Uteology"Playing a similar schedule in the MWC (aka 1-3 BCS
teams per year):"Bronco finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR straight
years (2006-2009)Kyle finished in the AP Top 25 TWICE (2008 and 2009)-------------Playing FIVE AP Top 25 teams in 2012, BYU
finished 8-5 with a bowl winPlaying TWO AP Top 25 teams in 2012, Utah
finished 5-7 with no bowl-------------Versus BCS teams
this yearBYU 3-2Utah 1-4-------------Spin away, but good luck trying to convince potential recruits that's
better to beat BYU, but finish with a losing record and no bowl, than to lose to
Utah, but finish just out of the Top 25 with a bowl win.I suspect
that most recruits would rather spend bowl week playing in San Diego or San
Francisco, than spend it watching from the comfort of their couch.
My Huskies have lost to Oregon 10 years in a row. They've lost 7 of last 10
to Stanford. Utah fans were excited and optimistic about PAC-12 success, in
spite of my dire warnings. The reality is that just as the Big12 is dominated by
Texas and OU, the SEC by Alabama and LSU, PAC12 is dominated by Stanford and
Oregon, with UCLA and USC upcoming, Utah will seldom if ever be a dominant team
in the PAC-12. Is anybody afraid of WSU, Colorado, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas,
etc. ? No. Big conference membership guarantees nothing but a chance to go to a
big bowl. It does not guarantee a good team.Utah went to a BCS bowl
twice in recent years. Probably won't happen again anytime soon. ND and
Penn State as independents went to "championship bowls". Penn State,
since joining the Big 10 has not seen a major bowl. ND is a special case.BYU has a better chance to be in a big bowl than most conference
members.That being said, Utah like the rest of the PAC12 will be
happy with winning seasons and decent bowl games. That's reality, and
Prior post was denied. Here's the gist:We beat Stanford,
Stanford beat Oregon, so we'll beat Oregon...right!
Posting on my own behalf: I think we'll lose the next three.
We lose to ASU because they have owned us since WAC days and are better this
year than we are (the only chance we would have is if Dennis Erickson was still
coaching them). We lose to Oregon, catching their wrath after they were
embarrassed by Stanford. We lose to WSU because we won't be able to stop
their offense. We beat CU after Dr. Hill announces the firing of KW and the
players decide finally to show up to give him a good send off.
@Uteology"Maybe we can fire Kyle and pick up Gary Patterson from
TCU?"Didn't you know?! Dr Hill has already hired
Kwhitt's replacement...he's now coaching your offense. Credit to Dr
Hill for looking ahead at the downward trend Kwhitt's team was on and
getting ready for the inevitable after a 2nd consecutive season with a losing
record. Dr Hill's promoting of Dennis Erickson in December will
sound like a good move and temporarily buy him some time and hold off the wolves
that are howling for his job after he ran both the football and basketball
programs into the ground, mishandled the swim team debacle, etc.
@PacUte"Even if the Utes manage to qualify for a bowl, the best they
can hope for will be a berth in the New Mexico Bowl against a team like
Wyoming"No, I think the writer made it clear that all of the
Pac12 bowl commitments will be taken and that includes the New Mexico Bowl.
There are worse bowls out there, however, that might not be filled that Utah
could maybe get invited to. There's always the Famous Idaho
Potato Bowl in Boise against a lower tier MAC team or lower tier MWC team if one
of those conferences aren't able to fill all their bowls. The good news
with that is you'd get a good matchup, you're likely not to get
slaughtered, and it's close to home so whatever fans are left at that point
of the season can carpool to the game.
I'm a Cougar fan--loyal, strong, and true; bleed blue; etc., etc.--and I
still think Utah can pull it off. The writer notes all the big games Utah has
left on its schedule (visiting Arizona State and Oregon), but seems to discount
the fact that Utah (from what I've seen) gets up for big games. Yeah the
next couple of games will be tough, but they surprised a lot of folks with their
win over Stanford and their physically dominant performance over the Cougars.
They could surprise again. Here's wishing them good luck.
Y>U Anaheim, CAUteologyMore
deflecting?Bronco is 9-8 (53%) versus PAC 12 teams. Bronco is 2-0
versus Washington.Kyle is 12-18 (40%) versus PAC 12 teams. Kyle is 0-2
versus Washington.-------------Playing a similar
schedule in the MWC (aka 1-3 BCS teams per year):Kyle: 11-5 (68.8%)
against teams with a combined record of 107-82 (56.6%)Bronco: 8-9 (47.1%)
... (53.7%)Kyle vs. PAC-10: 4-3 (67.1%) against teams with a
combined record of 49-29 (62.8%)Bronco vs. PAC-10: 7-4 (63.6) ... 65-73
(47.1%)I am sure Gary Patterson has similar numbers before joining
the Big 12. You're the ONLY one on this planet that thinks
BYU, the 3rd best team in the MWC, would be competitive in the PAC-12 or Big 12.
Back in 2008 KW was touted as Urban Meyer II. He was the greatest coach ever.
The fact that KW originated from BYU was ignored and or largely deflected.I predict that, if the Utah program declines, the only thing ute fans
will be pointing at is that KW originated from BYU. I think that there is hope
for the U, but KW will need to quit obsessing over defense (which is important
but out of balance with offensive needs) and recruit quality quarterbacks to the
first and second team.
@slcjimmy:Right on, my man! Your comments are refreshing, because
they're backed by actual facts, not delusional happy valley wordplay.Yes, the Utes have been snake bitten with 15 turnovers in 4 PAC 12
games. That fact alone is putrid and horrific. However, turnovers aside, the
Utes have had legitimate chances to win every game except for the SC no-show.The keys to Saturday's matchup:*Healthy TW hand*Confident TW mind*TW not turning the ball over*TW's
receivers not dropping balls that should be caught*The defense flying
around and matching the speed of the Sun Devils*The coaches, team leaders,
and TW displaying some healthy intensity and emotional passion during game time
- they need to get more fired up! This is football, not a mere job*Playing with a chip on their shoulder; not letting anybody waltz into RES
take the game away! WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE!Go Utes!
I just don't understand why it always has to come back to who's better
between Utah and BYU. Neither team is a national contender and both are playing
for nothing more than somewhat of a joke bowl games.BYU fans go
crazy over their Texas win and say nothing of losing to Virginia and Utah. Utah
fans go crazy over beating Stanford and BYU and say nothing of losing to USC or
Arizona. Both teams' fans just have blinders on. Both teams are flawed, but
both can be dangerous on any given week. Truth be told they are almost the same
team. They can dominate non-BCS opponents and can beat a ranked team every now
and then. They both have great wins over the last few years and sad losses.Things aren't as bad for Utah as this article and BYU fans want you
to believe, and things aren't as good as Utah fans would have you believe.
BYU would struggle just as much as Utah with the same schedule only they'd
have one more loss (against Utah).
Not sure why I even read DNews anymore. I grow weary of reading the same old
anti-Utah sentiment regardless of the author. Yeah, Utah is struggling, we all
knew they would. The PAC is a conference that seems to get stronger every year.
But so is Utah. Sure USC and AZ were WTF? games but the 2011 or 2012 squads
would be 2-6 with blowouts to UCLA and OSU. They're not quite there yet but
they're improving, that's for sure. Not that you would know by reading
ANY of the local media. Sigh.
UteologyMore deflecting?Bronco is 9-8 (53%) versus PAC
12 teams. Bronco is 2-0 versus Washington.Kyle is 12-18 (40%) versus PAC
12 teams. Kyle is 0-2 versus Washington.Please explain the relevance
of BYU's record versus Boise St or TCU to Utah's
"competitiveness", or lack thereof, in the PAC 12.If Bronco
has only beaten up on cupcakes, while Kyle has been beating up on AP ranked
teams, why does Bronco have TWICE as many AP Top 25 finishes (2006 to 2009) as
Kyle (2008 and 2009)?Despite your spin, Bronco has finished ahead of
Kyle in record AND ranking in 5 of the last 8 seasons, soon to be 6 of the last
9.Break out the whiny SOS excuses.
CGOrem, UTSo 4-5, 3-6, 1-4, 8-15 overall is "being
competitive", according to our delusional friends on the hill?----------------------Is 1-11 vs Utah, TCU, and Boise last 5
years?Is 3-9 vs your rival in last 12 years?Is 15-14 vs Big 5 teams
under Bronco?Yes you've beat tons of cupcakes. Congrats! But then who hasn't:* Utah finished 33-6 in the MWC and
8-1 since then (all 7 loses to AP ranked teams)* TCU was 77-13 in
the MWC and 4-0 since then against mid-majors
@Scott"The Utes are just what most objective observers expected
them to be when they joined the PAC - perennial conference bottom dwellers. Pathetic."And the Cougars are just what they've
been since Utah joined the PAC - perennial losers to Utah. It's why
you're obsessed with this "bottom dweller" and feel compelled to
read and comment on articles about our team.Pathetic.
So 4-5, 3-6, 1-4, 8-15 overall is "being competitive", according to our
delusional friends on the hill?Of course if that was BYU's
record in any conference, and BYU fans tried to claim that record show that BYU
was "competitive", our friends on the hill would laugh us to scorn.Utah fans were boasting before the Utes had played a single game in the
PAC, that the Utes could compete with ANYBODY and they'd being playing in
the Rose Bowl within a very short time. They laughed at anybody who suggested
that the Utes wouldn't be any better than Arizona, a perennial conference
also ran and bottom dweller who hasn't played in a Rose Bowl in 30+ years
in the conference.
@81Ute"7. BYU football is irrelevent to everybody but BYU
fans."You forgot one, every body but BYU fans AND ESPN:The
Worldwide Leader In Sports.
MountainMan25Salt Lake City, UTHate to say it, but this
article is spot on.We have had THREE years to become competitive in
the PAC 12. ------------And we have been competitive, in
every game except USC it came down to the last minutes. Did you even watch the
games?Utah is on the right track, it takes more than three years to
build PAC-12 depth. Eric Weddle said after we accepted the PAC 12
invite that it would take about 4-5 years to start winning consistently. I
agree with his analysis and so does ESPN.
@TatorsI stand corrected. Fair Enough Guy. I could list the same
type of BYU fans, but what's the use? It doesn't take long to figure
out rational fans, from angry bitter haters. Regardless of whether you are a BYU
or Utah fan. Rock On Tators!@MountainmanYep, this is a
pivotal season for Hoops. I thought the basketball program made some nice
strides last year. Anything short of Post Season, and really the NIT, would be
dissapointing this year. I'm optimistic that Utah will be the 2nd best team
in the state in Hoops this year; right behing BYU. Utah State didn't look
so hot last year either. The PAC 12 is a tougher football, than basketball
Sorry to say it, but this article is spot on.Utah is in bad shape
right now, and Whittingham is the reason.
This was a stupid article and shows the author has no idea what he's
talking about. If Utah goes 6-6 they will definitely go to a bowl game. There
are actually several options for Utah. They could go to the Las Vegas Bowl, New
Mexico Bowl, or the Heart of Dallas Bowl (which the Pac 12 analysts for ESPN
have predicted). Also, I'm not impressed at all that BYU has more wins than
Utah. All BYU does is beat lesser opponents and then pound their chest at the
end of the year because they have the better record. All you have to do is look
at the strength of schedules between the 2 schools.
@ Tators. @ Uteanymous. @ Swoop...I'll play the tit-for-tat game. Has your
university found a conference? Do you know what college football team will more
then likely play #1 schedule in the entire country after it's all said and
done? Would you like a hint? You haven't beaten them in the last 4 meetings
and counting! Where does "YBU" rate on strength of schedule? Go ahead
and research that and get back to me. Also do you know how many wins UVA has? 2!
"YBU" & Virginia Military Institute (Wasn't aware they even had
a team) Consistently beat mediocre teams such as UVA and then possibly talk
about playing in a power conference such as The PAC 12 or Big 12. Until then
enjoy your "Independence"
Not giving up on the basketball season just yet, but I don't have high
expectations either. And for all of our dominance of BYU football, it has been
just as one-sided in their favor in basketball. We are probably the
third/fourth best basketball program in the state now...
@ Spokane Ute:You're wrong about me loving "to come to Utah
threads and stir the pot". The only thing I do is try to reply to negative
comments by some Ute fans that seem off-key and out of context about BYU. If
you actually paid much attention to most of my comments, you'd know
that's pretty much all I do... stick up for BYU when it seems unfairly
dissed by ute fans spouting BYU miscarriages... and nothing more.Please read my comment on the first page of the comments to this article.
That comment was about as civil as a comment could be, by actually wishing Utah
well with the remainder of their season. It has double digit approvals. Any
subsequent comments were simply replies to negative comments by Ute fans. I actually think you are one of the more objective and rational Ute
fans. It's usually people like uteology, azute and of course Chris B that
have tendencies to get overly biased and almost beg BYU to reply to them. You have a great rest of the day. And yes, I sincerely do hope Utah can
salvage the rest of their season.
MountainmanLet's way until after this season before throwing in
the towel on Utah's basketball program. Pretty early to give up on coach K,
it's been two season for gosh sakes.
Hate to say it, but this article is spot on. We have had THREE
years to become competitive in the PAC 12. Ute fans - stop
mentioning the difficult schedule and the week-to-week grind. Those are excuses
for going 8-4; 9-3; not 5-7 (likely TWO years in a row...)The fact
is we are a mediocre/non-factor PAC 12 program. We are the Kansas of the BIG
12, the Illinois of the Big 10; the Kentucky of the SEC; the Wyoming of the MWC.
And the article is right. We are getting worse! It is time for a
change. We are better than 5-7 and maybe sniffing a bowl every few years. We
should be going at least 8-4 every year, going to a decent bowl game, and
occasionally making some national noise. We should be the best team
in the state, hands down. We should dominate BYU every year, not brag about
upsetting (it was an upset) a BYU team every national poll regards as a better
team. Whit needs to go. He just can't hack it in the PAC 12.
No more excuses. And don't get me started on basketball...
Ute fan circa 2010 - Utah can compete with anybodyRealistic fan circa 2010
- Utah isn't good enough to compete in the PACUte fan circa
2013 - Utah isn't good enough to handle the weekly grind of playing in the
PACRealistic fan circa 2013 - See realistic fan 2010
azute1"Even with the enormous disparity in schedules..."spin city, what enormous disparity?BYU's schedule is
ranked #21; Utah's schedule is ranked #4 - only a red-koolaid drinker would
call that an enormous disparity.The truth is, just as in the WAC and
MWC, BYU is just plain better overall.ELEVEN 11-win seasons to two
(3 to 1 in the Bronco/Kyle era)SIXTEEN 10-win seasons to six (5 to 3 in
the Bronco/Kyle era)TWENTY-THREE WAC/MWC conference championships to six
(2 to 1 in the Bronco/Kyle era)SEVENTEEN AP Top 25 finishes to five (4 to
2 in the Bronco/Kyle era)All prove that BYU is simply better than
Utah when it comes to performance over an entire season.Bronco is
2-0 versus Washington; BYU 4-4Kyle is 0-2 versus Washington; Utah 0-8Get over yourselves already. The Utes are just what most objective
observers expected them to be when they joined the PAC - perennial conference
bottom dwellers. Three seasons and you've only beaten one
conference foe with a winning record.Pathetic.
I wouldn't worry about Utah. Utah State and BYU should worry about how they
lose all the time to the Utes.They both would change places with the Utes right
now.The Utes will be fine just going through some growing pains with a great win
over Stanford and normal wins over the Aggies and Cougars.
Wow an article that actually paints a bleak outlook for the Utes. Here's
hoping that BYU & Utah both finish strong and "both" have a bowl
game. "But don't play each other".
levi,Occasionally playing a random PAC 12 team over the course of 8
years is different than playing a complete schedule, week in and week out.
Bleed Blue, You DID play Utah already and got HAMMERED. Deductive
Reasoning notes the final score being a 7 point differential, but at what point
in the second half did you think that the Y was going to win? When were they
leading or in position to win like the Utes were against AZ, UCLA, and OSU.
Never. Utah was never threatened down the stretch and you know it. You had
your chance to prove it on the field and were crushed at home. But hey, you can
always claim victory on the comment boards.
Solomon Levi--Sorry to burst your delusional, crimson bubble, but
Kyle's head-to-head wins prove NOTHING. Even with two losses to the PAC 12
Utes, Bronco still has a better winning percentage versus PAC 12 teams than
Kyle.Bronco - 9-8(53%)Kyle - 12-18(40%)A much as
you may hate to admit it, Bronco has been far more successful against PAC 12
teams than Kyle."Both had success against PAC-10 teams, yet once
we joined the conference, we began playing them in a back-to-back, week-in,
week-out grind w/more total games. This type of schedule is entirely foreign to
byu.Even with the enormous disparity in schedules and the fact
byu's played weaker teams in between games, byu has played six PAC-12 teams
to date and the results are hardly something to be boasting about, sitting
squarely at 2-4. The breakdown--byu's 2 wins came against
teams finishing last in the conf stand -- Only 2 finishing w/winning rec smashed
byu in provo ['13 U's rec still TBD] -- 0-3 against The U.Why not attempt respectability by first scheduling toughest games
back-to-back, then consistently winning them?
ekute"In the PAC 12, BYU would lose at least one more game than
Utah, to Utah."Sorry to burst your delusional, crimson bubble,
but Kyle's head-to-head wins prove NOTHING. Even with two losses to the PAC
12 Utes, Bronco still has a better winning percentage versus PAC 12 teams than
Kyle.Bronco - 9-8(53%)Kyle - 12-18(40%)A much as
you may hate to admit it, Bronco has been far more successful against PAC 12
teams than Kyle.
represent blue and taters,In the PAC 12, byu would lose at least one
more game than Utah, to Utah.
@Bleed CrimsonAs a point of comparison for both Kyle and Bronco in
managing the QB position, compare them to LaVell Edwards:Gifford
Nielsen started his Soph year as a backup, won a championshipGifford
Nielsen went down as a SR, Soph Marc Wilson threw 7 TD's his first start,
won a championshipMarc Wilson went down, Soph Jim McMahon became All-WAC,
won a championshipTy Detmer came off the bench.Other years,
there was sufficient depth to redshirt the heir apparent.Great
coaches know what position on the team is the most important, and start their
Article quote: "And remember that the Utes lost to a 2-10 Buffs team at
Rice-Eccles Stadium in 2011, when a spot in the league title game was on the
line."So can the Utes win when it's really on the line?Apparently not lately.Article quote: "Even if the Utes
get to six wins, the Pac-12 will not be able to accommodate them for a
bowl."Ooooh, that's gotta hurt.Better not show
this article to Utah fans. They still think they're the best team in the
state.(Personally, I'd LOVE to play Utah in OUR bowl game and
crush them like a grape.)
Do they not teach reading comprehension at the U? The article was by an Aggie,
not a Cougar.
Uteology"Gimme game" in Ute parlance - a 7-point win over
BYU not decided until the final play of the game."Close
loss" in Ute parlance - an 11-point loss to Arizona in which the Utes only
lead by a single point until Arizona's next score.The
inconsistency of Utah fans and their spin is hilarious.
TRUTHSalt Lake City, UTIts like a 1970's Ute Dream and
team mantra...........a win over BYU is a winning season in Utelogy's
Book!-------------- Why would our annual gimme game be a
dream victory? This preseason I said if we are a horrible team then
we will win our only 3 gimme games:1. Weber2. BYU3.
@ BigUtahFan"It's pretty bush league to call out
Utah's QB, Head Coach and AD in one article. As a "Die Hard Utah
Utes" fan, I would much rather read a red goggled, homer written article
than this. Please change how you do things DN"I disagree! How
many years now has Kyle Whittingham dealt with QB problems? Ever since the Sugar
Bowl year (5 years ago) Utah has had QB problems. It's unfortunate a
starting QB gets hurt, but the blame should be on Kyle because he hasn't
been able to groom a second string QB to be sufficiently prepared to take over
the offense when he's called upon. That's where Kyle has failed!
It's because of his mismanagement of the QB position which has lead Utah
down the road of mediocrity and now sitting on the brink of a second straight
losing season. As a Utah fan, I'm getting tired of seeing these QB problems
and watching it ruin a promising season. If Utah finishes the season with a
losing record again, It's time to put Whitt on the hot seat.
@TatorsFair Enough. As far as Bias for Utah goes, just a big fan.
Thank goodness for the Seahawks this year. You will notice, unlike your self, I
don't troll the BYU threads. Generally my comments on BYU articles are
brief, supportive and constructive. If that's being "extreme", then
so be it. I find that label odd coming from you though. You love to come on the
Utah threads and stir the pot; much like Chris B. Hey, to each his own. I
don't read Chris B's comments; what's the point? He really seems
to upset Cougar nation though. I will lighten up, and you should follow suit. We
will mix it up, hopefully in a more civil manner, in the future. Have a good
With the exception of the USC game, this has been a really fun season to watch.
The Utes are going toe-to-toe against great competition and have been in every
game but one right to the end. Sure I'd love to have seen a couple more
wins, but I do see competitiveness and improvement. I think that we are on the
right track and still believe the Utes get to six wins. With this schedule and
a young QB, that would be a pretty good accomplishment. Sure we will never be
able to reload like USC or Oregon can right now, but we will have years when we
are good enough to compete for the conference title, and have games like this
year's Stanford game regularly. With BYU getting great teams scheduled and
USU moving up to a better conference and tougher competition, football in the
state is going to just keep getting better.
Its like a 1970's Ute Dream and team mantra...........a win over BYU is a
winning season in Utelogy's Book! Let's hope that those who were
thinking about playing for the Utes...think again, this program is a loser!
First time I've posted on a purely Ute article (go back and check if you
like).We should all agree to save the endless bickering until the
season is over and the teams' bodies of work are in. Then for the month of
January (or April for hoops), the haters can hate, and the losers can whine and
make extravagant claims and comparisons using irrelevant stats from past
seasons. Better yet, Ute fans stop posting on BYU articles, and
Coug fans, leave the trolling to those who can't seem to live life any
@TatorsWho cares? BYU is not in the PAC and it probably never will be.The facts speak for themselves.
@RepresentBlue"WSU is a below .500 team." True. Now one step
further. How many teams would be above .500 playing Auburn, Stanford, Oregon
State, Oregon, Arizona State, USC. and California. (Before you say too much
remember California and Texas are the Y's highest profile games next year
and Cal is ranked below both Colorado and WSU this year.) Also consider WSU
beat USC. Think what the Y will say if they are able to beat USC 10 years from
now when they play each other. Your argument holds water if
consideration is given only to a W or a L and given no weight to the quality of
opponent. This is the position of many fans in Utah; however, the strength of
schedule is becoming even more critical now that a "playoff" approach
will determine the national championship team in the future.
@Mt Rushmore in VAPlease believe me when I say that I will never
call you, ever. I do not troll BYU articles and only comment on them with
respectfull opinions that in no way demean BYU. Your opinion of the status of
the University of Utah and its athletics offer the value of a cup of cold spit.
It is obvious that others think very highly of the academics and athletics on
the hill hence, an invitation to a premier conference. The value of that
championship 30 years ago is self evident (you were probably not even born),
meaningless, today.Now shoo, and do your geography homework on South
@ ekute:To answer your question, yes, BYU would currently be favored
to beat more PAC12 teams than Utah. And certainly more than Utah recently has.
That's why BYU is currently so much higher ranked in the polls than Utah
and at least half of all the other PAC12 teams.History also
vindicates as much. Other than Utah (and unlike Utah), BYU has won most of their
games against PAC12 teams in the past half dozen years or so... We handily
beat Washington State in 2012, Oregon State in 2011, Washington in 2010, Oregon
State again in 2009, both Washington and UCLA in 2008, both Arizona and UCLA in
2007 and both Oregon and Utah in 2006.So the answer to your question
is a definite YES. BYU has been very competitive with PAC12 teams. And based on
their percentage of wins, they definitely could not and would not be considered
a cellar dweller contender, like some other local team has been doing. But
don't take that too personally. The facts speak for themselves.
@ Spokane Ute:Your extreme bias for Utah combined with their huge
fall since the Stanford game seems to be making you quite cantankerous and
ornery.Chris B was mentioned because he's the only Ute fan that seems
to be even more extreme than you and writes in on more articles... both BYU and
Utah than anyone... though you're a fairly close second. The
"mark it down" comment was made in jest because it's so funny that
chris B uses it to the extreme and ends up with egg on his face more often than
not. It's not so "curious" when that's mentioned, unless
you're seeing things with blinders on. Timing is everything when critiquing
games. Chris is constantly setting himself up. Even most Ute fans roll their
eyes at him. Don't take it so personally that BYU fans do still have
an interest in what's currently happening while some ute fans apparently
have nothing left to do but huff and puff and jab at other people's
monikers. Lighten up a bit.For the record, like most other BYU fans, I
seldom take your comments very seriously, either.
81Ute"During the reign of the BCS system the measure of
excellence" - sorry, but no defining measurement exists; there are numerous
examples of BCS bowl participants who had absolutely no business even playing in
an elite bowl - see Pittsburgh(2004) and Hawaii(2007).The true
measure of excellence in every era since the polls began in 1936 is being ranked
higher at the end of the season, with #1 being the highest measure of
excellence.BYU did that in 1984, finishing #1 AP and #1 Coaches.Utah has never finished higher than #2 AP and #4 Coaches.Rankings
are a measure of success versus schedule.How else do you explain
teams with better records being ranked lower than teams with worse records?Call us when Utah finishes #1 in one of the polls and we'll discuss
SOS.btw, Utah's SOS: 2004 - #67; 2008 - #56BYU's toughest SOS's: 2004 - #11; 2003 - #14; 2013 - #21Utah's toughest SOS's: 2013 - #4; 2012 - #41; 2011 - #49
truthsandwichUnfortunately for U, one game does not a season
make.Bronco has finished ahead of Kyle in record and ranking in 5 of
the 8 seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era; soon to be 6 of 9.Overall
record and ranking trumps individual game success; always has and always will -
see Alabama versus Texas A&M last year and Stanford versus Utah this year as
just a couple of examples out of literally thousands.btw, 14 of the
last 17 BYU-Utah games have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing
minutes or in overtime, including three of the last four - hardly proof of
head-to-head domination by either team.If you want to see what true
head-to-head domination really looks like, see BYU-Utah 1972 to 1991; Utah
versus Washington, lifetime; or Utah versus Arizona State, lifetime.Don't even bother with Utah's pre-Cambrian era domination when Utah
was nothing more than a mediocre team beating up on even more mediocre teams in
conferences that don't even exist today.
@ekuteKeep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about
being the doormat of the PAC-12 along with Colorado. Head to head record aside,
BYU would do no worse in the PAC-12 than Utah has done, the only difference
would be that you wouldn't see BYU fans putting PAC-12 logos on everything
@RepresentBlueThe PAC12 does offer tough competition it is difficult
to be favored every game. However, Utah is usually favored and usually wins
against the might cougs.
@Mt Rushmore in Virginia1. Isn't there something in VA that you can
nickname after?2. During the reign of the BCS system the measure of
excellence is BCS participation, only those that couldn't get in argue
otherwise.3. Whoa! Top 15 and still only played in the Vegas, NM, and
Hungry bowls - I stand corrected, the cougs have all the credibility in the
world.4. Lots of wins against poor competition is only of value to fans of
teams that win lots of games against poor copmetition.5. AP rankings, see
#36. Nobody cares about your opinion regarding 2004, the truth is Utah was
invited to the big money bowl and a perfect season.7. BYU football is
irrelevent to everybody but BYU fans.
RepresentBlue,We'll keep drinking that "Pac-12
kool-aid" and enjoy it, knowing that it's to strong for byu and
it's fans. Would a perennial loser to Utah be favored vs any team in the
One thing that is concerning to me is that Erickson's offenses in the
Pac-10 or Pac-12 have always struggled in the second half of the season.I
hope he can get things improved but usually at ASU his teams especially the
offenses started strong then struggled halfway through the season.That
said I think the Utes have a decent shot this weekend.They seem to perform
a ton better at home than on the road.
RSLfanalways"I am surprised I have not heard any comments saying
that: Ute's beat all the other Utah teams so Ute's are still the
best."Does the obvious need to be stated for you?
I've always thought BYU or Utah would have a much tougher time playing a
decent stable of teams like in the PAC. So no stone-casting from this BYU fan. I
respect Utah for having EARNED their way into a BCS conference by going to and
winning 2 BCS bowls in the last decade. How many of those have we won??
@TatorsNice job of grouping all Utah fans as "Chris B". I
also find it funny when BYU fans only reference to an extreme fan is Chris B.
BYU has a ton of fans, with the same M.O. Heck look at this thread; and even in
the mirror. BYU fans, trolling Utah articles, and busting on the Utes. It's
become the norm, and the only defense is "what about Chris B?" The funny
thing about the whole "mark it down" deal, is that's all I heard
before Utah's Stanford and BYU games. After the game? Dead silence. Now
that's curious. It must really be frustrating to lose to your bitter rival
over, and over, and over, and over again. You make it somewhat challenging to
pull for BYU, but then again, how serious can you take someone named Tators?
@Who am I sir?"All that remains is a game against the number 2
ranked team in the country, a game against another top 25 team, and finally two
games against respectable PAC-12 opponents (and Utah might(!) be favored in one
of them.)"Keep drinking that PAC-12 kool-aid, but WSU is a below
.500 team and Colorado has been one of the worst teams in Div. 1 football for
years now. That must be the opponent that Utah might(!) be favored against
(because it's at RES!).
Beat writers get paid to produce objective material, not biased gibberish.
Boorish attempt, Mr. Wilkinson.The focus should be on the Utes
getting their confidence back. The same confidence that led to wins over
Stanford, USU, and byu. Travis Wilson has played injured, but has also looked
lost at times the past few games. Here's to hoping that the Utes can start
and end a season with one gunslinger in 2014...!
@Rockwell"See how when you compare oranges to oranges, Bronco
out performs Kyle?"LOL at "teams with winning
records"Winning records? Against whom?Bronco Vs.
Kyle in the past 4 years: 0-4Kyle Vs. Bronco in the past 4 years: 4-0See how when you don't cherry-pick stats, Kyle out performs Bronco?
@ Spokane Ute:How can you say not to bother marking it down when the
Ute's touted leader, Chris B, is constantly admonishing us all to "mark
it down"?And how can you say that nobody cares? I guarantee you
that after 5 wins a row, all BYU fans are now caring more than ever. But
after what's been happening to Utah lately, I can totally understand the
recent plethora of apathy creeping in... and just not caring anymore... at least
on the hill. But hey, there's always next year (2014) and a
whole new chance to try to qualify for a bowl game... like the most recent one
Utah was able to qualify for back in 2011.
@ WorfActually the best case would be for both teams to win, of
course. Don't bother marking it down; nobody cares.
Worse case situation this Saturday:Wisconsin 24BYU
17Utah 17Arizona State 7Won't happen,
but can you imagine the resurgence of ute fans?Everything will be
81Ute"BYU had the exact same advantages as TCU and Utah and
failed miserably in the MWC."Explain how THREE 11-win, Top 15
finishes in the last 8 seasons is "failing miserably".That's more 11-win seasons for BYU during the Bronco/Kyle era, than the
Utes have had in their ENTIRE HISTORY.Explain how FOUR AP Top 25
finishes in a row (from 2006 to 2009) is "failing miserably".That's TWICE as many AP Top 25 finishes in succession for Bronco as the
Utes have had in their ENTIRE HISTORY.Despite the obsession on the
hill, BCS bowl participation isn't the sole measure of major college
football success and even in terms of BCS bowls, the Utes only had one truly
successful season, 2008.2004 was a farce. Seriously. "Busting
the BCS" by only beating three teams with winning records (all 7-5) while
playing the 67th toughest SOS? And then beating a "BCS bowl" opponent
that was barely ranked in ONE poll.
Here's some evidence that debunks your evidence:Versus PAC 12
teamsBronco: 9-8(53%)Kyle: 12-18(40%)Versus BCS teamsBronco: 15-15(50%)Kyle: 21-20(51%)Wins versus teams with
winning recordsBronco: 31Kyle: 28Losses versus teams
with losing recordsBronco: 5Kyle: 6Conference
championshipsBronco: 2Kyle: 1See how when you compare
oranges to oranges, Bronco out performs Kyle?LOL at how you have to
piggy-back off of TCU in order to feel good about yourself. TCU had a nice
little run going for awhile, but, just like the Utes, the Horned Frogs have
faded considerably in the last couple of years, and it isn't simply a
matter of increased SOS. The Frogs only beat miserable Kansas by 10 points AT
HOME and TCU was beaten AT HOME 23-37 by extremely mediocre Iowa St(6-7) in
I am surprised I have not heard any comments saying that: Ute's beat all
the other Utah teams so Ute's are still the best.
Okay...so a negative article written by some Aggie. Yay! Our offensive problems
come from a beat up hand and a sprained index finger. TW has no touch on the
ball because he's not healthy. It's pretty bush league to
call out Utah's QB, Head Coach and AD in one article. As a "Die Hard
Utah Utes" fan, I would much rather read a red goggled, homer written
article than this. Please change how you do things DN
What a season! Not what I expected - Not what I had hoped for! Nevertheless
what a great season.Consider: Utah's schedule ranked from 5th to
14th toughest. Winning the non conference games. Then conference. (A
conference ranked 2nd best in the country). Our only win to date was against
the then ranked number 5 team in the country. (Stanford currently ranked 6th.)
An overtime loss to a team either ranked or receiving votes throughout the year
(Oregon State). Lost to nationally ranked UCLA. Losses to USC and Arizona both
ranked or receiving votes consistently throughout the year.Where do we
stand now? All that remains is a game against the number 2 ranked team in the
country, a game against another top 25 team, and finally two games against
respectable PAC-12 opponents (and Utah might(!) be favored in one of them.)Do I love the PAC-12 membership? Yes! Not only yes but yes!I would
not have been happy to know months in advance that we would go to a bowl and to
which bowl. With the only surprises to date a win over Texas and losses to
Virginia and Utah.Four games to go - can't wait!
Intersting, many more comments by the haters of Utes that are of a 'higher
standard' than by Ute fans. @UteanymousSeriously? BYU
had the exact same advantages as TCU and Utah and failed miserably in the MWC.
Only one time were they seriously considered for BCS invitation and an injury to
a single player (Luke Staley) dashed all hopes. You can huff and puff all you
want, you can get your 10 wins against mediocre competition, and you can
'what if' your life away. Nobody cares. BYU isn't in the
drivers seat for anything regarding college football and nobody cares.
@ Uteology:Uteanymous was referring to the current BYU and Utah
teams... not the ones from last decade or even several years ago. Same reference
about who is currently playing in the NFL. Those guys are all from teams of the
past. Truth of the matter is that this year BYU did manhandle the
Texas team that is currently leading the Big 12 with a 5-0 conference record.
They also handily beat Boise State this year... something Utah or USU have never
been able to do... ever. And for icing on the cake, they are the only team to
beat Houston this year (on the road, no less)... a team that is also leading
their conference. Even though you are known as a hardcore Ute fan,
it's okay to occasionally give some credit where credit is due... even if
it happens to be to your rival. And right now, BYU does deserve some credit
after their 5th win in a row. And if Utah wins this Saturday, I will be
one of the first to give them credit for bouncing back.
It's too bad that Wilson got the laceration injury in his hand. That can
really mess a QB up, both in the physical mechanics in what they do, and also
mentally in being able to trust your offensive line and those that are supposed
to protect you. It certainly does mess with your head. Travis is a good QB, as
I witnessed when he beat my Cougs a few games ago.This article is
exaggerating a bit because that's what sportwriters do to get readers
interested. Utah has every chance in the world to become bowl eligible. ASU at
home is a good thing. U might not win, but I expect it will be close. Oregon
is a bad thing no matter where it happens this year. WSU and CU--U got to win
these, and I think U will. Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl will choose Utah when it is
their turn to pick, so there is a bowl game waiting for you in San Francisco.
Oregon and Stanford go to BCS games this year, so this is a very likely
UteanymousSalt Lake City, UtahOh wait, Patterson after going
77-13... is 10-12 in the Big 12."With a blow out loss to Texas,
30-7, a team BYU dominated 40-21.More evidence that BYU would be
more competitive in the Big 12 or PAC 12 than the Utes have been.Let's face it, the TCU and Utah teams of the mid-2000's have
tanked.-------------Mid 2000s? TCU was 11-2 in 2011 and
13-0 #2 in 2010.Here's some more evidence:* BYU vs.
Big 5 teams: 2-2* BYU is 0-8 against both teams* TCU and
Utah have better talent than BYU according to the NFL Yes I can see
how BYU would be more competitive with lesser talent in tougher leagues.
Obviously, the Utes head to head domination of byu football hurts the DN writers
as much as it hurts the byu "fans". Go Utes!
Interesting points made by Mr. Wilkinson. Weird how 6 weeks ago it seemed to be
HILARIOUS to ute fans to see a QB with a passer rating in the 30's, yet now
I don't hear ANY of them them laughing. Oh wait -- it was only funny when
it was a BYU QB. Got it.
"Where will the Utes’ mentality be after falling to ASU and getting
crushed by the Ducks?"Finally some respect for the Devils. The
utes would be a lot more tolerable if they'd act this way year round.
Looking at the remaining Utah schedule it's interesting because both
Washington St and Colorado could need their games against Utah to become bowl
eligible themselves. It will be a war of wills and quarterbacks.
You can choose to be optimistic or depressed, I choose optimism. Go Utes!
RBNShooting the messenger?Best case scenario for Utah:
beat ASU, stay within 3 touchdowns of Oregon, beat WSU and Colorado to finish
7-5 and play BYU in the Fight Hunger BowlWorst case scenario for
Utah: get blown out by ASU, get curb-stomped by Oregon, lose at WSU, tank season
finale at home to Colorado to finish 4-8Likely scenario: lose to
ASU, get stomped by Oregon, beat WSU and Colorado, to finish 6-6 and play
Wyoming in the New Mexico Bowlbtw, I haven't seen any recent
bowl projections that include the Utes.
Utah with three years of PAC12 recruiting is what it is. Utah is a very
dangerous team on occasion, but unable to sustain winning week to week. I
believe that Utah will compete with three of the four teams left on the
schedule. They should beat Colorado. Should. What they do for the rest of
this season will be determined this Saturday. Take down Arizona State
(hopefully in a blizzard) and the Utes will make a bowl.
If Utah plays like they did against Arizona from here on out, no bowl game for
sure. It will probably come down to the WSU game; but nothing is a given at this
point. A win against ASU would be HUGE, but I'm not holding my breath.
Either way, I"m hoping hope for the best.GO UTES!>---->
Break out the whiny SOS excuses again.
Oh wait, Patterson after going 77-13... is 10-12 in the Big 12."With a blow out loss to Texas, 30-7, a team BYU dominated 40-21.More evidence that BYU would be more competitive in the Big 12 or PAC 12 than
the Utes have been.Let's face it, the TCU and Utah teams of the
mid-2000's have tanked.
Face it playing in the big leagues isn't easy. And Utah isn't ready
for the big time. They will roll around the bottom of the PAC for decades.
Look at asu and Arizona who both had better programs when they left the WAC.
Maybe by 2035, eh Utah.
We won byu and are in a bcs conference so that makes us awsome. It dont matter
if we will be watching byu play a bowl game on tv because we won them anyways
and Kyle gets our team up to win them every year.
WOW blistering article Chris what do you Think about it?
Maybe we can fire Kyle and pick up Gary Patterson from TCU?Oh wait,
Patterson after going 77-13 in the MWC with:* Six 11 wins seasons
(in 7 total seasons)* 4 MWC titles* 2 BCS bowls* 1 BCS bowl
win* 6 ranked teams (3 in the top 10)is 10-12 in the Big 12.
How much longer will Kyle have a job?
This article seems to be written with the purpose of attacking the Utah program.
It seems to be out of line calling for Kyle Whittingham's job. It is
clearly written by a pro BYU fan/journalist with an agenda. Unprofessional
There are a long list of negatives about the Utes in this article. I actually
feel quite sorry for them and most of their fans. It's a bit more difficult
with Chris B and a few other hardcore anti-BYU Ute fans who laid it on so thick
when BYU was struggling early season and still couldn't (can't) give
any credit when they got things turned around.It's tempting to
play that same tit-for-tat game now. It would be very easy to do under the
current circumstances. But I've decided to take a higher road and wish the
Utes well in being able to salvage whatever they can with the remainder of their
season. Kyle is a good coach (who does seem to have BYU's number) and there
are some good people on his team. Good luck with the rest of the season.
What's the point? Even if the Utes manage to qualify for a
bowl, the best they can hope for will be a berth in the New Mexico Bowl against
a team like Wyoming - that'll really get juices flowing for Utah fans.
Whittingham is about to be McBrided - but he'll love it at Weber, and it
will be a better fit for him.