jarka-rus,Kind of like how Stanford destroyed Utah?Oh
ASU is going to absolutely destroy the Utes
MountainMan:Wow, a ute fan that understands the circumstances Utah finds
themselves in. There are many ute fans that see the writing on the wall and
acknowledge the difficult future they face. As a BYU fan who doesn't hate
Utah (just some of their obnoxious fans) and wants to see the utes succeed,
it's refreshing to hear an unbiased and thoughtful assessment of
Utah's program.I've often wondered what the magical number
is for Utah in terms of how long we have to wait before the utes are
consistently competitive. It's been 3 years now, and recruiting is on 4
years (and this is the worst recruiting class Utah has had since joining the
PAC12). At what point do we decide that hovering around .500 and seeking 6 wins
for a bowl is going to be the norm for Utah? If things were trending up I would
think differently, but everything from wins/losses to recruiting seems to be
trending down for the utes right now. If Utah were a stock I would be hollering
"sell, sell sell". Hope we're wrong and things change, but I
wouldn't bet the farm on it.
"But I'll take a team that actually has proven that it can beat top 10
teams even if they're inconsistent over a team that has no ability to beat
top 10 teams anyday.Still proud of this team. The future is bright
for this program."I'm pretty sure you are just trolling;
there is no way you are this optimistic about the current state of our program.
We are 1-4 in our THIRD year of PAC 12 play. Did you expect to be at the bottom
of the conference three years in? The Stanford win was awesome, but
there is nothing to suggest this was anything more than a strong Stanford team
in a trap game against a relatively weak opponent while looking forward to a big
game the following week (UCLA, in this case). Happens all the time. As much as
I wish it meant "Utah can hang with the big boys," the embarrassing
losses to Arizona (Arizona!) and USC's walk-ons proved otherwise. Do you see us getting any better? Really? At this pace we are settling
right next to the Arizona schools (or even just below them) as nonfactors in the
conference. Time for change.
U 90your greater than argument is almost all assumptions besides USU and
USC.It may have been different for USU if they had played the depleted USC
U 90Stanford and UCLA are head and shoulders above those teams other than
that the experts have all those teams near one another USC and Arizona aare not
very good. Houston And Ga Tech would probabaly beat both but to guess is
unitelligent.I agree with Stanford and UCLA but compare the other is an
assumption no more.
Watching the ASU game tonight. Utes may as well plan on 4-5 and 1-5 right now.
Sundevils look awfully good right now. Utes get blown out again by
ASU..."mark it down".
Smart,Since Utah beat BYU look at the teams they have played and you
can understand why BYU is "playing better" in your words.... it's
because they're playing weaker competitionStanford >
BoiseUCLA > HoustonArizona > GA TechUSC > USU
@ Uteology#27 is actually a really good ranking considering 3 of those
seasons were terrible.From 06-09 BYU was consistently one of the best
teams in the nation.The utes BCS runs were fun and awesome.But
continued success is where success is judged in sportsDoes anyone talk
about floridas national titles just a few years ago?Or how about
USC's?I am talking about this season. From a national perspective not
many care about 08 and 04 anymore.BYU has had decent success for 40 years
(the last 12 have been the worst) is there a difference between 40 years and 10
BeSmartCheyenne, WY@ UteologyThe key to your one
sentences they WERE awarded the national title.Let me get this straight
upsetting top 10 teams every few years is what a program is built on?just
curious I like continued long term success.--------------Like what? One more #25 finish over Utah? The key to BYU success, beat up
cupcakes get exposed by good teams. That's why you have you no BCS bowl
game or win.The key in the BCS era was undefeated seasons to BCS
wins. That's why Utah was ranked #10 last decade and BYU #27 by CBS
U90I am a fan of the utes and cougars and the utes did win four in a row
good for them.BYU is a better team now than they were a month and a half
ago.Utah is not a better team than they were a month ago.If they
played eachother now who knows I don'tI hope the Utes so wellbut face reality they are not a good team right now (a healthy Wilson may make
Besides MTSU and sagarin rankings have Houston USU and Boise all within 4
You go ahead and quote the experts, and I'll just quote reality "20-13
loss on your home field"This discussion was never about Utah
being a PAC12 doormat. I've already conceded that much.BYU's weaker schedule explains 6-2 vs. 4-4. If you are beyter,
shouldn't you have at least won one head-to-head game in the last 4 years?
U 90You do realize I am saying BYU is probably the better team now.In a BYU lost two of the first three.BYU is on a 5 game winning streak
against teams that are ranked (by experts) higher than Utah.Explain to me
how winning 2 straight to top 45 sagarin teams is worse than losing to two
straight to 40 sagarin teams?
@ U90 How am I coming up short?I am quoting the expertsHow
many people on these boards make a living in athletics?How do I explain
the losses to virginia and Utahbeginning of the year, improvement since
those games.6-2 is not short of 4-4.I applaud the utes schedule, and
their wins.But they are not measuring up to mid-Pac teamsNo offense
I will side with the experts.
Be Smart,If BYU is better, how do you explain loss to Utah on home
field and loss to 2-6 Virginia? A very, very bad Virginia. If Utah
is so bad how do you explain wins over BYU & Stanford? Utah is 4-4 with the
#4 schedule. All of the teams Utah has lost to have been ranked for at least
two or more weeks this season. You're still coming up short
@ U90those rankings contain all of the the games for the year. they will
remain at 4 or drop.Knowledge of the ranking system is needed before you
argue.I am actually over here because I cheer for the Utes and Cougars.Utah is the best team in head to heads, but the experts agree BYU is better
now.Utah has had some bad luck.But to say BYU would be the same as
Utah is an assumptionNo one knows.But as a person who thinks the
experts are right I stated where the rankings would put them.
Be Smart,You mean long term success against PAC12 cellar dwellars
like 0-4, 3-9, 7-14 or 34-57?What would BYU do with Utah's
schedule over the past 3 years Mr. Smart? You understand that after the ASU and
Oregon games Utah will likely own the #1 toughest schedule in the country,
right? BYU would probably perform no better than the Utes if they had
Utah's schedule given that BYU can't even beat Utah. So
why are you over here on the Utah threads anyway? Your infatuation with the
best team in the state is peculiar.
@ UteologyThe key to your one sentences they WERE awarded the national
title.Let me get this straight upsetting top 10 teams every few years is
what a program is built on?just curious I like continued long term
@thebigsamoanMiami? The last time BYU beat any Big 5 ranked team
was in 1996. That's 17 years ago, so they have a better chance of pulling
off a miracle win against Utah, just barely.
Frozen Chosen Savage, MNYep, those Utes can practice
with the best of them. But when it comes to playing well in actual games - not
so much------Just wondering, you don't consider
playing BYU an actual game? How sad for Cougar Nation.
@PAC manAs for Utah's win versus then #5 Stanford; can you say
fluke? Utah is sitting at 4-4 and will be lucky to be bowl eligible.----------And when was the last time BYU beat a final ranked Big 5
team?1996 Kansas State (9-3) 15BYU (14-1) 19Yes, it's been 17 years. According to Washington Huskies the fluke
was:"BYU's title was notable for being the only time since
the inception of the AP poll that a team was awarded the national title without
beating an opponent ranked in the top 25 at the season's end."
@PAC manUtah was fortunate to beat a TCU team at home when TCU's
all-American missed TWO FGs from short range. Utah's win versus then #3
Alabama was impressive, but alas, Alabama finished #6, and was part of
Kyle's one perfect storm season. How many other 11-win, Top 15 seasons has
Kyle had?---------Kyle finished 33-6 playing your
schedule, since then he's 8-1 against same teams. The 7 loses have been to
all AP ranked teams, except for Notre Dame which finished AP #26 in 2010.We won the 2008 TCU game just like your best:#12 (11-2) BYU
24 (1-11) New Mexico 19"[New Mexico] Kicker James Aho
whacked the uprights three times -- on field goal attempts of 35 and 42 yards
and on a PAT try, all in the second half."That's 7 points
that the New Mexico kicker missed and U won by 5. Remember that 2009 BYU team
is your best team since 1996.
Riddles,#1 Pitt finished 3-7-1. Maybe rankings at the end of the
season mean more than rankings at the beginning. Just my $2 cents
@ jarka-rus "Since Ute fans like to put an asterisk next to Byu's 1984
championshi.... then no doubt the Bama Sugar Bowl win needs an asterisk, Bama
didn't wanna play in that game"There is a difference
between a fact and speculation. BYU owns the 1984 NC because they were voted
#1. That is a fact. Utah beat 4 ranked teams in 2008 and 1 ranked team in 2004
during their perfect seasons. That is a fact. BYU did not beat any ranked
teams in 1984. That is a fact. Bama didn't want to play the Utes in 2008.
That is speculation.
jark,BYU lost to Virginia whose only other win this season is
against the Virginia Military Institute. BYU has the capability to lose to
really bad teams. Furthermore, BYU lost to Utah on their home field
and Utah lost to Arizona and USC. What makes you so certain BYU would beat AZ
jarka-rusNor would BYU beat Stanford; or Utah for that matter. Nice
to see you back on the Utah thread!
Chris BYou left out Kyle's and Bronco's worst losses:Kyle-SHUT OUT by a 10-loss UNLV team 0-27 that only beat one
other team, 10-loss Utah State-Beaten in RES by 10-loss Colorado
team 14-17 that hadn't won a road game in 4 yearsBronco-Lost at Utah State(4-8) 16-31 after BYU's DC literally quit during
the game-Lost at Virginia(2-6) 16-19 because of a tipped pass of a
rain-soaked football thrown by a sophomore QB starting only his 3rd game after
season-ending knee surgery shortened his freshman season to only two gamesAs has been discussed ad nauseum, one game does not a season make. Utah
was fortunate to beat a TCU team at home when TCU's all-American missed TWO
FGs from short range. Utah's win versus then #3 Alabama was impressive, but
alas, Alabama finished #6, and was part of Kyle's one perfect storm season.
How many other 11-win, Top 15 seasons has Kyle had?As for
Utah's win versus then #5 Stanford; can you say fluke? Utah is sitting at
4-4 and will be lucky to be bowl eligible.
Chris B"Being #1 "when they played" doesn't mean
anything."Actually, in this case, beating then #1 was HUGE.If you knew anything about college football history, you'd know
that then #1-ranked, defending national champion Miami finished #3 in the final
polls; it was that BYU win, that launched Ty Detmer's Heisman Trophy
winning season.Conversely, Utah's win versus then #5 Stanford
is appearing to be more and more a fluke, rather than a launching pad to
anything significant.As usual, Utah's high water mark falls far
short of BYU's high water mark.
Since Ute fans like to put an asterisk next to Byu's 1984 championship and
any other top win, then no doubt the Bama Sugar Bowl win needs an asterisk,
Bama didn't wanna play in that game, have their O-line was either injured
or suspended, along with Mount Cody on defense suspended. Put Bama at full
strength and they would have run the Utes out of the stadium.
This is funny.I bring up new stuff to talk about and I get old facts to
argue my point.I bring up old facts and people say that is too old.consistency doesn't exist.
I am not claiming anything from 1984. As some people say that was 30 years
ago.It was a weak schedule but the bottom line they were the undisputed
champion.Utah did play 4 ranked teams (but according to some philosophies)
2 didn't count because they were MWC.I applaud the Utes for their
accomplishments but be consistent when bringing up a point.
@U 90Byu would beat Arizona and USC
Reasonable, Yours was a very reasonable post. Refreshing.jarkarus,
BYU wouldn't beat Stanford... or Utah (0-4)
Record all-time for U in Pac 12 games: 84-135-6 .373U record as member
of Pac 12 in Conf games: 8-15 .347Looks to me like this conversation on
why U is better than BYU takes away from the next opponent. I wonder if the U
players are still thinking BYU was their bowl game. I bet if they become bowl
eligible, the U would gladly accept the New Mexico Bowl. How would the U fans
travel for that one? Not!
@ BeSmart "What do the Utes hang their hat on 2008 and 2004? Two of their
weakest schedules in history?Utah beat 4 ranked teams in 2008. In
2004 the Utes beat one top 25 team. In 1984 BYU's best win was against 6-6
Michigan or 8-4 Air Force, you pick. Be Smart before you post.
What have the Utes done lately?Top 25- nopebowl game- nope(but
we have a tough schedule)who really cares?
@ChrisB"The future is bright" hahaha that was you're
funniest comment yet. How long into the future is that brightness? I'ld say
at least 20 years.
The Utes wouldn't beat Texas
I just found out something interestingabout that Miami teamit was
coached by Dennis Ericksonand it was an independent.
@ Chris BMiami finished the year ranked #3.Stanford has not even hit
#3.Have a great day. lolBig Samoan that is good logic beat the #1
that ended #3
I would hope we all agree beating an END of season ranked team is better than
beating a beginning of season ranked team, assuming the end/beginning ranked
team is ranked the same. Best wins between Bronco and Kyle1. Kyle's win over Alabama2. Kyle's win over
Stanford(season's not over, but our best guess at where they will end
currently is in the top 10 which they are now). If Stanford were to go on and
lose their last 5 games I'd gladly admit they are not a top 10 team. 3. Kyle's 2008 win over TCUWhat is Bronco's best win in
his ENTIRE time at byu(and again, please lets all acknowledge END of season
rankings matter and not the beginning. Again, USC wasn't the best team in
the nation last year even though they started #1)Again, what is
Bronco's best win in his ENITRE time at byu?I would think to
win a national title you'd need 3-4 HUGE wins in the same season, certainly
with wins against top 10 teams.Does Bronco even have 1 such win?LOL
@Frozen Chosen"Stanford will not be in the top 10 by the end of
the season so you'll have to hang your bowless hat on something else - like
beating BYU! Yipee!"Comments like this just make us look bitter
and irrational. Stanford was without question a better win for Utah than their
win over BYU, and it will still be viewed that way at the end of the season.
Utah is streaky, but that was a big time win.Reasonable fans have to
admit that BYU is on the rise and playing really good football lately. But Utah
owns the title of best team in the state, and there isn't any room for us
to talk right now.
Big Samoan,Being #1 "when they played " doesn't mean
anything. USC was #1 to start the season last year, and ended up in
shambles, not even ranked. Whoever beat USC should be bragging about
beating the best team in the nation huh?That's your
We won a top 10 team and that means we can win the national conference and byu
cant because they havent.Go Utes!
@ big somoanread the posts over the last few days.I say BB has 1
legit argument.other than that lolhe is now talking about
devotionalslola little sad really.Go Utah Schools
@Chris BSalt Lake City, UTBigSamoan,"You had
to go back 20 years to find the last time byu beat an end of season top 10
team?LOL"I was only responding to your preposterous
claim that you would rather take an inconsistent team that has proven it can
beat a top 10 team over one that has NO ability to beat one. I was pointing out
that BYU did that years ago, as in been there done that! Whether it's 20
yrs or 6, or 8 yrs ago doesn't matter. Utes beat Alabama who was not No. 1
when they played and BYU beat Miami who was No.1 when they played. How long ago
don't matter so your dig at BYU as the team that has no ability to beat a
top 10 team is quite simply silly, and very lame indeed!Go Cougars!
Go Utes! Go Aggies!
Just which Ute team showed up at the Coloseum last Saturday? It sure was not
the one that beat Stanford and gave a close call to UCLA. Consistancy. That is
where you make it in college ball. Not the NFL, but in college, you got to win
them all, or maybe have one early loss. What is making me mad now is that once
again the Pac 12 is being dissed by the BCS. Oregon is now 3rd behind Florida
State and Alabama, where as they were 2nd all year long. If Florida State does
not lose another, they may well be in the big game against Alabama, who no one
thinks will lose. Frankly I hope they both lose, but I also hoped SC would have
a good season. I'm not a big Oregon fan, but I sure would like to see them
in a rematch against probable Alabama. Remember Ute fans? You guys took out
Bama a few years ago. P.S. Not to make you mad, but BYU may well go to a better
bowl with a better record. Last laugh for them. Guess that would make you mad.
Chris B"You had to go back 20 years to find the last time BYU
beat an end of season top 10 team?"Remind us how many years Utah
has to go back to find the last time Utah finished #1 in both the AP and Coaches
polls.Remind us how many years Utah has to go back to find the last
time Utah beat the #1-ranked, defending national champions.Remind us
how many years Utah has to go back to find the last Utah player to win the
Heisman Trophy.Remind us how many years Utah has to go back to find
the last Utah player to be inducted into the National College Football Hall of
Fame.We could go on and on, but it's obvious that when you have
no history of your own, the only thing you can resort to is trying to minimize
the history of your rival by pretending that it happened so long ago that it
never really happened.It's hilarious that that standard only
seems to apply when Utah fans are discussing football, but not basketball.
@Fred Vader Since when has 21 become almost 33?
slcjimmyI am talking about this season.What do the Utes hang their
hat on 2008 and 2004?Two of their weakest schedules in history?First
the Bowl alliance was created (by power conferences) to try to determine the
national champion. It failed because of disputed championships (BYU played a
role in 1996 because some said BYU was good enough to have a shot at the
title)The BCS was created to do the same thing but failed due to having
multiple undefeated teams that did not have a shot at the national title.The playoff system is even worse because it can not even have every champion
in the power conferences.Please cite where BYU is the reason"The
BCS was formed in 1998, when the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big 12, Big Ten,
Pacific-10 and Southeastern conferences and the University of Notre Dame
contracted with the Fiesta, Orange, Rose and Sugar bowls. In 2004, the BCS was
expanded to increase access for all FBS conferences. At that time, Conference
USA, Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt and Western Athletic conferences
joined in administering the BCS"So they created it because of BYU 14
years after the fact?
@ BeSmart...Take the advice you have choosen for your handle and be just that
before posting any more ridiculous pie in the sky Utah County nonsense! Chris B
never mentioned "potential" BCS coaching victories for Bronco rather
current victories over BCS teams. If you're hanging your hat on Houston
& Texas good luck! Similar to hanging your hat on the 1984 season! Do you
people realize that's the reason for the BCS? I'm assuming probably
BigSamoan,You had to go back 20 years to find the last time byu beat
an end of season top 10 team?LOLAs I said, Bronco thinks
he's going to win a national title, and yet hes' NEVER even beaten a
single top 10 end of season team.LOL!
"And just think, since we own byu and usu and we struggle in the Pac 12,
would either of those teams win a single game in the Pac 12?"Well, looking at the three teams PAC 10/12 W - L records over the past 10
years, including so far this year:BYU Winning percentage over PAC
10/12 = .428 (21 games - 9 wins)*UoU Winning percentage over PAC
10/12 = .424 (33 games - 14 wins)USU Winning percentage over PAC
10/12 = .250 (4 games - 1 win)Looks like BYU and USU wouldn't
do any worse than U if they were in the PAC, and may even be doing slightly
better.*Interesting that BYU has played almost as many PAC 10/12
games as U over the past 10 years, but isn't in the PAC.
@ Chris B.I would saying Stanford in the Rose Bowl is far from a
guarantee.They still have Oregon, @ USC (not a gimme right?),and Notre
Dame.If Stanford beats Oregon then Oregon will get the Rose Bowl
invite.I would think with you recent history on predictions U would
stop.Stanford could end up there or have three more losses.Bronco
actually has 2 potential BCS bowl participants this year.Houston,
Texas.Intelligent judgements can be made at the end of the year.
Know how many times Bronco has not gone to a bowl game?ZERO!It looks like there is hole in Kyle's resume, and unless things
change quick it's going to get bigger. LOL!And please, I
won't mention 1984 if Chris B. will quit bringing up Alabama.
Utah needs to turn the good practices into good games. ASU is pivotal. The USC
game was extremely dissapointing. The Bye week should help. Come on Utes,
let's get to a bowl; any bowl.GO UTAH>---->@FrozenIf Utah doesn't get to a bowl the Stanford and
BYU wins won't matter. Either way, Stanford is a better team then BYU;
don't kid your self!
Great news coming out of the Utes on Travis's condition. Hope they do well
from here on out. As for Chris B's assertion that quote,
"But I'll take a team that actually has proven that it can beat top 10
teams even if they're inconsistent over a team that has no ability to beat
top 10 teams anyday", well, I know that comment was meant as a dig on BYU.
No ability to beat top 10 teams any day Chris? It's too bad you can't
show support for your team without denigrating others. Lest you forget, BYU
defeated NO.1 Miami years back so it's nothing new to the Cougars. Wish we
could all support and be nice to each other. Why is that so hard? Why
can't both sides show more kindness, tolerance, and respect towards each
other? Go Cougars! Go Utes! Go Aggies!
@Frozen,Yes, Stanford will not only be in the top 10 but will play
in the Rose Bowl. That will be the second time Whittingham has beat a BCS bowl
participant(Alabama, Stanford) and second time he beat an END of season top 10
team. Know how many times Bronco has beaten a BCS bowl participant
and end of season top 10 team?ZERO!You have a coach that
thinks he's going to win a national title at byu and he's NEVER beaten
an end of season top 10 team.LOL!
Chris BBYU has beaten 5 to 6 likely bowl teams.The Utes have beaten
3.I hope the Utes can improve so I can finally watch them play.
Yep, those Utes can practice with the best of them. But when it comes to
playing well in actual games - not so much.As to them being able to
beat a top 10 team, Stanford will not be in the top 10 by the end of the season
so you'll have to hang your bowless hat on something else - like beating
I'm so glad things are "very good" in Uteville especially 'on
the hill'. They always are!I like the 'positive'
vibe. And who am I doubt Whit? Last year he said...It's a shame
Utes fans aren't feeling too positive right now.
This team has proven it can beat any team in the nation, by beating a top 10
otherwise undefeated Stanford team.And yes, this team can lose to
many Pac 12 teams.But I'll take a team that actually has proven
that it can beat top 10 teams even if they're inconsistent over a team that
has no ability to beat top 10 teams anyday.Still proud of this team.
The future is bright for this program.Go Utes!And just
think, since we own byu and usu and we struggle in the Pac 12, would either of
those teams win a single game in the Pac 12?