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Comments about ‘At BYU, George Will decries 'decadent democracy,' worries with LDS about religious liberty’

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Published: Tuesday, Oct. 22 2013 6:20 p.m. MDT

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esodije
ALBUQUERQUE, NM

At least Will is optimistic about the future of the US, which is more than I can say for myself. I think it's insane to pretend that a country living way beyond its means by incurring astronomical amounts of debt is any different from an individual or family doing the same thing; there will be a day of reckoning, and it isn't going to be pretty. Worse, we've gotten to the point where the Federal Reserve "buys" ~70% of new US Treasury debt instruments. In what material way is the Fed distinguishable from the government that spends all that money?

Edd_Doerr
Silver Spring, MD

George Will's pompous pontifications are mostly hot air. He blorts about shrinking government, yet he wants to expand government to tax all Americans to support sectarian and other private schools, something that Utah voters overwhelmingly rejected in 1998 ans 2007. And Santorum wants to expand government so that it can deny women religious liberty and freedom of conscience on reproductive matters. Both Will and Santorum are dedicated enemies of the religious freedom and church-state separation enshrined in the Utah constitution. -- Edd Doerr, President, Americans for Religious Liberty

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

Redshirt,

Look at the statistics. Stories from a few CEOs make me cry. Corporations have never had it so good, nor have their executives.

At the outset, capitalism was indeed intended to break the monopoly of the aristocratic class and spread wealth around a bit. But today's capitalism is dysfunctional in this regard. By giving in to corporate demands (particularly the demand to declare corporations "persons," which happened finally in the late 1800s), we have merely created a new aristocratic class that is becoming increasingly removed from the commoner with each passing year. Again, look at the statistics, not what the conservative talk-radio voices say. To see where our system of corporate capitalism is taking us, all we have to do is look at the numbers and follow their trajectory. Even the CEOs wouldn't like the picture the numbers present, because their policies are slowly killing off their customers. Growing inequality is hard to justify, no matter which side of the great political divide you occupy.

Lew Scannon
Provo, UT

Eliyahu,

Great comment. In one of Brigham's "Orders of Enoch," Orderville, the people owned no private property, lived in dormatories, and ate their meals together in a common cafeteria.

With the railway on the way, Brigham knew capitalism was on his doorstep, so in 1868 he launched an anticapitalist editorial campaign in the Deseret News and established ZCMI, Zion's Cooperative Mercantile Institution, his attempt to undercut the profits of the merchants in Zion and prevent the economic inequality that he preached against constantly.

There You Go Again
Saint George, UT

George has become a carny barker for all things republican...

His gig as a fox news entertainer proves that fact.

Sad.

On a brighter note...

He did write an informative book about baseball: Men at Work...

He also wrote an interesting read titled Restoration (published in 1992) regarding Congress and use of term limits as a possible solution for what ailed the country then and continues to plague us today.

JD Jones
Salt Lake City, UT

@Shimlau, you wrote, " I don't see anywhere where birth control is prohibited. Just that those who concientiously object, don't want to have to pay for it. There are many forms of birth control that are available over the counter at a nominal fee. they work, and are quite easily affordable. Is this not an option, for someone to pay for their own birth control? What a novel idea!"

So where do we draw the line? Should a religion have the right to deny health insurance for any reason? What if they decide that woman simply don't deserve any health care based on the religious belief that all woman shall not have insurance? It's irrational to refuse insurance coverage for birth control based on a belief system your employees don't share.

Tom in CA
Vallejo, CA

@Bob K:

"How is it Christian to not help the poor?" Nice try, but failed.

First - How do you define "Poor"?? There are plenty of "poor" people being enriched by government handouts. Fraud is rampant when it comes to government handouts/entitlements.

Second - How do you define "help"?? You don't "help" anyone by creating generational dependence of government assistance where there is no (NONE, NADA) accountability. What you DO create is a dependent nanny state under our current system.

Tom in CA
Vallejo, CA

@Ultra Bob -

"...the actual truth is that the root cause of 99% of the problems in society is the economic oppression created by businessmen ...."

Really?? How many poor "businessmen" have ever employed you?

esodije
ALBUQUERQUE, NM

At least Will is optimistic about the future of the US, which is more than I can say for myself. I think it's insane to pretend that a country living way beyond its means by incurring astronomical amounts of debt is any different from an individual or family doing the same thing; there will be a day of reckoning, and it isn't going to be pretty. Worse, we've gotten to the point where the Federal Reserve "buys" ~70% of new US Treasury debt instruments. In what material way is the Fed distinguishable from the government that spends all that money?

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

I find all this chatter a bit amusing. For example, people act like this is all new.. never seen before. And yet, in 2006, the last debt owed for wwII was finally paid off - some 61 years after incurred. The fledgling states borrowed money from France and the Dutch bankers to fund the revolutionary war.... and took decades to pay it off. Utah was acquired from Mexico to retire debt that Mexico had to the United States.

So lets stop with the revisionist history here. In one of the biggest redistribution of wealth, the Home Stead Act, people were given government lands in the promise they would turn the land productive. Millions of acres, which the US government had to borrow money to buy, were given away...

So this cherry picking of historical facts to make profound, but untrue statements, just shows how absolutely ignorant some of these constitutionalist are of their own countries history.

SlopJ30
St Louis, MO

I am willing to bet good money that no-one here has ever directly experienced the United States government suppressing their religious freedom. This is all Chicken Little stuff.

Honestly, I'd be interested to hear a reply . . has anyone here wanted to engage in some religious practice on their own time and their own dime and been thwarted by the horrible, horrible liberals who are apparently out to get you?

cpafred
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@Tekakaromatagi

"If you define 'liberal' as fascists who want to get into people's lives, who think that they can create a utopia by making everyone toe their party line..."

I hope you're kidding. How about Van Jones or somebody like him? As a liberal member of the Church, I am tired of my tithing dollars supporting a pathetic string of right wing personalities speaking at BYU.

As for your comment regarding the polarity of American politics 'flipping', thanks for the good laugh. Perhaps you have been away too long, but we have these thing called "polls" in America, and the right-wingers are not doing too well in them. We also have this thing called a president and he is a Democrat (recently reelected) and a thing called the senate (containing a majority of Democrats). I suspect something has "flipped", but it's not the polarity of American politics.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

"....the consensus is we should have a large, generous, omnipresent, omniprovident welfare state and not pay for it. Everyone's agreed on this...."
______________________________

I know of no one who advocates that even though the far right insists that’s what we’re doing. But facts are no deterrent to dishonesty when the business at hand is perpetuating myths about the left for the right wing to feed on. That’s unworthy of George Will.

The wit and clarity that once gave Will’s perspectives a rebellious edge has withered with age. His columns are now routine caustic polemics that make you want to cry remembering when he was a font of refinement worthy of his erstwhile mentor William F. Buckley who seemed to grow old gracefully.

Bob K
porland, OR

Shimlau
SAINT GEORGE, UT
@ JD Jones If you are a nurse working for one of their hospitals, for example, (there are so many examples) they want to deny insurance coverage for nurse to get birth control. This is freedom? It's clearly not. I don't see anywhere where birth control is prohibited. Just that those who concientiously object, don't want to have to pay for it. There are many forms of birth control that are available over the counter at a nominal fee. they work, and are quite easily affordable. Is this not an option, for someone to pay for their own birth control? What a novel idea!

Sorry, but this is not very American or very Christian!

1-- Suppose Maria works in the kitchen of a hospital for minimum wage, has 3 kids. Will she buy shoes for the kids or birth control pills? Should she have to chose?
2-- Suppose Maria's sister is in another town where the hospital is not catholic and gets the free contraception: is this equality?
3-- Suppose you actually priced over-the-counter birth control instead of imagining how cheap it is? Guess what, condoms are expensive, and men do not like them.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Razzle2

Germany in no way paid for all the damage of WWII. The US paid to for humanitarian aid in Germany after the war, and helped rebuild.

The other liberal dream posts are equally ridiculous, but too numerous to address them all. But they wouldn't read them anyway, with their heads in the sand.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

Why is it that conservative churches and commentators who don't like certain policies always demonize and demagogue by suggesting that certain unfavored policies and individuals are all about destroying freedom of religion? It is simply balderdash,(Some of you will probably have to look up that old word)contrived to excite a religious right wing base to politically oppose the policies in question. Simply, put you are being used. There is no threat to religious freedom, families, marriage, etc. If you want to find a real threat to freedom, you might want to look at the impact of political money on our used-to-be democracy. This kind of an argument is couched in fear, and is made to distract you from what is really going on.

slcjimmy
SLC, UT

@ Badger Badger and to the many others ..."Liberal Colleges" or if you prefer Universities such as Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Brown, Stanford, Duke, Wake Forest, etc. (Purely assumption on my part that I assume these would qualify in your mind as "liberal") or as the rest of the country outside of Utah and Texas would cassify as freethinking have actually had Mr Will speak numerous times. The difference is however unlike the controlled learning environment at "colleges" such as byu, Liberty, Bob Jones, Baylor, smu, etc, students and faculty realize that speeches given are purely political opinion. Noticed the word "opinion" used not "fact" Highly recommend you grasp this concept before posting anymore unintelligent nonsense, especially in a such a public forum. Consider this a recommendation from myself and the many others that attended "liberal" Universities.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Eliyahu" you are wrong about Brigham Young being a socialist.

This is what Brigham Young had to say about socialism " We heard Brother Taylor’s exposition of what is called Socialism this morning. What can they do? Live on each other and beg. It is a poor, unwise and very imbecile people who cannot take care of themselves." Source: President Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Volume 14, p. 21. 1870.

To "Kent C. DeForrest" the disfunction that you see is what happens when politicians push for socialism or fascism and try to use government to controll businesses. For example, the two most hated industries are banking and health insurance. The two most regulated industries are banking and health insurance. Is it any coincidence that the industries that frustrate people the most are also the same ones being micromanaged by the government? In health insurance, the cost of insurance would not be so high, if it wasn't for government adding to the cost of insurance through state and federal mandates.

If that isn't enough, look back at history to when capitalism was functioning better and also look at the amount of regulation they had. Less regulation=better capitalism.

BigAlvin
COLORADO SPRINGS, CO

That makes at least two of us who feels old, because as a student I saw/listened to George Will when he visited BYU the first time. It was definitely not the 80's, best guess is 1979, and definitely no earlier than '78. One thing that hasn't changed: I was envious of his intellect and insight then and still am.

slcjimmy
SLC, UT

@ UtahBlueDevil...Well stated post! Isn't it amazing what a "liberal" education can provide?

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