Gov Herbert is right, Sen Lee doesn't deserve all the blame for the
shutdown. Sen Cruz gets some of it too.
Standing up for your beliefs means voting for the bills with which you agreee
and against those with which you disagree, NOT holding the government (or the
people who depend on it) hostage if the Senate doesn't vote the way that
Here is more truth:Obama refused to compromise.Reid
refused the compromise,The extreme left controlling the democrat
party refused to compromise.Lee and Crus offered compromises to fund
the government and to end the stalemate.Obama and the extreme left
democrat party refused any compromise, And continued to blame theor most ardent
opponents for everything.Further more, Obama instructed federal
employees to make the shutdown as painful on the American people as possible
which included bullying 90 year old WW2 vets.The establishment GOP
worrying more about elections and gaining power and favor, political expediency,
than doing what is right for the American people also attacked those same
people.The useless GOP establishment got their way, and they
compromised.And now we hear from he equally shameful Utah GOP
establishment, who care amore about their party than the American people or
citizens of Utah.Lee and Cruz are right.And are true
According to an article I read from a Harvard Professor, It would have been
Obama's call to default, not Congress'. Although the 14th Ammendment
requires the President to pay all our debt. The article specified that there
would be enough money to pay for 2/3rds of the government's obligations
without raising the debt ceiling. President Obama would have had to determine
which programs would be cut back. I am not sure if he would have been up for the
task, but he would have been required by law to pay on the national debt first.
Obama's claim that the government would default on that debt was a lie. Why
Congress didn't call him on it is puzzling to me. Boehner gave up the only
wedge Congress had to press not only for defunding Obamacare, but for a balanced
budget as well. In January we may see the whole thing played out again, because
the Democrats will not budge on their programs even to balance the budget. Why
would they? They can blame it all on the Republican House for shutting down the
government... Congress needs to put their foot down and just say "NO".
lost in DC,"So why do you support BO"? Ummmm who said I did
(other than you)? I by no means love everything this current president has
done. I think the key thing that the current folks on the far right fail to
understand is the definition of compromise. See if you and I were to comprise
you would get a little of what you want and lose a little of what you want, I
would do the same. Together we would agree on what the middle ground looked
like. The current republican definition of compromise is I will tell you that I
am giving up something, and I will tell you what you need to give up. I
don't really view that as compromise. I don't love the ACA, but it
does some good things, and quite frankly I haven't seen the republicans
come up with a legitimate plan to resolve the health care crisis and yes we have
one.As I said before I am a compassionate conservative, which at
this point makes it hard for me to be a republican or a democrat. By the way I support all Presidents of the United States.
Re:LostinDCBefore the shutdown, Democrats in both the House and Senate
agreed to keep current spending/sequestration levels despite being opposed to
those levels. So to say Dems or Obama weren't willing to compromise is
just false. Additionally--Senate Democrats had asked House leaders numerous
times to conference with them on the budget between March and the shutdown to no
avail. Clearly the plan by the Tea Party caucus, led by Cruz and
Lee, was to avoid real negotiation but use the budget and debt ceiling deadlines
as extra leverage to force the Senate and Pres. Obama, to delay/defund
Obamacare. It was a reckless, irresponsible, ignorant plan and has damaged
Republican's standing among a majority of voters.
Re:holymoly"I don't doubt Clinton came up with it in her
Primaries."Setting the record straight.It was not
Hillary or her campaign staff that floated the birther conspiracy.That theory first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton SUPPORTERS
circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama’s citizenship.But while the identity of the First Birther is lost to the mists of chain
email, one of the first to put his name to the theory was Phil Berg, a former
Pennsylvania deputy attorney general who had spent the previous years accusing
President George W. Bush of complicity in the Sept. 11 attack.Berg
filed a complaint in federal District court on Aug. 21, 2008, that alleged,
“Obama carries multiple citizenships and is ineligible to run for
President of the United States. United States Constitution, Article II, Section
Bungalow,Facts are not changed by opinion polls. Just because the
majority of people believed the earth was flat did not make it so. Just because
the majority of physicians once believed draining a patient of their blood cured
them did not make it so.The facts are the GOP house passed
legislation to keep the government open and harry would not allow it to be voted
on in the senate and BO threatened to veto it.You say Lee needs to
be rehabilitated because he refused to compromise and reach across the aisle.
Why do you not say the same thing about harry and BO? They refused to
compromise and reach across the aisle.holymoly,The larger
point is I hear nothing but criticism from liberals and the media every time we
elect the GOP to ANY position.Does the GOP bear some blame? Sure,
for being so naïve they didn’t recognize that the DNC and their MSM
tools would blame them for a crisis BO and harry created. See second paragraph
Governor Herbert is not falling in line with Mike Lee's thinking! He must
be a socialist!! We need to gert rid of him in the primary election!!!(Said dripping with sarcasm....)
@lost in DCI think you are missing my point. I was making the point
the Tea Party propagated the Birth Certificate fiasco. I don't doubt
Clinton came up with it in her Primaries.The larger point is I hear
nothing but criticism from our conservative base every time we elect a Democrat
president, but I see similar things when we have a Republican president.Vacation Days so far (In same time frame): Obama:96, Bush2:367,
Clinton:84, Reagan:180Percent change in total debt: Reagan: 218%, Bush1:
55%, Clinton: 37%, Bush2: 86%, Obama: 34%. Disregarding percentages, Obama takes
the lead in total debt accumulated with 6 trillion versus Bush2 at 5
trillion.Presidents Asked to provide a birth certificate: Reagan: no,
Bush1: no, Clinton: no, Bush2: no, Obama: yesParties who would not
compromise on Debt Ceiling: Democrats: yes, Republicans: yesObama is
taxing us to death (Tax rates by president for Single, 50,000 income,
inflation-adjusted): Reagan:19%, Bush1:18.9%, Clinton:18.9%, Bush2:17.2%, Obama:
17.1%I don't think the independent voter will be won over by
the Tea Party as long as their message is "This is Obama's fault."
Good ol' boys like hatch and herbert make those of us who love our country
and disgusted by 'politics as usual' disenchanted with the GOP. It is
no longer that "Grand" of a party. It is disfunctional. It mirrors the
exact misrepresentation that the democrat/socialist party exhibits. There are
not a whole lot of differences between the two. The people are fed up with both
parties and the fact that even the GOP stalwarts are dissing Tea Party members
as 'crazies' is unbecoming an elected representative. Perhaps it is
time a third party is formed. I for one am tired of the likes of Hatch and his
rhetoric. In my opinion, he has been in the Senate 25 years too long and now
enjoys all the perks and benefits and power that is granted to said position. Is
it deserving? No. Serve for a term and then re-enter the workforce.
Fred44,The founders compromised. did BO or harry? NO!! as for pledging
sacred honor, for harry or BO to do so, they would need some. You say you
support reasoned principled people who work together to solve problems –
so why do support BO? He is NOT reasoned, NOT principled, and unwilling to work
with anyone who does not just go along with what he wantsDot,So rather than refute their claims, you just say they are out with them. I
guess that’s because you cannot refute what they say.Holymoly,You question from 7:15 was answered – it was the Hillary
This is disingenuous headline. Judging from the text, the DN is putting words
in Herbert’s mouth. The very first quote from Herbert they include says
blame goes all around, but the DN’s headline says Herbert is placing blame
solely on Lee and the repubs. Starting your campaign for Lee’s opponent a
little early, aren’t you, DN?The repubs did not attempt to
shut down government, they attempted to defund obamacare, which the dems used as
an excuse to shut down the government so their tools in the media could scare
the ill-informed about a debt default and blame the GOP.DN, stop
lying about a debt default – there is more than enough revenue to service
the debt.Utexmom, bungalow, mcdugall, Sophie62, NeilTSee
second paragraph above. And bungalow, obamacare is INSURANCE, not health care.
Their efforts do nothing to stop healthcare.Mcdugall,10 X
enough for debt service is enough for essential services AFTER debt service.
A gee bungalow, in 1814, the founding fathers did default on the federal
i love the fact those two people stood up and said no to obamacare i wish we had
100 more like them
@the truthI wanted to understand our differences... I claimed Tea
Party prior talking points have included:Obama has no birth
certificate, was Muslim, caused the recession, is a Socialist, Wants American
society to collapse, Is a lazy president because he takes vacations, Wants to
eliminate the second amendment, is responsible for the debt, etc."You claim I am wrong and instead... Obama is a Communist, aligns himself with
terrorists, takes lavish vacations and hosts lavish parties, Obama has caused
our recession to endure, wants extreme Gun Control and is against individual
liberties in every aspect of our lives.Here is where we disagree:I believe Obama is not a communist. I believe he is against terrorism, I
believe in 2008 the policies Bush/Obama implemented might have squelched a
potential Depression. I believe decreased regulation in the banking industry
helped create the bubble/recession. I believe the endurance of the recession has
been caused in part from Americans not saving. I believe *most* of the
legislation Obama proposes regarding gun control are reasonable, especially
improved background checks. I do not believe Obama wants to take away my
liberties.When can we talk about the Debt?
The tea party planned it for unfair leverage. Senator Lee should resign. The
Governor just doesn't want to be harassed.
@Doogie & @the truthIf you are suggesting Tea Party/Libertarian
candidates did not propagate the ideas Obama had no birth certificate, or that
he was fighting against our second amendment rights, or that he was not a
Christian, etc... then we disagree. I am happy to listen to you, but I am
remembering the last presidential campaigns differently than either of you.If the Tea Party wasn't propagating these ideas, who was? Are you
suggesting the liberal media? If so, why were the Tea Party candidates aligning
themselves with these ideas? If what you are saying is true, the Tea Party needs
to refocus its message because all I hear is constant criticism of Obama. I
would love to hear from the Tea Party, real solutions for our debt problem, but
don't preface our discussion with how terrible Obama is.At
least I find solace in the fact that it appears neither of you as apparent
conservatives agree with any of the talking points such as the birth
certificate, Obama's after our 2nd amendment rights, Obama's no
Christian, Obama caused our debt problems, etc... since you were adamant in
rejecting my claims.
We'll ladies and gentlemen, with so much support noted here for Cruz and
Lee on this thread, all I can say is that this will encourage them to do their
mischief once again after the first of the year when the budget will be on the
table again... I'd expect we'll be back to another economic crisis.
The future looks very unstable.Sadly, the GOP has become a loose
cannon that will continue to create economic showdown and crisis again and
again, making it hard for businesses to have assurances about the future to
invest in new products/technologies, hire people, and make plans for profits
going forward. With ObamaCare in place, at least businesses can work
with it and made decisions accordingly. With the GOP's next mischief to
try to change everything again, the GOP will jeopardize business investments and
decisions... what we need is stability and less risk in politics and the market.
The GOP, unfortunately, add risk and instability in the
marketplace, making it hard to move forward in America's economic recovery.
banderson,What I stand for a reasoned principled men and women who
work together to solve the problems of America. I realize those are short
supply if they even exist on either side of the aisle. I consider myself a
compassionate conservative which in the past made me part of the republican
party. But in the last five years ago, the republican party has left me. I voted for Ronald Reagan, and I believed in "trickle down"
economics. However 30 years later, not much has trickled down. This has been a
great 30 year period for the wealthy and a bad thirty year period for the middle
class and the poor. We have debt we cannot sustain, we have a healthcare
problem that was there before the Affordable Healthcare Act. We have a jobs
problem, we have a trade imbalance that needs to be corrected, etc. etc. and we
don't have anyone in Washington that cares as much about the American
people as they do their political career.If I had my way I would get
rid of all 535 members of congress and start over. Something has to change and
Lee and Cruz are not change.
I'm voting Lee...
Fred 44: However you view Mike Lee or Ted Cruz, I'd be interested in what
you stand for that is any different than what has already been espoused and
tried by the Democratic and Republican parties that has done nothing except
destroy liberty and pushed us to a debt load that will ultimately destroy our
country. Any takers! Something has to change, but if you think that change is
going to come from a democratic or republican leader, you need to look at the
MGB Which party controls the House of Representatives? The shutdown
accomplished absolutely nothing and punished hard working Americans who were
caught in the middle. The tragedy of all of this is that Republicans had an
opportunity to fix the health care crisis when their party was in power and
chose to do nothing. And yes their is a crisis. Name one other product or
service that is so expensive it would bankrupt 95% of the population if they had
to pay for it their own pocket. Millions of Americans priced out of health
care and denied insurance due to circumstances behind their control is not the
Perhaps they had no chance of achieving their stated goals, but it worries me
that Democrat and Republican alike - for the most part, seem to have no
difficulty with constantly raising the debt ceiling. We're out of money --
no problem, we'll raise the debt limit. Government workers want yet
another raise -- no problem, we'll raise the debt limit. We've thrown
a few billion dollars at the AFA and it doesn't work, no problem,
we'll just spend more money and eventually it has to work.Someone comes along -- trying something, anything, to get spending under
control and now, we're not sure about them anymore -- they dared to tell
the emperor that his entire system was exposed and now we must turn our backs on
them, and of course, raise the debt limit.
Lee and Cruz have no fault in the shutdown. They both supported the original
constitutionally passed funding bill passed by the House. It was Harry Reid,the
Senate Democrats, Obama, and many RINO Republicans who would rather shut down
the government then see Obama care defunded. Gov. Herbert is as uninformed as
most of the people about the constitutional process of funding or not funding
certain acts or laws. It all originates in the House of Representatives.
You are always a winner when you do what is right. You may not always be a
winner financially . Mike has the courage to do what is right. Thanks Mike
Those of you posting in favor of Lee and Ctuz were not, I'll bet, among the
people who lost serious money because of their shenanigans.The little
power trip they went on hurt so many people. Thousands in this state alone, if
not millions nationwide. Do they, and you, really believe they're the only
ones with principles? If that's what you and they think, then you
aren't paying attention.There's another side to this
debate besides the Tea Party's, and it has just as much validity (in my
opinion far more) than the far conservative side. The 'Comapssionate
Conservatism' that used to be part of the Republican Party is blasted to
smithereens by the likes of Cruz and Lee, and apparently most of you.I
wonder what Jesus thinks of the extreme right Republican lack of caring for the
less fortunate. It bears no resemblance to the Christianity I was raised with
and which even now comes from the pulpit at Conference.
Looks like the Tea party is out again with all their rhetoric. Either that, or
the Democrats are writing letters, acting as Tea Partyers, supporting Lee so he
will get re-elected next time. And to compare them to the founding fathers ---
good grief! Ask the people who have businesses in Federal park areas in the
State that lost tons of money during the shutdown, and others who won't get
back wages, how happy they feel about their tactics.....
I whole-heartedly support Senator Lee. Only 17% of the entire federal government
was "shut down" during this period. Unfortunately it affected Utah alot
because so much of our state is under federal control. I'm so disappointed
by Senator Hatch's actions in the argument against Obamacare. He is not
willing to stand up for regular Americans at all.
For the record the founding fathers went behind closed doors to hammer out the
constitution. None of them got everything they wanted, they had to compromise,
and NONE of them played political games for the public like Lee and Cruz did
with their non filibuster whatever it was. From the Declaration of
Independence "we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes,
& our sacred Honor." These were men who understood the magnitude of the
moment and rose to it. Lee and Cruz failed to understand the magnitude of the
moment, they chose to play politics rather than be part of something great.
They chose to shine the spotlight on them, they chose to be part of the problem
rather than part of the solution.I wish for true patriots who were
willing to pledge their sacred honor to resolve the problems of this country.
@holy molyBefore you make outlandish and obviously false claims
about the tea party, you should get the facts first. The tea party
DOESN'T care about obama's birth certificate, that came from the
hilary Clinton primary campaign,They DON'T care about his
religion, though Obama has brought the radical muslim group the Muslim
Brotherhood into his administration, and allies himself with muslim terrorists
and wants to send arms to them in syria,Obama isn't a
socialist, but a revolutionary Marxist, and certainly a communist, which
isn't surprising since his parents and grandparents are communist,Not lazy, but does take rather lavish vacations and hosts lavish parties while
the americam people are suffering,Obama didn't cause the
recession but has allowed it to endure with his economic policies.Obama Is against the second amendment and want extreme gun control,Obama
is against individual liberty and for big government control in every aspect of
our lives,(uses the IRS to bully, used NSA to spy on the american
people, and renewed the patriot act, taxies heavily)Obama is
responsible for his portion of the debt, Tea party is right.
So people like Herbert and Hatch join with the liberals in concluding that Mike
Lee and Ted Cruz caused the Barry-Harry "shutdown" (slowdown) of
government. Give me a break. What we have is a bunch of old dog RINOs who
think they're going to win more elections by being liberal-lite.
They're so concerned about their reputation that they don't have one.
What they DO have is a great fear of criticism from naive and ignorant citizens
who are jumping to side with the socialistic/communistic liberals, who in turn
believe that government should monitor and control every facet of every living
thing. And let's quit calling these people "progressives." I know
they prefer that name, but their REGRESSIVE policies are eroding and destroying
everything good we have here and every hope for a brighter future. Their ideas
and philosophies have been routinely and repeatedly proven wrong throughout
history. I say let's get some new blood in government . . . people who can
actually recognize that we're in trouble when we're
$17,000,000,000,000 in the hole and have a president who hates the Constitution
and history of the United States.
Lee and Cruz will be footnotes of idiocy and to compare them to the founding
father shows a an ignorance of history.Madhatters and egotistical
men with nothing to offer but radio interviews and partisan baloney.Boener's last minute rule change, wasn't sneaky or underhanded at
all.A man with character would act the same in his personal life as
his professional. Lee has proven to be more interested in Fame than fiscal
responsibility at home and in Washington.
Lee and Cruz remind me of the Charley Brown cartoon of the football set to kick.
Lee and Cruz are not in any league with the founding fathers. Lee
and Cruz stunk up the place with their terrible tactics, they need more than
rehab, they need to remove their rose colored glasses and actually interact with
other people with other ideas in the room. Put away the grenades, Lee and Cruz.
Shine up your Biggest Loser trophy, Lee and Cruz. We can change
the ACA, but not by following your recent "bridge to nowhere".
It shocks me that individuals in Utah, especially the Deseret News, are so upset
at Mike Lee. What Lee did was brilliant. People need to take a step back and
look at the big picture, along with the strategy. I won't go into details
on here, but if you properly analyze where the attention has come from, and
where it was directed, you will realize that this was brilliant. Lee and Ted
Cruz also shook up the republican establishment. This is crucial, and it has to
be done to spotlight corruption that is occurring there. I think that many
people in Utah have a very naive view of the media. They are too trusting. They
believe that the media tries to be objective. They believe that there might be a
slight bias, but overall they really do care about fair, concerned news. These
are the same people who genuinely believe that the media loves mormons as well.
I hope people start waking up and realize that the main stream media hates
republicans and religious individuals. Wake. up. Utah. And stop blaming
conservatives for Romney's lost as well. Blame the democrat party and the
"Unfortunately, the Tea Party's other talking points have included:
Obama has no birth certificate, was a Muslim, caused the economic recession on
his first day in office, is a Socialist, Wants American society to collapse, Is
a lazy president because he takes vacations, Wants to eliminate the second
amendment, is responsible for the entire debt, etc."This
statement shows how misinformed the low information voter is and why the
progressives rule the land. I think people ought to educate themselves about
what true patriots the the Tea Party is and seek the truth before they
regurgitate what the mainstream media says! The reason the Republican party is
taking such a hit is that they have no backbone to stand up to the moral and
economic decline of our nation. It is business as usual for the Boys in
Washington...hopefully not for long!
Add Governor Herbert to the list of those lacking the courage to stand up to
relentless spending by the Federal Government! First of all, it is
worth reminding ourselves that it was not Senators Lee and Cruz who shut down
the government--it was President Obama. The President had the option to accept
all the compromises that were offered, which funded everything except ObamaCare.
The Affordable Care Act was foisted upon the American people (the majority of
whom are not in favor of it) in a very sleazy and shady process that included
rushing it through so quickly that those voting on it were unable to read the
bill and understand what they were voting on.Secondly, the REAL
issue here is not ObamaCare, but the out-of-control spending. Both the GOP and
the Democratic Party are responsible, including our dear Senator Hatch, to the
tune now of $155,000+ of national debt for every household in America!
$155,000!!! That is a runaway, downhill train with no apparent brakes, headed
for your house, Governor, and mine, and every Utahn's. When is it OK to get
concerned? $200,000/family? $500,000? Be sure to let us know!
@Evets - His beliefs nearly brought the world to a financial catastrophe. There
is a huge difference in doing what is right vs your personal beliefs. As a
Senator, he is tasked with Representing the needs of Utah's and playing
chicken with the world economy does not help any Utahn.
I am disappointed that Gov. Herbert didn't back Lee better. I am proud we
have a Senator that stands up for what he believes in.
The Tea Party has a great talking point that all Americans are worried about...
The debt.Unfortunately, the Tea Party's other talking points
have included: Obama has no birth certificate, was a Muslim, caused the economic
recession on his first day in office, is a Socialist, Wants American society to
collapse, Is a lazy president because he takes vacations, Wants to eliminate the
second amendment, is responsible for the entire debt, etc...If the
Tea party wants people to listen to its valid arguments, it should not preface
them with hogwash only dittoheads believe.
@The Rock - There was enough money to service the interest payments on the notes
but there would be very little left over to pay for basic government services.
The question would be, do you default on loan payments or do you pay them and
let the government and quite possibly society collapse into chaos?
bungalow,Lee and Cruz remind me of George Washington, Thomas
Jefferson, Patrick Henry, Paul Revere, John Adams, and a host of American
patriots who put liberty over tyranny and country over self.
Okay, for the sake of debate, Governor Herbert and Senator hatch, let's say
the the Cruz-Lee-Paul-Rubio strategy was wrong.They HAD a strategy,
and were willing to risk their reputations to try to stop Obamacare.What was the Herbert-Hatch strategy, I missed reading about it? Okay, be
honest, there was none. The "moderate" Republican strategy is the same
it has been for most of Hatch's tenure, quietly say a few mildly critical
things somewhere along the process, then quietly surrender to the unyielding
demands of the Democrats on every issue.I endorse Mike Lee and look
forward to campaigning for him. I have not made up my mind on Herbert, and
opposed Hatch last time!
God bless Sen. Lee and Cruz and anyone else of that mind set. May the election
of 2014 bring a new class of 'em.
Things just go from one extreme to another.
The governor refuses to acknowledge that Senators Lee and others were making a
point. That is, that government is out of control and that the latest fiasco is
the Affordable Care Act, most infamously, their web site. It certainly is not
the only point but just one of the latest. Of course the Governor refuses to say
so because it is his party on the hot seat and they are notoriously sensitive to
heat. What all Americans should understand that this latest cabal of radical
leftists who control of the country is not the only bad guys responsible for
this over bloated unaccountable Federal bureaucracy.
Senator Ted Cruise came home to Texas to a huge crowd who enthusiastically
congratulated him. Texans couldn't be more proud of him. He stood up
against all odds for what he believed in. I heard a radio host here comparing
that to the less than rousing crowd in Utah waiting for Senator Lee. They are
stumped as to what Utah believes in. I have to ask the same question
myself: Why does Utah think it was wrong for Senator Lee to stand out as
different by standing up for what he believes - even to the extent that the
Government was shut down? He didn't do it to shut down the Government. He
did it to save the American people from Obamacare and the disgusting side
problems that will come with it. We need more people in Government like that!
The temporary shut down was a bad thing, but not as bad as when we see all of
the problems that will come from Obamacare. I am thankful To Senator Lee and
Senator Cruz for what they did.
RE: The RockAmen!!!
I think that Gov. Herbert is right, there is enough blame to go all the way
around; For instance, Pres. Obama's absolute refusal to
negotiate/compromise on anything. This was also the stand of Sen. Harry Reid of
Nevada. This was even after the Republicans scaled back there demands multiple
times! I was just pleased to see the state of Utah step up to the bat and
reopen the parks. That saved the towns around the parks from total failure, and
showed that the state would and could step in when the Feds fell on their
"The impasse shut down the federal government for more than two weeks and
was settled midmonth, on the eve of what would have been the first default on
repaying the nation's debt."I wish the DN would get their
facts straight. The government brings in more than 10 times as much money as
required to fund the debt service in any given month. The only reason there
would have been a default is if the President ignored the constitution (yet
again) and chose not to pay our debts.The constitution requires that
this be paid first.