Published: Tuesday, Oct. 29 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT
Mountanman quoting the "left wing media" CBS as gospel?? Wait just a
minute! I thought I just saw a porker fly by my window!!
Re:Joe5"In the first three quarters of 2011, the five largest publicly
traded insurers reported their best three-quarter performance of the past
decade, Bloomberg found. The companies' average operating margin widened to
8.65% in 2011, compared with 6.9% in the 18 months before the law was passed,
surpassing Wall Street analysts’ expectations."James
Hoffa, head of the Teamsters Union:"Though we may have concerns
with specific provisions of the ACA, we share the president's goal of
ensuring that every American has affordable access to top-quality health care.
It is on this main point that we disagree wholeheartedly with the efforts of
extreme right-wing Republicans to gut the ACA. Any suggestion otherwise is
simply political posturing."Liberals have always been more
critical of their leaders and self-critical than conservatives.Several Democratic Senators in conservative (southern) states are calling for
a delay in the mandate. Insurers are adamently opposed to delays. Kentucky is
successfully moving forward with ACA as are several other states.
@Mountanman:"Next up? Watch for Demos up for reelection try to hide
under their desks. Demos, YOU own this mess!"Democrats are
holding true to their philosophies/methodologies... when things start going
wrong with their programs, start pointing the accusative finger at others. Note
how many posts on this thread are insisting Obamacare was a Republican idea in
the first place. The truth is there has been zero, nil, nada national
healthcare bills introduced in the US Congress by Republicans. In fact, the
Republicans were shut out of any suggestions/amendments to Obamacare while being
constructed in committee. And no Republican voted for it.
The final verdict from the Supreme Court on ObamaCare is far from over. If you
read the entire text of the ruling, including the dissent, you'll see that
there is still much that will be discussed as various parts of ObamaCare go to
court.For instance the dissent said: "The
Constitution is not that. It enumerates not federally soluble problems, but
federally available powers.The Federal Government can address
whatever problems it wants but can bring to their solution only those powers
that the Constitution confers, among which is the power to regulate commerce.
None of our cases say anything else. Article I contains no whatever
it-takes-to-solve-a-national-problem power."One man decided that
ObamaCare would not be repealed. 59% of the People decided that ObamaCare was
not for them, but one man overruled the majority. One man rejected the majority
of the States. One man decided that he would not stand up to Obama, perhaps
seeing himself as a sub-citizen when compared to Obama.That is
tragic. We do not have "super citizens" who believe, like Orrin Hatch,
that they must "school" us until we agree with their liberal ideas.
Truthseeker: You spewed a lot of data but I failed to see the opinion or point
you were trying to make.Was showing the top 5 insurers made 7-8%
profit instead of the industry-wide 4-5% supposed to refute my point that
insurers were not making egregiously large profits? Would you invest in a
company with an expected ROI of 8%?Was quoting James Hoffa's
mea culpa and ignoring all his other comments supposed to refute my point that
unions were among those seeking exceptions from the terms of the ACA? Do you
deny they asked for concessions?Was your completely unsubstantiated
and biased (and untrue) claim about liberals ability to be critical of their
leaders supposed to erase the idea that even the most staunch Obama supporters
are very critical of ACA and specifically how it is being implemented? Do you
deny the criticism?Was you last rambling commentary supposed to
refute the claim that the Democratic Senate is discussing delaying the
implementation of ACA for a year? Do you deny the Democrats involvement in
seriously discussing a delay?In short, I don't get your point
or how it refutes any of my points.
Actually the conservative GOP house and senate DO have good plans for health
care reform. I have heard Mike Lee - Rand Paul - Ted Cruz - Paul Ryan and many
others speak at length about their plans for making health care less expensive
and more available without turning America into communist China as Obama is
doing. Some of the proposals are...1. TORT REFORM -
eliminating law suits which drive up cost2. Allow for the purchase of
insurance nationwide creating competition which also lowers cost3.
Creating a portfolio of health savings plans tailored for all income levels of
Americansthese are just a few of the measures and the good part they
cost nothing to the taxpayer. You NEVER hear of these things on CNN or NBC
because Obamacare is about Socialism and not solving healthcare as Ronald Reagan
warned about all the way back in the early 1970's. America has
turned into a welfare state which demands something for nothing like Greece and
France. America will NOT survive on the course it is following...look no further
than socialist Europe.
To "Ron" why does the GOP have to come up with a plan? Would you trust a
decision by the janitor about how treat your cancer? The problem is that
politicians don't understand the free market, so they keep trying to conrol
it and bend the free market to their will (fascism). If the politicians simply
repealed Obamacare, and let the free market work, then you would end up with
real solutions because if company A can offer a cheaper and more attractive
product than company B, they will so that they can generate profits.With the government policies that were added through Obamacare, company A must
deliver the same product as company B. The only way to improve things is to find
ways to make your product cost less. The Government doesn't like that, so
they are controlling the price too.The best solutions to lowering
healthcare costs have come from private industry, not government.To
"Tyler D" ok, it isn't regulations that raise the cost of
healthcare. It is mandates on insurance and taxes on medical devices combined
with lawyers that sue doctors and use questionable science to justify their
Why is it the government’s problem to fix?Roland, Ranch,
liberal larry, semi-strongThe GOP learned from MA that the individual
mandate did not work. Are dems incapable of learning?Hutterite, RIGHT!!!!! The GOP hijacked a single payer and forced us into the mandate.
Since NONE of them voted for Obamcare. How does THAT happen?One
voteBO, harry, and nancy were not and are not going to work with anyone
– the other side can come along if they want – in the back of the
bus. And that trio has promised to never compromise.Mman,NBC
News reported that BO knew it was a lie when he said people could keep their
current plans.More than 300,000 cancellation notices have been sent
out in Florida, and another 180,000 in California. In New Jersey, the number of
cancellations tops 800,000. According to NBC News, approximately 50
to 75 percent of the 14 million Americans who buy their health insurance
individually should expect to receive a cancellation letter over the next year.
That is an additional 7MM to 10.5MM canceled policies. BO LIED!DN, this does NOT violate your rules!!!!!!
"Part of the reason we have Obamacare is because Republicans could never
come together on a sensible free-market solution of their own to the healthcare
issue, ..." Problem is, there is no "free-market solution."
Moreover, the approach adopted by the Tea Party is one of sabotage. Sabotage
Obamacare at every step. Meanwhile people are suffering. Low income Americans
are cannon fodder for Republican sabotage. That's why the hatred of
Americans for government is mostly focused on Republicans.
Lost in DC,Because we made it our problem back in the Reagan years.
It's called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986.
You cannot be turned away from an emergency room due to lack of insurance. This
allows people to freeload on the system and folks DO freeload on the system. Or
they believe they self-insure (when adequate self-insurance is impossible for
all but the truly wealthy). Eventually these folks come to the public. Either
the taxpayers or to charity. Either way we are promoting people not
being responsible for themselves and their families. As I said, I will let
anyone off the hook who wants to sign a "let me die" contract that they
will NEVER take money from the public (taxpayer or charity) for their health
problems. Other than that, they need health insurance. If not, then they are
playing roulette with my money. That is NOT conservative.
patriot -- tort reform, interstate insurance, and health savings plans would all
ENHANCE the ACA. One doesn't need to throw out the ACA to get those
reforms. Have Republicans shown an actual alternative?
@RedShirtCalTech – “The best solutions to lowering healthcare costs
have come from private industry, not government.”That may be
but do you have any evidence that would support this claim – like one
country in the developed world that relies solely on the free market and private
industry? If the free market is the best solution to healthcare, surely we would
expect to see at least one country using this laissez faire model… just
one.@RedShirtCalTech – “To "Tyler D" ok, it
isn't regulations that raise the cost of healthcare. It is mandates on
insurance and taxes on medical devices combined with lawyers that sue
doctors…”I guess you didn’t read (or perhaps
understand) the rest of my comments. See the quote below as one example of the
canard your theories are (i.e., they’re all pikers compared to the real
cost drivers).An excerpt from a recent Johns Hopkins study: “In their review of malpractice payouts over $1 million, the
researchers say those payments added up to roughly $1.4 billion a year, making
up far less than 1 percent of national medical expenditures in the United
How entertaining to read Mike R. give another of his stirring renditions of the
Constitution in one breath and then go off on his "one man" jag. Surely
he blushes as he writes this stuff and we just can't see it. The "one
man" here happens to be the chief justice of the Supremes and the
Constitution does give that court the final say or am I giving it a liberal
reading? "One man" didn't do anything. A duly appointed and Senate
approved majority of the court said the law stands and that is the end of it
until another court in the future decides to alter it. Until then you can
entertain yourself reading the dissenting opinions on the matter and making your
case again how Romney really won the election because he won a majority of
counties in the USA.
To "marxist" I don't think you understand the "free
market". If the solution comes from the government, then it isn't
exactly a "free market" solution. That would be a fascist solution.For example, a few years ago some doctors tried to form a
"healthcare club" where the members paid a set monthly fee and had full
access to specific doctors for their healthcare. Their local governments shut
them down because they said that the club was acting like an insurance
company.IHC was opening "grocery store clinics" where you
could see a medical professional for minor medical problems for $35 to $50 with
no insurance required. That was another free market solution. Some clinics are
surviving, but they struggle under the administrative weight imposed by
government regulation.The free market has workable solutions. The
government has work destroying solution.
re:Joe5#1 the median profit margin for all industries in the U.S. is 2.2%.
Health insurance companies not only support ACA, they stand to do very well
when ACA is fully implemented. Question: what is the acceptable profit margin
when one is denying access to medical treatment? (btw the pharmaceutical and
medical equipment industries are among the highest profit margins in the U.S.)
#2 Unions still support ACA. One concern they have is that they
will lose union membership because people now have another option for obtaining
health insurance (rather than relying on union "muscle.") Another
concern was that some union health coverage falls under the "cadillac"
level of coverage and will become subject to taxes. #3 Most/all of
the criticism by liberals has been either a)the failure/problems of the federal
website or b) that reform was not single payer or include at least a public
option. Bottom line:States have the ability to enact their own
tort reform--as many states already have. States also have the ability to
devise their own universal health system. No doubt as is typical, when ACA
is fully implemented there could be additional areas needing improvement.
The reason Republicans couldn't come up with a truly free market healthcare
solution is... we haven't had a truly free market healthcare system for
over 50 years, and we have become addicted to the idea of getting someone else
to pay for our healthcare (yes, even people with insurance). So there's no
possible way to adopt a truly free market solution now.Part of the
problem is we have a whole generation of people now that have never had to pay
the full cost of a medical bill. Either their insurance pays it... or their
union pays it... or the government pays... or charity pays it.If
people were actually paying the bill... we would not be where we are today.
Because people would care and at least try to find the most economical solution
available... which drives costs down. Right now we don't care (because
insurance is paying for it, not us).My parents remember when they
actually paid their doctor bills. They were showing us the bill for their
first baby last week. Dr bill ($45.00), Hospital room ($15.00), anthologists
bill ($8.00), etc. Free market solution seemed to work back then... whats
To "Tyler D" lets compare your 1% of expenses to what mandates have done
to insurance prices.Lets see what regulation had done:From the AP "Study: Obama's health care law to raise claims cost 32
percent". Obamacare alone raised the cost of claims by 32%.Before the ACA was passed the CAHI did a report titled "HEALTH INSURANCE
MANDATESIN THE STATES" and found that 20% to 50% of the cost of health
insurance was due directly to mandates.According to the NIHCM the US
spends $850 billion on health insurance per year. Since 20% to 50% is due to
mandates, that means that government regulation accounts for $170 billion to
$425 billion spent on health insurance. I think that is more than the
malpractice payouts. That translates to 6.5% to 16.4% of total healthcare
spending in the US.Sorry, but it looks like the mandates are a
bigger problem than malpractice (yes malpractice should be fixed too). How
about we take care of the biggest problem first?The world's
leaders don't like the free market solutions because they have no control
over them. Look at the US prior to the 1980's as an example.
Grover, you could have added that it's ironic (laughable, actually) how Mr.
Richards extols the sacred, inviolate, and subject -to- only- his- narrow-
interpretation "Supreme Law of the Land" (the Constitution), and then
criticizes the ACA by reference to a mere public opinion poll purporting to show
that 59% of the people don't want it, ignoring, of course, that it was
passed by the legislative branch, signed into law by the executive, and ruled
constitutional by the Supreme Court, all of which are Constitutional processes.
And then he has the gall to praise Mike Lee for trying to dismantle that law by
decidedly unconstitutional means.
As a Veteran, Anyone who hurts or attacks America, Americans, or United
States citizens -- is an enemy of the State.Mike Lee and Ted Cruz
have hurt America, Americans, and the credibility of the United States,
therefore -- certainly falling into this catergory.It is my God
given Oath to do everything I can to defend us from guys like this, ALL
enemies, foreign OR Domestic.
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