byu "fans" interjecting in this PAC-12 conversation. "Absolutely LOL
Absolutely LOL hilarious that utah "fans" would accept this homers
comparisons of utah with stanford while simultaneously mocking any comparisons
to BYU and notre dame. utah cannot be compared to stanford in any way, stanford
is so far superior to utah in academics, athletics, and reputation that even the
vaguest of comparisons between the 2 should mocked mercilessly. BYU on the
otherhand has far more in common with notre dame, and is far more comparable to
notre dame athletically, academically, and in reputation, than utah is to
stanford that there is no comparison once again.utah comparing
itself to stanford.....LOL!
If you win, then they will come.After 3 years, Utah's
recruiting has improved and I for one can see the results on the field. Yes,
we're not winning but we have been able to compete. It will take time to
compete for the PAC-12 title, Utah is on the right track.Go UTES!
Utah 30 Stanford 28
Chris BSome food for thought:Last 4 years Texas has had
average 3.8 star recruiting classes (better than Alabama)Utah 3.0 BYU 2.6If stars really mattered as much as you claim they do, why
was BYU able to DOMINATE Texas?If you argue that Texas doesn't
have the best coaches, how do you explain the Mack Brown-coached Texas team
beating the Pete Carrol-coached USC team to win the 2005 National
Championship?The point is, there are far more intangibles like team
leadership, team chemistry, grit, determination, etc., etc., that goes into
making a highly successful team than simply assembling a large group of
"star" high school players.btw, BYU and Utah will NEVER have
a single average 3.8-star recruiting class; EVER!
TroyTownIf stars are only marginally meaningful, then how many
"bcs" schools recruited a particular player is practically
meaningless.Still, some delusional fans will continue to beat their
chests about Utah's completely unprovable recruiting
"dominance".If Texas's advantage over BYU is
insignificant, then Utah's supposed "advantage" is practically
invisible, except in the eyes of the crimson glasses wearers.
According to Rivals, in the last four recruiting classes (2010 through 2013)Texas - 5 5-star, 58 4-star, 24 3-star, 1 2-starBYU - 0 5-star, 6
4-star, 35 3-star, 40 2-starPotentially, BYU faced a 2013 Texas team
that out-numbered BYU,5 to 0 in 5-star recruits58 to 6 in
4-star recruitsYet, BYU absolutely destroyed the Longhorns 40-21,
rolling up 550 rushing yards on Texas, more rushing yards than Texas had ever
given up in over 1,200 games.According to the stars theory, BYU
shouldn't have stood a chance against Texas this year, or in 2011, when BYU
only lost at Texas 16-17.Obviously, the stars theory is greatly
Truth Machine"BYU absolutely curb-stomped a team, this year,
that almost always has a Top 10, usually Top 5, recruiting class."Kinda makes all of the hoopla about recruiting rankings being the main
determinant of college football success meaningless, doesn't it.
Good article!For the record, Andrew Luck didn't play as a true
freshman. He redshirted.
How many 4- and 5-star recruits have already committed to USC, UCLA, Oregon,
Utah and BYU for the 2014 recruiting class?
If recruiting "stars" are the end-all-be-all of college football
success, then the Utes should just pack it in now and accept reality that the
Utes will NEVER win a PAC 12 championship because the Utes will NEVER out
recruit USC, UCLA and Oregon, EVER!In fact, the Utes will only
rarely finish in the upper half of the PAC 12 in recruiting.USC,
UCLA and Oregon get more 4- and 5-star recruits in a single recruiting class,
than the Utes get in a half dozen recruiting classes.When was the
last time the Utes signed a 5-star recruit?btw, BYU absolutely
curb-stomped a team, this year, that almost always has a Top 10, usually Top 5,
I mean no offense to anyone. I worked for a D-1 athletic department for years
and our 249th ranked recruiting class was often upsetting teams at least 100
spots above us.
I said in my statements "OTHER" BCS schools when referring to recruits.
I don't know why people are being so negative I think my comments are
showing that both schools can compete with any other team. I just want to make a
point that recruiting though it does matter is not the whole game. BYU, UTAH,
and Utah State have had great teams that were not very good recruiting classes.
I think Utah can beat Stanford this week, they are almost as talented, and they
have a great crowd and are very physical. I agree that it takes recruits to win
the National Title, but all I am talking about are Utah teams being able to beat
high quality opponents. I think both are very very far off from being National
Chris B,Nice spin but on an article about Stanford and Utah you brought
BYU into it with your comments!!! That is why we BYU fans call you out as a BYU
hater!!! Looks like you team is going to start out the season 0-4 in conference
for the third straight year!!! Ouch!!! But at least you will have that bright
shiny State of Utah Championship trophy and recruiting trophy to display in your
new football building right? Take care!!!Go Cougs!!!Go
@B C:Despite losing four straight rivalry games, the whole of royal
smurf blue nation are the ones in denial.YbU will have to get lucky
just to escape with a Holy War victory once every four or five years.Go Utes!
All star recruits want to go to us everytime because you see we are the bcs
conference of champions and that means we are more awsome than anyone else!
I know this is kind of sad to say but I can't believe it has gone this long
and not been said.100% of the U's recruits had offers from a
BCS school. 100%.BYU gets roughly 57% of commits that were
recruited by BCS schools. UofU gets 100%.
Besmart,I'm not attacking anyone's school at all.
I'm simply stating facts that recruiting services usually get it right, and
that even with a few misses here and there, the overall AVERAGE stars of a team
is very telling of the level of talent there. And better athletes usually lead
to better teams and more win.Again, its not a surprise that you
don't see national champions with 1-2 star nobodies making up most of their
roster. You think Nick Saban would be winning national titles with
byU's "talent"Nope!I'll take as
talented as a team as we can get, and right now that is average in the Pac 12
and definintely better than byU.And yes, having better players has a
lot to do with Utah beating byU the last 4 years.Not a coincidence
we've had higher stars those same 4 years.It's the truth.
Deal with it.
@BeSmart:"Playing the game does matter or else they would not
play it."You are correct. Now, please reiterate this basic
concept to all of the YbU "fans" who keep denying that they're 0-4
and counting...!5-0 at RES in 2016!Go Utes!
BeSmart, But isn't our contention that simply being in a BCS conference
doesn't mean anything(just look at Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Washignton State,
Duke)? You're as biased as Chris if you are trying to suggest that BYU
commits had a "good" offer in BCS Utah but don't say that Utah
commits had "good" offers in BYU. You only look as biased as him, and
that doesn't help the conversation.And as far as any team
beating any team, I agree. And so does Chris. So what's your point? Even
though that is true, wouldn't you rather have a Bronco coached team with
great talent over a Bronco coached team with average talent? You'd be
crazy to think talent doesn't help win games. Again, what's your
point? It seems you're trying to prove Chris wrong, but for once is he
right! Tell me something he has said that is wrong. I don't see anything.
He is wrong a lot, and lets point it out when he is. But here he isn't.
The only reason why I posted was because I have been seeing Chris B rant for two
days on recruiting. I read Utah articles because I want Utah to do well. So I
apologize I want all Utah schools to do well. I just think attacking another
school (or faith in other articles) should not be tolerated.Go all Utah
schools including my athletic program that pulls off an upset every few years.
"How Stanford built its program, and Utah can do the same"Concerning Utah, a resounding - NO!Despite their denials, the Utes
are destined to be the next Arizona - 30 years in the conference and still
looking for their first Rose Bowl.Eventually, the Utes will get
their "signature" win/upset. The odds are simply in their favor, like a
10-2 UNLV shutting out the Utes. One of the "big boys" will have an off
day and the Utes will be the lucky beneficiaries.As far as being a
perennial contender, not a chance. Utah will have to get lucky just to finish
with a winning conference record once every four or five years.
Hopefully the Utes can keep their heads held high after Saturday and finish out
the season strong (of course besides the Oregon game). I can see Utah beating
Arizona, USC, Colorado, and WSU to finish with a 7-5 record. ASU is a maybe,
only because of their loss to a ND team that I don't think is that great
and a blowout loss to Stanford. The last two years ASU has had our number so
I'm not expecting much. I'm really excited for this Utah team and hope
that Murphy heals quickly and well. I wish we would have used him more often
What does byu have to do with any of this?
P.S. I don't include BYU offers in the Utah stats because BYU is not in a
@TrevvorI am not saying that Utah's talent is worse than BYU's.
Utah will always have more. Recruiting is not all of college sports. That is why
you play the game.I want Utah to do well, but trying to say any team can
beat another any day. That is why the game is played.
Once again, a UTAH story turns into Chris B vs the UC trollers. Tiresome!!Nice article Dan. Great hire DN - keep up the good
work!!Go Utes!Onward and Upword!!
ok last 4 years recruiting class ranking Pac-12 2014-12th2013-10th2012-7th2011-6th So by your own philosophy Utah
will always be a doormat?BYU would be too I am just saying Coaching had
nothing to so with winning?Have you played sports?Were the classes
leading up to 2008 Utah top 5 classes?Why if Stanford can have some of the
worse Pac-12 classes be a top 5 team?USU beat Utah with a lesser quality
class (must be the world's largest miracle)Oregon State has
beat you with lower ranked classes (its the end of the world)Northwestern
who averages a very low class is top 25 and almost beat Ohio State (oh my
coaching may matter).Your philosophy although it has great points and the
majority of the time is right. Playing the game does matter or else they would
not play it.
Utah has already been building a stronger program.2014 will be their
breakout year in the Conference of Champions.That being said, they
can still win the majority of their remaining games. The future is looking very
bright for the U!Go Utes!
BeSMart, I'm a BYU fan but I'm siding with Chris and Ken on this one.
If we believe BYU is as good as Utah, you can't not include the BYU offers
in the Utah commits but include Utah offers in the BYU commits. If our whole
argument is that simply being in a BCS conference doesn't mean anything,
lets stay consistent with that. You show your bias is as bad as Chris's
when you don't count byu's offers to Utah commits but do count
Utah's offers to BYU commits. Don't be like Chris. Besides, it seems Chris's whole argument is that of average stars for a
team, which I certainly would agree is a better indicator of talent than number
of kids with BCS offers. And he's right, Utah's 2014 class is still
@ Chris B are you going to ignore discussing the fact 9 of BYU 14 commits
have BCS offers, While only 4 of Utahs 11 have gotten the same?
That is because No star recruits don't weigh on the average. Since 2011
Utah has lost to USU ASU OSU Arizon and UCLA which all have had worse classes
than the U. UCLA had the 45th ranked class two years ago. They number 11? Fresno
St. #84 Northwestern # 87 NIU # 78 Stanford # 22 all these teams have way out
performed their ranking. Underperformed Texas #3 USC #4 Auburn #7 Tennesee
#13 Cal #17.Dude rankings do matter but not that much. Utahs best team in
2008 was not a good "star class" Northwestern was on the doorstep with
Ohio State 70 spots difference. Fresno State is this years Utah # 84. It is
coaching and attitude. I have been involved in college athletics for over 10
years. Our best teams have never been the highest rated recruits. You can
recruit speed and talent but it only goes so far with coaching. That is why I
say Utah and BYU can compete with anyone anytime. That is why you play the game.
P.S. Utah beat Utah this year because of great coaching on both sides of the
ball. BYU coaching struggled against the utes.
@BeSmart,Your "stats" don't hold up to inspection. Jackson Barton - many BCS offersKyle Christiansen - byu offerKenyon Frison - many BCS offersAllan Havili - many BCS offersDonovan Isom - BCS offer(Miami)Raelon Singleton - BCS offer6
of 11 had BCS/byu offersAustin Chambers - 1 BCS offer KansasTyler Cook - BCS offersCedrick DAle - 1 BCS offer Texas TechKavika
Fonua - Utah offerTeancum Fuga - BCS offersKurtz - good pickup(if he
stays committed)Michael Shelton - 1 BCS offerSione Takitake - BCS
offersFred Warner - BCS offersByu 8/14 commits with BCS offers
57%It appears you're numbers are manipulated for both byu and
Utah. And guess who has the higher AVERAGE STAR recruiting class for 2014(since
its not finalized yet)? The University of Utah. You guys like exposure
don't you? Well, you just got exposed.
From rivals recruiting:2010 Utah 3.09 > 2.78 byU2011 2.95
Utah > 2.58 byU2012 3.04 > 2.87 byU2013 Utah 2.96 >
2.31(OUCH) byUSo in order from highest to lowest the last 8
recruiting classes for Utah and byu1. Utah2. Utah3.
Utah4. Utah5. byu6. byu7. byu8. byuThat's right, byu's best year in the last 4 is still worse than
Utah's worst recruiting classYes, I do love my Pac 12
membership. No 2.31 recruiting classes for usThink that has anything
to do with Utah going 4-0 against byU in that time?Yep!
BeSmart,byu has more total kids committed for 2014. Some schools get
kids to commit a lot sooner than others. You're not comparing apples to
apples. But if you look at their average ranking, AGAIN Utah is higher.Good try on the spin though.2014 Utah 2.882015 byu 2.5And since you're apparently confused about which is higher, 2.88
9 out of BYU 14 commits have offers from BCS schools. 4 out of Utahs 11 have
offers from other BCS schools. BYU class is also ranked higher. And Cody Hoffman
was a 2 star commit now a NFL bound receiver.
Commits this year. BYU 1- 4 star 5- 3 stars 8- 2 stars Utah 1-4 star 5- 3star 3-
no stars.BYU rated from ten to 15 spots higher. Recruits so help, but
Alabama is not always number 1, so they should only win 4 years after they are
number 1? Utah beat Alabama and was in the top 5 with a 2.5 star recruiting? I admit Utah will continue to get better recruits most years and has been
since the days of Mcbride, but they are ranked within 10 of each other.You
need to realize BYU only recruits people that will obey their honor code, that
probably eliminates 85% percent of recruits right off, so even when they were a
powerhouse team they didn't get great recruits. I respect BYU for sticking
to what they believe. 2.6 to 3.0 on the 5.0 scale is only 8 percent not a huge
difference between the two.
Last 4 years of Utah recruiting according to scout.com, the most respected and
widely used recruiting service. U Y2010-
2.64 stars 3.042011-2.9 stars 2.532012-2.69 stars
2.672013-2.54 stars 2.232014 is shaping up to be
about the average of the last 4 years.Utah has been consistently about
1/10 of a star better than the Y over the past 4 years.BYU also
ranks much higher in rival fans who demonstrate their insecurity and obsession
by mentioning BYU in comments even when BYU is not mentioned in the article.
Some reasons that the Stanford model will not work at Utah.1. Academic
standards are already much lower at the U and they still struggle to have less
than 1/3 of their recruits be ranked with 2 stars. They rarely get a 4 star
player to come to the U.2.The U has to take the best athletes they can get
and try to fit the teams style of play to their players. If they recruited to a
certain type of playing style, their average star ranking would be around
2.2.3.The U has no recent winning tradition to help lure better
players.4.In 2014 the U has offered 52 football scholarships. Stanford
offered 33, BYU offered 21. When a school has to offer that many scholarships to
fill their roster, it looks bad to the recruits. A recruit has to wonder if the
team want's them or if they are just shotgunning to get a body for an open
position on the roster. 5.The only thing the U has going for them is the
PAC, and most teams in the PAC have more of everything to offer.
Some food for thought:Last 4 years Alabama has had an average 3.7
star recruiting classesUtah 3.0 byU 2.6Yes, stars
matter. Any individual kid can obviously be a hit or miss, but OVERALL the
recruiting services get it right. And YES, its' better to have better
players. And before you byU fans go crazy, did I say higher stars
guarantees wins? Did I say a lower star team never wins?I'm
simply saying the best teams usually have the best coaches AND the best
athletes.I haven't seen a national championship team full of 2
star nobodies lately.And that's not a coincidence.
Whittingham has said since day 1 we'd have to improve our recruiting to be
a player in the Pac 12, and that HAS happened.Our MWC days we'd
be beaten by just about every Pac 12 team in recruiting.Look at the
last 4 years:2010 - 7th in Pac 122011 - 6th in Pac 122012 - 7th in Pac 122013 - 9th in Pac 12And these are vastly
better than what we were getting before our Pac 12 invite. Furthermore, our
worst year in recruiting in the last four years is BETTER than byU's BEST
year in recruiting in the last 4 years.Now some of these kids that
we've recruited are on missions, and others have redshirted and still have
several years left in the program.Point is, recruiting is HUGE, even
though our friends in Provo try to convince themselves they are building a
national title team with 1-2 star nobodies.Also, last 4 years Utah
has won the HEAD to HEAD recruiting with byU every year as well.Even
kids that used to be automatics for byU are picking Pac 12 Utah more often than
not these days.