos to your research. Good to see you're still on the
up and up on all things Utah Utes. That being said, this article holds little to
no significance whatsoever. Like the poster who referenced Mark Twain -
"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."I suppose
statistics may help "fans" who are currently 0-4 against their bitter
rivals, sleep a little more soundly at night.
98.9% of people outside Utah & Idaho believe "YBU" is a division II
program. Just as your star running back thought. LOL!!!
@ slcjimmyWhere are you getting your numbers from?I would like to
see plausible intelligent evidence.
How pathetic! No reason to deny my previous retort towards "BeSmart" Oh
that's right it was based both on logic & facts!
slcjimmyLogic I do not see the logic in your stat.Fact? I am asking
you where you got the facts from.No need to be persnickety just looking
for the research for your argument
2 percent of the U.S. population is LDS. My guess they know BYU is Div 1.Then all of the former MWC schools fan bases know.Many other followers
of fan bases know.I do not see the logic and fact in your argument.
This same concept was written about Bronco before the season so don't get
crazy Utah/BYU fans.The article states the record. Nothing more nothing less.
You can take it any way you want and spin it in multiple ways, but is still only
a reference piece that calls for thoughts by the readers (mission accomplished
by looks of this board). The real concern is that both Utah and BYU fans are way
too defensive of any perceived slight. What Utah/BYU supporters have to do is
shake yourselves and take a close look at both teams. They are close to being
great but too much inconsistency from both of them relegates them to the #20-#40
ranking for overall programs nationwide. Really good by most standards but not
elite. Most rational fans will look at both football teams and realize the
shortcomings and hope for more. Don't shoot the messenger, the author is
only pointing to the record. The real key will be those fan bases who can
analyze and judge their own teams and call out faults and praise qualities.
Otherwise you are written off by the masses as a myopic fool.
Stat of the Day:BYU football in the MWC: 70.13% of Bronco
Mendenhall's wins come against losing teams
BYU football: 64.36% of Bronco Mendenhall's wins come against losing
teams* Includes all wins over D2 teams, all are counted as winning
teams* Includes all wins this year, all are assumed to be winning teams
@BigCougarPretty spot on with everything with maybe one exception,
the Alabama team they faced in the 2009 Sugar Bowl was also a downtrodden team.
They had spent most of the year ranked #1 and had expected all year
to play in the BCS title game only to lose in the SEC CCG to Florida. They were an emotionally devastated, disconsolate and downtrodden team when
they played the Utes in the Sugar Bowl and did not get up for that game. Their play in that game showed that, especially their play in the 1st
quarter.------------Nice spin job, do you work for
Fox?Are you also willing to go on record and claim that AP #16
Oregon State, your best bowl victory since 1996, was also "emotionally
devastated, disconsolate, and downtrodden" after losing the Civil War and
the Rose Bowl berth three weeks prior to BYU dismantling them in Vegas?
My bad, my data was off.Here's the data for comparison,
Bronco's record excluding this year:103 Games: 74 wins and 29
loses (72%)* 28 wins against winning teams (including 3 D2 teams)* 38% of the total wins were against winning teams* 46 wins
against losing teams (including 2 D2 teams)* 62% of the total wins were
against losing teamsThe SOS... the 103 teams had a combine win-loss
record of 648-635 (50.5%).I think that puts things in
@Big Cougar"2009 Sugar Bowl was also a downtrodden team. They had spent most of the year ranked #1 and had expected all year to
play in the BCS title game only to lose in the SEC CCG to Florida. They were an emotionally devastated, disconsolate and downtrodden team when
they played the Utes in the Sugar Bowl and did not get up for that game.
"Man, you'd think Nick Saban could get his team up for a
Championship game with all that time to prepare. I mean, they said they were up
for the game. They looked like they were up for the game. They battled back from
21 down to almost tie things up before Utah pulled away. Good thing we have
expert cougar fans here who aren't jealous at all, to set the record
@ Chris B - Salt Lake City, UT - "True Blue, Simply being in the top 25
isn't all that impressive, 25 teams do it ever year."Puh-leeeeease.Chris B, at least TRY to be a tiny bit objective.It isn't just "being" in the Top 25 at the end of the year,
it's being in the top 25 at the end of the year somewhat CONSISTENTLY that
matters.Utah has done it twice in the Whittingham era.BYU has done it four times in the (same) Mendenhall era.Now, you
tell me, which one is CONSISTENTLY a better team?
UteologyNo matter how much you slice and dice stats to help you
sleep at night, it will never change the fact that Bronco's teams have been
ranked higher than Kyle's teams 5 of the last 8 seasons, soon to be 6 of
the last 9.
LonestarRunnerSalt Lake City, UTUteologyNo matter
how much you slice and dice stats to help you sleep at night, it will never
change the fact that Bronco's teams have been ranked higher than
Kyle's teams 5 of the last 8 seasons, soon to be 6 of the last 9.-------------I could care less where BYU is ranked by beating
cupcakes. I love that fact that BYU can't compete with Utah on the
field.No matter how much you cry about where the judges rank your
team the FACT still remains we OWN you.I understand we lack PAC-12
talent and depth. I also understand that we OWN teams like BYU: 33-6 in the
MWC and 8-1 since joining the PAC-12.I can live with that.
"I could care less where BYU is ranked by beating cupcakes. I love that fact
that BYU can't compete with Utah on the field."Amen,
Uteology! I agree completely.Go Utes!
Uteology"I could care less where BYU is ranked by beating
cupcakes."Don't kid yourself; you care immensely that no
matter how many ways you come up with to slice and dice statistics to help you
sleep at night, at the end of the day, the rest of the country still considers
BYU to be BETTER than U. Despite Utah's head-to-head win in
September:Current BCS Rankings#27 BYU(6-2)#45
Utah(4-4)Chances of BYU finishing in the final Top 25 - decentChances of Utah finishing in the final Top 25 - NONE
@ Chris B.:You said it well. Here's your direct quote, which
was obviously meant as another obsession driven dig at BYU:"Simply
being in the top 25 isn't all that impressive, 25 teams do it every
year."And yet the Utes seldom ever do it... and haven't
done so in a number of years. That's truly is not so impressive. And what's truly interesting to see how defensive certain fans (Chris B,
Uncle Rico, JohnInSLC, azute and a few other higher emotion Ute fans) get when
presented with Ute facts not so flattering. And even more-so when they keep
trying to make justification comparisons to BYU. It seems that the anti-BYU
obsession must be getting somewhat contagious on the hill. @
UteMiguel:Picking a very small number of statistics and then
applying them out of context actually proves nothing at all. Except for maybe
that you would benefit greatly from taking a Statistical Analysis class next
semester. Obtaining a greater understanding of applied numbers is always a
positive thing. I wish you well with that.
@ Samurai Jake:Interesting, and yet somewhat sad how you, Uteology
and slcjimmy use every limited statistic you can find against BYU (usually taken
out of context) all season long, but when an article comes out with a complete
statistical analysis exposoing Utah's coach and team performance, you
suddenly contend that statistics mean nothing. You literally make me laugh at
the irony and hypocrisy. The 4-0 record Utah has against BYU in the
last 4 years (1-3 in the preceding 4 years) is the only card left on the table
for Utah fans to play. Everything else has slowly slipped away. And now
desperate Ute fans are striking out at BYU with a lot of defensiveness and
apparent jealousy. Taking full seasons into consideration and not
just a single game each year, BYU has finished ranked in the nation's top
25 3 of the last 4 years. Utah... 0-4. That telling stat should mean more to
Ute fans than their record with just one team... BYU. Since it obviously
doesn't, it does make those fans appear truly obsessed with BYU... a real
(though unintended) compliment to BYU and their fans.
@ Uteology:As of when I'm writing this, you have posted 5 of
the last 8 comments to this article. And every single one of them mentions BYU
and makes comparisons to them. That is unquestionably and undoubtedly an
obsession... perhaps even to the level of Chris B. is that really
the only way you can try to rationalize how Utah is currently doing? Overall,
it's quite a compliment to BYU that comparing to them seems to be the only
way for you to define U. Ever considered sports counseling? Just a thought.
TatorsI'm sure you mean well. But seriously, you don't
need to try so hard.As a self-reflection, honestly, how defensive
have you been every single time your cougers have lost to my Utes for the past
four years in a row? It's truly interesting to see how far you will
stretch to try and prove that your cougers are somehow better than my Utes,
despite their inability to actually beat them on the field.0-4 must
be a hard pill to swallow, I get it. But no need to get so defensive when
presented with that not so flattering Coug fact. They might win again,
TatorsHyrum, UT@ Uteology:As of when I'm
writing this, you have posted 5 of the last 8 comments to this article. And
every single one of them mentions BYU and makes comparisons to them. That is
unquestionably and undoubtedly an obsession... perhaps even to the level of
Chris B. -----------Try keeping up. The article
"slice and diced statistics" to spin Kyles record. I gave Bronoc's
stats to give perspective to show how meaningless this article was.And then comes along one Cougar Nation member after another trying to change
the subject from "62% of Bronco Mendenhall's wins come against losing
teams" to how better BYU because one snap shot of rankings say so.I have no doubt in my mind that a team that competes with Utah and TCU who is
0-8 against both would get pummeled in the PAC-12 and Big 12.BYU has
a chance to prove it field against Wisconsin and Notre Dame and maybe USC in the
bowl game. If you I'll give you props, just like I have in 2006, 2007, and
2009. When clearly BYU was the better team.
TatorsHyrum, UT@ Samurai Jake:Interesting, and yet
somewhat sad how you, Uteology and slcjimmy use every limited statistic you can
find against BYU (usually taken out of context) all season long, but when an
article comes out with a complete statistical analysis exposoing Utah's
coach and team performance, you suddenly contend that statistics mean nothing.
You literally make me laugh at the irony and hypocrisy.------------I did no such thing, the article did by ignoring the
2008 season to spin a point. I gave the entire sample size, Broncos
win-loss for each and ever season and each and every game. I did not include
this this season considering the season is still ongoing.I provided
Bronco's stats to compare and to prove how meaningless this article is: * Over 103 games* 28 wins against winning teams (including 3 D2
teams)* 46 wins against losing teams (including 2 D2 teams)* 62% of
the total wins were against losing teamsWhat I can't understand
is why are you still trying to defend the bogus article.
@Truth MachineCurrent BCS Rankings#27 BYU(6-2)#45
Utah(4-4)Chances of BYU finishing in the final Top 25 - decentChances of Utah finishing in the final Top 25 - NONE---------------And you think your chances of finishing in the
final Top 25 against our opponents would be "decent"? BYU
has not beat a SINGLE final ranked Big 5 team since 1996. When your starting RB
was in diapers, 17 years ago.But BYU fans think that they would beat
these still ranked teams: #23 ASU, #19 UCLA, #5 Stanford, #3 @Oregon?On top of that beat a Utah a team they are 3-9 against, @USC a team
they've never beaten, @Arizona, and OSU?Moreover, with your
current talent (over the last three years) your only wins were against PAC-12
3-9 teams. You'll have a chance to prove me wrong, against
Wisconsin, Notre Dame, and maybe USC.
Where will Whit coach next ?
UteologyUtah wouldn't stand a chance of finishing in the Top 25
playing BYU's schedule.Utah is WINLESS against Texas, Houston,
Boise State, and Notre Dame.Utah lost to the Aggies the last time U played
in Logan.Utah wouldn't stand a chance of beating Wisconsin in Camp
Randall.Utah barely beat Georgia Tech by 3 points in OT the last time you
played them.That's six to seven losses playing BYU's
schedule - right about where Utah will finish playing their own schedule.
Pretty sure this article was about Kyle, not Bronco or BYU.The
insecurity of Utah fans is evident.
@True BlueYou can't compare Bronco's record against PAC 12
schools with Whitt. Utah had the best record against BCS schools in comparison
with any other mid major (TCU, Boise State and BYU included) from 2000-2010.
Once Utah went into the PAC 12 and played these programs week in and week out
you saw the winning percentage plummet. TCU has experienced the same thing in
the BIG 10. BYU plays cupcakes for half their schedule and then is fresher for
the big games, which they still lose. They lost to Utah after a bye week, lost
to Wisconsin after a bye week, and would fare no better with Utah's
schedule. I mean playing Virginia, GT, Houston, middle Tennessee, Idaho, and
Nevada is a joke. Try Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Arizona State and so on.
Does @ Tators work for DN? Absolutely pathetic one dimensional journalism by DN.
Every other Ute post is denied by screeners! I'm I the only one with this
problem Ute fans? Prove me wrong DN & allow this post. Let's see if
I'm correct? I dare you? Show me you're a legitimate & credible
slcjimmyTrevor Phibbs, author of the article, is currently senior at
the University of Utah.Quit trying to shoot the messenger, just
because you don't like the message.
@ Uteanymous...How would anyone including yourself even know what my message was
since of course it was denied by DN...How many universities in this state belong
to a BCS conference and a power one on top of it? Oh that's right..One! How
many times in the last 12 meetings has your cougies beat The U? That's
right 3 times. How many wins do your cougies have in last 4 meetings?
That's right ZERO! Has your university found a conference better yet a BCS
power conference? That's right...NO! Now let's see whom shoots the
messenger now? That's right...You!
Reading comments about a Piece on BYU or on The Utes is sooo draining! These two
colleges are better described as cousins instead of brothers! Each have more
connections to each other than the extremes on both sides like to admit! Alumni
from the UofU include Lavell Edwards, Stephen Covey, President Hinkley, &
President Monson. Former Men that were involved in BYU Football that have or are
currently running the Utes, Kyle and Norm Chow to name a few. Taking jabs at
Kyle by Cougars fans is only discrediting the powers that be that are in control
of BYU and it's direction. Kyle was offered the head BYU coaching job after
the leaders of the program put a lot of time and due diligence in coming to that
conclusion. Being a Cougar or a Ute fan doesn't make you better or worse in
the overall scheme of things! Because of the hatred on both sides I find myself
cheering for all teams in Utah to be successful! Obviously God cares about all
the players and coaches on both sides. I am pretty sure if God had a team...
they would always have a perfect record. Kindness,Pass it on