If you want to quibble about 17, change the age to 16, then to 15, 14, 13, 12,
down to the preschool age of those whose parents enter them into contests
dressed as 20 year olds.The law is there, the teacher should have known
it, also the 17 year old if you want to call him a perpetrator of this offense
should have known about the law if in your mind he is adult enough.Those,
including youth leaders who have some control over a situation need to be held
to the highest of standards.My only question is keeping the teacher on the
payroll. I would have held that she be suspended without pay and back pay
granted if she is found innocent.
Whether male or female, a 17 yr old is a victim, still trying to learn right
from wrong and subject to seduction. As a former teacher, I understand the
temptation, but it is a wrong and selfish thing to do. There are other ways of
getting one's desires fulfilled, especially legal ones. Leave the innocent,
easily-persuaded pool of children alone.
This girl is beautiful. Could she really not find a man instead of a boy?
Wow, are we really having a conversation about weather or not this was legal or
morally right? If the genders were reversed people would be rallying
against the teacher, most likely angry enough to burn him at the stake. This
argument is ridiculous, I wouldn't want any teenage child of mine sleeping
with anyone, let alone a teacher, a person in a position of power that should
respect the relationship of teacher and student regardless of gender. Excuse me while I vomit.
To SRNA: Other articles I have read on this teacher suggest she
started manipulating him at 15 which DOES make him a victim. " apologizing
to this teacher for potentially ruining her life" Are you insane?? I think
you made that statement because the teacher is female. If it were the other way
around and the male was the teacher would you be making the same
statement...i'm guessing not.
What happened to "control" over our feelings. If they are not mature or
strong enough to use control they should not be teaching our children,
grandchildren or great grandchildren. It is appalling and it affects their lives
forever. I hope this goes on her record and she is never able to teach children
In our sexually-obsessed society, we have different rules for "sex
offenses" than for other things. Why are there no registries for burglars,
shoplifters, embezzlers, robbers, car thieves, wife beaters . . . or even
murderers? Are not some of these crimes things that maybe potential victims
should be advised about? And with regard to the registries, don't
legislators and other zealots realize that criminals and "offenders"
have legs and wheels, and can move all over the place to do whatever it is that
they do? And why do registries put all "offenders" in roughly the same
category, whether those offenses involve violent rapes, age-difference
violations, public urination, public nudity, or whatever? And why are most of
the "offenders" in these cases deemed to basically be deemed guilty
until proven innocent, with no way to prove innocence? More evidence that we
have very screwed-up legal, criminal, "correction," and criminal
"But while incidents like Altice's arrest cause everyone concern,
Williams doesn't know if it calls for any additional training of teachers.
He said not having relationships or abusing students isn't something that
should have to be taught."This is common sense stuff," he
said. "I don't think we necessarily have to hold any special training.
This is common sense."Apparently not. Read this thread. Not a
lot of "common sense" on here. Look at the number who are
being caught. Multiply that by 10 or 20 or 50 or 100 for those who aren't.
The teacher should be fired but felony charges are over the top.
cjbMapleDonothers...Fine shoot the messenger.I simply stated "the law" -- not religous or moral codes.Precisely how Judges and Lawyers are going to look at it and pass
judgement.It doesn't really matter how YOU feel about it, It doesn't matter who seduced who, It doesn't matter what
religion you do or do not beling to or believe in, It doesn't matter
if some people mature faster or slower than others, The law is the law.That is the law, period.If you don't like it, change
"the law".If you want it to changed to mean anyone who
"looks" like an adult regardless of age is an adult -- change the
law.If you want it to changed to mean anyone who is "smart" like
an adult regardless of age is an adult -- change the law.If you want it to
changed to mean anyone who "acts" like an adult regardless of age is an
adult -- change the law.But we are society based on law and order,
not touchy feely opinions.And the law defines it as 18 for everybody.BTW - sex with a minor, whether forced or consensual is
"legally" statutory rape.
To "cjb" and "airnaut" the boy, or any minor that has sex with
an adult typically is "groomed". That means that the child doesn't
just decide to have sex one day with the adult. Usually the adult slowly breaks
down the child's inhibitions, then has sex, then uses manipulation to keep
the relationship secret. There is a level of mental abuse akin to many abusive
marriages.Do you think that it is ok for an adult to have sex with
your teen age child? Even if your child wants it?
Would agree with FAYM.. But just the thought of spending 20-30 years in prison
should be a deterant. Is it really worth it to cross the line??
Veritas Aequitas: ...Not "teachers", but "teacher". While agree
with the majority of you post, you are in error because 5 seperate teachers and
cases were mentioned in the article. therefore the previous poster that used
the term "teachers" as in plural, was correct. That does in no way
denigrate the marvelous work that the vast majority of teachers do in serving
the children of the world.
If this was a girl and an older man teacher would some of you think of this
differently? The teacher has the power as she was in a position of authority.
He is 17 now but it appears to have started when he was 16. What is the age of
consent in Utah? Is it 18? Statutory Rape I believe comes in when there is an
age difference of at least on of the individuals being under 18. I think 34 and
17 is a big enough age difference. But if I was on the jury I would want a lot
re airnautI take it you consider him a victim.It is
possible to have a violation of the law without there being any victim is it
not? That being the case the metaphor doesn't apply.I suppose
this is one of those situation, where if you need it to be explained, you really
don't get and probably won't. I suppose these things are innate. You
either get it or you don't.
After ADMITTING she had sex with the student, she is put on administrative
leave, with pay? That is ridiculous!
This was amazingly horrible judgement on the part of this teacher -- especially
with so many similar cases in the news. At a minimum, she should have known that
once the fun was over, he would get angry and turn her in.
She's pretty. I can see how a 17 year old could have a crush on her. I agree with cjb. I have a hard time accepting the "victim"
excuse when someone is a willing player in a sexual relationship. One time could
be justified as a victim. Seven times? Give me a break.Some of you,
like airnut, have a bizarre hangup with the specifics of law. I understand the
law. It's intent is to protect minors. However, a 17 year old is just as
capable of seducing and "adult" as an 18 year old. Semantics and
behavior always should be considered in such matters.
As a teacher of 26 years, (in Davis District), I can't even imagine how
these teachers arrive at the mindset that these actions are somehow okay.I have thought of every one of my students, throughout the years, as
very similar to how I think of my own children. That line ABSOLUTELY should
never be crossed.Even when former students of mine look me up on
Facebook just to update me on how they are doing or to stay in touch... it
doesn't matter if they are 9, 15, 18, 20, or even 30 (or beyond)... there
is still that teacher-student relationship that holds on very strongly.
Crossing the line into inappropriate conversations or actions, or even
inappropriate emails makes me feel sick to my stomach.Every teacher
should remember what it was like to be a student and have had those teachers/
mentors in their own life. To have someone in that position cross over into
your life in inappropriate ways is just sick. Any teachers out
there who have those kinds of inappropriate feelings towards kids who are their
students should get out of the profession - and get out quickly. You are
degrading our profession.
@ Airnaut - Whats the difference morally and ethically between a "17 year,
11 month and 30 day" year old boy to a 18 year old 'man'? One day
does not morally change someone, nor make your point. However, the law is
different and I agree that it is wrong and action needs to happen@cjb - Spot on. This boy is not a victim. He WAS not raped. He willingly
met this teacher at her home, at a park and wherever else, maybe at McDonalds,
who knows? If this 'boy' was raped, I apologize for my comments. But
its leaning that this was mutual. ** A sad experience for the
'boy's' family. But I think if he knows how to have sex, he
should not be labeled a boy. Boys don't have sex. No matter their age: 17
or 35. If he is a part of the Mormon Faith, he has some resolutions to solve:
including apologizing to this teacher for potentially ruining her life. She
should still be tried accordingly for her mistakes.
@airnutcjb is not condoning the teacher's behavior. he/she is
condoning the idea that the student is a victim totally. One day, legally, you
are a victim, and the other day you aren't.... that is just morally silly.
Legally no, but morally, ethically, logically it's ludicrous. Just like
the Emperor's new clothes. We all know 17 year olds who might have started
the process, seduced the teacher. The teacher in such a situation is still
guilty, but such a 17-year-old (I'm not saying this 17-year-old is one
such) is not a victim in reality.
CougarBlue Heber City, UTIt is absolutely amazing how many of
these teachers simply lose their focus and their purpose.===Not "teachers", but "teacher". Thousands of teachers across
the country, working hard, using their own money and time for "your"
kids, and you sit in an office somewhere and lump them all together.Go thank a teacher today for taking the time to teach your child something
today that will make your child of value to the community!
I have to say I agree with cjb a bit here. I realize and agree the teacher was
just flat stupid for doing this. Very poor judgement on her part. But a kid
who obviously and proactively sought this, more than once. And then decides
what, that he feels guilty for whatever reason and goes to police to turn her
in. Did he not get what he wanted and desired out of the relationship that
appeared to be quite some time according to his own reports. Listen Mr. Teen,
if you don't like her anymore than move on and don't worry about it.
You got what you wanted and she made a very poor judgement call to get into it
anyway. But if you were not raped, controlled, and or manipulated in anyway,
then the teen is not a victim, sorry. He she is guilty and she got caught. But
why don't we hold this young man accountable as well. He gets his cake and
eats it too. And then when he decides its over or his conscience gets the best
of him, he is now the victim. Wrong on both parts.
cjbBountiful, UTIs it just me or is it rediculus to call a 17 year
old guy who willingly has sex with a woman a victim? I know it is common
terminology for such a situation, but it brings to mind the story emperor's
new clothes.3:04 p.m. Oct. 29, 2013========= Is it just me or is it ridiculous that you are condoning an adult Teacher
having sex with "children".18 years old is the
"legal" age of an adult.17 years, 11 months and 30 days or less is
legaly a "child".And how does your metaphor of the
Emporere's New Cloths fit into this situation?
Sad. My heart goes out to the affected families.
Is it just me or is it rediculus to call a 17 year old guy who willingly has sex
with a woman a victim? I know it is common terminology for such a situation,
but it brings to mind the story emperor's new clothes.
Doesn't anyone read, listen to, or watch the news anymore?
It is absolutely amazing how many of these teachers simply lose their focus and
their purpose. Sad to see them do this and create problems for themselves and
the students. Teachers have lowered the valueand respect of teachers by doing