When a friend of mine ran as a Democrat for the state legislature and she was
afraid to put the donkey symbol on her literature, that about said it all...It
took the Red Sox 86 years to win a World Series, sounds about right, save
Matheson, for a Democrat to win anything substantial.
BandersenI Don't disagree with you main point. I am not saying
that the parties do a good job representing the people. I actually am a
believer in the term, "low information voter." And I believe the
T-Party has been the most effective grass roots political movement in recent
times. My point is that had the T-Party run as a third party instead of a part
of the Republican Party, they would not have won the House, but would have cost
the Republican Party many seats that they currently have. I'am saying that
the power structure is in either of the two major parties, and that trying to
run a third party candidate usually ends up bad for the political side you
happen to be on. Look at Perot. Got almost one fifth of the total vote, which
probably got Clinton elected, and his Reform Party got nothing in return.
As long as Mormons believe you have to be a Republican to be on the Lord's
side, a democrat will never win. As a matter of fact, I bet most Mormons
don't even bother to listen. How people can feel that one party is the
party of God is something I will never understand, but we all know why it
happens. They get one little hint from certain people, and that is all they
need. Good grief!
SCFan: Your wrong. Unfortunately, most who belong to a party haven't a
clue as to what has been happening the past half century. Party platforms are
meaningless. Fortunately, there are those who are actually standing for
something, rather than just talking about it, and the parties people call them
extremists, Tea-party, uncompromising destroyers of the fabric of America. That
all stands to reason when you realize that for both parties, it is not about
representing the 'people', but maintaining power and control. The
last thing that parties represent are the 'people,' unless, of
course, if enough of the 'people' go along with giving up liberty for
BandersenThat may be a good political philosophy, but in the
politics today, it is the two major parties that get people elected. In
Virginia, the elected governor McCaulif got less votes than the Republican and
the 3rd party guy, who was really a Democrat financed plant meant to take votes
away from the Republican, and it worked. 3rd parties usually only serve to deny
the majority in either party their candidate winning. In 2000 Ralph Naders
party denied Gore the election. If you are not involved in one of the two major
parties, then you are not involved. There really is no useful 3rd choice in
American politics today.
@Kent C. DeForrestBlaming Republicans (or their constituency) for
Democrat woes will not solve Democrat problems (or win a constituency) and
merely insure Republicans will continue to win.It is the job of the
party to attract voters - not vice versaSo thank you (and your
"likes") for perfectly illustrating why Democrats do not win in Utah.
Political parties are an organization structure, not think tanks. Utah
Democrats represent a wide variety of thoughts and perspectives about how to get
problems solved. In reading these comments, I'm blown away at the
stereotypes that the posters are using to describe Democrats. I don't know
many run-of-the-mill Democrats who wouldn't protect a child - born or not -
or who believe in taking freedom away. Truly sad state of affairs when all
thinking goes out the window and we have to use rhetoric and labels to describe
things we don't understand.
You're all living in the past. The future belongs to those who don't
delegate their thinking to any party. Where are the real patriots that can
actually stand up for something without insecurely running to the nearest
democratic or republican flag for support? What a pathetic way to live!
Don't you have something better to do with your time than to jump on an
empty bandwagon (party platforms) that has long, long, long ago died? George
Washington said, "However [political parties] may now and then answer
popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent
engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to
subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of
government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to
unjust dominion." Enough said! Of course, Utahns who otherwise speak in
meek terms about George Washington will ignore what he said here! After all, it
is a different age, isn't it?
The fundamental difference between the parties is free choice. Democrats do not
believe in it unless it involves the ability to flush an unborn child down the
sink. Democrats want the government to control every aspect of our lives. How
many people are losing their health insurance because the Democrats have decided
it is not good enough. Why shouldn't a singe guy pay twice as much to get
maternity coverage? Yes, the Democrats know what is good for you and you must
comply.No thanks. I already voted against the "we wil force you
to do the right thing" plan once.
@ atl 134 According to a report on CNN, here are the cities with the highest
number of welfare recipients;#1. Detroit, MI#2. Buffalo, NY#3.
Cincinnati, OH#4. Cleveland, OH#5. Miami, FL#6. St. Louis,
MO#7. El Paso, TX#8. Milwaukee, WI#9. Philadelphia, PA#10.Newark, NJAll run by Democrats! Coincidence?
@ E Sam"The Red Sox won, in part, by growing out their beards.
Don't see that working in Utah."The facial hair sported by
the Red Sox resembled what was in vogue here in the mid 19th century or
currently in Pakistan.
The party supports the candidates with money and manpower. Any Democrat who
runs must either be a millionaire and self fund or be "beholden" to the
party for the support and adhere to the party platform, written and
understood.I am not so much a Republican as a conservative and know
the Republican party is not by nature conservative but I can live with them.
Democrats since 1968 have become socialistic in nature and I cannot support
them.IMO those in ivory towers of education appear to see a
different society than the one I live in. I am uncomfortable with their espoused
values and identified leaders. Changing the singer will not change the song if
the conductor remains in the lead.
It seems most commenters approached this from a national perspective but locally
is really the only place the average person has any influence. I'm not a
native but I love living in Utah. It's a great place to have a family and
seems to be fairly well run and prosperous. What exactly are Republicans doing
wrong here? Do we need more urban blight so Provo can be like Gary, IN or
Detroit, MI? Am I missing something? Do we need more abortion clinics? I say if
it ain't broke don't fix it.
I actually had this very conundrum just a few years ago. As an Independent who
generally leans right and votes Republican, I knew personally Dave Thomas and
his family when he ran for Congress against Rob Bishop. Dave Thomas was a
Bishop at the time, very successful businessman, hunter, former teacher, and
just a really good guy. I love Dave and his family. When I found out he was
running for congress, it weighed heavily on my mind. Would I vote for Dave who
was a Democrat and would be expected to vote the Democrat party line or Rob
Bishop who I more closely aligned with politically. After nights of soul
searching, I finally voted for Rob Bishop because of the National Democrat
Party. Unfortunately, the reality is, the national parties run the agenda.
Until the national Democrat party more closely aligns with Utah values, they
will be a minority in Utah.
Oh, and Joe, I wasn't necessarily referring to you with my
"uninformed" comment, but I was indeed talking about lots of my
neighbors, who vote "R" but don't take the time to find out
anything about what's going on politically, economically, or otherwise in
JoeC2,I have, believe me. Put forth arguments, that is. And lots of
them. In fact, what I was writing way back in 1995 is more relevant today than
it was then. I'd call that a pretty good track record.
@Mountanman"When Utah gets more welfare recipients, then the Democrats
will win elections"The state with the highest percentage of
people not paying any income taxes is Mississippi, not exactly a liberal
stronghold... in fact Romney won 8 out of 10 states with the highest percentages
of their people not paying income taxes (Obama won Florida and New Mexico, the
ones that Romney won were Idaho and southern states). So yeah... funny joke, but
it's not based on you know... facts.
I think a better analogy would be "democrats have a chance of winning in
Utah like the Cubs have of winning the World Series"...not going to happen
For the Democrats to win in Utah, they usually have to pretend that they
aren't who they are. They have tried this in recent elections, but lots
of people aren't buying it.
Once gay marriage is not issue - within the next 5 years, all the R's will
have is abortion. With access to B control under ACA, abortion should become
less of an issue. Then when the world doesn't implode within the next 10
years and Generation Xers start to retire and realize SS and Medicare are kind
nice to have, the country and probably UT will start to look fondly at the
Democratic party. Mix in new Hispanic citizens under immigration reform and one
can almost imagine demise of the conservative Republican party as it is
When Utah gets more welfare recipients, then the Democrats will win elections.
Obamacare insurance subsides will help.
The Red Sox won, in part, by growing out their beards. Don't see that
working in Utah.
JunkgeekNowhere did the article talk about reaching out to the tea party.
Why are you making stuff up?GZE,Yes, BO is an extreme
left-wing ideologue. Guess you missed where he was consistently rate THE most
liberal senator when he occupied that office.Kent,How mistaken
you are. Most Utahans view the GOP as the only viable alternative to the dems.
THAT is why they garner so much support, because dem policies and agendas are so
anathema to Utahans.There you go again,Cannot argue the
statement, so you attack a news channel that has editorial opinions with which
you disagree. SUCH a compelling argument! WOW, you’ve won me over.JoeC2,Don’t hold your breath.
No. No. No. It will do no good for the democrats to transform themselves into
republicans. The people of Utah and America need leaders who are
facing forward to the future and not those who are living in the past. The
people have been moved into the future by the technology, the creativity and
pure brain power of human kind; it’s time that the systems of civilization
catch up. Those of desirable and comfortable positions in our
society would like to keep things just as they are. They would be even happier
if we would return to the rule of lords and ladies, kings and subjects and such
classifications. We cannot allow that to happen. Republicans, Tea Party and
conservatives are their henchmen. The leaders needed must be
willing to change the rules and the values to fit the world now and in the
future. A new way of delivering the benefits of civilization and society to its
members must be created to replace the slavery systems of the past. Physical
and even mental labors are no longer proper measurements of a persons worth and
should be eliminated from the equation.
There You Go Again: Of course Republicans from states with largely liberal
constituents do the same thing. I never said they didn't.Kent
C. Deforrest, et al.: I am conservative and I support government policies and
officials that are more closely aligned with my personal beliefs. I have
educated myself on the issues by studying, listening to a variety of sources,
and from personal experience. I don't vote or think a certain way just
because of something I heard on Fox News or because LDS leaders tend to lean
republican. I am sick of insinuations like yours that every conservative is a
stupid drone that is easily duped by talk radio.Disagree if you
like. Put forth valid arguments that support your cause. But quit trying to
marginalize the opposition with such destructive rhetoric.
As long as the LDS first presidency and the Council of the 12 remain almost
entirely republican, most LDS voters will vote republican like they do now.
@joecap2Thanks for the rush, fox news entertainment, drudge
update!Especially..."...Utah voters know that even
moderate Democrats like Jim Matheson will vote the majority of the time along
party lines when their vote really counts. They will go against their party and
side with their constituents only when they know that it doesn't matter.
That way they can use those votes to show how moderate they are in the next
election...".republicans never work this gambit?
All we have to do is wait 86 years.
Sorry to say I disagree with Richard on this one. As long as most Utahns think
GOP stands for God's Only Party, they will continue to be uninformed on the
issues and simply vote straight-ticket "R" because it's the
"R"ighteous thing to do.And JoeC2, you've been watching
too much Faux News and listening to too much echo-chamber music on the radio.
Yes Obama and Clinton are extreme left-wing ideologues. They know that they
can't get their entire left wing agenda passed all at once, so they are
content to get their in stages. Obamacare is just a step towards single payer.
Obama and Clinton are "extreme left-wing ideologues"?
I always find myself on the opposite side of the Democrats. They will not
defend the unborn. They will not defend traditional marriage. They will not
live within their means. They believe the answer to everything is to raise
taxes. They want to control my healthcare options. They will not work with
Republicans. Not one, of the more than 22 amendments to the ACA, proposed by
Republicans was accepted by Democrats, not one. They lie to get their bills
passed (you can keep your insurance and doctors). They support weird laws that
would allow boys to use girls' restrooms and girls to use boys'
restrooms. How does this make our girls safe from any sexual predator claiming
to be what he is not? Democrats in Utah have a huge hurdle to
overcome to get my vote.
Until the Democratic party stops fully supporting every extreme left wing agenda
item that comes down the pipe, it will always be at odds with the majority of
Utah voters.The media loves to blast the tea party and other
conservative groups by saying how "far to the right" that some elements
of the GOP are trying to pull the party. But they also give a complete pass to
every extremist left wing group that is pulling the Democratic party farther and
farther left.All the major democratic leaders these days (Obama,
Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, etc,) are extreme left wing ideologues yet the
media tries to portray them as some kind of moderates.Utah voters
know that even moderate Democrats like Jim Matheson will vote the majority of
the time along party lines when their vote really counts. They will go against
their party and side with their constituents only when they know that it
doesn't matter. That way they can use those votes to show how moderate they
are in the next election.
Why bother reaching out to the tea party, which is self-immolating. At some
point, if it wants to be politically relevant on a national stage, Utah will
have to change.
It is all about possessing the same values as their electorate and right now the
national party is so different that the local party doesn't stand a chance.
As long as Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi run the national party statewide
democrats are probably just a figment of our imagination.
Many Utah Democrats are anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage. They still tend to