1 - 2 in Conference Play, all at home, qualify for a B+? That's an example
of grade inflation is there ever was such a thing.
"Two losses, one in overtime and the other by a touchdown, keep the Utes
from getting an A."Seriously, Mike? In your examination of the
AP Poll, did you happen to notice the number of votes received by the two teams
the Utes lost to? Didn't think so.
Utah's home loss in OT to an Oregon State team which lost to an FCS level
Eastern Washington is what smack them the hardest. Similarly the BYU loss back
at Virginia does the most damage to the Cougars. Utah State on the other hand
simply had too many unrealistic expectations goven the coaching change in Logan,
and the Aggies might be back to square one with the revolving door. Dave
Arslanian only lasted 2 years after John L. Smith left for greener pastures
So what does this say about BYU's football program? Try & follow this
logic ! if the Cougars lost to the Utes, who lost to Oregon State, who lost to
Eastern Washington, who plays in the FCS? I say it means that BYU couldn't
beat Weber State or Southern Utah this season, right? LOL Cougars get a D-
Utah may deserve a B+, but most of its classes are AP classes.
Utah has the better coach. Stanford the better players. Utah wins.
Head to head: Utah Better win: UtahWorse loss: byUHarder
schedule: UtahHigher ranking: UtahCan't wait to hear the
spin about how byU is still better. I'll say this in advance:LOL!Utah is the one and ONLY premier program in the state of
UtahAnd YES, having higher star recruiting classes every year the
last 4 years is a big reason we are the best program in the state.Higher star teams = better talentDeal with it.
Premier program? Only about ten of those in the nation not quite there yet. Good program, respected program, improving program. Premier not even
close, that belongs to Alabama, LSU, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma teams with national
Wow. I guess I need to re-read this article, because I didn't see ANY
mention of BYU by Sorensen -- yet IMMEDIATELY the ute fans feel compelled to
pull them into the conversation. Yet I have been told for MONTHS that the utes
have moved on from BYU. After the big win on Saturday over Stanford and Oregon
on the horizon, amazing that the obsession is still with BYU. By the way, how
did the Buffs do on Saturday? Gotta keep and eye on that big "rivalry"
game coming up in November, right?
Dear Mr Hawk, Please re-read the ENTIRE article before commenting and making
*some BYU fans* appear unable to read online articles. (pssst, there are
Hawk:When the headline mentions "state's college football
TEAMS" and http links are imbeded for additional segments of a story, most
of us take those as "clues" that all teams are covered in the story,
SUU, Weber--even BYU. Utah was mentioned first because the writer gave it the
best grade.Janca's right: some y "fans" appear unable
to read online stories properly before getting indignant.
Utah's win against Stanford, BYU, and Utah State certainly qualify them for
the highest grade in Utah. Their coaching has been excellent this season. That being said, I can't be more happy and excited for the Cougars
this year and the potential this season. It's nice to root for a team that
puts a good product on the field, has a competitive schedule, and is is on
channel(s) the average joe can watch (anywhere in the world). Oh
and last but not least, its nice to root for a program that doesn't have to
put winning as its only measure of success.
@SLC BYU FanYour logic is flawed, BYU's worst loss is Utah:
'Utah's home loss in OT to an Oregon State team which lost to an FCS
level Eastern Washington is what smack them the hardest.' Which beat BYU in
Hawk, you are doing a lot of wishful thinking. Contrary to what you want to
believe, byu is NOT important to Utah fans. Further, can you please explain
your preoccupation with the relationship between Utah and Colorado? Tell you what, sport, how about you read the rest of the article and then come
back to this board and acknowledge your error. SoUtBoy25Good
to hear that you are excited for the Cougars and that you sincerely believe they
have put a good product on the field. How do you know it's a good product
unless you measure the wins? As for competitive schedule...you do realize
I'm sure that none of the teams byu plays this year are ranked.Also, I don't understand what you people think is so special about
byu's tv arrangement. The only byu game I've seen (or even stumbled
across) this year was the Utah game. I've seen every one of Utah's
games as well as Utah State's games this year and I live no where near the
State of Utah. Let me repeat that...I've seen every one of Utah
State's games this year.
Latest RankingsBYU > Utah > USUAP/Coaches/Sagarin#9/#10/#6 UCLA(5-0)#13/#13/#14
Stanford(5-1)#18/#18/#18 Oklahoma(5-1)ur/ur/#24 BYU(4-2)ur/ur/#25 Utah(4-2)ur/ur/#29 Texas(4-2)ur/ur/#37 Oregon St(5-1)ur/ur/#40 Georgia Tech(3-3)ur/ur/#41 Utah St(3-4)Utah is
29th in AP and 34th in Coaches in "Others Receiving Votes"Next OpponentsBYU: at ur/ur/#56 Houston(5-0)Utah: at ur/ur/#36
Arizona(3-2)USU: at ur/ur/#140 New Mexico(2-4)-------Next big hurdle for Utah: win a road game against a PAC team with a winning
record, something the Utes haven't done since 1996, interestingly, at
Get it right, Sorensen: Utes deserve an A-, Cougars deserve a B-, Chuckie-less
Aggies deserve a C+, and Weber State deserves a D-.Predicting the
Utes lose to both Arizona schools plus USC is a slap in the face.Looks like Sorensen bleeds smurf blue.Go Utes!
@myperspectiveI agree that Utah games can not be seen all that often on
TV. BYU does matter to Utah fans. Utah fans stormed the field last year,
or did you not see that. You are wrong Wisconsin is ranked. Texas was ranked and
probably will be again. Notre Dame will probably be ranked again.As for
the TV thing. It really depends on what cable or satellite provider you have to
be able to watch the games. If you live a long way from Utah why does it
say SLC under your post?And just so everyone knows I live in Wyoming and
have not seen a Utah game (besides BYU) but have watched all of the BYU games
and a couple of Utah State's. It depends on where you live and your cable
package.I hope all teams do well and BYU and Utah have done well both
beating recognized National teams (Stanford is better this year so Utah's
victory means more).
MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City?"Also, I don't understand
what you people think is so special about BYU's tv arrangement. The only
BYU game I've seen (or even stumbled across) this year was the Utah game.
I've seen every one of Utah's games as well as Utah State's games
this year and I live no where near the State of Utah."LOL at
your delusional spin.Every one of BYU's games so far this
season has been NATIONALLY televised:at Virginia - ESPNUTexas
- ESPN2Utah - ESPN2MTSU - ESPNUat Utah St - CBS Sports
NetworkGeorgia Tech - ESPNUbtw, BYU's television
arrangement ONLY applies to BYU home games, which have all been televised on one
of the ESPN family of networks
Samurai JakeDon't kid yourself, Sorensen is a dyed-in-the-wool
Ute.Actual grades should be:BYU - B+Utah - B+USU - C+No unranked team deserves an A/A- and no losing team
deserves higher than a C+
chrisbDespite all of your spin, BYU is still ranked higher:#24 BYU(4-2) #25 SOS > #25 Utah(4-2) #9 SOSDealt with...
@B C:Don't kid yourself by thinking that the Utes and YbU
should be ranked neck and neck. The Utes should be ranked A- because of their
close losses to tough PAC-12 opponents, and signature victory over then #5
Stanford.YbU can't say the same thing. While Texas looks like
they decided to finally wake up and play worthy of their recruiting stars, the
YbU loss against lowly Virgina cancels that out.YbU needs to beat
Wisconsin or Notre Dame to earn their way back into the A ranks, let alone beat
Boise State and Houston first. Utes have proven themselves worthy, and now need
to continue their winning ways. The Utes have proven that even Oregon will need
to bring their A games!Go Utes!
Great win for the Utes, can't believe they beat Stanford. U will have a
tough time vs ASU, WSU, and USC. Should be a good game vs Arizona. No chance
vs Oregon. Two more wins for a bowl, I hope they can do it but it's going
to be tough. All easier competition came early, now a tough road ahead.BYU has had a tougher road early on this season, tougher competition
early, but will easily make their bowl game. Good, dominating win vs GaTech.
Passing game is coming on and balancing the offensive output.USU has
little chance of much w/o Keeton, what a shame!
Samurai Jake"Don't kid yourself by thinking that [BYU and
Utah] should be ranked neck and neck."Don't kid yourself;
according to Sagarin, that's EXACTLY how they are ranked!ur/ur/#24 BYU(4-2)ur/ur/#25 Utah(4-2)
Ranked higher where? I see Utah is the only Utah school receiving votes in any
of the major polls.... USA Today Coach's Poll, AP Poll, Harris Poll, ESPN
Power rankings... etc. etc. etc.Latest BCS Poll has Utah at #30 and our
pathetic little brother at #41. As far as SOS goes Phil Steele has Utah at #12
and once again our pathetic little brother is lower than us at #49 lol byu makes
me laugh because they always try to make excuses. Good luck the rest of the
season byu in making a bowl game that nobody cares about while we sneak into a
great bowl because the Pac-12 has actual decent bowl affiliations (even for the
lower pack of the qualifying teams)
Correction: Phil Steele's current SOS has Utah SOS at 18 and byu at 25 but
still Utah is better once again
BoSox4Receiving votes isn't the same as being ranked.BYU is ranked #24 in Sagarin, ahead of our little brother Utah at #25.
Re: JohnnyIts true that the Aggies aren't the same without
Chuckie, but their remainder schedule is easy. They should win the rest of
their games. I'm not saying they will, but they should. Wyoming might beat
them, but the rest of the teams on the schedule are cake walks. Aggies should
finish 3rd in MWC.
USA Today re-ranking 1 - 125#32 BYU#37 UtahUnfortunately for U, our pathetic little brothers are still having trouble
keeping up with their big brothers.
Right on, BoSox4! Right on!It's a good thing that YbU
"fans" have Sagarin to cling to. It's the only minuscule edge they
feel they have over Utah at this point.The fact of the matter is,
Utah leads the way in every other major poll, as was stated by BoSox4. And Utah
has beaten a bigger opponent than YbU this year, in a game that had bigger
national implications. And Utah clearly owns the head-to-head against YbU. And
surely owns the recruiting battle. And factually owns the undefeated seasons
count, as well as the BCS bowl victories tally. And owns the active NFL player
count. And Utah definitely has the best coach in the state, as well as the best
QB in the state. Need I go on?Enjoy your Sagarin ranking. This
week. While it lasts.Go Utes!
Re: I'm trying to Be Smart"Premier program? Only about ten
of those in the nation not quite there yet. Good program, respected
program, improving program. Premier not even close, that belongs to
Alabama, LSU, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma teams with national titles."Since when did Alabama, LSU, Oregon, et al move to the state of Utah?
I'm no Chris B defender but at least get it right if you're going to
Samurai Jake"The fact of the matter is, Utah leads the way in
every other major poll..."Only in your dreams.Sagarin and USA Today are just as "major" as any of the polls in which
the Utes are actually ranked. As much as our jealous little brothers would like
to pretend otherwise, when the circumstances suit their narrative, receiving
votes is not the same as being ranked.
@Johnny Triumph:"BYU has had a tougher road early on this
season, tougher competition early"Through six games each - SOS:
Utah #9, byU #25.@Uteanymous:I see you can only use the
Sagarin rating for your argument. Why don't you try to use the portion of
the Sagarin rating that counts - the ELO_CHESS, which the BCS uses:Utah 27, byU 31I can see why you wouldn't want to use
anything that the BCS uses, since byU and the BCS aren't acquainted.Nice cherry-picking, but fail as usual.Go Utes!!
Uteanymous:I half-expected some y "fan" to trumpet
Sagarin's absurd ratings. Thanks for not disappointing.The
absurdity is found in the ranking list itself. Utah's worst
loss is to a team Sagarin's mysterious computer ranks 37th (the Utes other
loss is to a team ranked 6th) and its best win is against a team the computer
ranks 14th, while BYU's worst loss is to a team Sagarin ranks 82nd, and its
best win is against a team the computers rank 29th. Yet, astoundingly, BYU is
ranked directly ahead of a team it lost at home to!! And no, Sagarin won't
reveal the details of his secret "formula."Are Jeff Benedict
and Jeff Sagarin twin sons of different mothers--both closet BYU "fans"?
@phoenix:Nice try. Receiving zero votes makes YbU the better squad?
Ha ha! Only in YbU dreams.Go Utes!P.S. - are you a
Couger, Sun Devil, or Wildcat fan? I like the Utes' chances against both
AZ teams this year. And if you're a couger, then I'm ENJOYING the
Utes' dominance over YbU, which is fully guaranteed until the fall of 2016.
That fact alone must be hard to swallow.
@Stringer BellI did not say they were in utah. There is no (premier)
program in Utah. Go anywhere else and Utah and BYU are pretty much the same. Utah and BYU both have good football teams I am just saying in the National
perspective apples and apples.
@ Stringer BellChris B said the ONLY premier program in Utah. I was saying
that there is nor PREMIER program in the state.
After the USA Today poll did a re-ranking, Utah is now ranked above BYU in only
the AP poll.That's the first time the Utes have been ranked
above BYU in quite a while, I believe. And you gotta love the double standard by
the Ute faithful; polls matter, unless BYU is ranked higher. Polls aren't
perfect, but when one team is ranked much higher than another, it is indicative
that the higher-ranked team is better.Example: USU was ranked much
higher than BYU last year. USU and BYU were ranked much higher than Utah last
year. Conclusion: USU was the best team in the state last year, followed by BYU
with Utah coming in 3rd.
It's laughable that Utah fans like VegasUte quote Sagarin's SOS
ratings as gospel, when other Utah fans like JohnInSLC pretend that they're
completely biased in BYU's favor.Sagarin ranks BYU ahead of
Utah in two of his three ranking methods, and he states emphatically that the
method in which Utah is ranked higher is the least reliable method.What's your explanation for USA Today ranking BYU #32 and Utah #37, or
CBS Sports ranking Utah #36 and BYU #37?Are they also biased is
BYU's favor?Or could it be that the two teams are so close that
there's no clear cut difference and that Utah fans are simply blowing smoke
when they try to claim that Utah is seen nationally as the better team?
BYU should have the highest grade because we are the best team in the State and
have been for decades.
I don't understand why the topic of the best team in the state is being
debated? It was already decided in head to head matchups. It's a moot
topic.Utes 2-0.Kewgers 1-1.Aggies 0-2. Nothing more
needs to be said, unless its a laughable excuse by a loser. With
that said I wish nothing but the best for the Aggies, and nothing but losses for
the Kewgers. 4 in a row.9 of the last 12.14 of the last
@ TheCoach:Your analysis has no logic at all. Try using the USA
Today Sagarin Rankings who use nothing except pure logic. As of today, their
latest rankings still have BYU ranked one position better than Utah. According
the most widely accepted ranking organization in the country, Utah is still
chasing BYU who is objectively considered the better team. I couldn't
agree more. @ Chris B:Read the paragraph above.
It's been obvious for quite some time that you have a hard time accepting
reality and always trying to skew facts to fit into your biases. But according
the real experts, Utah is only a good team, not a great one yet. And certainly
not the only premier team in the country... as you keep trying to convince
everyone. You do keep proving a lot of smiles to readers. Keep up those
hilarious assertions. @ MyPerspective:The facts all
indicate you are completely wrong about BYU not being important to Ute fans.
They stormed the field 3 different times after squeaking out a very narrow win
last year... and wanted to tear down the goalposts. And they comment about BYU
almost as much as they do about their own team. Funny!
romeisn'tburningI don't understand why the Utes are even
playing out the season. UCLA already proved head-to-head that they're
better than Utah, and the Utes can't even make it to the PAC championship
game without being better than UCLA.
Fellow Cougar fans:Utah owns bragging rights this season! Trying to
argue against this only makes you look stupid. They won the head to head match
up for the 4th year in a row because our offense couldn't score in the red
zone. They are the better team. It sucks to have to admit it, but is actually
quite therapeutic. Just remember that not a single person who comments on these
message boards has anything to do with determining which team is better than the
other, so all the chest pounding and smack talking is nothing more than the
anonymous rantings of people with the maturity level of a 15 year old.
Wow -- finally, a lucid moment my Mildred. And I STILL maintain that the
"article" is about utah, with a few captioned photos of the
others....And MyPerspective, what do you mean by my
"preoccupation with the relationship between Utah and Colorado"? A
mention of it in passing is considered a "preoccupation"? And it's
YOUR conference that has declared them to be your new rival -- just suggesting
that ute fans pay a little more attention to the Buffs and stop obsessing over
Riverton Cougar:"After the USA Today poll did a re-ranking, Utah
is now ranked above BYU in only the AP poll."You forgot the USA
Today Coaches Poll, the VegasInsiders.com top 25 (Utah is ranked #24), and
Sagarin's ELO_CHESS ranking, the actual ranking that the BCS uses. Not to
mention that Sagarin's SOS has Utah at #9 with the #1 Sagarin ranked team
in the country still on the schedule, while he has byU at #25 with the #204
Sagarin ranked team in the country still on the schedule.It's
so entertaining how the trollers cherry pick information is a desperate attempt
to deflect the fact that they can't beat Utah. Their team can't beat
us on the field, so they cling to anything for comfort.Hang on to
the Sagarin week 8 rankings for as long as you can. Put it on a t-shirt and
sell it. It may come in handy in the long-cold month of November when the best
Provo can do is Idaho State!!Meanwhile, I look forward to yet
another foe this Saturday from the Conference of Champions!Go Utes!!
Go Cougars - the Texas variety!!
@Whatsnu:You missed my point entirely - nothing new I know. My
point is that anyone can cherry pick ANYTHING they want to try and prove a
point. For every piece of information that they can find, someone else can find
another to counter the point. So, in the end, who cares? None of it is gospel.
The only irrefutable fact, gospel per se, is that Utah owned byU yet again this
year and that drives byU "fans" nuts - so they try their best to prove
that they are better than Utah. So, cherry pick away, it proves nothing. Prove
it on the field, then you can make your point.Utah won.byU
lost.Deal with it.Move on.Go Utes!! Onward and Upward
beyond the minutia!!!
@ My Perspective:You sound like you are seriously jealous of
BYU's national TV exposure. You say you saw only the BYU games that you
"stumbled" across. Apparently, you must just plain stumble a lot...
period, since no else in the nation has any trouble finding BYU games every
weekend on TV. Only a real stumbler would have trouble doing so. Jealously is
sometimes a blinder to reality. To set your other assertion
straight... BYU has beaten a ranked (top 15) team this season... and much more
convincingly than Utah's win over their ranked team. Enough so that we
knocked our ranked team right out of the rankings. BTW: Texas 4-2 record is
equal to Utah's and they just beat the #12 team in the country. Also, they
are still leading The Big 12 conference. Where has utah's single
conference win put them in their conference standings?Funniest
comment of the day: After a single solitary conference win, Chris B says he
just "loves his PAC12 affiliation". It will be interesting to see
if that love holds strong after Utah starts playing some conference games on the
road. They have yet to play even one this season.
Meanwhile, after the glorious Utah victory over fifth raked Stanford:Nate Orchard won Athlon Sports National defensive player of the week. Prince
Phillips won PAC 12 special teams player of the week. And, Utah got an ESPN
four star commit from the great football powerhouse state of Florida.Thanks for those stories DN!!Go Utes!!
VegasUteTalk about cherry picking; it's obvious from anybody
observing the order in which the Sagarin ratings are listed, that ELO and SOS
are only secondary rankings.Sagarin's main RATING lists BYU #24
and Utah #25.The season is only at the halfway point and one 7-point
head-to-head win doesn't prove anything other than Utah was better for one
game out of 12 or 13.
@ Samurai Jake:Your reasoning is obviously fogged by those dark
crimson glasses. A loss never cancels out a win. Sometimes upsets just happen...
especially with games played in monsoon weather conditions. But if you insist on
your cancellation theory and that BYU's loss to Virginia cancels their
Texas win, then by the exact same reasoning, Utah's loss to Oregon State
cancels out their win over Stanford. And that would put Utah back in their
conference basement again with no attributable conference wins.It's really tough when a person can't have things both ways when
trying to use extreme biased statements, which not incidentally makes you lose
all credibility with the rest of your statements. The USA Today
Sagarin rankings are much less biased than either you or me. In fact, they are
not biased at all. And they still have BYU ranked better than Utah with all of
their objective quantifiable measurements. Sometimes in life reality just hurts.
VegasUte,Excuse me, let me clarify: the AP is the only major poll. I
already cited the USA Today's poll as being one that ranked BYU higher. As
for the Sagarin poll, BYU is ranked higher.And if head to head is
all that matters, then Eastern Washington is better than Oregon State. And in
2011, Colorado was better than Utah. But it's not all about head to head.
Because Eastern Washington is not better than Oregon State, nor was Colorado
better than Utah in 2011.
Phoenix, I guess it would be hard for people that have little to no
understanding in college sports to wrap their heads around why the season is
even played at all, so I'll explain it to you in layman's term.
Hopefully, you can follow so simple ideas. First of all, I'd
like to address a lie you have accepted as truth. It is not true that UCLA is
automatically going to represent the south division in the PAC12 championship
game, but that is besides the point. To answer your question, the
reason the Utes are playing out the season is to win games. Which is the point
of all team that compete. I hope this clears up your confusion, if not I'll
be waiting for another sarcastic response from a person commenting on a sports
article that doesn't understand sports. Go Utes!
@ VegasUte:You are starting to sound just like a troll. Your
cherry-picking proves nothing, either. There is one fact we can agree on. Utah
was barely the better team on September 21st... and never "owned" BYU
(or USU) with ultra slim victories this season. Factually, both BYU and USU had
better statistics in both of those games. Trick plays and penalties
unquestionably altered the outcomes of both games. But is Utah still
the better team? Most experts (as opposed to both you and me who are biased)
currently have BYU ranked as the better team. And they do it by all quantitative
measurable indisputable criteria. The USA Today's Sagarin rankings verify
it with pure statistical analysis, and with SOS already factored in... no
cherry-picking. Literally all other national rating services have BYU and
Utah ranked neck and neck... with neither owning the other. Deal
with it.Move on.P.S. With a little more continued luck this
season, Utah might even finish with their first winning record since 2011.
@ Represent Blue:You are NOT a fellow BYU fan. You are obviously a
Ute fan masquerading as a Cougar fan... and nothing more. No one is disputing
the fact that Utah was the better team on September 21st. (Who are you accusing
of doing any chest pounding since then?) Utah does own bragging rights to that
particular game... but nothing more. They certainly don't "own" BYU
(or USU) with their ultra-slim and statistically lacking victories.But is Utah still the better team? Most national college football rating
services, who factor in all possible quantitative criteria, currently have BYU
ranked ahead of Utah. Are you trying to assert that they are looking
"stupid" for using their unbiased rankings? There is nothing wrong with
acknowledging those rankings. Real BYU fans take a bit of pride in them (as
should they), and given the fact they are on a 3 game (and counting) win streak,
we are getting better with each passing week. It's honestly questionable
whether Utah would beat BYU again if they now had a rematch. You are
not fooling anyone by verbally saying you Represent Blue or any other real BYU
fans. You don't.
Riverton Cougar:The USA Today Coaches Poll is different than the USA
today's rankings. The coaches VOTE in the the coaches poll. The USA today
ranking is a ranking system devised by USA today. They are completely
different. Utah received votes in the USA Today Coaches Poll, as they did in
the AP poll. byU received no votes by either the AP writers or by the Coaches
in the USA Today Coaches Poll.Glad to have cleared that up for you.
Sorry I let facts get in the way of a good argument for you!Oh, and
BTW, Eastern Washington has not beaten Oregon State four straight years. So,
ya, head-to-head with byU does matter more than your numbers! All the numbers
you pull up mean squaddush compared to 4-0.@Solomon Levi:It is ALL cherry picking, that's my point. It proves nothing either way.
The only proof is on the field. So, argue all you want that byU is better - we
have four straight wins as proof that Utah is better. Win on the
field and respect will be given. See RepresetnBlue above!Go Utes!!
Proving it on the field!
"It's honestly questionable whether Utah would beat BYU again if they
now had a rematch."It's fun to have Tators back spouting
the party line out of Cosmotown--something jealous y "fans" are now
saying EVERY year!
"It's honestly questionable whether Utah would beat BYU again if they
now had a rematch."Based on the results of the game already
played and the Utes play in their last two games, it is honestly questionable
that anyone who thinks that BYU is the better team has watched ANY college
football this year. I get it BYU fan, you love your team and want them to be
the best, but isn't this discussion getting embarassing?
"And I STILL maintain that the "article" is about utah"Hawk:We're not surprised.
VegasUte"The only proof is on the field."So Utah
is better than Stanford?I defy any Utah fan to come up with a
reasonable explanation to explain why #13 Stanford isn't still considered
better than unranked Utah, despite Utah's head-to-head win.btw,
each season is judged independently, and in 5 of the last 8 seasons, BYU has
finished with a better record AND higher ranking than Utah.How the
two teams finish this season is still to be determined. Just as Stanford could
easily finish the season ranked in the Top 25, and Utah not, BYU could easily
finish the season with a better record and higher ranking than Utah.Despite the shrill denials coming from the hill, better record and higher
ranking trumps head-to-head results for one game.
Ok, VegasUte, answer this:How many years in a row has Utah finished
the season ranked higher than BYU? As people have pointed out earlier, final
rankings is the best indicator for best teams in the nation. A higher ranked
team is better than a lower ranked team. I realize that the polls are not
perfect, and there are often disputes over the accuracy of the polls, but people
rarely dispute whether or not a team is better than another team ranked 10 or
more spots higher.The bottom line is that although Utah has
consistently beat BYU on the field the past 4 years, they have failed to prove
to the nation that they were truly the better team. They were more consistent
than BYU during the same 60-minute time period of gameplay on a Saturday in
September, but overall throughout the whole season they were not as consistent.
Sagarin is just ONE data point. The full size (aka all rankings)
show that: Utah #23: Mean 27.5, Median 23.0, Std Dev 8.47BYU
#26: 28.3, 26.0, 10.0More importantly, if you ask Kevin Van Noy
he'll tell you that the better team is Utah.@Solomon LeviNews flash, unlike Stanford, BYU doesn't play in the same league.
BYU has been OWNED by Utah, sooner you accept that fact the easier you'll
sleep at night.
Riverton Cougar"How many years in a row has Utah finished the
season ranked higher than BYU?"NEVER, during the Bronco/Kyle
era.Year AP/Coaches/Sagarin Team Record2005 ur/ur/#55
BYU(6-6) < ur/ur/#51 Utah(7-5)2006 #16/#15/#19 BYU(11-2) >
ur/ur/#54 Utah(8-5)2007 #14/#15/#17 BYU(11-2) > ur/ur/#34 Utah(9-4)2008 #25/#21/#32 BYU(10-3) < #2/#4/#5 Utah(13-0)2009 #12/#12/#15
BYU(11-2) > #18/#18/#24 Utah(10-3)2010 ur/ur/#45 BYU(7-6) <
ur/#23/#26 Utah(10-3)2011 #26/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) > ur/ur/#39
Utah(8-5)2012 ur/ur/#26 BYU(8-4) > ur/ur/#61 Utah(5-7)2013
ur/ur/#24 BYU(4-2) > ur/ur/#25 Utah(4-2)In 2006, 2007, 2009,
2011 and 2012 BYU finished with a BETTER record and HIGHER ranking than Utah.In 2005, 2008 and 2010 Utah finished with a BETTER record and HIGHER
ranking than BYU.In 2013, unranked/#24 BYU(4-2) and unranked/#25
Utah(4-2) are virtually tied - final results still TBD.
@UteologyNews flash; it doesn't matter what league teams play
in; higher ranking is still higher ranking.Utah's narrow 1-, 3-
and 7-point wins in 3 of the last 4 is proof that U don't "own"
anything.Even more proof of lack of "ownership" is 14 of the
last 17 games having been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes
or in overtime.Winning the head-to-head battle, while losing the
overall record and ranking war, doesn't prove anything.
@Snack PACWhen playing a similar schedule the better team was:Utah: 2005, 2008, 2010BYU: 2006, 2007, 2009When playing a
vastly different schedule, the difference of plus 2 and plus 3 is ONLY
because:2011: Utah 8-5 vs BYU 10-3 (Idaho 2-10, NMS 4-9, CFU 5-7,
SJS 5-7, Hawaii 6-7)2012: Utah 5-7 vs BYU 8-5 (Weber 1-11, Idaho 1-11, NMS
1-11, Hawaii 3-9)Utah is 8-1 vs mid-major teams since joining the
PAC-12.Bronco is 15-14 vs BCS teams.
You ever date a girl who just could never admit that she was wrong? She would
argue and whine and throw out all kinds of baseless "proof" to support
her weak arguments until you couldn't stand her anymore and just quit
paying attention all together. Congratulations to the select BYU fans on this
thread - you have achieved whining girl who doesn't get a second date
status! Wear that badge with pride and tell us once again how the team that
shut your offense down in a win and just knocked off one of the best teams in
the country is somehow not as good as the team that lost to Virginia.
What is Whit's Record against BCS teams?When are people going to
realize both schools have really good teams?I think Utah won a great game
BYU beat a decent team.Just be happy with where your teams are at.My
guess is both teams have at least two more losses but I could be wrongGo
"Despite all of your spin, BYU is still ranked higher:#24
BYU(4-2) #25 SOS > #25 Utah(4-2) #9 SOSDealt with..."Utah won the head to head game so the head to head debate isn't a
good one to continue. That said, I've read many of the Ute
fans claiming Stanford is a better program than the University of Texas. That
UteologyLOL at your whiny "when playing a similar schedule"
excuse making.Sagarin already factors SOS into his ratings, so
sorry; no double dipping on SOS just because U still finished behind BYU.
Sagarin's ratings consider little things like Utah LOST to 10-loss Colorado
in 2011, and barely beat 11-loss Colorado in 2012.Year/Sagarin
Rating/Team/Record/SOS2011 #34 BYU(10-3) #90 > #39 Utah(8-5)
#492012 #26 BYU(8-5) #63 > #61 Utah(5-7) #412013 #24 BYU(4-2)
#25 > #25 Utah(4-2) #9
@Tators:"Most experts (as opposed to both you and me who are
biased) currently have BYU ranked as the better team. And they do it by all
quantitative measurable indisputable criteria. The USA Today's Sagarin
rankings verify it with pure statistical analysis, and with SOS already factored
in... no cherry-picking.""Indisputable criteria?"
Please. "Pure statistical analysis?" Give me a break.Tators, you
stretch more in your whining arguments than any other BYU poster besides
Duckhunter. Quit trying so hard, dude! Your team has been getting owned by my
Utes for the past decade. That is purely indisputable. Get over it! Go
Conference of Champion Utes!
Sparkley BriefsFinal records and rankings will determine which team
was better overall.Anyone who argues differently is simply blowing
smoke.If Utah were to miraculously run the table, win the PAC 12,
get invited to the BCS championship, and win the national championship, would
Utah fans really still say that Oregon State and UCLA were better than Utah
because the Beavers and Bruins beat the Utes head-to-head?
@SportsFanSo what? In season one in the Big 12 TCU finished 7-6.Are you also going to claim that Sagarin #26 BYU is a better team than
#32 TCU? If so, you might want to concentrate on staying within two scores of
TCU before making such a claim.TCU lost 4 games in 4 years playing
your schedule, in the Big 12 they already have lost 9 games.Both
Utah and TCU dominated BYU, they both dominated the MWC, they both have
struggled in tougher leagues. BYU is not a better team, in the Big
12 and PAC-12 they would finish behind the real power programs of the old MWC,
TCU and Utah.
Uteology"Are you also going to claim that Sagarin #26 BYU is a
better team than #32 TCU?"Who knows whether BYU could have
beaten TCU in 2012? Could U have beaten TCU in 2012?BYU only lost at
Notre Dame by 3 points in 2012 and BYU destroyed Texas in 2013.One
thing is certain, unlike Utah, BYU wouldn't have lost to Colorado in 2011.
BYU hasn't lost to a 10-loss team in almost 30 years. Kyle has lost to two
of them since 2007.btw, BYU won TWO MWC championships. Utah only won
ONE. So much for Utah "dominating" the MWC.
Talkinsports,Go back and watch the BYU-Utah game. At what point did
you think that BYU was the better team? That was the one game all year when
both teams were on the field together and one team thoroughly outplayed the
other. The scoreboard tells me that Utah is better and the eyeball test is just
as conclusive. Utah was neck and neck with OSU, UCLA, and Stanford for 4
quarters. Those games all could have gone either way. BYU was comprehensively
whipped on by Utah and did not threaten, even with the late score to pull to
within 7. Bolstering your record with 5 cupcakes does not the better team make.
@LonestarRunnerNo, Utah was horrible team in 2012 we wouldn't
have beat TCU but we were good enough to beat your team. TCU was the better
team, by one win last year over Utah.FYI 6-7 Purdue and 6-7 Pitt
also lost by 3 at Notre Dame, is that an some sort of an accomplishment? Destroyed Texas? But you also lost to 2-4 Virginia, the same team whose
only other win is over a D2 team. In 2011 Utah lost 14-17 to 3-10
Colorado, in 2010 BYU got owned 16-31 by 4-8 Utah State.Utah won 4
MWC titles just like BYU... the difference we accomplished your Quest TWICE.Hey, look BYU is decent mid-major team but Cougar Nation needs to face
the fact that BYU can't compete with Utah and TCU. If they have struggled
in tougher leagues then BYU would be worse off.
@BeSmart - thank you for your level-headed, intelligent post. Utah
had a program defining win last week, just like byU had when they beat Miami at
home some decades ago. byU had a solid win last week. byU "fan" should
be happy with their own win rather than trying to cherry pick and spin any data
he/she can find to try to make themselves look better. What will he/she do next
week when Utah beats Arizona, byU beats Houston and Sagarin moves Utah ahead of
byU? What straws will be grasped at then?Move on to Houston and
show your allegiance to your team for that game. Congratulate your team for
their solid win and move on. Quit obsessing about Utah - you lost four straight
and you can't do anything about it for three more years. Just deal with
it.Go Utes!Onward and Upward!On to Arizona!!
Sparkley Briefs"Go back and watch the BYU-Utah game. At what
point did you think that BYU was the better team?"Total YardsBYU 443Utah 402Rushing YardsBYU 183Utah 129Passing YardsBYU 260Utah 2831st DownsBYU
24Utah 163rd Down ConversionsBYU 5-21Utah 1-14BYU was better in nearly every category except final score. With only
slightly better execution in the blue zone, BYU wins the game. Even so, the game
wasn't decided until the final play.With Taysom's improved
passing since the Utah game, the Cougars would beat the Utes in a rematch.
Uteology"Utah is 8-1 vs mid-major teams since joining the
PAC-12.Bronco is 15-14 vs BCS teams."What a silly
comparison.During the Bronco/Kyle era, Bronco's record versus
BCS teams is nearly identical to Kyle's.Bronco 15-14 (52%)Kyle 21-18 (54%)But, Bronco's record versus 10+ loss teams is
MUCH better.Bronco 12-0 (100%)Kyle 10-2 (83%)And,
Bronco's Top 25 Finishes dwarf Kyle's.AP Top 25Bronco 4Kyle 2Top 15Bronco 3Kyle 1
Still a long way to go.BYU 4-2 versus FBS teamsUtah 3-2 versus
FBS teams.BYU with a big win over Texas.Utah with a narrow win
over Stanford.It remains to be seen which teams will be ranked at
the end of the season, and how high.
Lonestar,I ask you - at what point in that game did BYU look like
they were not going to lose? Utah was never in trouble the whole game. Did you
think the Y was going to complete a desperation hail mary and save the day? As
for claiming that the Y would win a rematch, go ask Stanford how bad the Utes
got since dominating in Provo. Woulda, coulda, shoulda...spin, spin, spin!
"the Cougars would beat the Utes in a rematch"Lonestar:Don't you cougar fans get tired of saying that . . . again . . .
and again . . . year after year?
LonestarDon't kid yourself; Utah fans were still holding their
breath on the last play of the game knowing that BYU has ripped their hearts out
many times before.
UfanSalt Lake City, UTUteology"Utah is 8-1 vs
mid-major teams since joining the PAC-12.Bronco is 15-14 vs BCS
teams."What a silly comparison.During the
Bronco/Kyle era, Bronco's record versus BCS teams is nearly identical to
Kyle's.-----------When Utah and TCU were in the MWC
they had the highest two winning percentages against BCS teams. Kyle was 13-5
(72%) vs BCS teams before joining the PAC-12.That has changed for
both teams playing a week-in-week-out BCS schedule. It takes time to build BCS
talent and depth.Something I don't expect a BYU fan to
understand, so it's okay if you don't get it.
UteologyWhen BYU, Utah, and TCU were in the MWC,TCU won
4 conference championships, BYU won 2 conference championships, Utah won 1.TCU was ranked in the AP Top 25 six times, BYU was ranked four times,
Utah was ranked twice.Of course we wouldn't expect a Utah fan
to understand what winning conference championships and being ranked is all
about, since you've accomplished so few of either during the last 50 years.
I would give both Utah and BYU a B+I find it amusing that BYU fans
flock to these boards and try to justify there existence by continuely comparing
them self to Utah. Very seldom is it the other way around. I guess envy and
jealousy runs rampid for BYU fans. Too funny!
@LeviI wasn't holding my breath. I knew BYU can't beat
Utah; it's almost a mental thing at this point. No smiling from ear to ear
as Utah had yet beat the little guys from down south again. I was wondering what
would be the excuses thoug,h and how BYU fans would spin the loss?
Spokane Ute"I find it amusing that BYU fans flock to these
boards and try to justify there existence by continuely comparing them self to
Utah. Very seldom is it the other way around."LOL at the crimson
blinders you wear.
@Just the FAXOf course we wouldn't expect a Utah fan to
understand what winning conference championships and being ranked is all about,
since you've accomplished so few of either during the last 50 years.--------Oh we now what it takes, see 2004 and 2008. Apparently you guys don't. With 2 BCS bowls yet it was BYU fans
that "danced in the streets, they hugged perfect strangers, they lit off
fireworks, and in general, they celebrated and celebrated and celebrated" (a
UteologyAP Top 25 FinishesBYU 17Utah 5Call
us when U match BYU's current 17; at your current rate of 1 every 13 years,
that'll be about 150 years from now.WAC/MWC ChampionshipsBYU 23Utah 6Only six conference championships for Utah in
the last half century, pathetic.As Just the Fax said:"we wouldn't expect a Utah fan to understand what winning conference
championships and being ranked is all about"since it's
happened so seldom in the last half century.