@NeilTYou're in the minority. Therefore, your view is extremist
in comparison to the majority in this state. Kudos to those who recognize the
long-term harm that will come from the open-border, illegal immigration policy
of the left. Doug Wright? Give me a break. Doug doesn't have the guts to
stand up for what's right. He gets paid to shape public opinion and does so
with the low-information types. He's a paid propagandist.
@NeilT:Sorry to disappoint you, but that theory doesn't fly with me.
You will note that with more than 12 million illegal immigrants here we
still can't find enough of these hard working people to do these farm jobs
either. Many of these crops could be harvested quickly by existing
machines designed for that purpose. However it sounds a whole lot better to say
"I can't find any laborers" than it does to say "I refuse to
buy a machine to do the work". Besides with the machine you have to spend a
lot of money, but if you can underpay workers you save a fortune that goes in
I saw the movie, "Now You See Me". I know how this all works. Perhaps
the real diversion is who really wants the cheap labor?Who is really
directing? Is it the consumers who demand cheaper stuff? They who "deserve
it" because they worked hard to push their employers to pay all these extra
benefits and higher wages without giving more value to the company, so they
deserve it. I won't forget the little business owner who worked so hard to
become big, by creating the illusion that brings the most money from the
community while giving little value as possible back. Their money is so
important that they would choose it over value, in the end.With all
this irresponsibility, the law is not the problem nor the solution.Yeah, Americans who master avoiding responsibility. Find the power. Take
responsibility. If you want them cherries, start picking them cherries.
Sorry my last post was accidentally sent before I finished. Most immigrants
have a incredible work ethic. And if anyone believes Americans are willing to
do farm labor you are delusional. I was raised on a farm. Couldn't find
help other than friends from our LDS ward that helped out of charity more than
necessity. The anti-immigration fervor is more about nationality and skin color
as opposed to economics or rule of law. Hitler blamed all of Germany's
economic woes on the Jewish. We know how well that turned out. Kudos to
KSL's Doug Wright for standing up to the extremists on immigration
Everyone wants someone else to fix their problem.We enjoyed
inexpensive tomatoes in the 80's and 90's due to the illegal farm
workers. Sad today to have to pay over $4 millin per day in emergency room
visits by illegal immigrants. Cheap tomatoes turned out to be not so cheap.There is a way of immigrating to this country legally and I know several
who have. Those who are not here legally make a mock of our laws.Solve the problem by enacting a law where any employer caught with an illegal
is fined $50,000 for a first offense and $100,000 for a second offense. Problem
solved very shortly.Utah can be a leader in obeying the law within
our own state. Instead when illegals are pulled over without a drivers license
they are allowed to keep driving. Utah can do much to enforce the existing laws
but instead they moan and complain to the federal government expecting them to
solve our problems.They sound like the people they love to resent,
those with their hand out asking for help
Yep what we need is different laws, ones that the government could ignore like
the ones we have now. As always government is the problem and has been for
years. NO EMFORCEMENT!
Of course this is about cheap labor -- and boundless, profound Greed on the part
of those who want cheap labor, but who could care less about society around them
and how their anti-enforcement, pro-illegal immigration, pro-cheap labor efforts
harm it and its children.
@DN Subscriber 2:"I do NOT understand why the need for workers cannot
be met by requiring the idle people receiving welfare to do the work."It's called socialism and securing the Democrat vote."It used to be that if a person was hungry, they got a job. Now they just
get a handout."The guy can make more on unemployment and other
government handouts (food stamps, etc.) than he can working. That takes away
the majority of the incentive to work.@Fitness FreakSalt Lake
City, UT"Why would we want to legalize (and legitimize) 30 million
'new' illegal trespassers when we already have so many of our OWN
citizens out of work?"Two words: Democrat vote.
I don't understand why he said it isn't about cheap labor, and then
went on to show that it is only about that. If I could get the same pay as
bagging groceries, I would rather pick cherries. Actually I'm a software
engineer now so I get a little more than that.
@Ernest T. Bass:"We need immigrants working here."What
we need more than helping some poor immigrant with a job is to get our own
citizens employed. We have 14 million unemployed Americans sitting home
watching TV drawing billions in unemployment benefits. We need to get these
people to work somehow.Look, a guy from Chicago, Ill. or Biloxi,
Miss. could go to the country and ride a horse herding sheep all summer sending
his salary home to his wife and kids just as easily as a guy from Peru. Think
Farm wages along with hospitality and other occupations, filled by cheap labor
illegal aliens, are depressed below a decent living standard for Americans.
However, if you are poor and living in a hovel in a poor country these these
wages look good to you, and create the desire to move to a country with a higher
living standard. Often even the poor in the U.S. live better than the middle
class in many countries.I suggest a reading of "Subsistence Wage
Theory" also known as the "Iron Law of Wages." (Lassalle &
Richardo) Labor always moves to a place with higher wages, until this flood of
labor creates an over supply and then due to the laws of supply and demand wages
are then suppressed to below subsistence levels, or in a country like the USA to
wage levels that will require government subsistence. In order to
protect American workers, the first step should be nationwide use of E-Verify
and enforcement to prevent employers from hiring the cheapest labor that they
can find. An over supply of illegal labor has made it impossible for Americans
to work on farms & ranches and make a decent living for their family.
A few years ago I rode my mountain bike up Millcreek Canyon to Puke Hill via the
Great Western Trail. I met a sheepherder up there. He was from Peru. He
didn't speak english and I don't speak Spanish but we were able to
communicate on a basic level. I found out he had a wife and kids back in Peru. I
could tell he missed them and would have liked to have been home with them but
he was half a world away, working to support them. I was happy he was here, able
to work to send money home. I imagine when he returned he told them stories of
how wealthy the US is. His kids probably dream of seeing the US one day.I
gave him a candy bar and road my bike back down the Wasatch Crest trail. We need immigrants working here. They aren't leaches on society any more
than wealthy tax cheats are. Corporate welfare is far worse than a sheepherder
trying to survive.
I think that some of the reasons that they can't find workers is because
there isn't enough awareness of where the jobs are available. I know
growing up that I would have enjoyed working outdoors. But I never heard of any
jobs and didn't know where to look. I think like many teenagers, they
don't know how to find those jobs.
say no to bo: Your twisted logic is wrong, the problem that needs fixing is
aligning poor but willing workers with willing employers, not "enforcing the
law" like you post, present policy is bad and it needs to be changed in the
direction of allowing immigrants a real path to work and to citizenship. We
need to end your view of using the law's boot on the neck of poor
immigrants. You are the poster child for what's wrong with continuing the
present (non) immigration policy. Say No to say no to bo.
one voteIt's not anti-immigrant, it's anti illegal alien.
There is a big difference. I think people need to be honeest about which we are
talking about. I worked in the business with one of the quoted farmers
neighbors. Why force people to work labor intensive jobs that are underpaid,
compared to other labor intensive workers? Hutterite, Labor is only 7% of the cost of lettuce. Double their wages and we end up
paying 6-9 cents more per head. Or we could force government to
enforce and deport the H-2A workers that leave the farms, fixing the problem
quite easily. H-2A visas are unlimited, but doubled in price in Obama's
first year. Their cost could be cut in half like they were in 2008. Tart cherry tree "shakers" have been in use since the 60's.
one voteWhy should we accept the premise that two jobs are required to
subsist in today's economy? That may be true if you have not taken
advantage of the educational/vocational opportunities available or if you have
chosen a career in a dying technology or have not maintained your education
current. Those are all personal choices and choices, as well as actions, have
consequences. Without cheap labor, the cost of produce would rise until
the market price drives the implementation of automation, at which point prices
would plummet. The false forcing of farm supports inhibits this technological
evolution. I would love to see someone develop a cherry picker that could
be run from a video display. We have a whole generation of already trained
gamers who can fill that role.
It may seem ironic, but the long term solution is for more Northamericans to
immigrate into Mexico and South America facilitated by treaty of recipical
agreement. The weather and living is wonderful south of the boarder; so quit
your gripping and start packing, and push your govrnment for favorable treaties
Lettuce would simply be unaffordable otherwise.
All anti-immigrant writers without a second job should apply for work on
evenings and weekends in farms and ranches.
There has been much in the media lately regarding raising the minimum wage,
providing a "workable wage", etc.We need look no further
than the flood of illegal trespassers to intuitively SEE the problem with a
"government solution" regarding labor rates.IF existing
immigration laws EVER get enforced; you'll naturally see a rise in labor
rates.Why would we want to legalize (and legitimize)30 million
"new" illegal trespassers when we already have so many of our OWN
citizens out of work?
DN Subscriber 2Do you approve off the taxpayers subsidizing business
with cheap labor by allowing families here illegally to collect welfare (through
their children) and pay for their schooling? Praise the business that uses the
H-2a visa, and condemn the government for not enforcing visa laws.Is
it right to force people to work in labor extensive jobs, that other business
owners pay much more? Sounds like a form of slavery. And then there is the 29
hour Obama work week.
Okay, I understand we need more agricultural workers.I also
understand we have MILLIONS of U.S. citizens collecting welfare checks for doing
no work at all.I do NOT understand why the need for workers cannot
be met by requiring the idle people receiving welfare to do the work.Oh, yeah, life on the welfare plantation is an entitlement, and to expect
recipients to actually work or lose the benefits would be .....It
used to be that if a person was hungry, they got a job. Now they just get a
handout.A;most no one on welfare would hold up to the work demands and
schedule that most farmers and ranchers perform their entire lives. These
producers would not even think of asking for a handout without at least offering
to work for it.We know than many of the illegal immigrants are
willing to do the hard work. Perhaps we need to just cut off the welfare to any
U.S. citizen who will not work, and let the immigrants come anyway.
One thing is absolutely certain, the Deseret News (and likely its parent
company) doesn't have the guts to have an open discussion regarding the
pros and cons of open borders and sanctioning illegal immigration. Nor do they
have the guts to explain the REAL reasons they feel it's necessary to issue
one-sided propaganda in favor of both. Simple math. If you have 100
jobs in a closed society, but let in twenty workers who'll work for less,
the result will be 20 former workers out of a job. Simple logic. If
you ignore the violation of laws by one group, they will not respect the other
existing laws nor any new laws. Further, it breeds anarchy.Another
simple logic. If you take property from one person and give it to another, you
will create hostility. Finally, if you keep changing your story
regarding your support for illegal immigration, you're disingenuous...and
only the low-information types will fall for it. And that seems to be your
@prelax:"People can come here on visas, and then skip out on the
farmers, knowing the government won't make much of an effort to deport
them."Illegals don't even have to come on visas anymore.
All they need do is ask for asylum at the border and they are accepted by the
border patrol, put up in a motel with a swimming pool awaiting a court hearing.
Then, after a month or two they disappear somewhere into the interior. And when
they get settled they have Obama to thank for his illegal (and unlawful) amnesty
program.This guy's shooting for open borders not only for more
Democrat voters but to open the door for mid east Muslim immigration. Whoa!
Could Shariah be on its way?
More of the same "flood the market with cheap labor" so that the bulk of
the profits flow to the top few percent. No wonder we have an unprecedented
wealth gap, and growing exponentially, in this nation right now -- and we want
to make it worse by importing even more workers? This can only make sense to
those at the top raking in all the profits, but is detrimental to all else.
The article states that it isn't about "cheap labor," but that is
exactly what it is about. Often only immigrants from poor agricultural regions
in poor Latin countries(especially Mexico) are willing to take agricultural jobs
at pathetically low wages. Yes higher wages would cause increases in food costs,
but not inflation since food and fuel are not part of the inflation index.
Seasonal labor(harvesting crops) is not a problem since H2A visas for this are
unlimited, but illegal labor is even cheaper. Not only have millions
of agricultural jobs been lost, but tens of millions of unskilled jobs have been
lost to mechanization, automation, off-shoring, and reduction in military force
numbers. Wages need to rise in agriculture, hospitality, and blue collar jobs
in general if the United States is going to be able to absorb a population
growth each year of over 2 million.Wages are a product of supply and
demand. Millions of Americans presently work in agriculture and millions more
would if wages were better. Many of the the young people from rural areas would
love to take jobs on farms and ranches if they could make a decent living.
The problem goes much deeper than immigration. Even people here illegally have
moved to the cities. There are jobs just as hard as ranch and farm work that
have no problem getting help. In another article from a Utah media
source in July, the farmer from Payson said their sweet cherry crop fell
half-short due to frost and poor pollination. Which is it? Lack of labor or
frost and poor polination?The lack of immigration enforcement, and
not deporting visa breakers hurts the farmers. People can come here on visas,
and then skip out on the farmers, knowing the government won't make much of
an effort to deport them.
Say No brings up a tangental point unintentionally, that ties in with the story.
The current U.S. residents don't pick up these jobs in enough quantity.
One problem could be the pay scale that's offered for the job. If the
border is more securely enforced, the issue with labor will become more acute.
The current minimum wage is low enough that the resources needed to get to and
from some of these jobs exceeds the take-home pay. Raise the wage offered and
you'll see more takers. It will result in higher prices, but at least in
the food area, it will be an alternative to not having the food available at
all.Now as for pushing out those who's ancestry is foreign
born... I hear a few people would like to set that limit to around 1492?
Poster children are so exceptional.They don't have a string of DUIs.
They don't have anchor babies. They don't bring their children. Heck,
they didn't even bring their wives.Such a neat and tidy story.Give us those SCP visas (Sweet Cherry Pickers) and SH (Sheep Herder) visas.
Give us the CM (Cow Milker) visas.The trouble is the BS.ONE THIRD of
all foreign-born are here illegally. Let's fix the problem by enforcing the
law. Get a sponsor with a job for you and stay three years. That's fine.
But this has nothing to do with the guy on a landscape truck or the lady who
cleans offices. The hotels don't need chambermaids and busboys. We've
got our own people to do that.