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BYU football: Cougars hoping to learn lessons from last bye week experience

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  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 31, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    Latest BCS Rankings

    Rank Team BCS Avg Harris Coaches Sagarin Colley A-H Billingsley Massey Wolfe CPU Avg
    28 BYU 0.057 19 21 12 20 22 21 30 26 22.25
    45 Utah 0.00 00 00 62 51 43 41 41 48 45.75

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Oct. 31, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    Chris B
    Seems to me when Utah was joining the Pac you were predicting Rose Bowl wins after Rose Bowls wins, BCS appearances etc etc blah blah blah, yet the Utes keep ending up in the cellar and missed a bowl game last year right? Yeah they are sure head and shoulders above Byu.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 31, 2013 11:33 a.m.

    2B christy

    Haven't Utah fans been spouting the virtues of the BCS ranking system for years, and now, just as the BCS is on its last legs, our friends on the hill have suddenly decided that the BCS rankings are a complete farce and, therefore, meaningless.

    You might want to have yourselves checked for whiplash - it happens, sometimes, when you experience a sudden and violent change of direction.

    Latest BCS Rankings

    Rank Team BCS Avg Harris Coaches Sagarin Colley A-H Billingsley Massey Wolfe CPU Avg
    28 BYU 0.057 19 21 12 20 22 21 30 26 22.25
    45 Utah0.00 00 00 62 51 43 41 41 48 45.75

    Despite Utah's "best win in the state", Utah's head-to-head win versus BYU, and BYU's "worst loss in the state", BYU is still ranked significantly higher across the board by every poll, ranking system, and computer used in the BCS rankings.

    Please explain why your opinions that Utah is better than BYU is directly contradicted by the BCS rankings, and, btw, every other national ranking - CBS Sports, USA Today, etc.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    Agreed Chris
    BYU has not done anything noteworthy.
    but we talking about this year right?
    If Utah doesn't make a bowl (or even make the Heart of Dallas bowl) then their upset
    is like Vandy beating Georgia.
    An upset is great but sustained success is better.
    and I am glad of what Utah accomplished but no offense Utah has not been that good since 2008.
    BYU finished 12th in 2009 other than that they have not been that good.
    Anyone notice BYU got a lot more attention for beating Texas than Utah did for Stanford?

    I worked in college athletics for a decade. Utah was invited because of their great medical research, and tv market. Colorado was invited mainly for TV market.
    Utah and Colorado were not invited because of their prowess in athletics.
    BYU would have been in a power conference two decades ago if it was for bias'. You can go back and look at the articles.
    During the 90's all the pac-10 athletic directors voted to admit BYU. This did not make it past the Presidents of the Universities.
    Athletically BYU was wanted 20 years ago.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 9:48 a.m.

    Best win of anyone in the state this year?
    Utah over top 10 otherwise undefeated Stanford.
    Worst loss for anyone in the state?
    byu losing to Virginia, who hasn't won another division 1 win all year.

    I think its clear why the Pac 12 wanted Utah and not byu. Obviously the football world couldn't care less about 1984 or the rest of byu's history. Because history is all byu can point to.

    Has bronco done anything really notworthy in his entire time at byu? And no, simply being a top 25 team isn't that noteworthy - 25 teams do it ever year.

    Going undefeated is noteworthy. Beating an SEC powerhouse Nick Saban team is noteworthy. Finishing as the only undefeated team in the entire country is noteworthy.

    Bronco have anything like that?

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 31, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    2 BCS wins
    BYU has beaten Georgia Tech, and Houston. They are rated above Utah in the BCS is Utah not "good competition"?
    BYU has also beat Utah State, Boise State, and MTSU. Who will all most likely go to a bowl game. (Boise and USU are right above and below Utah in Sagarin)
    Which are teams that win at least half their games. I would consider that good competition.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    @Be smart...."Truth is BYU is improved from when they played Utah (that is a fact), BYU has played against good competition"

    Really who have they beat that's currently in the top 25? Better yet who have they even played that's currently in the top 25?

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Oct. 30, 2013 5:18 p.m.

    BYU beat Texas by 19
    who beat Oklahoma by 16
    who beat Notre Dame by 14
    who beat USC by 4
    who beat Utah by 16

    Net result = BYU is 69 points better than Utah and beat the Big 12 co-leader by 19 points.

    BYU > Texas > Oklahoma > Notre Dame > USC > Utah

    Isn't this fun?!

    Bottom line:

    The majority of the country ranks BYU 20 places higher than the Utes.

  • utesgoingdownthehill Salt Lake City , UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 4:30 p.m.

    "We started out the season good and we are getting better and better with each game."
    Go Utes!

    I don't know if the guy who made this comment is same Utah football team that I have been watching this season.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    @Chris B:

    Who is "we"?

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Oct. 30, 2013 3:13 p.m.

    Correction, my previously posted numbers were slightly off; Bronco has 6 Nov/Dec losses:

    Bronco:
    Aug/Sept - 23-16 (59%)
    October - 25-9 (74%)
    Nov/Dec - 32-6 (84%)

    Kyle:
    Aug/Sept - 27-11 (71%)
    October - 22-14 (61%)
    Nov/Dec - 25-11 (69%)

    btw, the impact of the Independent/PAC schedules for Nov/Dec 2011/2012 is negligible.

    Bronco's teams improve steadily throughout the season, while Kyle's teams show little, if any, improvement after the first couple of weeks. Kyle appears to start stronger, due mostly to a cream puff early schedule. Kyle has only beaten one FBS with a winning record, Pittsburgh(8-5), in his first two games. Bronco has beaten FOUR including then #3 Oklahoma and then #15 Texas.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    Oct. 30, 2013 2:19 p.m.

    Chris B

    "And your numbers surely wouldn't be impacted by the fact Utah has been playing Pac 12 teams(more than just Colorado) to end the season the last few years..."

    The "last few years", as in TWO years - 2011 and 2012?

    Utah's record during Nov/Dec during their first two years in the PAC seems decent, 6-3, until you examine the details.

    In Nov/Dec 2011 and 2012, the Utes played exactly TWO PAC teams with winning records, and LOST to both. Against PAC teams with losing records, the Utes were 6-1, with a narrow 7-point win over 1-11 Colorado last season and an ugly loss to 3-10 Colorado in 2011.

    W 3-9
    W 4-8
    W 6-8
    W 4-8
    L 3-10
    W 3-9
    L 7-6
    L 8-5
    W 1-11

    Since joining the PAC, Utah has only beaten ONE PAC team during Nov/Dec that finished with more than 4 wins.

    Because of the Independent scheduling crunch, BYU only played six Nov/Dec games in 2011/2012, finishing 5-1.

    Nov/Dec in the MWC:
    BYU 26-5 (84%)
    Utah 19-8 (70%)

    Next excuse...

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 30, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    Wins>losses
    6-2 > 4-4
    BCS 28 (BYU) > 45 (Utah)
    I like this greater than thing but lets use the experts that most people (including Chris) agree with.
    lol

  • USNGary San Diego, CA
    Oct. 30, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    Chrissy, before you go on and say 4 in a row blah blah blah stuff, utah beating buy is just like utah beating stanford this year. BYU goes on and wins the majority of their games while utah goes on to lose most of their games. blah blah blah. By the way, BYU plays 7 teams from BCS conference to include ND. Looking into next years rules for the playoff and what is now known as the BCS games, you can add Utah State, Boise State and Nevada with the big boys due to the team with the highest rankings will play in that game as an automatic qualifier since the AAC will no longer have that auto qual.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 1:05 p.m.

    Just the FAx,

    And your numbers surely wouldn't be impacted by the fact Utah has been playing Pac 12 teams(more than just Colorado) to end the season the last few years and byu has been playing the likes of Idaho and New Mexico State would it?

    LOL!

    Pac 12 membership > indy/WAC schedule

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    besmart,

    "Bye weeks are great players and coaches can spend time with family.
    and not worry about the game.
    That is 5th on their priority list"

    It's nice to have that in your back pocket to pull out as an excuse for a team that never does anything huh?

    Bronco Zero top 10 finishes
    Bronco Zero "quests for perfection"
    Bronco Zero BCS bowls
    Bronco Zero BCS bowl wins

    But hey, you guys didn't really care about those things very much anyways huh?

    LOL!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    1978,

    "BYU > Texas > All Big 12 Opponents"

    But you forgot one still

    Utah > byu > Texas > big 12 opponents

    We OWN byU

    LOL

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 30, 2013 12:43 p.m.

    thanks UoU 1991
    way to use an intelligent point.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 12:07 p.m.

    Chris B

    "Wouldn't starting the season well and continuing the same be better than starting poorly like Bronco and then "improving"?"

    The disparity in early seasons results is more likely due to the preponderance of early season patsies Kyle usually plays. In his first nine seasons, Kyle has only beaten ONE FBS opponent with a winning record in the first two games of the season:

    Records of Kyle's first two opponents:

    W 3-8
    W 3-8
    L 7-6
    W 6-5 FCS
    L 9-4
    L 9-4
    W 3-9
    W 5-7
    W 4-8
    W 2-10
    W 8-5
    W 2-11
    W 10-3 FCS
    L 10-2
    W 5-6 FCS
    L 11-2
    W 4-4
    W 1-7 FCS

    Average 5.7-6.1

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    Spokane Ute,

    The pay out and prestige of a bigger/better bowl is unquestionably good but when you're in BYU's situation, you take what you contracted for. A guaranteed thing is always better than no bowl invite at all or being left out. Even better is if there's a clause in BYU's bowl contract that they can opt out if a better/bigger bowl invitation comes their way. I'd love for the Utes to be bowl eligible and play BYU in San Francisco. That would be my dream post season bowl hope for now! I want so much for Kyle and Hoffman to have another shot at redeeming themselves. They may end up being disappointed again but hey, why not give it another try?

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:44 a.m.

    @Chris B

    One more logical progression:

    BYU > Texas > All Big 12 Opponents.

    I believe that makes us the Big 12 Champions and by defacto a BCS buster regardless of which bowl game we go to. I am liking this train of thought.

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    We started out the season good and we are getting better and better with each game.

    Go Utes!

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    Bye weeks are great players and coaches can spend time with family.
    and not worry about the game.
    That is 5th on their priority list.
    Go BYU

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    Chris B

    The records speak for themselves.

    Kyle - one great undefeated season, but only one Top 15 finish, only one conference championship, and losses to every bottom dweller in the MWC, and already well on his way to losing to every bottom dweller in the PAC - 8-15 so far in the PAC.

    Bronco - three very good, 11-win, Top 15 seasons, twice as many 11-win seasons since 2006 as the Utes have had in their entire history; undefeated against MWC bottom dwellers New Mexico, Colorado St, Wyoming, and UNLV; 4 AP Top 25 finishes from 2006-2009, twice as many AP Top 25 finishes in succession as the Utes have had in their entire history.

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 4
    Kyle 2

    AP/Coaches Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    Record versus PAC 10/12 Teams
    Bronco 9-8 (53%)
    Kyle 12-18 (40%)

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    The bye week will help in preparation. What a big game for BYU. It's certainly winnable. BYU is getting better with each passing week. IMO

    It's somewhat unfortunate that BYU is locked into a bowl already. It would be nice to have the opportunity to play, or win, there way into a bigger/better bowl, but that's the way it is as an independent. I guess you take the good (scheduling flexability) with the bad (very limited bowl opportunity).

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    JustFAX,

    "Broncos' record clearly demonstrates that he's very good at improving his team throughout the season."

    It also demonstrated he focuses a little too much in the offseason on the upcoming devotionals than he does to getting ready for the first 3 games of the season right?

    And bragging about "improvement" doesn't mean a whole lot in and of itself when your baseline is "Well we are usually really bad to start the season but then we get better"

    Wouldn't starting the season well and continuing the same be better than starting poorly like bronco and then "improving"?

    LOL!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    1978,

    You forgot one team

    Eastern Washington > Oregon State > Utah > byu

    LOL!

  • benjoginko Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:57 a.m.

    Chris B,

    I have a question for you. If you aren't a BYU fan why do you spend so much time reading BYU articles and posting on them. I can't imagine wasting my time reading UofU articles. I like the Utes to win when BYU isn't playing them as I want all BYU Opponents to do well as it helps our strength of schedule. I just can't imagine having so much time on my hands to waste trolling other teams news articles and comment boards.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    chris b

    "Yes, pac 12 competition is tough.

    Most Pac 12 teams > Utah > BYU"

    Saying it, doesn't make it so:

    Versus PAC 12 Teams
    Bronco 9-8 (53%)
    Kyle 12-18 (40%)

    Bronco is 2-0 versus Washington, a team Utah has NEVER beaten - Kyle is 0-2
    Bronco destroyed Oregon 38-8; Kyle will get destroyed by Oregon
    Bronco humiliated UCLA 59-0; Kyle lost at home to UCLA 27-34

    It's obvious which coach would be competitive in the PAC, and which coach is only a pretender.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    Dumb rules on targeting rule. Why didn't they ncaa do the same to those pac12 ref who blew it on this Wisconsin vs ASU game? That way they should have never come this u vs BYU game!

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:28 a.m.

    Chris,

    BYU's record versus the rest of the PAC-12 has been fine. We all know Utah has the ability to beat BYU. Utah has proved that. Utah can't win more conference games than they lose. Utah has also proved that. If BYU were in the PAC-12 instead of Utah, BYU would be more competitive. BYU has greater depth. BYU rarely loses to bad teams. The only bad team prior to this year Bronco has lost to was last year's 5-7 Utah Utes. Virginia and this year's incarnation of Utah would only mark three loses to sub par teams if trends continue.

    Utah on the other hand has lost to EVERYBODY in the MWC and a pathetic Colorado team in Utah that had not won a road game in over two years.

    I loved the Utes victory versus Stanford. That win gave fans hope that the Utes had finally rounded the corner. The Utes then lost to Arizona and worse still a USC team that had to play an intern walk-on to get enough bodies on the field. BYU would have beat both those teams.

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    @Chris B

    Oh I get it.

    Eastern Washington > Oregon State > Utah

    Good thing you don't compete in the Big Sky.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    christy

    "The first game of the season is essentially coming off a bye week too, as there is extra prep time."

    You quite obviously don't have a clue about the dynamics of a bye week.

    Bye weeks are all about resting players and getting them healthy, but more importantly, it's a time for adjustment, a time to review strengths and weaknesses, a time to figure out what's working and what isn't, a time to fine tune schemes and techniques in order to get better.

    Broncos' record clearly demonstrates that he's very good at improving his team throughout the season. Each of his three 11-win, Top 15 seasons began with 1 or 2 disappointing losses in the first three weeks, but after the 3rd week, Bronco was 29-1.

    Kyle's record, by comparison, shows no improvement throughout the season.

    Bronco:
    Aug/Sept - 23-16 (59%)
    October - 25-9 (74%)
    Nov/Dec - 32-4 (84%)

    Kyle:
    Aug/Sept - 27-11 (71%)
    October - 22-14 (61%)
    Nov/Dec - 25-11 (69%)

    Let's not forget that Kyle LOST, at home, to a 10-loss Colorado team, at the end of the season.

    Pollsters are more forgiving of early season losses.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    @ Chris B
    you can not say what BYU would do.
    According to the experts BYU would be 6th in the conference.
    Right according to Sagarin ,AP and BCS
    Could BYU be worse sure, could they be better sure.
    Truth is BYU is improved from when they played Utah (that is a fact), BYU has played against good competition (SOS is greater than most power conference teams, except Pac-12)
    Utah is a good (improving) program, but they are really struggling right now and would not beat many good teams.
    Utah beat Stanford and it was a great victory, but Stanford beat UCLA and OSU.
    So your point that Most Pac-12 teams are greater than Utah which are greater than BYU make no sense.
    Oregon>Stanford>UCLA>OSU= Utah>Stanford>UCLA>OSU
    Doesn't make sense right?
    No one knows how BYU would stack up, to guess is hilarious.
    Do you back the experts? or the results of one game?
    That is an unintelligent argument.
    Truth is BYU 6-2 against #21 SOS, and Utah 4-4 against #4 SOS.
    Pretty good (partial) seasons.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    @BeSmart,

    Yes, pac 12 competition is tough.

    Most Pac 12 teams > Utah > byu

    If WE struggle in the Pac 12, and byu can't beat us, just think how terrible byu would be if we invited them to the Pac 12(we wont)

  • Abeille West Haven, Utah
    Oct. 30, 2013 9:19 a.m.

    Chris B -
    Nice to see you're still 'keeping up' on the B.Y.U. sports programs! I can honestly say your diligence in reading everything related to Cougar sports shows your continued love of and loyalty to the Cougars! You're an inspiration! After all, who in their right mind would read article after article of a team they despise? No one - that'd be crazy.

    Once again, thank you for your continued support of B.Y.U. I thought I was a Cougar fan, but I, as a fan, am NOTHING compared to you! Keep up the good work!

    P.S. - maybe Bronco can fit you in to one of the firesides. As the super Cougar fan you are, you'd be a perfect fit.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    Yeah Chris B
    Utah has to worry after playing BYU to. 4 games after the game
    2013 1-3
    2012 1-3
    2011-1-3

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:10 a.m.

    The first game of the season is essentially coming off a bye week too, as there is extra prep time. Yes, the other team has it as well, just as two teams can meet in the regular season with both coming off bye weeks.

    So lets look at byu's two "bye" weeks

    1. byu lost to Virginia, a team that hasn't beaten another Division 1 team all year. LOL

    2. byu lost for the fourth time in a row, leaving van noy, Hoffman, and others winless in their careers against their rivals. LOL

    It seems bronco would be wise to spend a little less time worrying about the devotional coming off a bye week and a little more time about, you know, playing football.

    Just a suggestion.

  • DC Alexandria, VA
    Oct. 30, 2013 6:36 a.m.

    Targeting - hate that rule. Everything is easy to do in slow motion - try not hitting the other guy in the helmet when he's running full speed at you and you don't know if he is going to duck his head or not. Players are taught to get low and hit low - with this new rule, they're just going to have to stand straight up and hope they can bring the runner down.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 11:18 p.m.

    The Targeting rule needs to be adjusted. Keep in mind Targeting as a verb requires volition -- you target someone only by carrying out an intent. What Skyler did was a noun -- a classification from a result -- his helmet hit the other guys helmet regardless of intent. The verb action should be an ejection. The noun action should be 15 yards the same as if you were in the middle of tackling someone, didn't notice the sideline and end up hitting them slightly out of bounds.