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Bill would give $400M to schools but at expense of big families

Published: Wednesday, Oct. 16 2013 3:08 p.m. MDT

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OHBU
Columbus, OH

Liberal Ted: "How many times have we increased money into the school system only to still have the same problem? Money is not the answer."

Given the fact that Utah is dead-last in per-pupil spending, I would say that we haven't increased the money into the school system nearly enough. You act as if the schools are already getting an exorbitant amount of money. "Money is not the answer" is a cop-out to not feel guilty about the shoe-string budgets in the schools.

Samson01
S. Jordan, UT

This is just a rehash of the same thing that Pat Jones has been trying to champion for the last twenty years. This is one of the issues that helped West Jordan voters decide that Steve Mascaro had overstayed his welcome as their representative.

We have a social contract. We as a society have agreed to educate our children and collectively bear the cost for that education in return for the lifelong benefits of having an educated populace. Many posters here are correct instating the various societal benefits that all enjoy from this investment. Is there a better way? (think free-market)

I would remind people that we have the best run state in the US. We have issues, everyone does. But the proposed solutions often times would compromise efforts made in other areas that, overall, produces the best run state in the US.

Would I like to see more resources go to Education? Sure. I would also like to see more money go to our infrastructure, our natural resource management, and on hundreds of other things. The pie is only so big and balancing what comes out of that pie is something our state has done very well.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "OHBU" look at the areas that spend more money than Utah. We may be dead last in spending, but acedemically we do better than places like Washington DC that spend 2 to 3 times as much as we do.

What you should be asking is why is it that some states spend more per child than what it costs for PRIVATE school, yet have worse outcomes?

The simple fact is that there is a point where throwing more money at education is not the solution. There is a certain cultural factor that money cannot solve.

toosmartforyou
Farmington, UT

More money is not the answer. Look at Washington DC if you think it is.

Utah spends 100% of personal state income taxes for education, the HIGHEST in the country.

Students grow up and pay taxes back into the system; why make it harder on them when in school?

OHBU
Columbus, OH

RedShirt:

You can certainly argue that some places have simply thrown too much money at the problem, but that in no way excuses Utah for not financially supporting it enough. Giving you kids everything they want is unhealthy, but not properly providing for them is also detrimental. Of course there are cultural factors, and DC has to overcome tremendous obstacles in their public schools because of the poverty and fact that the parent(s) are often working much of the time leaving their kids unsupervised. The relative cost to private school is inconsequential because private schools can accept only good students, and kick kids out who do poorly--regardless of economic resources. Public school must take everyone.

For a state that preaches family values on a daily basis, there sure seems to be little concern for educating children. Teacher (aka, those who are dealing with children for much of each day) are paid paltry salaries, meaning that many of the best leave to pursue other interests. Those that are there do a lot with a little, and often those salaries are burdened by them buying supplies that should be provided.

toosmartforyou
Farmington, UT

OHBU

I'm all for increasing teacher salaries by 25%. I'm also for increasing teacher work loads to 12 months a year, just like everyone else. Do you know of any job description that pays 100% for 75% work? That's what teachers want. My family health insurance was almost $20,000 a year. I know a school district where it is $100 a month for family coverage. So the whole story isn't "per-pupil-funding."

Parents are the answer. People in other areas of the country, culturally, haven't figured that out. What a sad day for the children. But more money for schools at the expense of the families that are doing the right things (like being involved in the children's education) is not the answer.

Utah has good results for the dollars spent. Lets keep it that way. If you want better results, get the parents to fulfill their responsibility (both mom and dad). Utah students are not deprived of getting an education.

Fred44
Salt Lake City, Utah

toosmartforyou,

As a teacher I am more than happy to work year round for pay that is in line with professionals who work "year round". Problem is it will cost you a bit more than 25%, because you see unlike other professions, I don't get paid holidays, and I don't get paid vacation. You match my salary and other benefits to other professions with comparable education, I will be more than happy to work year around and I will smile all the way to the bank.

NeilT
Clearfield, UT

What is with criticizing UTA. UTA is funded by sales tax revenue from municipalities that have trax, frontrunner, or bus service. Not a dime from income tax. Not a dime from communities outside the Wasatch front. UTA provides bus service for West High students, and numerous other schools in SL County. I am UTA driver. More people ride the bus than critics will admit. Critics have no idea how much public transit benefits the community. Most UTA customers are minors, disabled, students, low income, or commuters who work downtown SLC or the U of U. I totally support Pat Jones proposal. Exceptions could be made for special needs or adopted children. Cap the deductions at two. Signed single with no tax exemptions.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "OHBU" lets look at spending for public schools and compare them to private schools.

I can send my child to Challenger School (for profit school) for about $8000/yr.

The state of Utah spends over $8000/yr per student (spending per child that we always hear plus the capital costs of $1700).

Why is it that Challenger Schools can maintain smaler class sizes and have better educational results than public schools, when they cost nearly the same?

toosmartforyou
Farmington, UT

Fred 44

What do you call 3 months off every summer? Why would you need paid holidays if you are making wages that are designed to be a year's worth of salary? What about breaks between sessions, like Christmas break or Spring Break or UEA (that true professional teachers attend while most do something else)? I usually got Christmas day and a few hours off for Christmas eve. I had to be back to work on Dec 26th. Thanksgiving was Thursday only, not both Thursday and Friday. Those who work outside endure winter conditions while you go into a warm building. You have sick leave. And you have a sweetheart deal on health insurance....a real sweetheart deal. Plus you are king in the classroom. That all sounds a bit cushy to me.

I know, teaching is "stressful," kids are undisciplined, parents don't care, etc. Guess what? Most jobs have these same elements in them.

Fred44
Salt Lake City, Utah

toosmartforyou,

I guess if its that cushy maybe you should give it a try. If I have all these sweetheart deals why isn't everyone becoming a teacher. The state has lowered the standard for teachers significantly and until the recession we have had a tough time filling classrooms.

I know most people don't like to compare teaching to other jobs that require a college degree, but when we look at benefits, for professional jobs, paid holidays, paid vacation, and benefit packages are part of the package, and should be for teachers too.

OHBU
Columbus, OH

RedShirt,

I already answered that question, but I'll do so again. Challenger school only admits who they want to admit. You must apply to go to school there, and if accepted, maintain good grades. They make you re-apply every year to make sure you are doing well.

How are they not going to get good results from their graduates, if their graduates are required to produce good results to stay in the school?! Meanwhile, public schools must take all--children with disabilities, children with no interest in education, and children whose parents offer little to no support. They take the students who can't keep up the standards at Challenger. Because of the very different student body, they also don't have to pay truancy officers, mental health counselors, and disability specialists.

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