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Comments about ‘In our opinion: Shutdown solution just kicks the can — again’

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Published: Thursday, Oct. 17 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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There You Go Again
Saint George, UT

"...But beyond the effects of the shutdown, the report also gives strong indications that businesses are reluctant to hire, and are in fact limiting the hours of their workers, in response to the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare. The program has built-in incentives for businesses to hire part-time, rather than full-time, workers. It also contains incentives for some businesses to drop the health coverage of their employees and let them use Obamacare’s health exchanges, instead....".

One way to make more profit is to reduce payroll.

Another way to make more profit is to stop providing/sharing the cost of health insurance for employees.

If you can achieve both profit goals above, while blaming the effects, of reaching those goals, on the POTUS...and get away with it...why not?

WestGranger
West Valley City, Utah

Train wreck still coming, our grandchildren will still be paying off our massive debts down the debt. Will we be known as
"The Most Selfish Generation" 50 years from now?

pschles
USA, ID

Good editorial. I'm not so proud to be a Democrat, just now, to be honest. I'm not at all a Ted Cruz, and I'm not a Tea Partier, but I wanted the country to default, There are lot of things that need to change, but unfortunately it's not going to happen with this group of plutocratic players and their handlers. I wish the Arab Spring would wash shore in the US. Everyone is so passive, happy with their lot, not so willing to get out in the street with a sign to demonstrate their dismay and disillusionment. All of what we just experienced is going to replay and replay. We need someone to step up to the plate and agree to only be President for four years, and to tell everyone that's because they're going to do everything in the first two years that our Presidents only get around thinking its safe to do in year six. Where to find real leaders?

annes
albuquerque, NM

The shutdown conspirators, Cruz, Lee, the 80 legislators who signed the shutdown letter should be tried for sedition. GOP is anti democracy: HR-368.

Using their elected offices, these seditious conspirators tried to force the nation into abandoning Obamacare. When that didn't work out for them, they threatened to throw the nation into default.

This tactic is just a backdoor way to abandon the Social Security program. Open your eyes! Payments into the SS trust fund are borrowed by the government (us), secured with treasury bonds. That is one of the biggest debts our government has, we owe the money to ourselves. Nothing wrong with that, it makes us interest. The GOP wants to default on that debt. Why? Answer: same reason they want to defund Obamacare. $$$. They want to privatize and profit, while we pay up.

Enough hypocritical complaints from the people who ran up the debt in the first place. They started two unfunded wars, gave tax breaks to their wealthy selves/cronies during wartime. They deregulated banks, crashed the economy, destroyed the tax base. Stimulus was needed to overcome effects of terrible GOP policies.

Shutdown cost $24B. $24,000,000,000.00

Smooth move, deficit hawks.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

And these "children" will wait until the very last minute again to do their job.

Debt ceiling is no time to talk about what got spent previously. We need congress to work together on a compromise that brings down our deficit.

If Mitt Romney studied this situation from a purely business standpoint (ie void of politics) his conclusions would certainly involve a comprehensive approach.

And I would bet that his approach would include

Spending cuts - Entitlement and defense primarily
Revenue increases - Taxes

In a divided congress, it MUST include both.
Doing both is the responsible way to go.

We better accept that or nothing will happen.

Kim
Cedar Park, Texas

The agreement was never intended to be a resolution, just a way to get past this poorly conceived, self inflicted crisis originated by the tea party wing of the Republican party. As the President and Senate leaders rightly said, bargaining with a gun to your head is not good faith bargaining. Hopefully, the failure of this ill conceived tactic will lead to cooler heads prevailing in a conference committee that can really address these issues. It is interesting to see that the Senate seems to be the only hope we have for bipartisanship. It has the least amount of tea party representation.

Ranch
Here, UT

I'll agree with the argument that we've just kicked the can down the road and we're going to have all the nonsense again in just a few months time.

You haven't even given the ACA a chance yet though. How do you know it's a disaster? That's like your other article's comparison of a kid saying "I don't like meatloaf" and hasn't even tried it yet.

TMR
Los Angeles, CA

D-News, FYI - the solution was "historic" because it averted what would have been a disaster imposed upon the country by a political minority. Yes, you make some fine points, especially on the archaic tax code, but give credit to Reid for keeping the US solvent.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

Republicans should commit to improve Omamacare, and quit shutting down the government in an attempt to overturn it.

In this great country, the system allows a person to sell their house short so a man can afford to run for and then serve in congress, stiffing the bank that lent the money what they are owed. If the system allows this so one man can pursue his dream at the expense of other people, why does that same man fight against a system which would allow all people, including the poor among us to get decent health care?

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Yes, kicking the can down the road. And just what were the lessons learned by the extremists?

Here's a hint:

"“I’ll vote against it,” Republican Representative Fleming stated.. “But that will get us into Round 2. See, we’re going to start this all over again.”

m.g. scott
clearfield, UT

You got it right, but right now the divide between the two factions that the American people have sent to Washington, are so far apart on priorities, that any major agreement is like fitting the square peg in the round hole. Either one side or the other will have to fundamenatly cave in on their principles. Or, the American people will have to choose in the next 2 elections one side or the other to send to Washington. I don't see either of those options happening. And I don't see a third possible option either. Anyone else?

ECR
Burke, VA

This essay is the starting point for a great conversation. There is much to like and just as much to dislike about what is said.

Perhaps Senator Reid's "historic" comment was a reference to the bipartisan nature of the bill that was passed. For two weeks the Speaker of the House insisted that a clean CR would not pass in the House but last night's vote, on a bill very similar to the one the Senate proposed before October 1, passed with bipartisan support. That aspect is indeed historic in this volitile political climate.

Your comments about employers, most of them small business owners, finding ways to drop coverage for their employees is no doubt true, just as businesses, even large ones, dropped the prescription drug option of their insurance plans for retirees on pensions once the Medicare Prescription Drug plan was passed in 2003. But maybe those employers are realizing what many governments and business leaders elsewhere in the world have discovered, like Canada's David Beatty who recently wondered "why big U.S. companies want to be in the business of providing health care anyway" - "that’s a government function," he said simply.

ECR
Burke, VA

The glitches found in the opening days of the ACA rollout are common in the rollout of any automated system. Imagoine anyone rolling a system with 300 million potential users. It is ironic, as you point our that the noise create4d by those who were irresponsiblky trying to defund the ACA provided cover for the problems and actually caused the opinions of the ACA to rise - just another example of the poor judgement shown by those who led this mess.

While talking about about the need to address deficit spending and getting our arms around "entitlements", you didn't mention that despite the toxic political climate that exists in Washington today, the deficit has actaully been cut in half from the deficit that was inherited from the last Adminstration. I thinks its worth mentioning, if for no other reason that to add some positve energy to the effort.

I hope your essay is in no way justifying that actions of a small minority who put our country in serious financial jeopardy and cost our economy over $24 billion in doing so.

ECR
Burke, VA

"Will we be known as "The Most Selfish Generation" 50 years from now?"

No doubt, unless some things change. The bottom line is that we have to live within our means which, of course means we have to serious examine every aspect of our spending and spend only what needs to be spent. But we also need to look at our income. Maybe a good starting point would be the tax rates that existed during one of the most robust economic periods of our history - the Clinton years. Until we take a look as what it will honestly take to stop runaway spending and start paying off what we owe, we will, indeed, deserve the totle of most selflish.

I was amazed during this two week stanbdoff to hear supposedly rational people stating they didn't to raise the debt ceiling, or as "pscles" said above "I wanted the country to default". How will that get us on the right track? Or is that coming from someone who has taken the bankruptsy option in their life. Let's pay our bills and stop being selfish.

donahoe
NSL, UT

Dear neighbors,
The 144 who voted for default last night are not the fiscal conservatives you believed. They would allow the country to default, somehow claiming that a bill they see as financially risky (ACA) could be improved by much greater financial irresponsibility (default). Their names are online at the US House Clerk's website under roll call 550. If you are a republican, you should replace these representatives. If you are American, you should be certain that they are not reelected.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

The DN has once again showed not just it's partisan slant but it's partisan filter by distorting the realities of business and health insurance, then continuing it's ever present fetish with debt. Never once does the editorial board take a broad and comprehensive view of the economy and it's problems. If it did it would have to admit that the debt is a symptom, albeit a dangerous one, not a cause.

Some independent but economically very conservative think tanks are starting to come around to this idea, but then they are thinkers not ideologues.

Debt will diminish with growth, but growth can't happen until we have a work force educated for the 21st century, and Businesses willing to invest in the future not just the next quarter(taxes are a part of this).

Once the workforce is actually technology competent and competing in 21st century industry, some of the wealth distribution issues will be taken care of. Part of the problem now is nobody is going to pay for dumb.

The realities of old age entitlements will need to be addressed but don't look as daunting in a 21st century growing economy.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:JoeBlow
Yes

CA is the poster child for how a combination of how modest tax increases and spending cuts can make a big difference.
From Reuters May 2013:

"S&P had raised its credit rating on California's general obligation debt by one notch to A with a stable outlook from A-minus with a positive outlook after Brown's initial budget plan in January, which predicted an $850 million surplus that would mark a break with California's long history of budget deficits.

We need to "fix" the sequester so it doesn't cut investments for future growth such as research and education (Headstart).

We need to address Defense spending---which is so out of control the GAO can't determine where and how much money has been spent. Perhaps the winding down of 2 wars will help, but there needs to be a serious top to bottom accounting and spending curbs/cuts.

We should also eliminate the cap on Social Security taxes as we did with Medicare.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

DMN, the Democrats would have preferred a longer deal. But the Republicans would not have permitted that. Don't forget that most Tea Partier voted against restarting the government at all and would have allowed a default.

Gildas
LOGAN, UT

I agree that this just "kicks the can" further down the road, but am diametrically opposed to the arrogant attitude of this editorial that criticizes the actions of those who sought to do something more than just "kicking the can further down the road". Their determined opposition would have shown willingness to fight and not procrastinate the fight, which the editors seem to understand still remains to be fought.

Kudos to the Republican delegation to the House who unitedly opposed "kicking the can down the road"; kudos to Rob Bishop, Jason Chaffetz and Chris Stewart. Kudos to Mike Lee whose voice was prominent and who vote was consistent in opposing any further "kicking the can down the road".

It is heartening to see a few of our LDS elders doing something to save the Constitution which is indeed "hanging by a thread".

red state pride
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I basically agree with the editorial but one thing should be pointed out. Funding decisions should be made by the Representatives of the people in the House in conjunction with the President's prioities and approval of the Senate. These CR's are an abrogation of the House's responsibilities. And it isn't their fault- Harry Reid won't even give House passed bills the time of day. There is no reason to even have a House of Rep. if the President just gets all the funding he wants for any and everything he wants- that's called a dictatorship.
Another thing that bothers me is this focus on polls and who "won" or "lost". What was best for the Country? Obviously the so-called shutdown was bad for our economy even though the Govt barely shutdown. But what about Obamacare? Is that good for our future? It may not matter since apparently no one is even signing up. Maybe if we all ignore it it will just go away.

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