Comments about ‘Michael Gerson: The GOP's new reality’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 6 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

There once was a time that the Republican party was primarily composed of Burkean conservatives (see Dwight Eisenhower). That era is long gone. The GOP is now composed of the people that Burke feared the most: radical revolutionaries.

airnaut
Everett, 00

I've said it before, I'll say it again...

The Tea-party reminds me of a couple of scenes from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

1. The "Black Knight" who believes he is actually winning and is invincible while obviously to everyone else is getting whacked down to nothing.
and
2. The extremely ignorant (and paranoid) puritan Villagers, who upon finding one of their own (a young woman) has one tiny little wart - take it upon themselves to turn her into something she is not, and burn her at the stake anyway.

one vote
Salt Lake City, UT

Tea party lost in Virginia. Was the Senator Cruz-Lee shutdown the difference?

mohokat
Ogden, UT

moderate republicans always win ie McCain, Romney. Nuff said?

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

@Airnaut, the witch scene is exactly what I see in my head when I hear or sea the the tea party.

Cruz: "Obama turned me into a newt."..."I got better."

To use a conservative defense. The republican party allowed the camel (tea party) to get his his nose under their "Big Tent." Now there's no room for the GOP especially rinos.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Don't sell it short. It was tactically AND symbolically disastrous. Oh, and how about that Christie?

T. Party
Pleasant Grove, UT

This is America. Re-alignment is the constant, but the age-old controversy between liberty and equality rages on.

On one side we have people who value liberty more than any other principle. On the other side we have people who value equality of outcome. America has tried with varying success to blend these principles in a way which allows them to co-exist. When liberty prevails, we prosper (and, by the way, we achieve greater equality).

America is beginning to see that the botched Obamacare blend is toxic to liberty. I anticipate a widespread rejection of it. Enough to discredit Big Government for all time? Probably not, but for many years, yes. Bad ideas have a way of crawling back out of the dumpster of history.

One thing is for certain: as long as there is one person fighting for liberty, the tea party is alive. The budget showdown may have been symbolic, but it did show us who are the fighters, and who are the weasels.

@airnut and one vote

If this is Monte Python, you're the guys loading up the wagon with people who aren't dead yet.

mohokat
Ogden, UT

@ Happy

To use a conservative defense. The republican party allowed the camel (tea party) to get his his nose under their "Big Tent." Now there's no room for the GOP especially rinos.

And the Democrats have Socialists/Communists and certainly a President who appears to have a propensity for lying.No contest in my opinion!

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

mohokat
Ogden, UT

You know,
You guys get soooo upset about the hiccups of the Obamacare website,

And yet can't seem to remember the 2 Wars, 5,000 dead Americans, 75,000 wounded, and the $3 Trillion unfunded doallars spent over the LIES of GWBush and Cheney.

That old mote vs. beam in the eye anaology applies here very well...

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@mohokat – “moderate republicans always win ie McCain, Romney. Nuff said?”

They do when they stay true to their moderate sensibilities. McCain and Romney destroyed any chance of winning when the made a hard right turn, which they both did throughout the early parts of their campaign but is best exemplified by McCain’s VP choice and Romney’s 47% comment.

Most Americans, no matter which direction they lean, don’t like divisive or overly-ideological leaders.

I personally can’t wait for Christie to run in 2016. Not sure I would vote for him but it will be a blast to watch him thumb his nose (in his typical Tony Soprano-like Jersey manner) at the far-right ideologues throughout the primary - unless he repeats the mistakes of McCain and Romney and panders shamelessly at Bob Jones “University” in a soul-selling but likely futile effort to gain the White House.

We’ll see if he’s gone to school on those guys and stays true to himself.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

"...On the other side we have people who value equality of outcome."

No... that is not what is being asked. It is equality of opportunity. While many of the barriers to prosperity have been removed, they are far from gone. No one is asking everyone get a B in class... nor are they saying every job should pay the same. But they are asking that all class rooms are taught with the same resources, and that you not be denied work because of race, color, religion or any other factor other than your skills or lack there of.

Statements like above, that intentionally characterize the other side falsely cause the most harm. Rather than trying to speak for the other side, speak for yourself, and what you stand for. Let the other side speak for themselves... and then let people decide.

I don't need you to tell me what progressives believe. I don't need progressives to tell me what tea party people believe. Someone at some point will need to start telling what they will do, rather than what the other side is doing wrong. Otherwise it will become really quite - which isn't bad either.

There You Go Again
Saint George, UT

"...The National Republican Senatorial Committee has cut ties with a Republican advertising firm employed by tea-party challengers. "We're not going to do business," says a spokesman, "with people who profit off of attacking Republicans. Purity for profit is a disease that threatens the Republican Party."

People who profit off of attacking Republicans?

Who in the name of heritage foundation favorites mike lee and t. cruz could that possibly be?

"...Matt Kibbe, the president and CEO of FreedomWorks, describes it well: "You're really seeing a disintermediation in politics. ... Grass-roots activists have an ability to self-organize, to fund candidates they're more interested in, going right around the Republican National Committee and senatorial committee...".

Disintermediation?

Matt Kibbe took over for ex-president and CEO of Freedom Works Dick Armey who received an $8,000,000 golden parachute from Freedom Works...

Freedom Works works(ed)...at least for Dick Armey!

"...As the public standing of the GOP recently reached its lowest point ever, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, told a cheering tea-party audience, "Look, the Democrats are feeling the heat." It is one thing to engage in Pickett's Charge; another to describe it as a victory...".

Amen.

airnaut
Everett, 00

mohokat
Ogden, UT
moderate republicans always win ie McCain, Romney. Nuff said?

8:13 a.m. Nov. 6, 2013

=========

Let me guess,
You think the Republicans keep loosing over and over again and getting pasted in the General Elections because McCain and Romney weren't "Conservative" [i.e., uber-far-right-wing Limbaugh, Beck, or Hannity] enough?

If so, you deserve to loose, each and everytime.

BTW -- Saint Ronald Reagan was RINO of epic proportions.
and guys like you would be the first to publically execute him.

T. Party
Pleasant Grove, UT

@UtahBlueDevil "No... that is not what is being asked. It is equality of opportunity."

Equality of opportunity is to create laws which apply equally to everyone, and enforce them equally for everyone, and then let them decide for themselves how they will behave within that framework. If one group ends up with health insurance, and the other group ends up with big screen TV's, that's their choice. You let them live with the consequences.

Equality of outcome is to do things like forcing one group of people to pay higher prices for insurance plans they don't necessarily want, in order to provide insurance for another group who doesn't have it.

Which do you support?

mohokat
Ogden, UT

@ Tyler

If Christie runs in 2016 it will be interesting.

Romney got over 2 million less votes than MaCain

Romney got 5% more Independents than Obama

That translates to lack of base turnout.

Chritie if he is listening will thumb his nose at his own peril

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

What was it called again by other Republicans:

Stop being the Party of Stupid - Gov. Bobby Jindal
The GOP needs a GOP Proctology Exam - Gov. Haley Barbour

The Democrats threw out former-Clinton, shady investment dealing, never held an elected office - loser in Virgina and WON!

The GOP has no-one --- not even the Democrats -- for their abismal performance.

IMHO -- The GOP should purge itself of the radical Tea-Party,
and start re-building itself on a more Big-Tent inclusive, moderate platform, ala RINO Reagan.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@T. Party – “If one group ends up with health insurance, and the other group ends up with big screen TV's, that's their choice.”

Implying that the “haves” and “have nots” are actually all “haves” - the only real difference is what they “chose” to have (likely a small amount of truth to this).

But if that was how it was in most of the real world (and not just in an Ayn Rand novel) I would be Tea Party conservative too.

@mohokat – “That translates to lack of base turnout.”

Or a shrinking base…

I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that conservatives are dying off at a faster rate than liberals and moderates, and conversely (given their current tone) are not replacing those who pass on at a rate necessary to stay whole.

But I agree, 2016 should be an interesting campaign…

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

T.Party.... you really think part time employees at Walmart or Target are deciding between insurance or a big screen TV. What comic book did that come from?

If you want to make this about health care.... what I want is for everyone to pay so I don't have to pay a premium bill to cover the free services that are being handed out via the emergency room door to those who choose not to pay.

With healthcare, the option is not to let someone die because they bought a big screen tv versus paying for insurance. That isn't how works, nor is it how it should work.

Here is the net of what I am taking from your argument. Its about your money. Not money that you have been blessed with that is a stewardship... but it is money.... that you earned through your own skills and will.... and that you have no responsibility to impart with to help those less blessed.

Its not my political beliefs that keep me from supporting that stance... it is my religious beliefs.

T. Party
Pleasant Grove, UT

@UtahBlueDevil "Here is the net of what I am taking from your argument. Its about your money....that you have no responsibility to impart with to help those less blessed."

No, I believe exactly the opposite. I *do* have the responsibility to help those in need. It is a moral responsibility I take very seriously, motivated by my religious beliefs.

What I don't believe in, is granting government the power to compel this from me and others. A government which has this power is a threat to life and liberty. As I said before: I value liberty over equality of outcome. And it is evident from your response that you value equality of outcome.

"what I want is for everyone to pay so I don't have to pay a premium bill to cover the free services..."

So, it's about money? (Sorry...couldn't resist. Can we agree that it's not helpful to impute motives?)

Believe me, I do see where you're coming from on helping the poor. I also believe strongly in preserving agency and individual liberty and personal responsibility as we seek ways to help.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

T. Party:

True equality of opportunity would mean that everyone starts at the same point. Would you agree?

I would assert these conditions simply don't exist.

Some kids have considerable advantages, and a lot of kids don't have anything remotely close to that. If you really believed what you were saying, you'd advocate that millionaires and billionaires give away all their money when they die, with no money or resources going to their progeny as an advantage to continue the family legacy of wealth.

Those on the far right like to pretend there is true equality in opportunity so they can feel better about what they advocate for, but that is really just a fantasy, an unrealistic premise to justify an ideology that results in great inequalities.

"The poor have chosen their lot in lives. Homeless people really just prefer that lifestyle. Children of immigrants have just as good a chance of becoming Billionaries as anyone else, including the children of Bill Gates."

Well, not quite.

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