Comments about ‘In our opinion: Fathers and mothers both matter’

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Published: Sunday, Oct. 13 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Hutterite
American Fork, UT

But, as the article pointed out, Canada has allowed gay marriage for 8 years...not long enough for such a marriage to produce a high school graduate from the ground up. So, other factors are at play here. Besides, so called traditional marriage hasn't much to brag about these days anyway, and ultimately I believe the obje3ction to gay marriage by the DN is religious, and therefore entirely subjective. The old 'think of the children' argument is a dodge.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

The previous editorial in this paper about the study contained two quotes from the study that highlighted problems.

One quote stated that current family situations of girls with gay parents was not relevant to graduation rates, just the mere fact of having gay parents was enough to produce the observed outcome. This flies in the face of all previous research into marriage and families which shows that things like divorce, single parenthood, and remarriage (current family situations) do have an impact on children.

The other quote pertained to how the subjects were identified - by their answer to a question asking if they are the child of a same-sex couple. No data on the length of the parents' relationship, divorces, remarriages, or any of the many other things we know have an impact on children.

The data looked at children 17 and older. Same-sex marriage has only been legal in Canada for eight years, same-sex common law relationships have only been recognized for 14 years. We know legality affects children of heterosexual relationships but the study's author wants to discount that for children of same-sex relationships?

Solid, honest research is needed - this study is not it.

THarrison
SLC, Utah

Not all marriages produce children so the "argument" that marriage is only to procreate is a fallacy. Any child who is raised by loving parents is one lucky kid regardless of the gender of the parents.

David Cary Hart
Miami Beach, FL

Gay couples are going to raise children irrespective of whether or not they can marry. That ship sailed a very long time ago. If children are the issue then marriage equality should be an imperative. Marriage provides kids with societal and economic security. For example, without a spouse, a defined benefit pension dies with the pensioner.

As for that Canadian study, it's author made the same claim last March before he did any research. He is also on the advisory board of National Organization for Marriage.

Post Windsor, Utah is sending its gay couples to other states to get married. Utah has to come to grips with the notion that religious opprobrium should not dictate civil law. Meanwhile, the full pool of the best talent is not available to Utah businesses. And it's not just gays. Others see marriage equality as an indication of tolerance and a welcoming of diversity.

The "mommy and daddy" argument is a form of cognitive dissonance that is offered as a substitute for any real consequences of same-sex marriage. There are none. Only benefits.

isrred
South Jordan, UT

The Bigotry of the Dnews shines through again. Why are you so intent on attacking LGBT families daily in your "news" paper?

In the state of Utah, I as a single person can adopt children legally and lawfully--but if I am in a loving, committed same-sex relationship then that somehow makes me an unfit parent for adoption purposes? Give me a break.

Really???
Kearns, UT

I am confused about how the researcher came up with his conclusions. If gay marriage has only been legal in Canada for eight years, I can't help but wonder about how many of the children in families headed by gay married couples are old enough to have graduated from high school. I also wonder if they are comparing all gay couples--married and unmarried--to all heterosexual couples or just heterosexual couples who are married. I need to see more information about the study to come to a better conclusion about its validity.

Rocket Science
Brigham City, UT

Despite what voters may support, legislatures may enact, or courts may decide, marriage has been, is, and always will be the union of a man and woman as husband and wife. A woman cannot be a husband and a man cannot be a wife and therefore same gender couples don't meet the criteria. Yes, both parents are important in the development of children as this study seems to confirm.

Where there has been death of a parent or divorce, we need to do the best we can to compensate for the lack in parenting. Fiends and neighbors need to help where possible but, "It makes no sense for society to fundamentally alter such an institution without understanding the consequences."

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

If one is into multiculturalism and diversity (really into it rather than giving it lip service), they may see that a lot of cultures have stories about the father and the mother bringing different strengths and capabilities in the raising of children. Yin and yang, opposite male and female element come together and create a better whole.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

I am glad this was presented as an opinion piece.

Because every other credible source disagrees with the outcome conclusion:

"In most ways, the accumulated research shows, children of same-sex parents are not markedly different from those of heterosexual parents. They show no increased incidence of psychiatric disorders, are just as popular at school and have just as many friends. While girls raised by lesbian mothers seem slightly more likely to have more sexual partners, and boys slightly more likely to have fewer, than those raised by heterosexual mothers, neither sex is more likely to suffer from gender confusion nor to identify themselves as gay."

'Coparent or Second-Parent Adoption by Same-Sex Parents' - POLICY STATEMENT - PEDIATRICS Vol. 109 No. 2 February 2002, pp. 339-340 - Pulished: 02/01/10

- AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS (AAP)

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'The overall goal in caring for youth who are or think they might be gay, lesbian, or bisexual is the same as for all youth: to promote normal adolescent development, social and emotional well-being, and physical health. If their environment is critical of their emerging sexual orientation, these adolescents may experience profound isolation and fear of discovery, which interferes with achieving developmental tasks of adolescence related to self-esteem, identity, and intimacy.'

- American Acadamy of Pediatrics
- PEDIATRICS Vol. 113 No. 6 June 2004, pp. 1827-1832

isrred
South Jordan, UT

I love that they keep using this line in all the stories: "Canada is an ideal place to study the effects of same-gender marriage on children, as it has embraced gay marriage for eight years "
Except that they used the 2006 census data, which means that at the time marriage had been legal for ONE year. And when you are looking at data of 18-23 year olds, the entirety of the sample grew up in homes THAT DIDN'T HAVE MARRIAGE.

The complete and utter lack of understanding of research and blatant disregard for basic common sense continues to baffle me. It shouldn't, but it does.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

"Canada is an ideal place to study the effects of same-gender marriage on children, as it has embraced gay marriage for eight years "

1) As pointed out by isrred: Except that they used the 2006 census data, which means that at the time marriage had been legal for ONE year. And when you are looking at data of 18-23 year olds, the entirety of the sample grew up in homes THAT DIDN'T HAVE MARRIAGE.

2) We HAVE examples of gay marriage in America for over ten years:

'TEN YEARS later, 85 Percent of Massachusetts voters say NO HARM from Marriage Equality' – Think Progress - 09/27/13

'But marriage equality has not turned society inside out, nor has the promised parade of horribles has not come to pass. Massachusetts now has the lowest divorce rate in the nation, same-sex families now enjoy full legal protections, and the Boston Red Sox have the best record in Major League Baseball.'

5 years after gay marriage was legal in MA they still had the lowest divorce rate in the country.

From the National Center For Vital Statistics

cns
St George, Utah

The study may be right -- MAY. The majority of the comments here point out the problems with the study that call into question the validity of the conclusion. Be that as it may, how about the children that do not have the opportunity to be raised by loving moms and dads ??
Wouldn't it be better for the child to be raised by a loving and stable same sex couple than to spend a life in foster care or some public institution ??

Rocket Science
Brigham City, UT

So many have missed the point of this opinion article which is that more study is needed.

"It makes no sense for society to fundamentally alter such an institution without understanding the consequences."

It is funny that the LGBT community will not just assert their opinion but will either discount research, call names, or shout down anyone who disagrees with their position.

Everyone who believes in the traditional family and that marriage is between a man and a woman is not a religious extremest, a bigot, a Nazi and does not hate LGBT.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

One thing we know about science research is that one study alone is not proof-positive. Only when there is an accumulation of well-designed and well-controlled studies do more reliable trends emerge.

The NIH published a fairly thorough examination of research titled "Nontraditional Families and Childhood Progress Through School" stating:

"In 45 empirical studies of outcomes of children of same-sex couples—including all studies listed in Tasker’s (2005) comprehensive survey that examined childhood outcomes, several more recent studies listed by Wald (2006), all four studies listed by Meezan and Rauch (2005) as the highest-quality studies in this field,1 and all the more recent studies that cite the earlier ones—none found statistically significant disadvantages for children raised by gay and lesbian parents compared with other children."

Questions:
How many of the families surveyed included adoption of "special needs" children? Did the study control for children adopted at an older age?

How does societal acceptance of nontraditional families affect children and their school experience? As someone noted, Canada legalized same-sex marriage mid-2005 and the researcher(s) used 2006 census data.

Many more questions remain.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

What hurts the kids the fact that two people raising them do not get benefits that other couples raising children get. As history shows, raising kids by same sex couples happens already. So we can also say banning gay marriage hurts the children.

Henry Drummond
San Jose, CA

This article reminds me of all the "research" from a generation ago that showed that children from interracial marriages were disadvantaged. Armed with such "facts," Utah and many other states passed laws against "miscegenation." Its funny how nobody runs editorials in support of those alarming "findings" anymore. I strongly suspect the concern this newspaper has to Gays raising children is motivated by a deeply held religious objection to such unions, not any research study. Why not just say so?

redshirt007
tranquility base, 00

Well I know if we had a theocracy so you could outlaw gay marriage forever, most of my posts would be censored just like they are here at the DN.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

I read through the posts several times to make sure that I saw what was printed and not what I thought was printed. What I saw printed are the excuses that people make for their choice to live a same-sex lifestyle. What I was printed is that they care nothing about the children except for the fact that society owes them the right to have children in their home even though their lifestyle makes it impossible for them to procreate. What I saw printed is that they are unwilling to consider any comment that questions them or their chosen lifestyle.

Thanks, Deseret News, for your effort to objectively show that the propaganda from those who believe in and practice the same-sex lifestyle is not going to improve society.

redshirt007
tranquility base, 00

In Utah past and present, if you have 7 wives and one husband that's still 7/8 same sex parenting isn't it?

Even more if you count the fact the husband has no time for 30 kids. Then what tragedies await the kids if the husband dies and they are raised by said 7 women? Must never have happened.

If you want a theocracy so you can ban gay marriage then have one, if you want a democracy then support the one you claim to love.

Republicans say, "let them eat cake and have your cake and eat it too." Brilliant. I'm seeing where all the non sequitur arguments come from and what their purpose is.

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