@louie Though I agree that UHSAA did the right thing by sticking to the
ref's decision and I agree that Olympus is most likely the best team in
region 7, I disagree that the coin toss rule is a "kick in the teeth"
for Olympus. The coin flip rule leaves no room for interpretation. If there was
a clearly better option then they would have changed it. Though other states do
this, I would be against going off of the overall record or points scored or
something similar because it would encourage times to do things like play easier
non-region teams or give non-starters less play time. Playing for seeding like
when someone wouldn't make the playoffs would be a reasonable option in my
opinion.You earn the number one seed by having the best record in
the region. Olympus didn't earn the number one seed because they
didn't beat Corner Canyon. Olympus, Orem, and Corner Canyon all earned the
number 3 seed. Because nobody earned the number one or two seeds, they flipped a
coin to see who they would give them to and this time chance seems to have got
I understand everyone from Logan saying Nelson is not a dirty player - but
isn't it interesting that both fouls committed were AFTER he scored a
touchdown. His first TD he kicked a player in the helmet and the second TD he
kicked a player in the throat. NOT DIRTY? When these two teams met earlier in
the year he received a personal foul for throwing the football at the helmet of
a bountiful player AFTER he scored a TD also. Am I the only one seeing a
pattern here?Shame on him and his coaches for not being able to
control this arrogance. He is a great player, but part of the game is being a
good sport. He needs to take a look at himself and recognize this. I only hope
he realizes this while he sits the sideline for the next game.All of
you who are trying to justify his action by saying he lost his balance and it
didn't warrant a penalty? You are all enabling his behavior. I understand
you want your local team to continue on but let it be on the boys merits not
thru others justifying and twisting the truth.
Has anyone seen the remarks from Favero in the SL Trib article, the excuse for
the kick? An MCL tear. Coach, an MCL tear most likely would've happened
on the tackle or in the motion of the tackle in this instance, and wouldn't
that be immediate pain and cause the kick then, rather than a kick from Nelson
occurring while he stands up? You can tell that the coach was looking for any
excuse (he knew Nelson deliberately kicked the kid) to try and get the
suspension overturned by having a specialist throw in "neurological
reaction" for the kick. Never ending story of coaches on top tier teams.
@joedirt - UHSAA stuck to their bylaws. Congratulations UHSAA, you have gained
a previously wavering supporter from this action. Although you hate to set
precedent on a key player, you stuck to the rules. In addition. Those of you
who have seen the youtube/hudl submission, it does not show the sequence very
well. Fox 13 News had a cameraman at the back of the endzone, right behind
Nelson and showed the clip on the news. It shows in clarity a deliberate kick,
not a stumbling catch your balance kick, but an intentional kick. There are no
debating that video. I wish I could find the link to it.
If the UHSAA reverses the officials ruling it will be another "kick in the
teeth" for Olympus. They had to abide by the UHSAA policy in the selection
of a no. 1 seed in their region when there is a three-way tie (the out-dated
coin flip). Olympus was 9-1 the other two teams were 5-5, no-never mind the
overall records or or point totals in head-to-head games, where Olympus would
have clearly been the no.1 seed. Instead they are no. 3 seed and get to play
two road games.
When all of the details about what really went on come out, a lot of people
eager to end a high school kid's football season on speculation are going
to look very petty.To those with an open mind, if the circumstances
seem strange, well, there may just be a strange reason...
If the UHSAA goes through with this appeal they have lost all credibility with
me! My son just went through this whole process and the UHSAA said, "We go
with the word of our official and his report, very rarely do we even review an
appeal, let alone overturn a ruling." Yet, my son paid his dues, took his
punishment, and sat out. But it will be interesting to see what will happen to
an undefeated program with an impact player. My kid is just as important to his
team! And sorry folks, but a rule is a rule.... STICK BY IT UHSAA (Oh and be
sure he sits through the online Sportsmanship/Anger class and receives his
certificate as well.... :)
Report coming out of KVNU - a Cache Valley news stateion has stated that UHSAA
does not expect to re-instate Nelson for the upcoming game against Logan.
@wiseacre You are correct that the players can't appeal the ejection but
you will also note that the officials must call and fax in a report within 24
hours of the end of the game. I believe that the player can't appeal the
suspension but that doesn't mean it isn't reviewed by the committee.
And that is both to be fair to the officials and the players. I don't
believe it is lack of support for the officials if it is overridden anymore than
a booth review of a play in College or Professional Football is.
The author of this article wrote:"The ejection came on
Nelson’s second whistled personal foul. On the play he made a
non-malicious kicking motion in the direction of a defender clinging to his
lower body after he had reached the end zone. There was no resultant physical
contact on the play."Fox 13 just showed footage of the incident
- from a condemning angle. The Bountiful defender was on his hands and knees
getting up. He did not have a hold of the QB's leg. The QB kicked him in
the face mask, which was facing the ground. Despite Mr. Phibb's attempt to
gain sympathy for the QB, the angle showed that it was a malicious kick. If the state has this footage, the young man will sit out against
Olympus. This is a great lesson on the importance of poise. @slcftball - my bad. However, being an East supporter isn't a bad thing.
They are flat out the best team in the state.
Re wstfbkingNot an East supporter. I have some integrity
@CVMD - good analysis. It's crazy some people really believe there should
be a zero tolerance, no review approach that automatically upholds the
suspension because of the rules. Just like zero tolerance policies that lead to
the suspension of a stellar high school student because he had a fillet knife in
his tackle box, in his vehicle on school grounds. Zero tolerance and no
reconsideration is a zero common sense approach. Hopefully the UHSAA consists
of more reasonable minds.
This is like throwing a kid out who loses his balance, puts his hand out to
steady himself then calling it a punch. I have looked at this many times on
HUDL frame by frame. Go look yourself. Chase is getting helped up by his own
players, loses his balance falling backward and the left foot comes up, maybe
brushing 84 maybe not even making contact. Try an experiment: get
pushed hard backwards with one leg down and see if you can keep the other from
coming forward a little. I can't. It is reflexive, like putting out a hand
when you stumble.Chase is looking to his right, not even down at the
player at his feet. The officials making the call are behind and to the side,
completely screened by surrounding Logan players, out of position to see what
is going on. They see a foot come up though. The officials in front don't
see anything other than a player getting helped up and do not throw a flag.
They all did their best.A bad call, part of the game, frustrating,
and more. A kick? Nope. UHSAA is now suspending for losing balance and having
Just watched the video... Are you kidding me! If players have to be accountable
for their actions, then these referee's should have to be for theirs. Make
these refs sit down, watch the video with this kid, his parents and coaches.
Then explain to him why he was kicked out, and why they decided to possibly end
his high school career this way. Any reasonable person that watches this video
will wonder what in the world these ref's had up their sleeve's. BTW,
not a Logan parent, former student or former player. Just a fan of high school
sports. Wow!! Hopefully clearer heads will prevail.
@slcftballYour Leopards stand to gain the most if the kid sits out.
Great season, btw
@papi_chuloTimpview forfeited all games that the ineligible players
played in. They still made the playoffs legitimately without special treatment.
They then had to play Logan and East as a lower seed and beat them both on the
way to the state championship.I hope the Logan quarterback gets to
play. If I were the opponent next week, I would want to play Logan at full
kid needs to keep his cool. he brought it on himself. most smart players after
getting one penalty, would be careful. he should know better, especially with
Riley running up and down the sidelines like a Wildman.
@slcftball - -if your understanding of the handbook states(I have not read the
handbook)no appeal of player ejections, than I would think it's a done
deal. If UHSAA does overrule the handbook, they AGAIN open up a pandora's
box and I would think an independent group should do a complete review of the
UHSAA. Their inability to stand strong is causing their own demise. And I
wouldn't overlook Olympus, Logan's 10-0 schedule wasn't that
Wow if you think both should be UNSPORTSMANLIKE under the rules every time they
get a little pushy after a play half the kids would be ejected from the game.
Personally I can't see anything on the film from this angle. I suspect
both fouls spoken of by the youtube guys that both fouls were UNSPORTSMANLIKE,
not a mixture of PF's and USL.
@Prep Fan 89 the rule I pulled directly from the NFHS website publications.Like I said 2 personal fouls DO NOT eject a player not do 10, just poor
reporting by the reporter in this case. He should have reports it as ONE USL as
opposed to TWO PF's. ONE UnSportsmanLike will eject a player. Officials
VERY often call a TRUE unsportsmanlike as a personal foul thus going against the
rules as written. A kick or punch rather it is landed or not have the same
intent in the rule... Fighting.
Something similar happened a few years ago at Dixie vs Bonneville in state
playoffs. Dixie's QB was ejected for supposed punch. One of the official
simply made a bad judgement call. The other 4 officials asked for a review by
UHSAA. The UHSAA reviewed several tapes submitted and over ruled the ejection.
The officiating crew has the power to ask for a review of the
ejection, not the player, coach or school. If the officiating crew asks for a
review I am sure that they will review it.
@papi chollo - Two contrasting issues at play between what happened with East
and what is happening at Logan. East's was a result of administration
messing up paperwork and affecting the players, not the players wrongdoing.
Logan's issue is a direct result of the actions of a player. UHSAA will
look at Logan's differently. But by all means go and raise a hissy fit at
UHSAA and continue to follow the footsteps of many other parent's in
Utah... "my kid has been wronged", "my kid is special", "my
kid would never do anything like that". Sheesh, so tired of whining
Two officials threw their flags simultaneously, so that tells me that something
obvious was recognized by the officials. I looked at the film, and it does not
look like the Bntfl player was holding on to Nelson's leg. It also does not
look like a kick, but a knee to shoulder - plus presumably verbal from Nelson
which also warrants an unsportsmanlike flag. So with that said, even if it was
not something physical it could be something verbal that Nelson said.
Interestingly enough, the Bntfl player raised his hand like "that should be
a flag". Point is, something unsportsmanlike occurred and was flagged.
From what @the official call is saying, the onus could be on the officials if
UHSAA talks to them. Do these officials then have the guts to stand by their
call? The only reason this is a big deal, is 1) it's Logan who is a
powerhouse and 2)it's a Nelson
@TheOfficialCall - If you as officials know that a kid can be ejected for an
unsportsmanlike call, then you call it a personal foul in that situation.
Understand the game and what is going on. That is where my beef lies, they had a
chance to huddle up and discuss it. Throw another personal foul, and let Coach
Favero know "if it happens again we will have no choice but to eject your QB
which means he would be out next week too." If your posting on
the rule is indeed accurate (personal foul vs. unsportsmanlike) then this is way
more ridiculous than I originally thought! Nelson should be on the field next
They better let him play next week like they did last year for EAST and TIMPVIEW
when they had blatantly cheated and got caught doing it. If they don't let
him play, I am staging a protest at the UHSAA offices just like all those EAST
boys did last year when they rolled out the fake tears and said, PLEASE let us
play, we know we cheated, but we are such a good team cause we cheated. They
got their way and Nelson better get to play next week or the UHSAA better watch
I just watched it, thank you for sharing loganfan. That penalty is
ridiculous. If Nelson is held out next week by the UHSAA or their officiating
guru, this will be a grave injustice!
The 'kick' happened getting off a late end zone tackler who refused to
let go. Chase fell backwards a little getting up and his foot came forward when
his own player pulled him up further. Very meager, inadvertent contact did
happen. But this is football not debate. There was no kick by any definition
that I am aware of. Hopefully the HUDL film will be available. Most watching
thought the flag was on the Bountiful kid for not letting him up. It should
have been a no call because no foul appears to have taken place. The first flag
was for an end zone celebration that can't be seen despite being filmed.
Funny sort of celebrating. If ever a suspension should be overturned, this one
is it.The process is in place to review the official's call and it should
be used. Review programs in the NFL and NCAA do not undermine officiating, but
promote fairness and integrity to the rules of the game. Officials, even good
ones, make bad calls. It is part of the game. Logan overcame the bad call.
But it is wrong to extend the penalty for a bad call over 2 games.
There is video of the altercation as the coaches reviewed it at half time. The
play was described by people who saw that tape as @THEOFFICIALCALL speculated
the person doing the tackling held on long after the play was over and Chase
Nelson was trying to kick his leg free it was more of an appearance of him
kicking the player than actually trying to kick the player. I don't fault
the officials for the call if it looked like he was kicking him but I am glad
there is a review process if there is video proof it wasn't what it
appeared to be.@slcftball The first unsportsmanlike penalty was for
taunting (pointing the football at the player who missed the tackle after the
play) not kicking and stomping on a players face mask. And unless you know what
your talking about your speculation is way out of line. I hope the review
process talks to the coach of Bountiful and the kid that supposedly got kicked
and they review the film.
I don't want to argue with anyone on this issue but I would ask that before
you make comments on this that you would watch the footage of the incident.
It's on you tube, Logan Bountiful game filmed by the Valley Channel. It
happens at about minute 55. Watch and then judge. There is no stomping. I
can't even see a kick. Just Chase hopping up after a tackle. The first
penalty was personal foul (this was on an earlier touchdown). The second one
which resulted in the ejection was called unsportsmanlike. Several officials
throw flags so maybe there is more than we can see, it just seems that it was a
harsh punishment for the actions that we can see on the tape. I don't know
all the rules and I wasn't on the field when it happened so what do I know?
Maybe those with more football knowledge can weigh in after watching it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nelson plays next week, the UHSAA has no bite,
and will cave into the pressure. Ex...East 2012!What I don't
understand is the blame on the ref's....like they had control over Nelson
from kicking a player, or receiving "two" personal foul calls. Kicking
should be the same penalty as throwing a punch, and not accepted by the coaching
staff, the refs, or UHSAA.Nelson is the leader of the team, and I
understand competitive issues. But you have to be able to control those
emotions, even if Bountiful held, pinched, or twisted his legs. I would be
shocked if he is not on the field next week....and applaud the UHSAA for
standing by its rules if he doesn't.An old coach told
me...."only we can mess this run up!"....Logan might find this out next
We as officials could really careless about the UHSAA rule, the fact a player
gets a couple of PF's we start watching him/her more closely, because once
or twice dirty, usually means it is happening more frequently. Give a player 2
or 3 big 15-yd and let the coach know our eyes are on him, the coach will remove
him/her because they are too risky to remain in the game and rightfully so, they
could eventually hurt someone. We get tired of focusing our attention on one
player.@ Wiseacre, getting together on a 5 man crew I am sure is
what happened, but I would say only 2 maybe 3 may have saw it, Officials have
areas of coverage and you are not aways looking at the ball carrier.@Temp I am sure you would be they next to say the ref's need to control
the game more closely or someone is going to get hurt.@slcftball,
Interesting about your knowledge from the logan person. If a fan thinks it was
bad, then it must have been. In the first half none-the-less.If he
is playing Friday I wouldn't be surprised.
Given my screen name I officiate a UHSAA sport. These officials will get a call
from the Supervisor of Officials who will ask them if there was anything they
could have done "differently", Is there a way you could have kept
him/her in the game. It has happen to me and many an official I know personally.
The rule as stated doesn't not mention "malicious". In
my opinion and this happens in games that a tackler hangs on a little to long to
the legs of the ball carrier and the ball carrier gets a little "testie"
and try to kick his was free. This sounds like what happen. I have a hard time
understanding what really happen because the reporter doesn't sound like he
knows the difference between a personal foul and an Unsportsmanlike foul. A
player can have many, 5+ plus personal fouls in a game and that would not be a
cause for ejection, where as ONE "Unsportsmanlike foul" results in an
EJECTION. So when the reports says nothing malicious happen that is hard for me
to have much faith in the statement.
I did not see the game, but if the kick was really "not malicious" as
the article states, then refs need to swallow their whistles! I hate refs that
feel a need to be a bigger part of a football game than they should be. It
happens far too often.
Not true. If you read the handbook, it says any player ejections cannot be
appealed.A coaches ejection may be appealed, but a players not. I think
he is done. But if he gets two penalties in the first half for kicking kids on
the ground and stomping on their facemasks then he should sit-just sayin. My
cousin is a Logan supporter and he said that's what he did and is worried.
Olympus is getting lucky. First a win against a bad Sville team now this. But
I guess the UHSAA caved on that debacle with East last year so in realty, who
really knows with the weak UHSAA. When do they decide?
@The Official Call - -you are right, the UHSAA has overruled before, but
that's the problem, they do not hold a hardline to their own bylaws and
that is why everyone has no trust in the UHSAA. And because they do not hold
strong to their bylaws, teams walk all over them and circumvent the rules. This
will be interesting and potentially give UHSAA credibility if they make the
right call, which is upholding the bylaws and supporting their officials.
Another point on the call at this game - - an ejection is severe and if that was
the case, wouldn't all officials on the field have to concur that an
ejection would be warranted or the unsportsmanlike call was worthy of an
ejection? My thought is if the act in question that resulted in the ejection
was discussed amongst officials(of which it was) it could've been
overturned at the game.
@Seen Enough, Yes it will be reviewed.@Wiseacre, couldn't agree
moreIt was not two penalties that got him ejected it was the one
sole act of kicking. Here be the two rules in question.Rule2-1Fighting is any attempt by a player or nonplayer to strike or engage a player
or nonplayer in a combative manner unrelated to football. Such acts include, but
are not limited to, attempts to strike an opponent(s) with the arm(s), hand(s),
leg(s) or foot (feet), whether or not there is contact.Rule 9-4-1ART. 1 . . . No player or nonplayer shall fight.PENALTY: Fighting,
intentionally contacting a game official, striking, kicking or kneeing. (Arts.
1, 2, 3j) – (S38- 47) – 15 yards and disqualification.Rule 2. Defines what fighting is and an attempted kick is regarded as
fighting.Rule 9-4-1, says you can't fight and the penalty for such is
15 yards and ejection.The UHSAA has the about the one game
suspension.Back to Wiseacre's comment's, The UHSAA very
often over-rules the ruling on the game officials. Wouldn't be surprised
to see him on the field next week.
There is an appeal and review process. Generally, the UHSAA will uphold the
suspension unless there are extenuating circumstances. But there is a due
process and at times calls or decisions get reversed. Looking at game film will
be part of that process...
The appeal process is part of the rule so that a review can be made by UHSAA.
If the two penalties are upheld as accurate, then Chase should sit out one game
for his actions. Sometimes officials get it wrong in the heat of the moment and
so a review is necessary. The same goes for an athlete where sometimes good
people do dumb things in the heat of the moment. The decision must
be based on the facts and accuracy of the calls not on who the penalty was made
against. I hope UHSAA has access to video to perhaps help with the decision
rather than just going off of opinions.
UHSAA must uphold the decision of THEIR officials. Anything contrary to this
would demonstrate that the UHSAA does not support THEIR officials. Regardless
of intent or degree of intent by player, the official made the call...enough
said. Rule is: an ejection results in a one game suspension. We can't
review every missed call, every bad call by the officials and go back and change
them. It's unfortunate it happened to a great player that everyone whoops
and hollers about, but rules are rules and they apply to all players.
This needs to be looked at to get it right. Chase Nelson is a high character
kid and Logan High has not had a ejection in the 15 years Mike Faverro has
coached there. The two calls were VERY questionable especially for a kid who
has no track record of acting out. Hope they can take a look at it and make the
right call. Hope to see Chase Nelson competing on the field again next week. GO