Comments about ‘Mike Sorensen: Pac-12 may get more than its share of bowl berths’

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Published: Sunday, Oct. 27 2013 10:14 p.m. MDT

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CougarSunDevil
Phoenix, AZ

Spokane Ute, Uteology, and ChrisB,

You guys are trying to stand on the shoulders of the top teams of the conference. There is no doubt that the PAC 12 is a tough conference. But not from top to bottom. The bottom three teams (Utah, Colorado, and Washington State) hold the conference down. Oregon, USC, and UCLA have for years been the face of the Pacific conference. The runnin' YOUTHS are benefiting off of other teams success. When ESPN and other commentators talk about the Pacific conference and the strength therein, they are not talking about you. The runnin' YOUTHS are not in any way a strength to the Pacific conference. You tell BYU fans to take a dose of reality in their independence, now take some reality in yours. When people talk about how good the PAC-12 is, they are not talking about you. They just don't have time to list the nine schools that give the PAC it's strength.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

Mr. Plate

I have yet to see a single fact or statistic from you to back up your position. Oregon would throttle Texas A&M, but not Alabama; yet when the two schools played Alabama beat A&M 49-42. Fact! Non conference games are generally a meaningless joke; such as FSU vs. Miami, Notre Dame vs. Stanford, Alabama vs. Va. Tech, LSU vs. TCU, Clemson vs. Georgia, Oregon vs. Tennessee, Ohio St vs. Cal? None of the teams (Bama, Oregon St, Ohio St, FSU) in contention for the National Championship game, lost a non-conference game, yet these games are a joke? Oregon St must not have got the memo that there game vs. E. Washington was a "joke". Again, PAC 12 is 29-4 amd SEC is 32-7 in nonconferene games. Another Fact! They are very comparable to the SEC. You do understand the difference between a fact vs an opinion don't you? You seem to struggle with the concept. Go ahead and look up the scores of WSU vs. Auburn and Oregon vs. Tennessee for some more interesting Facts; which back up my position. A least counter with some type of statistic or fact.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@CougarSunDevil

You have no clue what you are talking about. Stick to BYU football.

Here's what ESPN had said about Utah:

"If this were a five-year projection, I think the Utes would be higher. But I also think they need to go through at least a full class cycle before they can really start climbing the Pac-12 hierarchy. Our preseason hype last season [2011] was misguided, and the Utes' lack of depth was exposed. It takes time to build not only a starting lineup that can win in the Pac-12, but also the depth behind those starters. The facility upgrades are a good step in the right direction."

BeSmart
Cheyenne, WY

Uteology
So you are saying you are on the same tier as Oregon, USC, and UCLA?
Cougar Sun devil is right Utah is not (yet they may become that)
He has a clue because he is right.
I want the Utes to do well.
But the last three years the Utes have shown nothing to prove they are top tier in the Pac

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@Sundevil

I find your posts very amussing. You come on here and bust on everything Utah. You do realize that Utah, WSU and Colorado are 8-1 in non-conference games don't you? The lone loss was to top 25 Auburn, at Auburn by WSU; 31-24. Now some of these wins were agains inferior opponents, something ASU is very familar with. I would be emabarassed to come on here under that screen name, and rank on any team after what the Refs gave ASU vs. Wisconsin. What has ASU ever done in the conference any way? Noooothing! Lost in the Rose Bowl like 14 years ago. No final 4, talk about bringing a conference down. Also, if you don't think that Utah, WSU and Colorado wouldn't beat Arkansas, Ole Miss and Kentucky; you are only kidding your self. BYU? the team that no conference will take? The team that can't beat thier bottom dwelling rival? Man it must be sad to be you.

CougarSunDevil
Phoenix, AZ

Uteology
Let me break down for you what ESPN said according to this Quote.

"If this were a five-year projection, I think the Utes would be higher. But I also think they need to go through at least a full class cycle before they can really start climbing the Pac-12 hierarchy."

This means Utah isn't good. How can you spin that any other way?

Our preseason hype last season [2011] was misguided, and the Utes' lack of depth was exposed. It takes time to build not only a starting lineup that can win in the Pac-12, but also the depth behind those starters. The facility upgrades are a good step in the right direction."

This quote was last year? in 2012? and you're using it as argument for this year? All you have done is confirmed what everyone else is saying, and everyone else is seeing, except those who wear crimson red colored goggles. Utah isn't good today. They MIGHT be good in five years. but they are not good TODAY.

Nice try at the spin. See you in two weeks.

MrPlate
Lindon, UT

@Uteology,

Did I say you quoted a fan? Aren't team members a loyal faction?

Following a loss to Florida in 2012, LSU Linebacker Kevin Minter says "It is Florida. The humidity is ridiculous."

Regarding the celebrations in the streets, am I limited to only significant wins on the first game of the season? Typical strategy for someone building a straw man argument - create parameters so narrow that no similar situations even exist, but I'll play your game anyway. You didn't stipulate any particular "fan base," although I suspect you'll come back with more restrictions.

After defending Division 1AA champion Appalachian State beat Michigan in their season opener, "the team flew back to an airport in Johnson City, Tenn., about 55 miles from campus. The team's four buses were greeted 10 miles from town by a caravan of fire trucks, police cars and ambulances." There's much more available online about their street celebrations.

Ok, these examples took about 2.5 minutes to find.

Apparently Cougar Nation is NOT the ONLY fan base in the entire nation that makes weather-related excuses for losing, and celebrates in the street after an awesome victory.

Don't be provincial.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Yes, Utah has been at the bottom of the Pac 12.

And byu has been below the team that has been at the bottom of the Pac 12.

If byu can't beat Utah, and Utah can't beat most pac 12 teams(except top 10 ranked Stanford)who WOULD byu beat?

Most Pac 12 teams > Utah > byu

Tell us how "bad" we are. You're WORSE.

LOL

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@Besmart

Let's look at his claim that "Utah, WSU and Colorado bring the conference down"; shall we? Per the Saragin Rankings:
#39 Utah; wins over #7 Stanford, @ #24 BYU and #41 Utah State
#47 WSU: win over #31 USC, 7 point loss @ #21 Auburn
#93 Colorado
8-1 in non-conference games, Average SOS = #15
Let's compare that to the bottom of the SEC
#53 Miss St.
#71 Arkansas
#83 Kentucky
7-4 in non-conference games, Average SOS = 27
Those three don't even come close to bringing the conference down. They prove how tough the conference is, top to bottom. I would challenge anyone to prove this statistically. Biased, and pointed opinions are one thing; statistics and facts are another.

CougarSunDevil
Phoenix, AZ

Spokane Ute

Interesting how you lump Utah with the other bottom dweller's non conference schedules. However, the Devil is in the details (pun intended). Non conference wins by the PAC -12 cellar dwellers

Washington St.
Auburn - Lost
Southern Utah - Win
Idaho -Win

Those are some powerhouses. You state Auburn as a top 25 team. I'll concede that if you concede that ASU only lost to two Top 25 teams (Notre Dame and Stanford), and BYU has a win over a top 25 team (Texas) but you won't let that happen.

Colorado's power non conference schedule

Colorado St - Win
Central Arkansas beauty and hair salon college - Win
Charleston southern culinary arts college - Win
Fresno state - Postponed (luckily)

And now the mighty Youths

Utah State (refs gave you that one) - win
Weber State win
BYU - (again refs gave you that one) - win

Great strength in that non conference slate.

ASU's win over Wisconsin? It's the same way Utah won against BYU with the same refs. So shouldn't I say that Utah fans boasting about that win is the same as ASU boasting about their Wisconsin win? I admit, Refs gave it to ASU. Can you admit it?

MrPlate
Lindon, UT

@Spokane Ute - that you need facts and statistics to show it proves nothing meaningful for top-quality teams to defeat a slew of Furmans and Nicholls States is enough to measure your football acumen. That you consider Cal to be a worthy measuring stick for Ohio State, again, says a lot. That you don't seem to know the difference between Oregon (as in University of) and Oregon St. is another indication (or, do you really believe Oregon St. is in contention for a national title?).

Fact - Pac12 teams played 38 non-conference games.
Fact - 22 of 38 games were against total cupcakes.
Fact - Only 4 of 38 are current AP top 25 teams.
Fact - Pac12 teams lost 3 of those 4 games against current AP top 25 teams.
Fact - Pac12 conference has ONE victory this year over AP top 25 non-conference teams.
Fact - only a homer believes Oregon would "throttle" Texas A&M.

Wow - facts really prove the Pac12 is clearly the toughest conference in the whole wide world!

Is that enough facts? 'Cause I could break it down more if you still have trouble understanding the difference between quality wins and cupcake victories.

DSB
Cedar Hills, UT

Spokane Ute

Let me get this straight. Oregon would not throttle Alabama, but since Alabama defeated Texas A&M in a shootout by one touchdown, then Oregon would clearly throttle Texas A&M, as a matter of FACT? Not sure I'm following your factual analysis.

Probably the lowest level of athletic intelligence is calculating that if Team A beats Team B by seven points, and Team C beats Team A by seven points (or, in this case Team C is thought capable of beating Team A by seven points), then Team C can beat (or throttle) Team B by 14 points. Seems to be your kind of math, Spokane.

Johnny Manzeil has never been throttled in college football, and has narrowly lost to a few very good teams. You might reasonably bet Oregon could beat them, but a throttling is highly unlikely.

Seems you're the one having trouble distinguishing between facts and fantasy.

pac12ute4life
Beverly Hills, CA

"Every football fan in American knows Utah is in the Pac 12

Your OWN recruit thought you were a division II program.

LOL!"

TRUTH. Utah is a national brand, recognized everywhere in the country. We recruit much better nationally than BYU, and we are regarded higher academically and athletically than BYU.

BYU and Utah State are regional schools (in a weak region, for that matter). Utah all the way. Bowl game this year Rose Bowl next year! Onward and Upward!

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@ Mr Plate

You appear to be getting very upset because the PAC 12 conference is rated #2 in the nation, right behind the SEC; and in some polls, slightly ahead. As far as the whole wide world goes, are you reffering to Canada? It's also sad that you have go the name calling route and call me a "Homer' because I believe Oregon would throttle Alabama. It's just my opinion. I also like the term cup cake. It seems to make you angry that PAC 12 schools play these games, but its acceptable that SEC (and everyone else) does. Take a deep breath, it will be all right. Not everyone is going to agree with you; nor with me. I had no idea that my position, backed up with facts and statistics, would upset you so much. Have a good evening!

BeSmart
Cheyenne, WY

@Spokane Ute
All I was saying that Utah is not at that level (yet they may become that)
I think the Pac-12 is much improved over three years.
I think from top to bottom they are the first or second best conference.
All I said is Utah is not at the same level as Oregon, etc.
I meant no offense.

MountainMan25
Salt Lake City, UT

Honestly, this Ute fan is fed up. It's time for a change, probably with respect to Whit, he just isn't cutting it.

We know from past years that Utah is capable of playing with the big boys, which is why it is frustrating to see our guys go out and lose year in and year out, to mediocre PAC 12 teams like Colorado and Arizona. I don't like the direction this team is headed - which appears to be an Arizona-like trajectory - no championships, rare bowl games, mediocrity (but at least AZ has basketball, but I digress).

Sure, the wins against BYU are nice, but to be honest a lot of those games could have gone either way, and if you look at the history of the series there are up and down streaks. Deep down I would like to see that the recent trend of BYU wins signifies a long-term dominance, given our new PAC 12 membership, but the fact that we have been getting beaten up in the PAC 12 doesn't give me a lot of hope. Time for a change.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

DSB

No trouble here. Now follow me closely. Mr. Plate stated that Oregon would thump Texas A&M, but not Alabama. I disagreed since Texas A&M only lost to Alabama 49-42; which is a fact. Looking at that score I stand by my position that Oregon would thump Alabama too. Now that's just my opinion, which really seems to have every one riled up. Throttle is a realative term; I would define that as a 21+ point victory. See, no problem distinguishing between facts and fantasy. In the future, you may want to read posts a little more carefully before calling some one out. I hope that helps.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Have any of you guys arguing with SpokaneUte watched Oregon this year? Look I'm an SEC fan, Georgia to be precise, but I think Oregon is the best team in the country...statistically and using the "eye test". Would Oregon throttle Alabama...I don't think so...no one has throttled the crimson tide in quite a while. But if you asked me to bet I would put the wager on Oregon to win that game. A lot can change between now and the end of the season but I think right now Oregon is the better team. In the end, that's nothing but my opinion...not facts, which is all any of us can give right now...conjecture.

My opinion is that the SEC is the strongest conference from top to bottom, and the computers and power rankings back that up. 9 NCs in the last decade, including 7 in a row back up their dominance at the top. That said, it's my opinion that THIS YR Oregon would give Bama everything they can handle and then some.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@MrPlate

First I said "Blame the rain for the loss". The rain not heat.

"The humidity is ridiculous." Minter went to the locker room for intravenous fluids during the third quarter; Florida scored its first touchdown while Minter received treatment.

Did Hill leave the game for treatment? To dry off?

My bad, I forgot about Appalachian State, a D2 school. Ironically, they actually beat a final ranked team (AP #18). Legacy program down south, acts like a D2 school? Priceless!

What else did you find in your 2.5 minute of research?

For entertainment purposes, please list the other teams that celebrated a 1-0 Quest.

Marked it Down
Park City, UT

pac12ute4life

Fiction: "Utah is a national brand, recognized everywhere in the country. We recruit much better nationally than BYU, and we are regarded higher academically and athletically than BYU."

Truth: Utah is a regional/commuter school that is barely recognized outside of the Mountain West. Even PAC 12 schools are still adjusting to Utah being a member of their conference. Utah recruits Utah, California and Texas, and only a handful of recruits elsewhere.

Academically, Utah has great research, but its undergraduate programs pale in comparison to BYU.

Athletically, BYU has finished significantly ahead of Utah in 20 of 20 National Association of Directors of College Athletics (NADCA) Directors' Cup standings (recognizes overall athletic excellence across all men's and women's sports).

Average NADCA finish and points for the last 20 years
BYU 30th, 519 points; highest 12th; lowest 47th
Utah 63rd, 269 points; highest 37th; lowest 87th

BYU's AVERAGE finish is higher than Utah's HIGHEST finish.

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